[Python-Dev] I use both IDLE and my console

2010-07-11 Thread Van
Hello all, Buggy or not it's quite handy and as I said I use both when programming in python. To discontinue it is just not a good idea. Hausburn___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubs

Re: [Python-Dev] Python install layout and the PATH on win32

2012-03-16 Thread Lindberg, Van
Carl - > Changing the directory name is in fact a new and different (and much > more invasive) special case, because distutils et al install scripts > there, and that directory name is part of the distutils install scheme. > Installers don't care where the Python binary is located, so moving it >

Re: [Python-Dev] Python install layout and the PATH on win32

2012-03-16 Thread Lindberg, Van
On 3/16/2012 3:38 AM, Paul Moore wrote: > On 16 March 2012 00:12, Carl Meyer wrote: >> Changing the directory name is in fact a new and different (and much >> more invasive) special case, because distutils et al install scripts >> there, and that directory name is part of the distutils install sch

Re: [Python-Dev] Python install layout and the PATH on win32

2012-03-16 Thread Lindberg, Van
On 3/16/2012 10:53 AM, Paul Moore wrote: > The only way I can read this to make sense is that you somehow > consider the Python installation as part of your development > environment (you mentioned source control earlier in the thread - > surely you don't manage your Python installation in source c

Re: [Python-Dev] Python install layout and the PATH on win32

2012-03-16 Thread Lindberg, Van
On 3/16/2012 11:57 AM, Glenn Linderman wrote: > So I think I'm finally beginning to see the underlying reason why Van is > desiring this consistency: It is not that he wants to check in his > installation of Python, but that he wants to check in his installation > of his pac

Re: [Python-Dev] Python install layout and the PATH on win32

2012-03-20 Thread Lindberg, Van
On 3/20/2012 5:48 AM, Mark Hammond wrote: > While I'm still unclear on the actual benefits of this, Martin's > approach strikes a reasonable compromise so I withdraw my objections. Ok. I was out of town and so could not respond to most of the latest discussion. A question for you Mark, Paul, (a

Re: [Python-Dev] Python install layout and the PATH on win32

2012-03-20 Thread Lindberg, Van
On 3/20/2012 1:19 PM, Paul Moore wrote: > Somewhat. I don't really object to #1, but mildly object to #2. I also > note that the proposals round the Lib directory seem to have > disappeared. I assume those have been dropped - they were the ones I > did object to. They are of secondary importance t

Re: [Python-Dev] Python install layout and the PATH on win32

2012-03-20 Thread Lindberg, Van
On 3/20/2012 3:31 PM, Paul Moore wrote: > Serious question: Given a brand new PC, if you were installing Python > 2.7, 3.2, 3.3a1, jython, and pypy, what would you do (beyond simply > running 5 installers) to get your environment set up the way you want? I install each python in its own directory:

Re: [Python-Dev] Python install layout and the PATH on win32

2012-03-21 Thread Lindberg, Van
cussion, Guido. > > As a footnote, distutils is already broken in 3.3. Now we give users or > system administrators the possibility to edit the install schemes at > will in sysconfig.cfg, but distutils hard-codes the old scheme. I tend > to think it should be fixed, to make the distu

[Python-Dev] Cannot find the main Python library during installing some app.

2012-06-21 Thread Van Gao
hi, I got the error below during installing the libmobiledevice: checking consistency of all components of *python development environment... no* configure: error: Could not link test program to Python. Maybe the main Python library has been installed in some non-standard library path. If so,

Re: [Python-Dev] Network Security Backport Status

2014-07-01 Thread Guido van Rossum
gt; > Antoine. > > > > ___ > Python-Dev mailing list > Python-Dev@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/ > guido%40python.org > -- --Guido van

Re: [Python-Dev] buildbot.python.org down again?

2014-07-07 Thread Guido van Rossum
email) to appropriate persons. > > -- > Terry Jan Reedy > > > ___ > Python-Dev mailing list > Python-Dev@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/op

Re: [Python-Dev] buildbot.python.org down again?

2014-07-07 Thread Guido van Rossum
It's a reference to Neil Stephenson's Anathem. On Jul 7, 2014 8:55 AM, "Benjamin Peterson" wrote: > On Mon, Jul 7, 2014, at 08:44, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > It would still be nice to know who "the appropriate persons" are. Too > > much > > of

Re: [Python-Dev] buildbot.python.org down again?

2014-07-08 Thread Guido van Rossum
dy has ever heard of. On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 12:33 AM, Donald Stufft wrote: > > On Jul 8, 2014, at 12:58 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > > On 7 Jul 2014 10:47, "Guido van Rossum" wrote: > > > > It would still be nice to know who "the appropriate persons&qu

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3121, 384 Refactoring Issues

2014-07-10 Thread Guido van Rossum
___ >> Python-Dev mailing list >> Python-Dev@python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev >> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/ >> brett%40python.org >> > >

Re: [Python-Dev] sum(...) limitation

2014-08-01 Thread Guido van Rossum
//mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/guido%40python.org > > -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] Exposing the Android platform existence to Python modules

2014-08-01 Thread Guido van Rossum
__ > Python-Dev mailing list > Python-Dev@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/guido%40python.org > -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___

Re: [Python-Dev] Exposing the Android platform existence to Python modules

2014-08-02 Thread Guido van Rossum
droid? In particular, I'd expect platform.linux_distribution() to return a clue that it's Android. There should also be clues in /etc/lsb-release (assuming Android supports it :-). -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___ Python-Dev mailing list Pyt

Re: [Python-Dev] Exposing the Android platform existence to Python modules

2014-08-02 Thread Guido van Rossum
Right. On Saturday, August 2, 2014, Phil Thompson wrote: > On 02/08/2014 7:36 pm, Guido van Rossum wrote: > >> On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 12:53 AM, Phil Thompson < >> p...@riverbankcomputing.com> >> wrote: >> >> To me the issue is whether, for a particular

Re: [Python-Dev] Exposing the Android platform existence to Python modules

2014-08-02 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Shiz wrote: > Guido van Rossum wrote: > > sys.platform is for a broad indication of the OS kernel. It can be > > used to distinguish Windows, Mac and Linux (and BSD, Solaris etc.). > > Since Android is Linux it should have the same sys.platfo

Re: [Python-Dev] Exposing the Android platform existence to Python modules

2014-08-02 Thread Guido van Rossum
quite clear about its value on Linux systems). Googling terms like "is Android Linux" suggests that there is considerable controversy about the issue, so I suggest you don't wait. :-) On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 3:49 PM, Shiz wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash:

Re: [Python-Dev] Exposing the Android platform existence to Python modules

2014-08-03 Thread Guido van Rossum
e new method before calling it) and leave poor sys.platform alone. On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 10:18 PM, Shiz wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA512 > > Guido van Rossum wrote: > > Well, it really does look like checking for the presence of those > > ANDROID_*

Re: [Python-Dev] Exposing the Android platform existence to Python modules

2014-08-03 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 10:16 AM, Phil Thompson wrote: > On 03/08/2014 4:58 pm, Guido van Rossum wrote: > >> But *are* we going to support Android officially? What's the point? Do you >> have a plan for getting Python apps to first-class status in the App Store >> (

Re: [Python-Dev] pathlib handling of trailing slash (Issue #21039)

2014-08-07 Thread Guido van Rossum
es to represent "a file", "a > directory", "a non-existing file", etc.) > > Regards > > Antoine. > > > > ___ > Python-Dev mailing list > Python-Dev@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listi

Re: [Python-Dev] Multiline with statement line continuation

2014-08-12 Thread Guido van Rossum
spam, > > open('eggs') as eggs): > > pass > > The parentheses seem unnecessary/redundant/weird. Why not allow > newlines in-between "with" and the terminating ":"? > > with open('foo') as fo

Re: [Python-Dev] Documenting enum types

2014-08-14 Thread Guido van Rossum
The enemy must be documented and exported, since users will encounter them. On Aug 14, 2014 4:54 AM, "Nick Coghlan" wrote: > On 14 August 2014 19:25, Victor Stinner wrote: > > Hi, > > > > IMO we should not document enum types because Python implementations > other > > than CPython may want to im

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 467: Minor API improvements for bytes & bytearray

2014-08-15 Thread Guido van Rossum
> handled > as an ``iterbytes(data)`` *builtin*, that used ``data.__iterbytes__()`` > if defined, but otherwise fell back to ``map(bytes.byte, data)``:: > > for x in iterbytes(data): > # x is a length 1 ``bytes`` object, rather than an integer > # Th

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 4000 to explicitly declare we won't be doing a Py3k style compatibility break again?

2014-08-16 Thread Guido van Rossum
folks won't be going off on their own to design a whole new language and name it Python 4, following Larry Wall's Perl 6 example? I think it makes sense to occasionally remind the more eager contributors that we want the future to come gently (that's not to say in our slee

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 4000 to explicitly declare we won't be doing a Py3k style compatibility break again?

2014-08-16 Thread Guido van Rossum
I think this would be a great topic for a blog post. Once you've written it I can even bless it by Tweeting about it. :-) PS. Why isn't PEP 387 accepted yet? On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 8:48 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > On 17 August 2014 12:43, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > On Sat

Re: [Python-Dev] "embedded NUL character" exceptions

2014-08-17 Thread Guido van Rossum
mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/ > guido%40python.org > -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] Fwd: PEP 467: Minor API improvements for bytes & bytearray

2014-08-17 Thread Guido van Rossum
; I value similar interfaces for bytes and bytearray pretty highly. I'm lukewarm on bytes.byte(c); but bytes([c]) does bother me because a size one list is (or at least feels) more expensive to allocate than a size one bytes object. So, okay. -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) _

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 4000 to explicitly declare we won't be doing a Py3k style compatibility break again?

2014-08-17 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 6:29 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Aug 16, 2014, at 07:43 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > >(Don't understand this to mean that we should never deprecate things. > >Deprecations will happen, they are necessary for the evolution of any > >program

Re: [Python-Dev] Fwd: PEP 467: Minor API improvements for bytes & bytearray

2014-08-19 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 5:25 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > On 18 August 2014 10:45, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 5:22 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > >> > >> On Aug 18, 2014, at 10:08 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > >> > >> >There's

Re: [Python-Dev] Bytes path support

2014-08-19 Thread Guido van Rossum
org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/ > guido%40python.org > -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org ht

Re: [Python-Dev] Bytes path support

2014-08-19 Thread Guido van Rossum
oding. Hence the occasional need for bytes arguments. But most of the time you don't have to think about that, and forcing users to worry about it is mostly as counter-productive as forcing to think about the encoding of every text file. -- --Guido van Rossum (python.

Re: [Python-Dev] Bytes path support

2014-08-19 Thread Guido van Rossum
n of things they think of as binary blobs. Not worth the > hassle to even seriously propose removing those APIs IMO. But maybe we don't have to add new ones? --Guido -- --Guido van Rossum (on iPad) ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@

Re: [Python-Dev] Bytes path support

2014-08-23 Thread Guido van Rossum
also giving me plenty of motivation to > get back to working on PEP 432 (the rewrite of the interpreter startup > sequence) for Python 3.5. A lot of these things are just plain hard to > change because of the complexity of the current startup code. > Redesigning that to use a cleaner, multiphas

Re: [Python-Dev] Bytes path related questions for Guido

2014-08-24 Thread Guido van Rossum
issue18814#msg225791 > > Regards, > Nick. > > -- > Nick Coghlan | ncogh...@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia > ___ > Python-Dev mailing list > Python-Dev@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-d

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 476: Enabling certificate validation by default!

2014-09-03 Thread Guido van Rossum
thon.org -- sooner or later some forgotten part of our infrastructure *will* come under attack.) -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 476: Enabling certificate validation by default!

2014-09-03 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Wed, 3 Sep 2014 10:54:55 -0700 > Guido van Rossum wrote: > > > > Let's take the plunge on this issue for the next 2.7 release (3.5 being a > > done deal). > > I'm entirely against this. > > > Yes, some people will find that they have an old script &g

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 476: Enabling certificate validation by default!

2014-09-03 Thread Guido van Rossum
19:54, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > Let's take the plunge on this issue for the next 2.7 release (3.5 being > > a done deal). Yes, some people will find that they have an old script > > accessing an old service which breaks. Surely some of the other changes > > in the sa

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed schedule for 3.4.2

2014-09-08 Thread Guido van Rossum
that's going to be the least of your security concerns". > Yeah, I am not interested in helping out the case where the user is incapable (for whatever reason) of tracking down and changing a couple of lines of code. Such users are dependent on someone else with wizard powers anyway (who gave

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed schedule for 3.4.2

2014-09-08 Thread Guido van Rossum
I will pronounce for 3.4 once you point me to the documentation that explains how to disable cert validation for an example program that currently pulls down an https URL using urlopen. Without adding package dependencies. On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Alex Gaynor wrote: > Guido van Ros

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed schedule for 3.4.2

2014-09-08 Thread Guido van Rossum
ontext = ssl.create_default_context() > context.verify_mode = CERT_OPTIONACERT_NONE > context.verify_hostname = False > urllib.request.urlopen(" > https://something-i-apparently-dont-care-much-about";, context=context) > > Alex > > > On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 10:35 AM, Guido

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed schedule for 3.4.2

2014-09-08 Thread Guido van Rossum
ng then I think documentation is more than enough. > > --- > Donald Stufft > PGP: 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA > > > ___ > Python-Dev mailing list > Python-Dev@python.org > https://mail.python.org/m

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed schedule for 3.4.2

2014-09-08 Thread Guido van Rossum
er as the monkey-patch > option? > > So after the (global to the module) monkeypatch, they would _still_ have > to add the keyword parameter. > > > > On 9/8/2014 4:31 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > I still prefer having a parameter on urlopen (or thereabouts) -- it feels &g

Re: [Python-Dev] Backwards compatibility after certificate autovalidation

2014-09-08 Thread Guido van Rossum
/listinfo/python-dev > > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/ncoghlan%40gmail.com > > ___ > Python-Dev mailing list > Python-Dev@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev > Unsub

Re: [Python-Dev] Suggested changes to verify HTTPS by default (was Re: Proposed schedule for 3.4.2)

2014-09-09 Thread Guido van Rossum
cyURLOpener(context=ssl._create_unverified_context()) > > And to revert to the old default behaviour globally: > > import ssl > ssl._create_https_context = ssl._create_unverified_context > > The backport to 2.7 would then be a matter of bringing urllib, > urllib

Re: [Python-Dev] List insert at index that is well out of range - behaves like append

2014-09-15 Thread Guido van Rossum
? >>> >>> I even raised it in stackoverflow >>> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/25840177/list- >>> insert-at-index-that-is-well-out-of-range-behaves-like-append >>> >>> and got some responses . >>> >> >> Hello Har

Re: [Python-Dev] List insert at index that is well out of range - behaves like append

2014-09-15 Thread Guido van Rossum
mpty string if s is shorter than 100. > Although shouldn't that read s[i:i+1] = [x] ? > Should've stopped while you were ahead. :-) 'Nuff said. -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@pyt

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 394 - Clarification of what "python" command should invoke

2014-09-19 Thread Guido van Rossum
> > maybe Python 4 can reclaim /usr/bin/python. > > I expect not quite. Perhaps 10 years though. > > > > -- > Steven > ___ > Python-Dev mailing list > Python-Dev@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailma

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 394 - Clarification of what "python" command should invoke

2014-09-19 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Sep 19, 2014 8:36 AM, "Antoine Pitrou" wrote: > > On Fri, 19 Sep 2014 08:20:48 -0700 > Guido van Rossum wrote: > > "python" should always be the same as "python2". > > "Always" as in "et

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP476: Enabling certificate validation by default

2014-09-19 Thread Guido van Rossum
ing list > Python-Dev@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/guido%40python.org > -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___ Python-Dev maili

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP476: Enabling certificate validation by default

2014-09-19 Thread Guido van Rossum
is du jour, without sufficient time > being available for regular infrastructure maintenance tasks. > > Regards, > Nick. > > -- > Nick Coghlan | ncogh...@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia > -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP476: Enabling certificate validation by default

2014-09-20 Thread Guido van Rossum
, 2014 at 8:54 AM, Alex Gaynor wrote: > Done and done. > > Alex > > On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 4:13 PM, Guido van Rossum > wrote: > >> +1 on Nick's suggestion. (Might also mention that this is the reason why >> both functions should exist and have compatible si

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP476: Enabling certificate validation by default

2014-09-20 Thread Guido van Rossum
e banner of PEP 476 for > backporting to the maintenance branches. > > Regards, > Nick. > > -- > Nick Coghlan | ncogh...@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia > -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___ Python-

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP476: Enabling certificate validation by default

2014-09-20 Thread Guido van Rossum
OK, I'll hold off a bit on approving the PEP, but my intention is to approve it. Go Alex go! On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 4:03 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > On 21 September 2014 08:22, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > Sounds good. Maybe we should put the specifically targeted releases in

Re: [Python-Dev] Backporting ensurepip to 2.7, Which commands to install?

2014-10-03 Thread Guido van Rossum
That is copying the (alt)install targets of Python's own Makefile, and I think those are exactly right. On Oct 3, 2014 3:07 PM, "Donald Stufft" wrote: > I'm working on the backport of ensurepip to Python 2.7, and I realized that > I'm not sure which commands to install. Right now by default pip (

Re: [Python-Dev] Backporting ensurepip to 2.7, Which commands to install?

2014-10-03 Thread Guido van Rossum
t's fine with me, just wanted > to > make sure it made sense for Python 2.x. Thanks! > > On Oct 3, 2014, at 8:31 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > That is copying the (alt)install targets of Python's own Makefile, and I > think those are exactly right. > On Oct 3, 20

Re: [Python-Dev] Backporting ensurepip to 2.7, Which commands to install?

2014-10-03 Thread Guido van Rossum
Yes. On Friday, October 3, 2014, Donald Stufft wrote: > Whoops, I misred. > > So to be clear, you think: > > install -> pip, pip2, pip2.7 > altinstall -> pip2.7 > > On Oct 3, 2014, at 8:46 PM, Guido van Rossum > wrote: > > That's not what I meant.

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of C compilers for Python on Windows

2014-10-10 Thread Merlijn van Deen
On 10 October 2014 02:29, Victor Stinner wrote: > The free version (Visual Studio Express) only supports 32-bit > VC++ 2008/2010 EE do not *bundle* a 64-bit compiler, but it's certainly possible to build 64-bit applications by using the compiler in the (also free) Windows SDK: http://jenshuebel

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP476: Enabling certificate validation by default

2014-10-12 Thread Guido van Rossum
! On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 2:57 PM, Alex Gaynor wrote: > Guido van Rossum python.org> writes: > > > > > OK, I'll hold off a bit on approving the PEP, but my intention is to > approve > > it. Go Alex go! > > > > A patch for the environmental variable

Re: [Python-Dev] How io.IOBase.readline() should behave when used on non-blocking obj and no data available?

2014-10-16 Thread Guido van Rossum
o ask their selector (or whatever they use) to wait for the underlying FD and then they can try again. (Alternatively, we could raise BlockingIOError, which is that the OS level read() raises if there's no data immediately available on a non-blocking FD; but it seems that streams ha

Re: [Python-Dev] isinstance() on old-style classes in Py 2.7

2014-10-21 Thread Guido van Rossum
any > mai...@de.ibm.com, +49-7031-16-3654 > > IBM Deutschland Research & Development GmbH > Vorsitzende des Aufsichtsrats: Martina Koederitz > Geschaeftsfuehrung: Dirk Wittkopp > Sitz der Gesells

Re: [Python-Dev] isinstance() on old-style classes in Py 2.7

2014-10-21 Thread Guido van Rossum
Hm. I've never been a fan of that. EIBTI and such... On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 10:53 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Oct 21, 2014, at 10:13 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > >For new code, and whenever you have an opportunity to refactor old code, > >you should use new-style

Re: [Python-Dev] Cross compiling Python (for Android)

2014-10-24 Thread Guido van Rossum
dule.c: > > > > --- a/Modules/pwdmodule.c 2014-05-19 00:19:39.0 -0500 > > +++ b/Modules/pwdmodule.c 2014-10-21 18:00:35.676331205 -0500 > > @@ -57,6 +57,10 @@ > >} > > } > > > > +#if defined(HAVE_BROKEN_GECOS_FIELD) > > +static ch

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of C compilers for Python on Windows

2014-10-25 Thread Guido van Rossum
e out the inconsistencies between tools so we can document and > work > > through them. > > > > Having different builds of CPython out there will only fragment the > > community and hurt extension authors far more than it may seem to hel

Re: [Python-Dev] results of id() and weakref.getweakrefs() sometimes break on object resurrection

2014-10-25 Thread Guido van Rossum
hon-Dev mailing list > > Python-Dev@python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev > > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/stefan.richthofer%40gmx.de > > > ___ > Python-Dev m

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of C compilers for Python on Windows

2014-10-27 Thread Case Van Horsen
On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 10:48 AM, Paul Moore wrote: > The bad news is that the support added to the old 32-bit mingw to > support linking to alternative C runtime libraries (specifically > -lmsvcr100) has bitrotted, and no longer functions correctly in > mingw-w64. As a result, not only can mingw-

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 475

2014-10-28 Thread Guido van Rossum
0475/ > > Victor > ___ > Python-Dev mailing list > Python-Dev@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/guido%40python.org >

Re: [Python-Dev] The role of NotImplemented: What is it for and when should it be used?

2014-11-03 Thread Guido van Rossum
Gotta be brief, but NotImplemented is for all binary ops. Power may be an exception because it's ternary? On Nov 3, 2014 8:08 AM, "Brett Cannon" wrote: > > > On Mon Nov 03 2014 at 5:31:21 AM Ethan Furman wrote: > >> Just to be clear, this is about NotImplemented, not NotImplementedError. >> >>

Re: [Python-Dev] The role of NotImplemented: What is it for and when should it be used?

2014-11-03 Thread Guido van Rossum
Not those. On Nov 3, 2014 8:56 AM, "Antoine Pitrou" wrote: > On Mon, 3 Nov 2014 08:48:07 -0800 > Guido van Rossum wrote: > > Gotta be brief, but NotImplemented is for all binary ops. > > Even in-place ops? > > Regards > > Antoine. > > > >

Re: [Python-Dev] The role of NotImplemented: What is it for and when should it be used?

2014-11-03 Thread Guido van Rossum
ow if the byte code interpreter looks for Not implemented from __iop__. On Nov 3, 2014 9:00 AM, "Guido van Rossum" wrote: > Not those. > On Nov 3, 2014 8:56 AM, "Antoine Pitrou" wrote: > >> On Mon, 3 Nov 2014 08:48:07 -0800 >> Guido van Rossum wrote: >&

Re: [Python-Dev] The role of NotImplemented: What is it for and when should it be used?

2014-11-03 Thread Guido van Rossum
That must be so that an immutable type can still implement __iop__ as an optimization. On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 9:10 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Mon, 3 Nov 2014 09:05:43 -0800 > Guido van Rossum wrote: > > Sorry, was too quick. For immutable types __iop__ may not exist and

Re: [Python-Dev] The role of NotImplemented: What is it for and when should it be used?

2014-11-03 Thread Guido van Rossum
hon-dev > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/ > guido%40python.org > -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev U

Re: [Python-Dev] Real-world use of Counter

2014-11-06 Thread Guido van Rossum
be okay if it *did* raise). -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] Static checker for common Python programming errors

2014-11-17 Thread Guido van Rossum
; * Check for None object dereferences > > Thanks a lot, > Stefan Bucur > > [1] http://clang-analyzer.llvm.org/available_checks.html > > > ___ > Python-Dev mailing list > Python-Dev@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/list

Re: [Python-Dev] Static checker for common Python programming errors

2014-11-18 Thread Guido van Rossum
Please also check python-static-type-check...@googlegroups.com. On Nov 18, 2014 3:06 AM, "Stefan Bucur" wrote: > Thanks for the pointer! There seem indeed to be more formal analysis tools > for JavaScript than for Python (e.g., the most recent one for JS I know of > is the Jalangi framework [1]).

[Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-19 Thread Guido van Rossum
not until we've had a review here at python-dev. I would like to thank Chris Angelico for writing the original PEP draft. -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/list

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-20 Thread Guido van Rossum
drafting these additions? On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 2:05 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > On 20 November 2014 06:15, Benjamin Peterson wrote: > >> >> On Wed, Nov 19, 2014, at 15:10, Guido van Rossum wrote: >> > There's a new PEP proposing to change how to treat StopIt

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-20 Thread Guido van Rossum
from" PEP). How about "generate_escape"? >> > > Or may be "generator_stop_iteration"? > Or just "generator_stop"? -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-20 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 14:04:24 -0800 > Guido van Rossum wrote: > > > On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 12:13 PM, Serhiy Storchaka > > wrote: > > > > > On 20.11.14 21:58, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > > &g

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-21 Thread Guido van Rossum
er iterator (though it also has a few others -- send(), throw(), close()). However *inside* they are not at all similar -- generators produce a value is done through "yield", __next__() methods use return. Even if we end up rejecting the PEP we should campaign for better understanding of

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-21 Thread Guido van Rossum
lass of StopIteration -- but it doesn't really have to be, it could be a different exception (like in Tornado). So I haven't found any framework that recommends "raise StopIteration(v)". Sure, some frameworks will have to be changed, but they have until

Re: [Python-Dev] Move selected documentation repos to PSF BitBucket account?

2014-11-21 Thread Guido van Rossum
Like it or not, github is easily winning this race. -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options

Re: [Python-Dev] Move selected documentation repos to PSF BitBucket account?

2014-11-21 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 9:26 PM, Tshepang Lekhonkhobe wrote: > On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 8:46 PM, Guido van Rossum > wrote: > > Like it or not, github is easily winning this race. > > Are you considering moving CPython development to Github? > No, but I prefer it for new p

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-22 Thread Guido van Rossum
is the right thing going forward. -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] Move selected documentation repos to PSF BitBucket account?

2014-11-22 Thread Guido van Rossum
moving to GitHub. For PEPs I've noticed that for most PEPs these days (unless the primary author is a core dev) the author sets up a git repo first anyway, and the friction of moving between such repos and the "official" repo is a pain. -- --Guido van

Re: [Python-Dev] Move selected documentation repos to PSF BitBucket account?

2014-11-22 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Saturday, November 22, 2014, Nick Coghlan wrote: > On 23 November 2014 at 15:19, Guido van Rossum > wrote: > > This thread seems to beg for a decision. I think Donald Stufft has it > > exactly right: we should move to GitHub, because it is the easiest to use > > and m

Re: [Python-Dev] Move selected documentation repos to PSF BitBucket account?

2014-11-23 Thread Guido van Rossum
b. I promise you that once the pain of the switch is over you will feel much better about it. I am also convinced that we'll get more contributions this way. Note: I am not (yet) proposing we switch CPython itself. Switching it would be a lot of work, and it is specifically out of scope for th

Re: [Python-Dev] Please reconsider PEP 479.

2014-11-23 Thread Guido van Rossum
nothing except improving the > documentation of next(). Explain that it can raise StopIteration which, if > allowed to propogate can cause premature exhaustion of an iterator. > > If something must be done then I would suggest changing the behaviour of > next() for an exhausted i

Re: [Python-Dev] Move selected documentation repos to PSF BitBucket account?

2014-11-23 Thread Guido van Rossum
man pages got to the point where I basically use > Google to ask my questions, then bookmark the solutions I find (which often > turn out to be on stackoverflow). > Then there's this. http://git-man-page-generator.lokaltog.net/ -- --Guido van Rossum (on iPad) _

Re: [Python-Dev] Please reconsider PEP 479.

2014-11-24 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 8:14 AM, Isaac Schwabacher wrote: > On 11/23/14, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > > It wouldn't be so bad if we had the occasional generator author writing > "raise StopIteration" instead of "return" to exit from a generator. (We > c

Re: [Python-Dev] Please reconsider PEP 479.

2014-11-24 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 1:32 PM, Isaac Schwabacher wrote: > On 11/24/14, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 8:14 AM, Isaac Schwabacher < > ischwabac...@wisc.edu(javascript:main.compose()> wrote: > > > > > On 11/23/14, Guido van Rossum wrote: &g

Re: [Python-Dev] Please reconsider PEP 479.

2014-11-24 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 3:07 PM, Isaac Schwabacher wrote: > On 11/24/14, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 1:32 PM, Isaac Schwabacher < > ischwabac...@wisc.edu > ischwabac...@wisc.edu> wrote: > > > > > On 11/24/14, Guido van Rossum wrote:

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-24 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 4:21 PM, Alexander Belopolsky < alexander.belopol...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 3:10 PM, Guido van Rossum > wrote: > >> There's a new PEP proposing to change how to treat StopIteration bubbling >> up out of a generator

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-25 Thread Guido van Rossum
or. I'll clarify this in the PEP (even though it logically follows from the proposal) -- I don't think there's anything to worry about. -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.py

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-25 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Isaac Schwabacher wrote: > On 11/25/14, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 9:49 AM, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com')" target="1">ros...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Wed, Nov 26, 2

Re: [Python-Dev] Please reconsider PEP 479.

2014-11-25 Thread Guido van Rossum
ons escaping > from generators, but the PEP should sell the idea on that basis, not > on what sounds like a false promise that it will make comprehensions > and generators behave identically. > I will weaken that language. -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-26 Thread Guido van Rossum
not just a demonstration. If you want to try though, I'm happy to entertain a pull request for the PEP. -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscr

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