de be merged before the
> beta1?
>
> Victor
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ckslash, redundant [back]slashes, and
redundant '.' components are handled). So if you are in the unusual
circumstances where you have to use case-sensitive paths on Windows, you
can still use WindowsPath.
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below the opcodes - just like http chunked transfer is "in" http,
> but below the content encoding).
>
> Regards,
> Martin
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liant" stamp of
approval -- using a different set of kernel interfaces that don't enforce
case insensitive matching.)
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ions of many
> people (perhaps someone should add them to Misc/ACKS?).
>
> Regards
>
> Antoine.
>
>
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thlib won't replace os.path immediately (the current status is
"provisional", which means that the API may still be tweaked after 3.4 is
released), but in the long term I expect os.path to die a quiet death (as
well as the host of 3rd party path modules that preceded pathlib).
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Correct.
On Nov 21, 2013 10:15 AM, "Daniel Holth" wrote:
> +1 on unsorted repr(). It makes it obvious that the collection is not
> sorted.
>
> On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Christian Heimes
> wrote:
> > Am 21.11.2013 18:57, schrieb Tim Peters:
> >> Best to change the failing tests. For examp
the
plan.
The ship has likewise sailed for adding scandir() (whether to os or
pathlib). By all means experiment and get it ready for consideration for
3.5, but I don't want to add it to 3.4.
In general I think there are some tough choices regarding stat caching. You
already bro
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ople, so everybody is scratching
> own itches. I wish that usability and UX was given at
> least some coverage in Python development regulations.
> --
> anatoly t.
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s not supported.
> >
> >
> > The default settings for all stdlib modules will still be verify_mode =
> > CERT_NONE and check_hostname = False for maximum backward compatibility.
> > Python 3.4 comes with a new function ssl.create_default_context() that
> > returns a new context with best practice settings and loaded root CA
> > certs. The settings are TLS 1.0, no weak and insecure ciphers (no MD5,
> > no RC4), no compression (CRIME attack), CERT_REQUIRED and check_hostname
> > = True (for client side only).
> >
> > http://bugs.python.org/issue19509 has a working patch for ftplib.
> >
> > Comments?
>
> If Larry is OK with it as RM (and it sounds like he is), +1 from me as
> well.
>
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kage/dev-lang/python
> [2]: https://lwn.net/Articles/542629/
> [3]: http://bugs.python.org/issue16594
>
> --
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> Reuben Garrett
>
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I would be rather worried about some accidental Trojen running that way.
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x27;]))
> ...
>
> I think that it would make ABC definitions a lot more compact for many
> use cases, but I welcome any criticisms against this idea.
>
> Allen Li
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>
On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Allen Li wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 05, 2013 at 10:24:11AM -0800, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>> How would you get the docstrings in? It seems cramming that much on a
>> single line doesn't help readability (even though I agree there is a
>>
On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 6:08 PM, Allen Li wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 05, 2013 at 01:33:00PM -0800, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>> > The only two alternatives are doing nothing/pass/return
>> > None or having actual code in the method.
>> >
>> > The former is onl
On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 6:31 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
>> On Thu, Dec 05, 2013 at 01:33:00PM -0800, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>> Actually if you want to support multiple inheritance of your ABC, your
>>> abstract methods *must* be no-ops (or have some kind of default
>>
"""Docstring for instance attribute spam."""
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Spam.
On Dec 7, 2013 7:26 PM, "TaeWong" wrote:
> Please add the Gentoo packagers of external modules to Misc/ACKS:
>
> Rob Cakebread
> Corentin Chary
> Ian Delaney
> Sebastien Fabbro
> Mike Gilbert
> Carsten Lohrke
> Jan Matejka
> Rafael Martins
> Patrick McLean
> Tiziano Müller
> Dirkjan Ochtman
m
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command-line flag to skip the default
SIGINT handler setup.
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wjpmD
> G6oAoMIjtrKkGTlFj0b9Tfdj5BCu1rYS
> =GxuS
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
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worth the
> risk of breaking the code of people that are relying on what's
> possible rather than what the docs say.
>
> Cheers,
> Nick.
>
>
> --
> Nick Coghlan | ncogh...@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia
> _______
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lts. If anyone comes up with a resonable query that
> gives bad results, we can do some lightweight SEO on it by adding a few
> links here and there.
>
> Eli
>
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hem above.]
>
> At any rate, the attempts to connect to the network seem like
> undesirable behavior to this man. If pip is necessary, then some
> Window users may well end up without it -- and then not know why
> something later doesn't work.
>
> Got to go now, but wil
23
I added a hopefully useful suggestion there; ISTM the situation can
easily be improved by changing the wording of the magic comments.
I'm not yet convinced that the generated code is better off in
separate files nor why that is considered such a big deal. And how
would yo
On 1/6/2014 3:16 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
I thought I mentioned it on this list last year when I first wrote it,
but some messages I've seen recently suggest many folks haven't seen it
before.
And even more will see it if you provide a link.
Please.
Emile
___
On 01/12/2014 09:26 AM, Paul Moore wrote:
Can you give an example of code that is *nearly* acceptable to you,
which works in Python 2 and 3 today, and explain what improvements you
would like to see to it in order to use it instead of waiting for a
core change?
I'm not a developer, but I'm try
On 01/12/2014 11:30 AM, Emile van Sebille wrote:
On 01/12/2014 09:26 AM, Paul Moore wrote:
Can you give an example of code that is *nearly* acceptable to you,
which works in Python 2 and 3 today, and explain what improvements you
would like to see to it in order to use it instead of waiting for
at all,
but at least it is consistent -- it always produces text in ASCII
encoding (by default). The same applies to the http module, which IIUC
adheres to the standard by treating headers as Latin-1.
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On Sun, Jan 12, 2014 at 4:28 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
> On 01/12/2014 03:55 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>
>> There's a lot of discussion about PEP 460 and I haven't read it all.
>> Maybe you all have already reached the same conclusion that I have.
>
>
>
7;t forget, we are talking about Python 3.5; we have not even hit Python
> 3.4rc1 yet so this level of arguing seems a bit premature and going nowhere.
>
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On Sun, Jan 12, 2014 at 5:27 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
> On 01/12/2014 04:47 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>> %s seems the trickiest: I think with a bytes argument it should just
>> insert those bytes (and the padding modifiers should work too), and
>> for other types it should
one. An operation should either work
for no type, one type, a few specific types, or all types. Something
that works for all but one type will *appear* to work for all types to
a casually experimenting user and may pass extensive unittests,
leaving a bomb that can detonate when you least expect it.
low up with an UnicodeEncodeError.
You don't say what outcome you want, but if you wanted b'%s' % 'some
text' to return b'some text' while b'%s' % '\u1234' should blow up,
you're back at the Python 2 approach and that is the last thing I
want
;
> b"'some text'"
>
> So an encoding should definitely be specified.
Yes, but the encoding is no business of %s or %. As far as the
formatting operation cares, if the argument is bytes they will be
copied literally, and if the argument i
Those still arguing on this thread might want to look at the thread
"PEP 460 reboot".
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why
couldn't you also refrain from b += b'%s' % 42?
I'll suppress the urge to quote verbatim from my first message in this
thread (about the motivation for bytes) but I'll just recommend you
re-read it.
(It's too late here to write more, but it looks like we are in
think about
encoding to bytes.
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On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 9:37 AM, Augie Fackler wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 12:34 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 8:51 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>> > On 13 January 2014 23:57, Augie Fackler wrote:
>> >> 1) What do we need in
460 would help -- Augie mentioned %d, which it excludes.
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le (C) also seems adding too
much complexity, and adds to porting efforts. I may have felt
differently in the past, but ATM I feel that if newer versions of
Python 3 make porting of Python 2 code easier, through minor
compromises, that's a *good* thing. (Example: adding u"
On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 11:57 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On Jan 13, 2014, at 02:13 PM, Donald Stufft wrote:
>>On Jan 13, 2014, at 1:58 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>> I hear the objections against b'%s' % 'x' returning b"'x'" lo
ften shared between packages that don't know about
each other).
Anyway, the % or .format() issue seems completely orthogonal to the
issues that get people riled up (which are mostly about whether using
either implies some kind of ASCII compatibility).
--
plate and a
formatting operation.
"""
I would buy this if a binary format string could contain embedded text
(like 'Hello' in my example above), but then the argument about
avoiding ASCII bias seems to fall apart so I am at a loss about what
Nick actually wants, and even a
don't want to use {:s}. The
docs at
http://docs.python.org/3/library/stdtypes.html#printf-style-string-formatting
don't show %b so it could still be used there, but it would be nicer
to be consistent.
--
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__
On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 1:40 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Jan 2014 13:32:28 -0800
> Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>
>> But formatb() feels absurd to me. PEP 460 has neither a precise
>> specification or any actual examples, so I can't tell whether the
>>
On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 1:29 PM, Glenn Linderman wrote:
> On 1/13/2014 12:09 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
> Yeah, the %s behavior with a string argument was a messy attempt at
> compromise. I was hoping to mimick a common use of %s in Python 2,
> where it can be used with either
e.g. verb missing :-), and I'm not clear
on what you are (or were) actually proposing. When exactly would
bytes.format() need .encode('ascii')?
I would be happy to wait a few hours or days for you to to write it up
clearly, rather than responding in a hurry.
--
--Guido van Rossum (py
On 1/13/2014 4:06 PM, Greg Ewing wrote:
of text methods -- together with a text-like literal
syntax and default repr(), even though at least half
the time they're completely inappropriate!
Better said as 'half the time they're coincidentally helpful!'
My $.01 :)
Emile
__
On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 6:25 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 1/13/2014 4:32 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
>> I will doggedly keep posting to this thread rather than creating more
>> threads.
>
> Please permit to to doggedly keep pointing you toward the possible solution
> I
Sorry to butt in, but can you post a link to the asciistr code? Google
has too many hits for other things to be useful to find it, it seems.
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https
the
problem is similar to creating the perfect proxy type).
> PEP 460 should actually make asciistr easier in the long run, as I now
> expect we'll run into some "interesting" issues getting formatting to
> produce anything other than text (contrary to what I said els
On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 12:20 AM, Greg Ewing
wrote:
> Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>
>> I've now looked at asciistr. (Thanks Glenn and Ethan for the link.)
>>
>> Now that I (hopefully) understand it, I'm worried that a text
>> processing algorithm tha
On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 7:59 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> Here's an example of what I mean:
I sent that off without proofreading, and I also got one detail about
asciistr() wrong. Here are some corrections.
> def spam(a):
> r = asciistr('(')
> if a: r += a.
epoints_above_127(self):
self.assertRaises(ValueError, asciistr, 'Schrödinger')
looks reasonable enough when you assume asciistr() is always used with
a literal as argument -- but I suspect that plenty of people would
misunderstand its purpose and write asciistr(s) as a "clever" way to
turn a string into something that's compatible with both bytes and
strings... :-(
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ve to the argument in favor of loud and
early failure. It's just that I can see both sides of the coin, and
I'm still deciding which argument is more important.
(*) Gamer slang for a weapon made less dangerous. :-)
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
hat this support simply won't be used when
>> when it does not make sense. For example, bytes literals
>> *could* be used to construct a sound sample, but the
>> literals will be far easier to read when they are used
>> to represent (encode
On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 12:04 PM, Eric V. Smith wrote:
> On 01/14/2014 01:52 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
>> But the way to arrive at this behavior without duplicating a whole lot
>> of code seems to be to call the existing text-based __format__ API and
>> convert th
On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 12:13 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
> On 01/14/2014 10:52 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>
>> Which reminds me. Quite a few people have spoken out in favor of loud
>> failures rather than silent "wrong" output. But I think that in the
>>
lect your ideas together, I'll add them to 461 as questions or
> discussions or however is appropriate (assuming you're willing to go that
> route).
>
> --
> ~Ethan~
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r more error prone
> than the core Python 3 text model.
Hm. It sounds like the kind of power tool that only candidates for the
Darwin award would use.
The more I hear you defend it, the less I think it's a good idea for
*anything*. And limiting it to PyPy doesn't make it less danger
ot; information off the WWW?
>
>
>
> Cheers, Rob Ward
>
> PS In my state of eternal optimism I have attached the whole file :-)
>
> PPS I have done some OOP in the past but not keen to jump in at the moment.
>
>
> ______
I am exhausted from all these discussions. I just recommend not
touching those docs.
On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 8:08 PM, Jim Jewett wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 3:06 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>> Personally I wouldn't add any words suggesting or referring to the
>> option
d we introduce only __bformat__ and have the % operator call it?
> That would only require implementing one new special method instead
> of two.
>
> Neil
>
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a special value, let's call it
> sys.NULL, whose specific semantics are "turns into NULL when passed into
> builtins". This would solve the problem but it's really, really awful.
>
> The only other option I can see: don't convert SHA1_new() to use Argument
>
On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 9:55 PM, Larry Hastings wrote:
>
> On 01/15/2014 09:37 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
> Well, I think these are mostly artifacts from old times, and usually passing
> None *should* be the same as omitting the argument. But check each case!
>
>
&g
__name__', '__doc__']
>>
>
> Why did you remove the docstring?
>
> Regards
>
> Antoine.
>
>
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On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 1:42 AM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 1/16/2014 3:31 AM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote:
>>
>> 16.01.14 08:05, Guido van Rossum написав(ла):
>>>
>>> In this specific case it's clear to me that the special-casing of
>>> negative count is
#x27;m not sure how AC should deal with (b), but I still hope that true
examples are rare enough that we can keep hand-coding them.
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comment instead of a docstring. :-)
I'll do this now.
On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 8:14 AM, Christian Heimes wrote:
> On 16.01.2014 16:57, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>> Because somehow you can't have a slot named __doc__ *and* a docstring
>> in the class. Try it. (I tried to work a
nlikely scenario. Why would you implement clinic in C?
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d you mean. Among my questions are "by data, do you mean interpolated
> objects or interpolated bytes?" and "what restriction on 'data' do you
> intend by 'ASCII compatible'?".
Can you move the meta-discussion off-list?
;
> /arry
>
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If you're interested, please see us on the python-tulip mailing list at
Google Groups.
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>
> Stefan
>
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--
--Guid
ility with 3.3. Can
you remind us of what the corner-case was? How bad would it be if we
decided to just live with it or if we added a new flag bit (only recognized
by 3.4) to disambiguate corner-cases?
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ct info,
we just fix them when we notice the issue, we don't declare the language
broken.
On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 5:29 PM, Larry Hastings wrote:
>
>
> On 02/03/2014 09:46 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
> Can you summarize why neither of the two schemes you tried so far w
umentation.
If you would like to contribute, send patches on .rst files. The
source of the documentation is in the Doc/library/ directory of
CPython repository:
http://hg.python.org/cpython/
Files asyncio-*.rst:
http://hg.python.org/cpython/file/default/Doc/library
Victor
--
--Guido van
On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 3:47 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Feb 2014 15:32:23 -0800
> Guido van Rossum wrote:
> > We could really use more help reviewing and finishing asyncio's docs!
>
> Well, it's probably difficult for people to help when they are not
>
On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Russell E. Owen wrote:
> In article
> ,
> Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
> > We could really use more help reviewing and finishing asyncio's docs!
> ...
> > http://docs.python.org/dev/library/asyncio.html
>
> I think the docum
ython/Lib/ensurepip/__init__.py", line 74, in
bootstrap
_require_ssl_for_pip()
File "/Users/guido/cpython/Lib/ensurepip/__init__.py", line 23, in
_require_ssl_for_pip
raise RuntimeError(_MISSING_SSL_MESSAGE)
RuntimeError: pip 1.5.2 requires SSL/TLS
make: *** [install] Erro
Thanks, I discovered ENSUREPIP=no right after posting, but agreed it should
print an intelligible error message instead of giving a traceback.
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Donald Stufft wrote:
> On Feb 11, 2014, at 12:30 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
> I don't happen t
). This is a common issue with
Mavericks and open-source projects (not just Python); Ned will add
something to the README.
--Guido
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 2:22 PM, Ned Deily wrote:
> In article
> ,
> Guido van Rossum wrote:
> > I don't happen to have OpenSSL configured on my O
super().__init__(callback, args)
>>
>
> Apologies up front if these are stupid questions, but:
>
> Why __slots__? Are we going to have so many of these things that memory
> is an issue
>
There's one of these created for every callback -- which includes every
time
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b 18, 2014 at 10:01 AM, Ethan Furman wrote:
> On 02/18/2014 09:47 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm confused. Hasn't this all been decided by the PEP long ago?
>>
>
> The PEP only mentions pickling briefly, as in "the normal rules apply".
>
INPUT 0
26: KBININT12
28: \x85 TUPLE1
29: qBINPUT 1
31: RREDUCE
32: qBINPUT 2
34: .STOP
highest protocol among opcodes = 2
>>>
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 10:16 AM, Ethan Furman wrote:
> On 02/18/2014 10:05 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
&g
Well, I'm against that.
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 11:26 AM, Ethan Furman wrote:
> On 02/18/2014 11:20 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm confused. AFAICT enums are pickled by value too. What am I missing?
>> Are we confused about terminology or about
>&g
Well, I still think it should be done by value.
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote:
> 18.02.14 21:20, Guido van Rossum написав(ла):
>
> I'm confused. AFAICT enums are pickled by value too. What am I missing?
>> Are we confused about terminology or
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--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~
ht? Once Larry says it's baked,
everyone *will* have a chance to test it. What value is a preview of the
preview really going to add? Give Larry some trust and freedom to do things
in the way that makes him comfortable.
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
_
gt; is published you should use "merge".
And that's exactly why Larry is holding off pushing.
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On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 8:16 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On Feb 19, 2014, at 07:50 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
> >That's why it's RC2 and not 3.4final, right? Once Larry says it's baked,
> >everyone *will* have a chance to test it. What value is a preview of t
s, and hoping for the best.
>
> I really am hoping it'll settle down soon, though,
>
I am actively clamping down on these now. Yuri's and Victor's youthful
enthusiasm is adorable. :-)
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
_
+0.5
> But I'm aware it requires reserving "then" as a keyword, which might
> need a prior SyntaxWarning.
>
I'm put off by the ':' syntax myself (it looks to me as if someone forgot a
newline somewhere) but 'then' feels even weirder (it's been ha
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