Gisle Aas wrote:
Instead of introducing a sorteddict I would instead suggest that the
future should bring an odict with a sort method; possibly also
keys_sorted and items_sorted methods.
Instead of odict.sorted(), that can be spelled:
sorted(odict) # sort the keys
sorted(odict.values()) #
Glenn Linderman wrote:
FIFOdict ? Yeah, that blows the capitalization scheme, way, way out.
[...]
It is suggestive of queue behavior, and the items are a queue if looked
at from insertion, and traversal perspectives, if I understand
correctly.
Why is this relevant? Insertion and traversal
Leif Walsh wrote:
On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 7:53 AM, wrote:
I actually like StableDict best. When I hear that I think, "ah, the
key order is stable in the face of insertions, unlike a regular dict".
Nor can I at the moment think of an alternative explanation of what a
"StableDict" might be.
Hm
hat means classes instead of magic
constants.
Would there be interest in a filetools module? Replies and discussion to
python-ideas please.
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ore. Konquorer does much the same, except it
can only recover from application crashes, not system crashes. I can't
tell you how many times such features have saved my hide!
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loper to choose the
subclass she wants:
from filetools import SyncOnWrite as open
f = open('mydata.txt', 'w')
f.write(data)
The choice of which subclass gets used is up to the application, but
naturally that might be specified by a user-configurable setting.
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expect the app
to honour whatever setting they put in regarding HDD behaviour, and
Linux users may expect more fine control over application behaviour and
be willing to edit config files to get it.
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is that these are *application* decisions, not *language*
decisions. Python shouldn't be making those decisions, but should be
enabling application developers to make them.
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mplexity of writing the code, and the increased number of paths that
need to be tested, may lead to bugs which cause data loss. This may be
more risky than the original strategy above (whatever that happens to
be.)
Complexity is not cost-free, and insisting that the
Tres, for some reason every time you reply to the list, you send TWO
copies instead of one:
To: python-dev@python.org
CC: Python Dev
Could you please fix that?
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dict,
thus saving one pointer per item, but of course that would rely on a
change on set behaviour.
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f_odd_numbers:
... print alist[Decimal('3')]
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "", line 2, in
TypeError: list indices must be integers
Python does not promise that if x == y, you can use y anywhere you can
use x. Nor should it. Paul'
0.5 on any such
optimizations which change the semantics of a f.p. operation. The only
reason it's -0.5 rather than -1 is that (presumably) anyone who cares
about floating point correctness already knows to never trust the
compiler.
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st name, or that a first name and last name is
sufficient to legally identify them. Those from Spanish and Portuguese
cultures usually have two family names as well as a personal name;
people from Indonesian, Burmese and Malaysian cultures often only use a
single name.
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5335 defines an experimental approach to allowing full
Unicode in mail headers, but surely it's going to be a while before
that's common, let alone standard.
http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5335
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1 month to a day will be defined as adding days_in_month days
(if given), and if not given, adding 31 days but truncating the result
to the last day of the next month.
Thoughts?
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On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:29:11 pm Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Adding one month to 31st January could mean:
>
> 1: raise an exception
> 2: return 28th February (last day of February)
> 3: return 3rd April (1 month = 31 days)
> 4: return 2nd April (1 month = 30 days)
> 5: ret
common expectation, possibly the
most common.
I just asked the missus, who is a non-programmer, what date is one month
after 31st January and her answer was "2rd of March on leap years,
otherwise 3rd of March".
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_
off error:
>>> x = 0.0
>>> step = 0.001
>>> for i in xrange(1000):
... x += step
...
>>> x
1.0007
The solution isn't to add a "goal" to the plus operator, but to fix your
code to use a bet
r convenience when they don't care
about order or duplicates, and (name,value) pairs, or an OrderedDict,
when they do.
I suppose you could force people to write params.items() if params is a
dict, but it seems wrong to force an order on input data when it
doesn't require one.
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thon. You would probably be better off on comp.lang.python or
python-l...@python.org.
However, I believe that the normal way to prevent the generation
of .pyc files is to remove write access to the directory where
the .py files are.
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es to '%g'
> formatting for numbers larger than 1e50.
...
> I propose removing this feature for 3.1
No objections from me. +1
> I propose changing the complex str and repr to behave like the
> float version. That is, repr(4. + 10.j) should be "(4.0 + 10.0j)"
&g
em
uses bytes for filenames?
If I write a piece of Python code:
filename = 'some path/some name'
I might call it a filename, I might think of it as a filename, but it
*isn't*, it's a string in a Python program. It isn't a filename until
of
malformed file names, and this is what happens when you try to work
with them. Please, let's see some code we can run, not more words.
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gt;> import os
>>> os.remove(chr(255))
>>>
Given that chr(255) is a valid filename on my file system, I would
consider it a bug if Python couldn't deal with a file with that name.
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for my
> liking. People who think that the "c" in "ctime"
> means "creation" are still likely to confuse them.
>
> Why not give it a more explicit name, such
> as "st_creationtime"?
Speaking as somebody who t
On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 01:20:53 pm Cameron Simpson wrote:
> I don't think all
> pythons do immediate ref-counted GC.
Jython and IronPython don't. I don't know about PyPy, CLPython, Unladen
Swallow, etc.
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h because they are automatically
produced from py files."
What if your distribution is not a source distribution and only provides
pyc and pyo files?
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nd wondering what the "k" means.
Alpha, beta, kappa version?
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ing a bunch of
mysterious executable files on your system that you don't remember
installing, and then spending a few paranoid hours trying to determine
whether you've stumbled across a root kit or virus or whether they have
a legitimate reason to be there.
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_
ng regular
announcements to the Python community (e.g. on comp.lang.python) will
be a good way to publicise the tool, and if does meet a need, people
will use it, and then, if it's good enough and popular enough and
supported, it may be blessed by inclusion in the standard librar
t modes, but that you are reading from different files.
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r2() # read from mixed stdout and stderr
I don't like a function to toggle between one and the other: that smacks
of relying on a global setting in a bad way. I suppose you could add an
optional argument to ProcessIOWrapper() to select between stdout,
st
nfusing by adding var
parameters, so you could get results back from a procedure and have
side-effects in a function... oh well.)
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Un
str(e) if ValueError as e # Option 1
func(obj) except ValueError as e: str(e) # Option 2
func(obj) except ValueError as e else str(e) # Option 3
Justify your choice please.
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Pyt
functional
tools, and would like to give a +0.5 to compose(). +1 if anyone can
come up with additional use-cases.
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d, Haskell makes compose a built-in operator:
http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Function_composition
It doesn't appear to be standard in Ruby, but it seems to be commonly
requested, and a version is on Facets:
http://facets.rubyforge.org/apidoc/api/core/classes/Proc.html#M000161
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one thing compose() or partial() could do,
whereas a lambda is so general it could do anything. Contrast:
compose(f, g, h)
lambda x: f(g(h(x)))
You need to read virtually the entire lambda before you can
distinguish it from some other arbitrary lambda:
lambda x: f(
o available as a mailing list:
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Good luck.
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already supports ZIP decryption (as it should), are
there any reasons to prefer the current pure-Python implementation over
a faster version?
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, it will most likely be insignificant: for comparison's
sake, urllib2.Request('http://example.com') takes around 150μs on my
machine, and math.sin(1.1) around 90μs. For any procedure which does
non-trivial amounts of work, saving 0.1μs is insignificant, no matter
how many t
such
users, even at the risk of sometimes accepting invalid input. Or is it
to have a module which is strict and forces the user to Do The Right
Thing, even at the cost of being less easy to use?
For what it's worth, it seems to me that it would be better to have a
strict module in the sta
ses an exception.
obj.broadcast() always returns something which is not a broadcast
address.
I would hope the third option isn't being seriously considered! Are
there any reasons to consider the first two?
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adcast_address = my_net[-1]
>
> The only way the network address could match the number of characters
> in the indexing method is if you just called it the network id (i.e.
> my_net.id). For the broadcast address, there is no name that even
> comes close to matching the indexing approa
dr_a in addr_b.network
>
> As the module stands, you write that as:
>
> addr_a in addr_b
>
> I don't think the intent is as clear with the later.
I would find the later completely unclear and disturbing -- how can one
address contain another address?
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;re not suggesting the older notation be unsupported? I would
expect to be able to use a mask like 255.255.255.192 without having to
count bits myself.
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ss in the network
with the network's netmask
4 Host address -- the part of the IP address that is not masked
by the netmask
5 Broadcast address -- the highest address in a IPv4 network
Containers:
6 Network -- a range of IP address
Have I missed anything or got anything wrong?
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silent mentors.
>
> So, while I am not suggesting we build a bondage and discipline
> machine, I am suggesting that partitioning the functionality
> differently will result in a better outcome all round.
As one of those non-expert users, can I give a big T
posed.
Please excuse my skepticism, but I find that hard to believe.
Given the current API, to test if an address is in the same network as
another address, you write:
addr_a in addr_b
Can you please give a use-case where that makes more sense than the
suggested a
to act accordingly).
I do. Please don't throw away useful information.
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er
increase it. To increase it, you have to explicitly write to the file.
http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/java/nio/channels/FileChannel.html#truncate(long)
In any case, some platforms don't allow the file pointer to exceed the
size of the file, so it's not clear that the POSI
m at subscript i -- the term "subscript" in this
context seems to be rare to non-existent except for the error message.
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d only support netmasks of the form
(say) '255.255.255.224' (equivalent to "/27"), and reject those
like "255.3.255.255". It currently accepts them.
Many applications still display netmasks in dot-quad form, and I would
be terribly annoyed if I had to count th
tly the same range of addresses, but they
don't compare equal. I'm not convinced that netw1 should even be
allowed, but if it is, surely it should be turned into canonical form
netw2? E.g. I would expect this:
>>> ipaddr.IPv4Network('192.168.1.1/24')
IPv4Network('1
you explain what benefit there is for allowing the user to create
network objects that don't represent networks? Is there a use-case
where these networks-that-aren't-networks are something other than a
typo? Under what circumstances would I want to specify a network as
192.168.1.1/24 i
dress and netmask, and you've been hostile to the idea. But
it seems to me that your API does exactly that.
I'm not the only person who thinks your API conflates two different
concepts into a single class, and I'm trying to see your side of the
argument. But your h
ne parsing, which I think is important. Assuming argparse is added to
the std lib, I'm -0.5 on deprecating getopt, 0 on deprecating optparse.
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o RFCs. For example, ipaddr accepts '192.168.1.1/24' as a
network definition because this is a very common way of describing an
address + netmask despite the fact that 192.168.1.1 is actually an IP
address on the network 192.168.1.0/24. ..."
which nicely explains why (3) is not used,
of the learning curve. Using it is as simple as:
getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:], "a:b", ["alpha=", "beta"])
Does argparse allow anything as simple as that?
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egatives and don't remember to give credit where
credit is due.
Hopefully we can reach consensus, or at least understanding, on the
remaining issue(s).
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udies into a
single comparison paradoxically shows that treatment B is better!
The mediant is fascinating (to maths geeks at least) and important, and
you need denormalized fractions.
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API. If the external API depends on the caller using %
explicitly, then this approach may not work.)
> 2) A long time later...deprecate str.__mod__;
How long? I hope that's not until I'm dead and buried.
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There's no reason to treat SystemExit as special in this regard.
optparse, for example, calls sys.exit(), which operates by raising
SystemExit. Ordinary SystemExit, not a special module-specific
subclass.
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dditional benefit: they would enable
modules to completely decouple the API they offer from their internal
implementation, without paying a runtime cost on every call, just a
single once-off translation at initialisation time.
In theory, this could mean that modules could, if they choose, conti
tion raises
ValueError. The fact that you are catching an exception implies that
the function might raise that exception. A comment like:
"Catching SystemExit because parse_args() throws SystemExit on parser
errors."
is up them with comments like thi
On Sun, 4 Oct 2009 05:35:04 am André Malo wrote:
> * Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > You don't need a comment warning that you are catching SystemExit
> > because parse_args raises SystemExit, any more than you need a
> > comment saying that you are catching ValueError b
t in case someday in the indefinite future
there comes a need to add extra information to the exception falls foul
of You Ain't Gonna Need It. Keep it simple -- if, someday, such a need
becomes apparent, then subclass.
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ight be hard on a PDA or
mobile phone, but on a PC with a keyboard and mouse?
(I have a vague recollection that Lotus Notes inserts the quoted message
*after* you've done editing your reply, so Notes users should be
forgiven. Not to mention pitied.)
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s the Rule of Least
Astonishment. I thought I understood Python's object model and it's
rules of inheritance, but not only do double-underscore attributes
follow a different rule for inheritance than other attributes, but
__doc__ follo
x = some_set.pop(False)
>
> and am thinking about providing a patch against setobject.c
> (preferring the .get() solution being a stripped down pop()).
-1 on .pop(flag)
+0 on .get()
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Pyt
o 3.1,
and with the overwhelming approval for a moratorium on changes to
built-ins, it is likely to just sit in the tracker, forgotten, until
2013 or later. How likely is it that the patch will still be
applicable?
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ONST 0 (None)
20 RETURN_VALUE
The difference is likely to be this:
for x in s: break
retrieves the first (only) element of the set, then immediately breaks
out of the loop. This is very different from:
for x in s: pass
which retrieves t
ack of get() in sets and frozensets is sounding more and more to me
like the victory of purity over practicality.
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tand that conclusion. According to your tests, your
implementation of get() is as fast as "for x in set: break", and it's
certainly much, much more readable and straightforward.
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On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 11:47:22 pm Nick Coghlan wrote:
> Yuvgoog Greenle wrote:
> > On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
> >> Is there any point? Even if accepted, it's too late to make it
> >> into 3.1, and with the overwhelming approval for
On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 10:26:27 am Ben Finney wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano writes:
> > On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 06:04:12 am Terry Reedy wrote:
> > > fwiw, I think the use case for this is sufficiently rare that it
> > > does not need a separate method just for this purpose.
&g
On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 02:02:48 pm Ben Finney wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano writes:
> > On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 10:26:27 am Ben Finney wrote:
> > > Steven D'Aprano writes:
> > > > The lack of get() in sets and frozensets is sounding more and
> > > > mor
On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 05:04:33 pm Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano writes:
>
> > I'm not being tongue-in-cheek or sarcastic. My question was
> serious -- > if there is a moratorium, is there any reason to bother
> submitting > patches for functi
could be O(1).
(2) The second one is apparently a common need (although I personally
have never needed it), forcing people to re-invent the wheel, sometimes
incorrectly or inefficiently, e.g.:
def get(aset):
for element in aset:
pass
return element
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ufficiently pure. As soon as
you allow iteration over sets, you have allowed retrieval.
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moratorium. How would the addition of `yield from` delay or prevent
people using set methods on mapping views?
If a proposed feature directly competes with a feature in 3.x, then it
might delay usage of the 3.x feature -- but if that were the case, the
proposal would almost certainly be rejected
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:09:14 am Guido van Rossum wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Antoine Pitrou
wrote:
> > Steven D'Aprano pearwood.info> writes:
> >> I don't understand that rationale. Let's take a concrete example.
> >> The new `yield fro
Willi Richart implemented these
behaviours.
http://bugs.python.org/issue7212
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-calls
> semantics is self-evident and non-magical as compared to a straight
> for-loop or next(it)?
I'm going to sit on the fence on that and say "maybe".
> ISTM, that when streams have non-destructive getters with
> self-advancing pointers, they also have a seek() funct
rpose is to
return an arbitrary item each time it is called. If two threads get the
same element, that's not a problem; if one thread misses an element
because another thread grabbed it first, that's not a problem either.
If people prefer a random element instead,
is not a
problem that needs solving.
> > No. Since sets are unordered, there's no way to seek to a specific
> > element.
>
> I think people will realize that in fact *these* sets are ordered and
> they will demand a seek function for various practical purposes.
We can
bviously there is disagreement on whether or not pick() is a
fundamental operation or not. As Raymond points out, it is uncommon in
other languages. But Wikipedia lists it as fundamental, and it is not
just Python users who ask for it:
http://st
On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 10:10:30 am Guido van Rossum wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
> > Since I was the person who decided that "arbitrary" meant "give a
> > different result each time", I should answer that.
> You're
On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 11:54:47 am Greg Ewing wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > I don't know how expensive it is to create a set iterator,
>
> Not expensive enough to justify burdening the set type with
> extra functionality that will be extremely rarely used.
As my
n Unladen Swallow is a fork (sorry - I mean branch) of
> CPython rather than a separate implementation.
I don't know how mature or active it is, so it may not count as either
major or complete, but there's also CLPython:
http://common-lisp.net/projec
rator. If another thread modifies the original set
after the set_iterator is created but before the return, you would get
a mysterious and almost impossible to debug RuntimeError.
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-- that's effectively just 3.2. But Guido has
suggested it could last to 3.3. Could it last beyond that? 3.4? Until
some distant future Python-4000?
At the very least, I believe, any moratorium should have a clear end
date. A clear end date will be a powerful counter to the impressio
ationale for this PEP is to give alternative
implementations the chance to catch up with CPython.
Given your statement that CLPython is quite complete on the language
level, but missing standard library features, how do you think the
moratorium will help
On Sun, 8 Nov 2009 11:14:59 am Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> At the very least, I believe, any moratorium should have a clear end
> date. A clear end date will be a powerful counter to the impression
> that Python the language is moribund. It says, this is an exceptional
> pause, not
ORE_FAST 0 (value)
3 13 LOAD_FAST0 (value)
16 RETURN_VALUE
>> 17 POP_BLOCK
>> 18 LOAD_CONST 0 (None)
21 RETURN_VALUE
Is it possible for another thread to be called between the GET_ITE
somehow gives you the right to demand control over what others say
about your software.
I don't suppose that this rant of yours has something to do with the
comment posted today?
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/spypam/1.0
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__
might not trust a module that has no reviews or ratings.
As a user, I'd be more likely to trust a module with no reviews/ratings
than one where the author disabled reviews/ratings. The first
says "nobody hated it enough to complain", the second one says "the
author is try
On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 04:27:48 am Ludvig Ericson wrote:
> On 12 nov 2009, at 14:38, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 08:44:32 pm Ludvig Ericson wrote:
> >> Why are there comments on PyPI? Moreso, why are there comments
> >> which I cannot control as
g Ericson, had (as of
last night) two comments, one positive, one negative.
This admittedly tiny sample doesn't suggest to me that PyPI is suffering
from the problem of biased ratings.
--
Steven D'Aprano
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Python-Dev mailing list
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can't even agree on the
validity of benchmarks!
This is open source. The power of the bazaar, remember? I'm amazed at
how many people are not just disinterested in, but actively hostile, to
even *useful* comments from users. That's fine. If you, the package
author, don't care
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