it.
I completely agree with Fred. New features in point releases will cause many
more headaches than opening up a 2.8, which I still hope we don't do. I'd
rather see all that pent up energy focussed on doing whatever we can to help
people transition to Python 3.
-Barry
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e Python 2. Anybody on older (and
currently unmaintained) versions of Python 2 will not care about new features
so a Python 2.8 wouldn't help them anyway.
-Barry
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On Jun 09, 2010, at 09:13 AM, Bill Janssen wrote:
>Barry Warsaw wrote:
>
>> Note that Python 2.7 will be *maintained* for a very long time, which
>> should satisfy those folks who still require Python 2. Anybody on
>> older (and currently unmaintained) versions o
ed to change the language. Now we have
>to do what we can to ensure that the changed language has appropriate
>support.
This is exactly my point - I totally agree. Let's take all that pent up
energy and apply it to porting important libraries to Python
've tried and failed at least twice to do it in my spare time.
-Barry
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nd not just in the
stdlib). I think the PSF is best suited to coordinating and managing those
efforts, and through its tax-exempt status, collecting and distributing
donations specifically targeted to Python 3 work.
-Barry
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ou have in mind, Antoine?
I believe the plan was to migrate right after 2.7 final is released. I hope
that is still the plan. Since that is only 2 weeks away, are we ready?
-Barry
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ber 2010 release). We're currently concentrating on Python 2.7 as a
supported version because it'll be released by then, while 3.2 will still be
in beta.
If you want to help, or have complaints, kudos, suggestions, etc. for Python
support on Ubuntu, you can contact me off-list.
-Barry
signa
--
Running this you get:
b'\xa5\xcf\xa5\xed\xa1\xbc\xa5\xef\xa1\xbc\xa5\xeb\xa5\xc9\xa1\xaa' ハローワールド！
euc-jp
Would it be feasible? Dunno. Would it help ease the bytes/str confusion?
Dunno. But I think it would help make APIs easier to de
y OS X 10.6.4 box, only test_py3kwarn and test_urllib2_localnet fail.
-Barry
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o classifications, kind of like a Linked-in progress
meter...
-Barry
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ing an ebyte object? (ex: ``eb = ebytes(b, 'euc-jp')``).
If ebytes is a separate type, then definitely +1. If 'ebytes is bytes' then
I'd probably want to default the second argument to the magical "i-don't-know'
marker.
-Barry
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On Jun 22, 2010, at 03:08 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>Barry Warsaw writes:
>
> > Would it make sense to have "encoding-carrying" bytes and str
> > types?
>
>Why limit that to bytes and str? Why not have all objects carry their
>serializer/deserialize
t;sockets API (or whatever other place you get the bytes from).
Unless the default was the "I don't know" marker and you were able to set it
after you've done whatever kind of application-level calculation you needed to
do.
-Barry
sig
e, does argue for a separate ebytes type.
-Barry
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ould just return the
.string attribute.
>In short, +1. (I wish it were possible to go back and make bytes non-strings
>and have only this ebytes or bstr or whatever type have string methods, but
>I'm pretty sure that ship has already sailed.)
Maybe it's PEP time? No, I'
On Jun 21, 2010, at 04:16 PM, P.J. Eby wrote:
>At 04:04 PM 6/21/2010 -0400, Barry Warsaw wrote:
>>On Jun 21, 2010, at 01:24 PM, P.J. Eby wrote:
>>
>> >OTOH, one potential problem with having the encoding on the bytes object
>> >rather than the ebytes object i
uld know how
to accurately convert to a unicode (i.e. __str__()) because it would know the
encoding of the bytes. Obviously, it could convert to a pure bytes object.
Because it can be accurately stringified, it can have the most if not all of
the str API.
-Barry
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ing to handle this, though it's
probably pretty email package specific. Maybe there's a better, general, or
conventional approach lurking around somewhere.
http://wiki.python.org/moin/Email%20SIG
-Barry
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warning and
sleep is a little annoying).
* Add a ./configure option to enable this, which Debuntu's build would use.
The patch is available here:
http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/454512/
and my working branch is here:
https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~barry/python/sovers
Please
On Jun 24, 2010, at 10:58 AM, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
>2010/6/24 Barry Warsaw :
>> Please let me know what you think. I'm happy to just commit this to the
>> py3k branch if there are no objections . I don't think a new PEP is
>> in order, but an update to PEP 314
On Jun 24, 2010, at 01:00 PM, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
>2010/6/24 Barry Warsaw :
>> On Jun 24, 2010, at 10:58 AM, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
>>
>>>2010/6/24 Barry Warsaw :
>>>> Please let me know what you think. I'm happy to just commit this to the
>>
On Jun 24, 2010, at 02:28 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
>On Jun 24, 2010, at 01:00 PM, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
>
>>2010/6/24 Barry Warsaw :
>>> On Jun 24, 2010, at 10:58 AM, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
>>>
>>>>2010/6/24 Barry Warsaw :
>>>>> Ple
tat call, but I know that
>is asking too much.
I think you're right that with the $SOABI trick above, you wouldn't get the
name collisions Guido recalls, and you could get rid of module.so. OTOH, as I
am currently only targeting Linux,
k it would be confusing, and foo..so looks nice and is
consistent with foo..pyc. (Ref to updated patch coming...)
-Barry
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On Jun 24, 2010, at 11:05 AM, Daniel Stutzbach wrote:
>On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 10:50 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
>
>> The idea is to put the Python version number in the shared library file
>> name,
>> and extend .so lookup to find these extended file names. So for example
On Jun 24, 2010, at 08:50 PM, Éric Araujo wrote:
>Le 24/06/2010 17:50, Barry Warsaw (FLUFL) a écrit :
>> Other possible approaches:
>> * Extend the distutils API so that the .so file extension can be passed in,
>>instead of being essentially hardcoded to what Pytho
On Jun 24, 2010, at 11:50 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
>Please let me know what you think. I'm happy to just commit this to the py3k
>branch if there are no objections . I don't think a new PEP is in
>order, but an update to PEP 3147 might make sense.
Thanks for all the quick f
rk for you.
-Barry
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On Jun 25, 2010, at 12:18 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
>* Python 2.6.6 rc 1 on Monday 2010-08-02
>* Python 2.6.6 final on Monday 2010-08-16
I've also updated the Google calendar of Python releases:
http://www.google.com/calendar/ical/b6v58qvojllt0i6ql654r1vh00%40group.calendar.google
ension instance instead of passing in a string
>can most certainly land in distutils2.
Cool.
-Barry
[1] Well, I now realize you'll get an extra useless stat call, but I will fix
that.
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On Jun 25, 2010, at 10:33 PM, Martin v. Löwis wrote:
>Am 25.06.2010 18:18, schrieb Barry Warsaw:
>> Benjamin is still planning to release Python 2.7 final on 2010-07-03, so it's
>> time for me to work out the release schedule for Python 2.6.6 - likely the
>> last main
push the whole 2.6.6
>> thing later if that works better for you. OTOH, I can't go much earlier so
>> if
>> September is bad for you, then we'll stick to the above dates.
>
>I think we can strive for your original proposal. If it slips, we let it
>slip by a m
ler optimization bug.
Yes, but that's *much* more rare than wanting to step through some bit of C
code without going crazy.
-Barry
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On Jun 28, 2010, at 06:03 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>OPT already uses -O0 if --with-pydebug is used and the
>compiler supports -g. Since OPT gets added after CFLAGS, the override
>already happens...
So nobody's proposing to drop that? Good! Ignore my last message th
ries that are version-specific at that
>time? This is not the same as placing .py files that are
>version-agnostic into a version-agnostic location.
It's not a matter of "could", it's a matter of simplicity, and I think
versioned .so files are the simplest solution given a
On Jun 26, 2010, at 10:22 PM, Matthias Klose wrote:
>On 24.06.2010 22:46, Barry Warsaw wrote:
>> So, we could say that PEP 384 compliant extension modules would get written
>> without a version specifier. IOW, we'd treat foo.so as using the ABI. It
>> would then be u
ant lxml installed for one but not the other?
And even if for some reason you did, the only way to do that would be in a way
similar to handling the PEP 3147 pyc files.
-Barry
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test for sure I'd either need a Python 3 compatible virtualenv or backport my
patch to Python 2.6 and 2.7. But still, I'm not sure it would matter since
the same shared library import suffix is used in either case. I actually
think version-specific search paths would have a greater impa
nux OS vendors
>(maybe OS X) to manage their installs through their package software.
>I honestly do not expect human beings to be mucking around with these
>installs (and I suspect Barry doesn't either).
Spot on.
-Barry
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x you should consider when looking for a shared
library", which as you point out is already done on Windows.
-Barry
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sion to a
build-time configuration option, and doesn't really change the language, a PEP
shouldn't be necessary. But by the same token, I'm willing to write a new one
(and *not* touch PEP 3147) just so that we have a point of reference to record
the discussion and decision.
On Jun 25, 2010, at 12:35 AM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>Scott Dial wrote:
>> On 6/24/2010 5:09 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
>>>> What use case does this address?
>>>
>>>> If you want to make it so a system can install a package in just one
>>>> loca
again. We can't install _foo.so into /usr/share/pyshared because that's going
to be Python ABI-specific. If we can ABI-tag the .so and ensure it will get
imported, then we're back to the simpler layout where /usr/share/pyshared is
the destination for all installed Python packages.
-B
you could install this python-uber-dev package and get everything you needed
to build a sumo Python.
Hmm, /me goes to hack on his PPA.
-Barry
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es in email, I do not think
patches in a tracker are the best way to manage these. A dvcs's biggest
strength is in branches, so we should use those as much as possible.
-Barry
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On Jul 01, 2010, at 03:26 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:
>On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 15:07, Barry Warsaw wrote:
>> Other than that, while I sometimes review patches in email, I do not
>> think patches in a tracker are the best way to manage these. A
>> dvcs's biggest strength is
I know that the bzr
mirrors on Launchpad have been zero effort as well.
-Barry
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heir authors (e.g. Barry is
>assigned pygettext bugs) and I’m by no means a gettext expert.
It's been a while since I did much pygettext stuff. I think Martin's
basically taken it over in recent years.
-Barry
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On Jul 04, 2010, at 11:03 AM, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
>2010/7/4 Benjamin Peterson :
>> On behalf of the Python development team, I'm jocund to announce the
>> second release candidate of Python 2.7.
>
>Arg!!! This should, of course, be "final release"
API docs from this, a la:
http://www.blender.org/documentation/248PythonDoc/
-Barry
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ould generate
shared libs like _multiprocessing.foo.so.
I'd like to get consensus as to whether folks feel that a PEP is needed. My
own thought is that I'd rather not do a PEP specific to this change, but I
would update PEP 384 with the implications on .
On Jul 07, 2010, at 12:50 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:
>On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 11:46, Antoine Pitrou
>wrote:
>> On Wed, 7 Jul 2010 14:12:17 -0400
>> Barry Warsaw wrote:
>>> On Jul 07, 2010, at 07:30 PM, Georg Brandl wrote:
>>>
>>> >Overall, I thi
ght even remember that
the FLUFL was right after all.
:)
-Barry
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Send" prematurely. I wanted to add that I'd be okay with this
>change, be it in a new PEP or an old one.
Cool. I'll take Nick up on the suggestion to summarize the thread via a new
PEP.
-Barry
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On Jul 08, 2010, at 01:47 AM, Matthias Klose wrote:
>On 07.07.2010 20:40, Barry Warsaw wrote:
>> Getting back to this after the US holiday. Thanks for running these
>> numbers Scott. I've opened a bug in the Python tracker and attached
>> my latest patch:
>>
>
ible for any changes or patches they merge on
behalf of others. IME the overhead is pretty trivial, but then I'm quite
comfortable with gpg concepts and tools.
-Barry
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inal
discussion.
-Barry
PEP: 3149
Title: ABI version tagged .so files
Version: $Revision: 81577 $
Last-Modified: $Date: 2010-05-27 19:54:25 -0400 (Thu, 27 May 2010) $
Author: Barry Warsaw
Status: Draft
Type: Standards Track
Content-Type: text/x-rst
Created: 2010-07-09
Python-Version: 3.2
Post-Hist
On Jul 16, 2010, at 12:16 AM, Amaury Forgeot d'Arc wrote:
>2010/7/15 Barry Warsaw :
>> The first draft of PEP 3149 is ready for review.
>
>I like it!
Cool!
>I think it could mention the case where packages are not installed
>in the canonical directory, but placed else
3.2. This work would reduce the need to recompile
>extension modules separately on Windows for every version of Python --
>something especially pertinent when code has been orphaned but is
>still useful. The versioned .so files PEP being worked out by Barry
>Warsaw overlaps with this
nfigure option (--with-wide-unicode, 16 or 32)
> - platform information (necessary?)
> If this list changes for coming python versions, then it can be
> extended.
> Barry pointed out on irc chat that people might want to build
> experimental ABI incompatible ver
m name to the tag, but I'd probably define it as part of the
implementation field, e.g. foo.cpython-linux2-32m.so. Or maybe start with the
platform name, e.g. foo.linux2-cpython-32m. This isn't a strong preference
though.
Thoughts?
-Barry
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ease in length I
start to get more concerned. We could encode the platform and architecture,
but that gets into cryptic territory. OTOH, would you really co-install i386
and amd64 shared libraries on the same machine? (hello NFS ;).
-Barry
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On Jul 23, 2010, at 12:54 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
>On Jul 23, 2010, at 11:48 AM, Ronald Oussoren wrote:
>
>>> I'd be open to adding the
>>> platform name to the tag, but I'd probably define it as part of the
>>> implementation field, e.g. foo.cpython-
make
Python support much more robust.
-Barry
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On Jul 23, 2010, at 08:56 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 12:40 AM, Barry Warsaw
>wrote:
>> Python implementations *MAY* include additional flags in the file
>> name tag as appropriate. For example, on POSIX systems these flags
>> will also con
s himself on his own PEPs. I'd hope that we could
always find at least two people to wrangle any PEP, or we've got a bigger
problem to deal with!
Sounds like EuroPython was fun!
-Barry
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On Jul 26, 2010, at 10:50 AM, Ian Bicking wrote:
>On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 9:06 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
>
>> On Jul 24, 2010, at 07:08 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>> >privileges enough. So, my recommendation (which surely is a
>> >turn-around of my *own* attitude in
formation or configure argument at all. My usecase is
>fairly exotic and I do have a feasible workaround.
Cool. In that case, I won't add it.
-Barry
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htt
On Jul 24, 2010, at 11:59 PM, sch...@gmail.com wrote:
>Barry Warsaw writes:
>
>> On Jul 23, 2010, at 01:46 PM, sch...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>Doesn't anybody else think this is lost work for very little gain? My
>>>/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages direct
ompile time. For that, you're able to remove a huge amount of
complexity on Debian/Ubuntu by removing the need to manage multiple directory
trees and symlinks between files in those trees. The tools that manage them
(i.e. handle package installs and removals) also get
aintain, leading to increased robustness on the platform.
Cheers,
-Barry
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there are more. As always, I'd like to see simple APIs on both sides
that cover the common 80%. Both Tarek's and Michael's posts and proto-peps
are great starts. You guys should definitely write up a plugin PEP!
-Barry
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lp:python/2.7
Series details are here:
https://launchpad.net/python/2.7
Branch details are here:
https://code.launchpad.net/~python-dev/python/2.7
Enjoy,
-Barry
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if this was intentional or not.
It looks like Benjamin's change in r67171 was the relevant diff.
Thoughts? Either way I will file a bug. IOW, if this change should *not*
have been made, I think it should be reverted for Python 2.7.1 and I can patch
.org/reference/lexical_analysis.html#identifiers
-Barry
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On Jul 31, 2010, at 08:32 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 07:44:42 am Guido van Rossum wrote:
>> On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 1:53 PM, Barry Warsaw
>wrote:
>> > On Jul 30, 2010, at 01:42 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>> >>Well it is a reserved na
d in 2.7" to __debug__ stating that assignments to __debug__ as
an attribute became illegal.
From this though, I think it's clear that Benjamin's change was intentional.
I will also add this to the NEWS and What's New files for 2.7.
-Barry
re any other features you would like to see? One feature
>of pdb++ that is general enough and has no dependencies would be watch
>expressions...
...but watch expressions - and the equivalent of gdb's 'display' command -
would be very cool. `interact` would also be useful and p
ority&@filter=priority,status&@pagesize=50&@startwith=0&priority=1&status=1&@dispname=Showstoppers
Feel free to ping me on irc (freenode @ #python-dev) or follow up here if you
have any input on these.
I'll send the usually notes out to the committers list when I'm re
On Aug 02, 2010, at 12:09 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 08:10:58 +0200
>Georg Brandl wrote:
>> Thanks, Benjamin! I'd also like to thank Martin and Ronald for the
>> prompt binaries, and the folks of #python-dev for support. RMing
>> was a pleasant experience so far.
>
>Are you
row things, but let's see how it goes.
-Barry
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r should I just assume someone else will notice and do something?
We've been talking about it on #python-dev and I've sent a message off to our
internal emergency list. It's holding up the 2.6.6rc1 release. (No, I do not
have access, nor can I answer your questions.)
-Barry
On Aug 01, 2010, at 09:56 PM, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
>2010/7/30 Barry Warsaw :
>>
>> It looks like Benjamin's change in r67171 was the relevant diff.
>
>The reason behind this was to make __debug__ assignment consistent
>with that of other reserved names. For e
On Aug 02, 2010, at 06:57 PM, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
>You feel locked out by the current tracker?
I do, but that's only because bugs.python.org is currently pinin' for the
fjords. ;)
-Barry
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gain, same time tomorrow: 2200 UTC. Come join us on #python-dev if
you want to watch the circus. :)
-Barry
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-Barry
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Hi Giampaolo,
Now that we're in quasi-freeze for 2.6.6 final, this is the kind of change I'd
like to review before backporting. In this case, I'll let it through, but
please check with me first next time.
And thanks for your work!
-Barry
On Aug 04, 2010, at 10:58 AM, giampao
essfully navigated the twisty maze, would you be able to
write something up on the wiki to describe the steps you've taken?
-Barry
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le, so this may or may not be workable, and changing
any of this will take valuable volunteer time. It's also unsexy work.
-Barry
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will take valuable volunteer time. It's also unsexy work.
>
>How hard is it to look at a web page?
That's not the right question :)
The real questions are: how hard is it to remember how to find the appropriate
web page, how hard is it to know which buildbots are *actually* stable enoug
7, 83666, 528, 403
>ARMv4 Debian 3.x*** , 83681, 649, 636 # hung for 30 min
>ARMv7Thumb Ubuntu 3.x 83025, 82997, 985, 985 # failed slave lost
>[etc.]
>
>http://code.google.com/p/bbreport/
>hg clone https://bbreport.googlecode.com/hg/ bbreport
It would be kind o
release, I
certainly consult both the stable and unstable buildbots, but I always run the
full test suite on local platforms I have access too, which covers Linux, OS
X, and hopefully soon Windows. #python-dev is helpful here for providing some
additional sanity checks.
-Barry
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support
security fixes in Python 2.6 for quite some time.
My thanks go out to everyone who has helped contribute fixes great and small,
and much testing and bug tracker gardening for Python 2.6.6. The excellent
folks on #python-dev are true Pythonic heros too.
Enjoy,
-Barry
(on behalf of the
else works under the same restrictions
>of time that I do ... and I appreciate all the hard work the release managers
>continue to put in.
We know you love us Steve. :)
-Barry
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On Aug 04, 2010, at 06:48 PM, Jasper St. Pierre wrote:
>hmm... BARRY_AS_BDFL and barry_as_FLUFL
[...]
>nothing noticable happened. I googled the latter, and found that it's
>an April Fools (of 2009!) checkin that was never reverted.
Wait. It's a joke?!
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ed to mirror /usr/local, then wouldn't a logical place for per-user
configuration files be ~/.local/etc/whatever.cfg?
-Barry
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ernoon EST.
I'll be hanging out on #python-dev as much as possible over the weekend in
case anything crops up.
Thanks to everybody who has helped get 2.6.6 to such an awesome state.
-Barry
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Python-De
n 2.6.5". We've decided not to
apply any behavior changing patches to Python 2.6 so you'll just have to live
with the devil you know here, or upgrade to Python 2.7.
Please let me know before Monday if you notice any problems.
Again, thanks Eric!
-Barry
>
>
>Modified:
&
about 6 hours or so.
Thanks,
-Barry
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