Re: [Python-Dev] 3.2.0

2011-02-16 Thread Terry Reedy
On 2/16/2011 5:39 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 5:05 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: On Feb 16, 2011, at 12:34 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: I would like the next release called 3.2.0 rather than just 3.2. +1 (I'd have said +0 for the humor of it :). +0 I actually *am* on

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.2.0

2011-02-17 Thread Terry Reedy
On 2/17/2011 1:36 AM, Senthil Kumaran wrote: On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 1:34 AM, Terry Reedy wrote: 'x.y' is known to be ambiguous and confusing. Not really. Actually, to me, the confusion is slightly worse, and the reason to change slightly stronger, than I initially explained.

Re: [Python-Dev] Fwd: deep question re dict as formatting input

2011-02-22 Thread Terry Reedy
On 2/22/2011 6:32 PM, Senthil Kumaran wrote: On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 6:01 PM, Steve Holden wrote: ... It would appear from tests that "{0[X]}".format(...) first tries to convert the string "X" to in integer. If it succeeds then __getitem__() is called with the integer as an argument, otherwise

[Python-Dev] 3.2.0 == 20th anniversary release

2011-02-23 Thread Terry Reedy
As pointed out by Ramiro Morales on the Python-Argentina list (quoting Guido's blog post http://python-history.blogspot.com/2009/01/brief-timeline-of-python.html ) Python 0.9.0 was released on 20 Feb 1991 Python 3.2.0 was released on 20 Feb 2011 Python's come a long way. I look forward to the ne

Re: [Python-Dev] set iteration order

2011-02-26 Thread Terry Reedy
On 2/26/2011 4:09 AM, Hagen Fürstenau wrote: Hi, I just hunted down a change in behaviour between Python 3.1 and 3.2 to possibly changed iteration order of sets due to the optimization in issue #8685. Of course, this order shouldn't be relied on in the first place, but the side effect of the opt

Re: [Python-Dev] Support the /usr/bin/python2 symlink upstream

2011-03-04 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/4/2011 7:40 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 4:10 PM, Westley Martínez All right I have to reply to all these "singular they" remarks. Just because the singular they has been used for a long time doesn't make it right. It sounds unnatural, at least to me, and I've always b

Re: [Python-Dev] Support the /usr/bin/python2 symlink upstream

2011-03-05 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/5/2011 12:44 PM, Paul Moore wrote: On 5 March 2011 15:09, Michael Foord wrote: On 04/03/2011 21:35, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: It would also be good if the PEP took a position on providing pythonXY.exe binaries on Windows (with the related question of whether it's python32w.exe, python3.2w.

Re: [Python-Dev] CPython hg transition complete

2011-03-06 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/6/2011 12:44 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: Le dimanche 06 mars 2011 à 11:34 -0600, s...@pobox.com a écrit : At this point you can push to the public repo from your "3.2" clone, or repeat the above push& merge to your "default" clone (with the "default" branch checked out) and push from there

Re: [Python-Dev] hg pull failed

2011-03-06 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/6/2011 11:07 AM, Georg Brandl wrote: On 06.03.2011 16:44, s...@pobox.com wrote: Georg> Yesterday's repository was still the test repository, now it's Georg> the real one. You'll need to clone again. Thanks. I have a question about updates from cloned clones. Suppose I clone

Re: [Python-Dev] r88758 - tracker/instances/python-dev/scripts/addpatchsets

2011-03-06 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/6/2011 11:43 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: compute the base rev. Most reviewable patches should apply cleanly against the latest revision on "default", That was sensible when we ported patches back, but if they should be ported forward (3.1 => 3.2 => default), do we not want the patch to ap

Re: [Python-Dev] [PEPs] Support the /usr/bin/python2 symlink upstream

2011-03-06 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/6/2011 8:18 PM, Mark Hammond wrote: To be clear, I was suggesting that using .bat files in system32 is a close analogy to the *nix situation - I didn't mean to advocate for it to actually happen :) Further, I see the creation of a python3.exe in the Python install directory as quite differe

Re: [Python-Dev] PyCObject_AsVoidPtr removed from python 3.2 - is this documented?

2011-03-06 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/6/2011 6:09 PM, Barry Scott wrote: I see that PyCObject_AsVoidPtr has been removed from python 3.2. The 3.2 docs do not seem to explain this has happened and what to replace it with. I searched the 3.2 docs and failed to find PyCObject_AsVoidPtr. I looked at the whats new page and the API P

Re: [Python-Dev] PyCObject_AsVoidPtr removed from python 3.2 - is this documented?

2011-03-07 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/7/2011 9:47 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On Mon, 7 Mar 2011 19:14:55 +1000 Nick Coghlan wrote: On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 6:36 PM, John Arbash Meinel wrote: Especially since, AIUI, deprecations are suppressed by default now. True, but developers are expected to run their tests with them ena

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] r88709 - in python/branches/py3k: Misc/NEWS Objects/unicodeobject.c

2011-03-07 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/7/2011 5:54 AM, Victor Stinner wrote: I don’t really understand this message (especially “cached into the object”) :) Maybe in the Misc/NEWS entry you could also add a line to explain to users the reason/goal/benefit of this change? If you call str.encode() twice: the first call stores t

Re: [Python-Dev] hg pull failed

2011-03-07 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/7/2011 2:16 AM, Georg Brandl wrote: On 07.03.2011 00:16, Terry Reedy wrote: But would it work ?? to just pull once into default from the central repository (slow) and then pull from there (fast) into maintenance clones? I expect to nearly always be only working on issues that affect

Re: [Python-Dev] [PEPs] Support the /usr/bin/python2 symlink upstream

2011-03-08 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/7/2011 9:31 PM, Reliable Domains wrote: The launcher need not be called "python.exe", and maybe it would be better called #@launcher.exe (or similar, depending on its exact function details). I do not know that the '#@' part is about, but pygo would be short and expressive. -- Terry Ja

Re: [Python-Dev] [PEPs] Support the /usr/bin/python2 symlink upstream

2011-03-09 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/9/2011 1:27 AM, Mark Hammond wrote: your position but my personal opinion is that simple support for #! is more desirable. I agree. One weird line in a file is enough! -- Terry Jan Reedy ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http:/

Re: [Python-Dev] public visibility of python-dev decisions "before it's too late" (was: PyCObject_AsVoidPtr removed from python 3.2 - is this documented?)

2011-03-09 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/9/2011 4:14 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On Wed, 9 Mar 2011 19:42:36 +0100 Perhaps the part of the "what's new" document which deals with porting issues and compatibility breakage would need more highlighting? That could go at the tops. Deletions in 3.3 ... Planned deletions in future ver

Re: [Python-Dev] public visibility of python-dev decisions "before it's too late" (was: PyCObject_AsVoidPtr removed from python 3.2 - is this documented?)

2011-03-09 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/9/2011 9:50 AM, Tim Lesher wrote: We used to do biweekly-ish Python-Dev summaries for this reason. They were, is a sense, too detailed, complete, and voluminous. In whatever format, terser announcement of just things others really need to know - like decisions that affect them, would pro

Re: [Python-Dev] Introductions

2011-03-12 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/12/2011 9:41 AM, Ross Lagerwall wrote: Hi, I have been offered commit rights for Python after making a few patches on subprocess and the os module. Antoine suggested that I should introduce myself on the python-dev list so here we go: I am a student from South Africa and decided to do som

Re: [Python-Dev] About raising NotPortableWarning for CPython specific code

2011-03-12 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/12/2011 8:59 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 8:33 AM, Laura Creighton wrote: For those of you not at the Language Summit at PyCON the day before yesterday, there was talk of identifying non-portable behaviour, such as relying on CPython's reference counting garbage collecto

Re: [Python-Dev] About raising NotPortableWarning for CPython specific code

2011-03-12 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/12/2011 3:04 PM, Thomas Wouters wrote: It should be fixed, yes, but breaking existing code is going to piss off a lot of people (like me) who already have enough worries when upgrading Python. It is apparent that there *is* code out there that relies on this behaviour, we shouldn't break it

Re: [Python-Dev] About raising NotPortableWarning for CPython specific code

2011-03-12 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/12/2011 8:33 AM, Laura Creighton wrote: The thread with the whole gory details begins here: http://codespeak.net/pipermail/pypy-dev/2011q1/006958.html The second, multiplication issue does appears to be the same issue. Augmenting my previous test: class C(object): def __iter__(self):

Re: [Python-Dev] Python3 regret about deleting list.sort(cmp=...)

2011-03-12 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/12/2011 3:44 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: I was just reminded that in Python 3, list.sort() and sorted() no longer support the cmp (comparator) function argument. The reason is that the key function argument is always better. But now I have a nagging doubt about this: I recently advised a Go

Re: [Python-Dev] Python3 regret about deleting list.sort(cmp=...)

2011-03-12 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/12/2011 5:09 PM, Reid Kleckner wrote: On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 4:50 PM, Reid Kleckner wrote: They should be able to use a slotted cmp_to_key style class: http://docs.python.org/howto/sorting.html That will allocate 1 Python object with

Re: [Python-Dev] Python3 regret about deleting list.sort(cmp=...)

2011-03-12 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/12/2011 8:28 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: Fredrik Johansson wrote: Consider sorting a list of pairs representing fractions. This can be done easily in Python 2.x with the comparison function lambda (p,q),(r,s): cmp(p*s, q*r). In Python 2.6, this is about 40 times faster than using fractions.

Re: [Python-Dev] About raising NotPortableWarning for CPython specific code

2011-03-12 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/12/2011 8:23 PM, Neil Schemenauer wrote: Greg Ewing wrote: So am I. It seems to result from the hisorical mess of distinguishing between numeric and sequence operations at the C level but not the Python level. I think CPython should be moving in the direction of eliminating that distinctio

Re: [Python-Dev] Python3 regret about deleting list.sort(cmp=...)

2011-03-12 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/12/2011 8:47 PM, Glenn Linderman wrote: On 3/12/2011 2:09 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: I believe that if the integer field were padded with leading blanks as needed so that all are the same length, then no key would be needed. Did you mean that "if the integer field were" converted

Re: [Python-Dev] Python3 regret about deleting list.sort(cmp=...)

2011-03-12 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/12/2011 10:52 PM, Glenn Linderman wrote: On 3/12/2011 7:21 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: The safest such character is \0,\ Works fine in Python. unless you are coding in C, Then \01 is next best. I wouldn't have called you on this, except that it really is important not to give p

Re: [Python-Dev] Python3 regret about deleting list.sort(cmp=...)

2011-03-13 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/13/2011 2:05 PM, Daniel Stutzbach wrote: On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 3:44 PM, Guido van Rossum mailto:gu...@python.org>> wrote: I recently advised a Googler who was sorting a large dataset and running out of memory. My analysis of the situation was that he was sorting a huge list of

Re: [Python-Dev] pydoc for named tuples is missing methods

2011-03-14 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/14/2011 9:23 PM, Eric Smith wrote: On 3/14/2011 8:44 PM, James Mills wrote: On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 9:48 AM, R. David Murray wrote: But directly calling a __xxx__ method in Python is a very unusual thing to do. It would be extremely odd to have that be the expected way to call a method on

Re: [Python-Dev] pydoc for named tuples is missing methods

2011-03-15 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/15/2011 11:17 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 10:22 AM, Michael Foord wrote: On 15/03/2011 07:59, Nick Coghlan wrote: While I actually think the current API design is a decent compromise, another option to consider would be to move the underscore to the *end* (as_dict_, r

Re: [Python-Dev] cpython: Fix #11509. Significantly increase test coverage for fileinput.

2011-03-15 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/15/2011 11:57 AM, Brian Curtin wrote: On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 11:28, Nick Coghlan mailto:ncogh...@gmail.com>> wrote: On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 10:52 AM, Brian Curtin mailto:brian.cur...@gmail.com>> wrote: > Agreed. I'll rename them to be more expressive. Don't forget NEWS an

Re: [Python-Dev] cpython (3.1): #11515: fix several typos. Patch by Piotr Kasprzyk.

2011-03-15 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/15/2011 1:00 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On Tue, 15 Mar 2011 04:19:24 +0100 ezio.melotti wrote: Modules/_ctypes/libffi/src/powerpc/ffi_darwin.c Modules/_ctypes/libffi_osx/powerpc/ppc-ffi_darwin.c libffi is a third-party library and you should probably not introduce gratuitous changes

Re: [Python-Dev] New contributors at the PyCon sprint

2011-03-16 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/16/2011 12:10 PM, Brian Curtin wrote: Hi all, As I'm sure you're all aware, the PyCon sprints are going on right now and will run for two more days. As a result, you may have noticed an Yes. Emphasizing improved test coverage was a great idea. It is relatively easy and definitely needed,

Re: [Python-Dev] API deprecations in Python 3, from a Python 2 perspective

2011-03-17 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/17/2011 11:04 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote: I've thought some more about deprecations and subsequent deletions in Python 3 (but not read the whole thread -- sorry, I've gotten sick right after coming home from PyCon). I think that as long as a significant number of people are still using Pyth

Re: [Python-Dev] Please retract my committer rights

2011-03-17 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/17/2011 1:45 PM, Benjamin Peterson wrote: 2011/3/16 Thomas Heller: I would like my committer rights to be retracted. I have been contributing to Python here and there for 10 years now, and it was a pleasant experience. Unfortunately, since about a year I have lots more things to do, and I

Re: [Python-Dev] Please retract my committer rights

2011-03-18 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/18/2011 10:48 AM, Senthil Kumaran wrote: Doug Hellmann wrote: On Mar 18, 2011, at 9:59 AM, Jesse Noller wrote: Terry Reedy wrote: there are several open issues. There is certainly a opening for a new person with C experience. about on the PSF blog. Having another ctypes expert is

Re: [Python-Dev] Please retract my committer rights

2011-03-18 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/18/2011 10:17 AM, Doug Hellmann wrote: Is there a "job description" for a ctypes maintainer? I would say a knowledge of C and C implementations, a tolerance of OS idiosyncrasies, and an interest bridging C to Python and in particular the way ctpes does it. (I intentionally omitted gener

Re: [Python-Dev] Draft PEP and reference implementation of a Python launcher for Windows

2011-03-20 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/20/2011 3:22 AM, Glenn Linderman wrote: On 3/19/2011 7:38 PM, Mark Hammond wrote: [snip] As both a writer and reader, I would like to just add, for instance, #! python3 (or 3.3 or whatever) and have the launcher do the 'right thing'. It seems to me that that really should be enough info fo

Re: [Python-Dev] VM and Language summit info for those not at Pycon (and those that are!)

2011-03-20 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/20/2011 10:51 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On Sun, 20 Mar 2011 14:39:20 +0100 Stefan Behnel wrote: If anyone knows about a good benchmark for a currently pure Python standard library module, preferably a smaller, self-contained one that's somewhat computationally intensive, I'd be happy to h

Re: [Python-Dev] I am now lost - committed, pulled, merged, what is "collapse"?

2011-03-20 Thread Terry Reedy
What you felt like doing after doing the rest;-? I believe your question and its answers have helped me understand hg better for when I dive in. Thanks. -- Terry Jan Reedy ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mail

Re: [Python-Dev] Draft PEP and reference implementation of a Python launcher for Windows

2011-03-20 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/20/2011 6:35 PM, Westley Martínez wrote: On Sun, 2011-03-20 at 05:36 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote: As both a writer and reader, I would like to just add, for instance, #! python3 (or 3.3 or whatever) and have the launcher do the 'right thing'. It seems to me that that really

Re: [Python-Dev] I am now lost - committed, pulled, merged, what is "collapse"?

2011-03-21 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/21/2011 7:14 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: hg broadens the check and complains if *any* files are not up to date on any of the branches being pushed, thus making it a requirement to do a hg pull and merge on all affected branches before the hg push can succeed. In theory, this provides an opportu

Re: [Python-Dev] Workflow proposal

2011-03-22 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/22/2011 1:38 PM, Jesus Cea wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Most of our problems are related to trying to keep a lineal history, and races with pull-patch-commit-push cycle. I propose the following workflow. All branches (except 2.7) MUST be merged to default, all the t

Re: [Python-Dev] Submitting changes through Mercurial

2011-03-22 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/22/2011 8:53 AM, Éric Araujo wrote: I still don't understand what that's supposed to look like. Is it supposed to be a URL which refers to my local repository? No, to a repository published somewhere (hg.python.org, bitbucket (make a server-side clone of mirror/cpython), any other hosting

Re: [Python-Dev] Submitting changes through Mercurial

2011-03-22 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/22/2011 9:51 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: Pressing that button seems to create a duplicate patch, which is not good. Given that there is no connection between the repository names (which seem to be duplicated) and the resulting file name, there is no way to tell whether to press the button o

Re: [Python-Dev] __reduce__

2011-03-23 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/23/2011 11:23 AM, Kristján Valur Jónsson wrote: The __reduce__ protocol doesn‘t provide for keyword arguments to the constructor. Some constructor arguments are only available as keyword arguments. Annoying, isn‘t it? I suspect it is ;-). If you think this could be changed and are ready t

Re: [Python-Dev] Python3: speed efficiency vs user friendliness (my first experience)

2011-03-23 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/23/2011 8:58 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 9:57 PM, anatoly techtonik wrote: Python 3 actually chose *cross-platform consistency* over user convenience when switching away from the platform IO implementations. Given that print acted differently on *nix and Windows, th

Re: [Python-Dev] sprints and pushes

2011-03-23 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/23/2011 9:36 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: That's where the D in DVCS comes in. It's a new world, friends. All you need to do is bring a $50 wireless router to the sprint, and have some volunteer set up a shared repo for the sprinters. Then some volunteer *later* runs the tests and pilo

Re: [Python-Dev] cpython (3.1): #2650: Refactor re.escape to use enumerate().

2011-03-26 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/26/2011 2:17 PM, Georg Brandl wrote: "Refactor" doesn't sound like it belongs in the 3.1 branch... -for i in range(len(pattern)): -c = pattern[i] +for i, c in enumerate(pattern): I would call thin 'Replace obsolete idiom in' rather than 'Refactor'. So are you

Re: [Python-Dev] utf-8 encoding in checkins?

2011-03-27 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/27/2011 2:13 PM, Eugene Toder wrote: I'm not disputing that, and I understand that my current choice of mail reader limits me. I was just asking if it would be possible (read: fairly easy) to only generate utf-8 when it was necessary. Isn't utf-8 itself same as ascii where no non-ascii sy

Re: [Python-Dev] Hg: inter-branch workflow

2011-03-28 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/28/2011 6:13 AM, Paul Moore wrote: This philosophy is essentially what the "mq" extension to Mercurial tries to capture. In mq, you maintain a series of patches "on top of" your repository, amending, refining and rebasing them as you wish until they are ready to commit, at which time you ta

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed change to logging.basicConfig

2011-03-29 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/29/2011 12:35 PM, Vinay Sajip wrote: I'm planning a change to logging.basicConfig to add an optional "handlers" keyword argument which defaults to None. If specified, this should be an iterable of already created handlers, which will be added to the root logger (if it doesn't already have a

[Python-Dev] cmp= & key= (Re: Proposed change to logging.basicConfig)

2011-03-29 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/29/2011 4:02 PM, Matthew Woodcraft wrote: Terry Reedy wrote: # Experiment with 2.7 shows that cmp wins. Though too late to change, I consider this the worst choice of three. I think an exception should be raised. Failing that, I think key should win on the basis that if one adds a 

Re: [Python-Dev] Security implications of pep 383

2011-03-29 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/29/2011 2:23 PM, Michael Foord wrote: Not sure how real the security risk is here: http://blog.omega-prime.co.uk/?p=107 Basically he is saying that if you store a list of blacklisted files with names encoded in big-5 (or some other non-utf8 compatible encoding) if those names are passed a

Re: [Python-Dev] Security implications of pep 383

2011-03-30 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/30/2011 2:57 AM, Gregory P. Smith wrote: http://blog.omega-prime.co.uk/?p=107 I posted link to this as comment, with my summary of thread. I don't see your comment on the blog post. So either the author is moderating comments and hasn't seen yours yet (likely) My comment and Nick's

[Python-Dev] Please revert autofolding of tracker edit form

2011-03-30 Thread Terry Reedy
The tracker was recently changed so that when I click on a link to a tracker page, the page is properly displayed, but then a fraction of a second it blinks and redisplays with the edit form hidden. This is so obnoxious to me that I no longer want to visit the tracker. Then I have to find and c

Re: [Python-Dev] Please revert autofolding of tracker edit form

2011-03-30 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/30/2011 7:32 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: There's a lot of "noise" but that noise is useful. I find the natural language summary to be much too terse and doesn't make it easy to visualize said information as opposed to the form fields. Yes, there is a good reason why database records are rou

Re: [Python-Dev] Security implications of pep 383

2011-03-30 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/30/2011 6:39 PM, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: Really, surrogates are a red herring to this whole issue. The issue is that the original code was trying to compare two different transformations of byte sequences and expecting them to be equal. Let's say that you have the following byte value::

Re: [Python-Dev] Non-code changes on "old" branches

2011-03-31 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/31/2011 12:31 AM, Mark Hammond wrote: Hi, There are a couple of changes I'd like to make and would like some guidance on policy: http://bugs.python.org/issue6498 is a documentation bug which exists in Python 2.6 and later. The patch in that bug touches the docs and a comment in one source f

Re: [Python-Dev] Please revert autofolding of tracker edit form

2011-03-31 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/31/2011 9:59 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: Le jeudi 31 mars 2011 à 23:48 +1000, Nick Coghlan a écrit : On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:16 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: It would be nice if someone with UI design experience was interested in maintaining/improving the tracker. The challenge is the same

Re: [Python-Dev] Please revert autofolding of tracker edit form

2011-03-31 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/31/2011 7:27 PM, Raymond Hettinger wrote: On Mar 31, 2011, at 9:52 AM, Terry Reedy wrote: I would like to try putting the comment box after the last (most recent) comment, as that is the message one most ofter responds to. Having to now scroll up and down between comment box and last

Re: [Python-Dev] Impaired Usability of the Mercurial Source Viewer

2011-03-31 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/31/2011 7:15 PM, Raymond Hettinger wrote: The Hg source viewer needs to be tweaked to improve its usability. What we've got now is a step backwards from the previous svn viewer. Looking at http://hg.python.org/cpython/file/default/Lib/linecache.py for example, there are two issues. 1) the c

Re: [Python-Dev] Please revert autofolding of tracker edit form

2011-03-31 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/31/2011 8:26 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 12:52:23 -0400 Terry Reedy wrote: Here is my proposal for a redesign based on an analysis of my usage ;-). I have a 1600x1050 (or thereabouts), 20" (measured) diagonal, 17" across screen. The left column has a 7/8"

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue 11715: building Python from source on multiarch Debian/Ubuntu

2011-04-01 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/1/2011 9:45 AM, Michael Foord wrote: See thread starting at http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2010-August/103263.html As far as I can tell there was no clear decision there either. :-) I read it as deciding no doc fixes. (Other than no *need* to bother, which doesn't answer t

Re: [Python-Dev] Please revert autofolding of tracker edit form

2011-04-01 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/1/2011 6:44 AM, Georg Brandl wrote: Am 01.04.2011 06:02, schrieb Terry Reedy: would switch. Just forgot here. Multiply everything by 2.4 for cm. Or by 2.54, if you're using SI cm :) Then its a good thing I did the conversions with a dual scale ruler ;-). So the number were accura

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue 11715: building Python from source on multiarch Debian/Ubuntu

2011-04-01 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/1/2011 7:52 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: necessary, I leave it alone. I think we're still due one last bug fix release of Python 3.1, right? Yes, hopefully soon. -- Terry Jan Reedy ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.pyth

Re: [Python-Dev] Policy for making changes to the AST

2011-04-03 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/2/2011 9:55 PM, Eugene Toder wrote: Documentation for ast module does not warn about possible changes, The current boxed warning at the top of the dis doc is fairly recent. The ast doc should gain something similar. It currently does say: "__version__ which is the decimal Subversion revi

Re: [Python-Dev] Policy for making changes to the AST

2011-04-04 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/3/2011 10:02 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: Sure, but do we have any indication that the warnings for dis make a difference? I think there had been a few grumbles about bytecode not being stable. Without that, it is part of the newish effort to specify in the docs what is CPython specific.

Re: [Python-Dev] Policy for making changes to the AST

2011-04-04 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/4/2011 2:00 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 10:05 AM, fwierzbi...@gmail.com wrote: As a re-implementor of ast.py that tries to be node for node compatible, I'm fine with #1 but would really like to have tests that will fail in test_ast.py to alert me! [and] On Mon, A

Re: [Python-Dev] Policy for making changes to the AST

2011-04-04 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/4/2011 4:05 PM, Dino Viehland wrote: "reduce" to the core DLR nodes on-demand). We already do a huge amount of manipulation of those ASTs from optimizations (constant folding being the primary one) to re-writing them completely for things like generators or sys.settrace support and other

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 399: Pure Python/C Accelerator Module Compatibiilty Requirements

2011-04-05 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/5/2011 3:57 PM, Raymond Hettinger wrote: [Brett] This PEP requires that in these instances that both the Python and C code must be semantically identical Are you talking about the guaranteed semantics promised by the docs or are you talking about every possible implementation detail? I

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 399: Pure Python/C Accelerator Module Compatibiilty Requirements

2011-04-06 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/6/2011 1:24 PM, Maciej Fijalkowski wrote: No worries, it wasn't even my code. Someone donated it. The was a discusion on python-dev and collective agreement to allow it to have semantic differences that would let it run faster. IIRC, the final call was made by Uncle Timmy. ... And, for t

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 399: Pure Python/C Accelerator Module Compatibiilty Requirements

2011-04-06 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/6/2011 2:54 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: I believe that at the time of that decision, the Python [heapq] code was only intended for humans, like the Python (near) equivalents in the itertools docs to C-coded itertool functions. Now that we are aiming to have stdlib Python code be a reference

Re: [Python-Dev] [GSoC] Developing a benchmark suite (for Python 3.x)

2011-04-08 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/8/2011 11:32 AM, Anthony Scopatz wrote: an interpreter. For the purposes of benchmarking, the distinction between compiler and interpreter, as some one said above, 'dubious'. I agree. We should be comparing 'Python execution systems'. My impression is that some of what Cython does in te

Re: [Python-Dev] AST Transformation Hooks for Domain Specific Languages

2011-04-08 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/8/2011 1:14 PM, Jon Riehl wrote: I have a mostly functioning front end for 2.X that does these expansions (MyFront), and I'm waiting for a stable Mercurial migration Done and in use over a month. http://hg.python.org/ Further discussion of this idea is on the python-ideas list. (The post

Re: [Python-Dev] Bug? Can't rebind local variables after calling pdb.set_trace()

2011-04-12 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/12/2011 12:17 PM, Alexander Belopolsky wrote: If you find specific versions that are affected by this bug, please report it at bugs.python.org. If Py version >= 2.7 and != 3.0. -- Terry Jan Reedy ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.

Re: [Python-Dev] peps: Update PEP 399 to include comments from python-dev.

2011-04-13 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/13/2011 7:52 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 06:28:58 +0200 Stefan Behnel wrote: I think it would help to point out in the PEP that code that fails to touch the theoretical 100% test coverage bar is not automatically excluded from integration, but needs solid reasoning, rev

Re: [Python-Dev] cpython (merge 3.2 -> default): merge from 3.2.

2011-04-14 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/14/2011 2:53 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: I think you have the wrong issue #; that one has to do with string exceptions. Fix closes Issue1147. Right, wrong issue. Log should be corrected if it has not been. +- Issue #11474: Fix the bug with url2pathname() handling of '/C|/' on

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 399: Pure Python/C Accelerator Module Compatibiilty Requirements

2011-04-16 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/17/2011 1:32 AM, R. David Murray wrote: As Brett said, people do come to depend on the details of the implementation. But IMO the PEP should be clarified to say that the tests we are talking about should be tests *of the published API*. That is, blackbox tests, not whitebox tests. I thin

Re: [Python-Dev] cpython: os.sendfile(): on Linux if offset parameter is passed as NULL we were

2011-04-20 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/20/2011 2:09 PM, Giampaolo Rodolà wrote: No we haven't. "No we haven't" what? Such out-of-context responses exemplify why top-posting is greatly inferior for readers, who vastly outnumber the one writer. If that line had been put where it belongs, right after what it refers to, it would

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] cpython: Issue #11223: Add threading._info() function providing informations about the

2011-04-20 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/20/2011 12:57 PM, Benjamin Peterson wrote: On 4/19/2011 5:59 PM, victor.stinner wrote: Issue #11223: Add threading._info() function providing informations about the thread implementation. How about using a structseq ala sys.float_info or sys.long_info? (In fact, we might want to p

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] cpython: Issue #11223: Add threading._info() function providing informations about the

2011-04-20 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/20/2011 10:11 AM, exar...@twistedmatrix.com wrote: On 01:11 pm, benja...@python.org wrote: It is a big mistake to think that documentation isn't necessary for things just because you don't want application developers to use them. Maintainers benefit from it just as much. Maintainers can

Re: [Python-Dev] Buildbots and faulthandler

2011-04-20 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/20/2011 7:57 AM, Ethan Furman wrote: Victor Stinner wrote: Finally, I'm very happy to see that my faulthandler module was as useful as I expected [...] Congratulations! Nice work. Ditto. Multiple pats on the back. -- Terry Jan Reedy ___ Pyth

Re: [Python-Dev] Syntax quirk

2011-04-25 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/25/2011 1:21 PM, Rob Cliffe wrote: >>> type (3.) >>> 3..__class__ >>> type(3) >>> 3.__class__ File "", line 1 3.__class__ ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax Superficially the last example ought to be legal syntax (and return ). You are a more sophisticated parser than Python, which is l

Re: [Python-Dev] PyObject_RichCompareBool identity shortcut

2011-04-27 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/27/2011 10:53 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote: On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 7:39 AM, Raymond Hettinger >> Identity-implies-equality is necessary so that classes can maintain >> their invariants and so that programmers can reason about their code. [snip] See http://bertrandmeyer.com/2010/02/06/

Re: [Python-Dev] PyObject_RichCompareBool identity shortcut

2011-04-27 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/27/2011 2:41 PM, Glenn Linderman wrote: One issue that I don't fully understand: I know there is only one instance of None in Python, but I'm not sure where to discover whether there is only a single, or whether there can be multiple, instances of NaN or Inf. I am sure there are multiple

Re: [Python-Dev] PyObject_RichCompareBool identity shortcut

2011-04-27 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/27/2011 11:31 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: Currently, Python tries to split the difference: "==" and "!=" follow IEEE754 for NaN, but most other operations involving builtin types rely on the assumption that equality is always reflexive (and IEEE754 be damned). What that means is that "correct"

Re: [Python-Dev] the role of assert in the standard library ?

2011-04-28 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/28/2011 3:54 AM, Tarek Ziadé wrote: Hello I removed some assert calls in distutils some time ago because the package was not behaving correctly when people were using Python with the --optimize flag. In other words, assert became a full part of the code logic and removing them via -O was ch

Re: [Python-Dev] PyObject_RichCompareBool identity shortcut

2011-04-28 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/28/2011 6:11 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 6:30 PM, Alexander Belopolsky wrote: On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 3:57 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: .. It is an interesting question of what "sane invariants" are. Why you consider the invariants that you listed essential while say if

Re: [Python-Dev] Not-a-Number (was PyObject_RichCompareBool identity shortcut)

2011-04-28 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/28/2011 4:40 AM, Mark Shannon wrote: NaN is *not* a number (the clue is in the name). The problem is that the committee itself did not believe or stay consistent with that. In the text of the draft, they apparently refer to Nan as an indefinite, unspecified *number*. Sort of like a rand

Re: [Python-Dev] PyObject_RichCompareBool identity shortcut

2011-04-28 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/28/2011 12:55 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: *If* my proposal gets accepted, there will be a blanket rule that no matter how exotic an type's __eq__ is defined, self.__eq__(self) (i.e., __eq__ called with the same *object* argument) must return True if the type's __eq__ is to be considered wel

Re: [Python-Dev] the role of assert in the standard library ?

2011-04-28 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/28/2011 11:22 AM, s...@pobox.com wrote: Barry> I would agree. Use asserts for "this can't possibly happen Barry> " conditions. Without looking, I suspect that's probably what the author thought he was doing. You wish: to repeat the example from threading: def __init__(se

Re: [Python-Dev] Socket servers in the test suite

2011-04-29 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/29/2011 12:09 PM, Vinay Sajip wrote: BTW, is there a public place somewhere showing stdlib coverage statistics? I looked on the buildbot pages as the likeliest home for them, but perhaps I missed them. http://docs.python.org/devguide/coverage.html has a link to http://coverage.livinglogic

Re: [Python-Dev] Socket servers in the test suite

2011-04-29 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/29/2011 3:11 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: On 4/29/2011 12:09 PM, Vinay Sajip wrote: BTW, is there a public place somewhere showing stdlib coverage statistics? I looked on the buildbot pages as the likeliest home for them, but perhaps I missed them. http://docs.python.org/devguide

Re: [Python-Dev] Not-a-Number (was PyObject_RichCompareBool identity shortcut)

2011-05-01 Thread Terry Reedy
On 5/1/2011 7:27 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: However, I did find Terry's suggestion of using the warnings module to report some of the floating point corner cases that currently silently produce unexpected results to be an interesting one. If those operations issued a FloatWarning, then users could

Re: [Python-Dev] running/stepping python backwards

2011-05-02 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/29/2011 10:13 PM, Adrian Johnston wrote: This may seem like an odd question, but I’m intrigued by the idea of using Python as a data definition language with “undo” support. If I were to try and instrument the Python interpreter to be able to step backwards, would that be an unduly difficul

Re: [Python-Dev] cpython (3.2): Avoid codec spelling issues by just using the utf-8 default.

2011-05-05 Thread Terry Reedy
On 5/5/2011 4:55 PM, Raymond Hettinger wrote: Either way, the code is simpler by just using the default. I thought about this and decided that the purpose of having defaults is so one does not have to always spell it out. So use it. Readers can always look it up and learn. -- Terry Jan Ree

Re: [Python-Dev] more timely detection of unbound locals

2011-05-09 Thread Terry Reedy
On 5/9/2011 9:27 AM, Stefan Behnel wrote: Eli Bendersky, 09.05.2011 14:56: It's a known Python gotcha (*) that the following code: x = 5 def foo(): print(x) x = 1 print(x) foo() Will throw: UnboundLocalError: local variable 'x' referenced before assignment On the usage of 'x' in the *first*

<    12   13   14   15   16   17   18   19   20   21   >