On Tue, Sep 07, 2021 at 08:09:33PM -0700, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> I think Nick is on board with bytes.fromint() and no bchr(), and my
> sense of the sentiment here is that this would be an acceptable
> resolution for most folks. Ethan, can you reconsider?
I haven't been completely keeping up wit
On Thu, Sep 09, 2021 at 10:57:26AM +0200, Victor Stinner wrote:
> I propose to rename PEP 467 method bytes.fromint(n) to =>
> bytes.fromchar(n) <= to convert an integer to a single *character*: it
> fails if n is not in the [0; 255] range. "char" comes from
> "character", as "bchr()" means "bytes
On Wed, Sep 08, 2021 at 05:06:08PM -, Brandt Bucher wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > To me, it sounds like should be the opposite of int.from_bytes.
> > >>> int.from_bytes(b'Hello world', 'little')
> > 121404708502361365413651784
On Thu, Sep 09, 2021 at 12:29:46AM +0100, Rob Cliffe via Python-Dev wrote:
> Why not byte() ?
Too easy to typo it as bytes().
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ht
On Tue, Sep 14, 2021 at 12:33:32PM -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> My view of this is:
>
> A. It's not an iterator if it doesn't define `__next__`.
>
> B. It is strongly recommended that iterators also define `__iter__`.
>
> In "standards" language, I think (A) is MUST and (B) is merely OUGHT o
If it helps, I have tons of code that tests for iterators using:
iter(obj) is obj
That has been a documented requirement for the iterator protocol
forever. Its in the PEP.
"A class that wants to be an iterator should implement two methods: a
next() method that behaves as described above, a
On Tue, Sep 14, 2021 at 09:38:38PM -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> > I don't know what I would call an object that only has __next__,
> > apart from "broken" :-(
> >
>
> It's still an iterator, since it duck-types in most cases where an iterator
> is required (notably "for", which is the primary
On Tue, Sep 14, 2021 at 04:50:05PM -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> TBH I don't think there is an *actual* problem here. I think it's just
> about choosing the right wording for the glossary (which IMO does not have
> status as a source of truth anyway).
+1
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On Wed, Sep 15, 2021 at 08:57:58AM -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote:
[...]
> Yes, we all understand that. The reason I invoked "duck typing" is that as
> long as you don't use the iterator in a situation where iter() is called on
> it, it works fine. Just like a class with a readline() method works f
On Wed, Sep 15, 2021 at 04:01:31PM -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> Steven's class A is the kind of class a custom sequence might return from
> its __iter__ method. E.g.
>
> class S:
> def __iter__(self):
> return A()
Correct, where A itself has a `__next__` method but no `__iter__`
On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 01:14:18AM +0200, jack.jan...@cwi.nl wrote:
> I’m getting increasingly worried about the future of Python,
That Python will become even more popular?
TIOBE: second place, 0.16% below C.
PYPL: first place, 12.3% above Java.
RedMonk: equal second with Java.
https://www.t
On Sun, Oct 03, 2021 at 04:47:57PM +0100, Irit Katriel via Python-Dev wrote:
> We wonder if people have a view on which of the following is clearer/better:
>
> 1. except *E as e: // except *(E1, E2) as e:
That looks like you're unpacking the tuple (E1, E2), and that's just
misleading and wrong
On Sun, Oct 03, 2021 at 11:34:55AM -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> I also think that the bar should be pretty high before we reopen the
> *syntax* -- the PEP was approved without anyone (neither the SC, nor
> Nathaniel, nor anyone else) providing any feedback on the use of 'except
> *'. So I thin
On Mon, Oct 04, 2021 at 09:03:54AM -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> The question was about which style to *recommend* (a la PEP-8).
Quote:
"At the moment * is a separate token so both are allowed, but we could
change that (e.g., make except* a token)"
If that is mistaken, that's fine, no harm d
On Mon, Oct 04, 2021 at 07:31:10PM +0100, Steve Dower wrote:
> To me, the "*name" looks most similar to how we write "*args" in a
> function definition, so I'd go for that.
That's exactly why we *shouldn't* go for that option. That is going to
confuse a lot of people that it is sequence unpackin
On Tue, Oct 05, 2021 at 11:17:25AM -0400, Calvin Spealman wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 5, 2021 at 10:51 AM Patrick Reader <_...@pxeger.com> wrote:
>
> > On 03/10/2021 16:47, Irit Katriel via Python-Dev wrote:
> >
> > 1. except *E as e: // except *(E1, E2) as e:
> > 2. except* E as e: // except* (E1, E
Hi Sam,
On Thu, Oct 07, 2021 at 03:52:56PM -0400, Sam Gross wrote:
> I've been working on changes to CPython to allow it to run without the
> global interpreter lock. I'd like to share a working proof-of-concept that
> can run without the GIL.
Getting Python to run without the GIL has never been
e-Python implementation of a Python bytecode execution
virtual machine", and SPARK, which has been stuck in version 0.7 pre-alpha
for years. I am astonished that you think PyPy is too immature or niche for
this list.
http://compilers.pydata.org/
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t;some-package-manager install spam.py".
For the avoidance of doubt, this is *not* a veiled request for "everything"
to be in the stdlib, since that is impractical and stupid, just a reminder
that the stdlib is still important and that no matter how easy packaging
becomes, it will
cases which are not impacted by
your security rules. Bugfix releases shouldn't break those use cases,
which means the security features should be mostly opt-in for 2.7 and
3.3.
I think that is reasonable. Insecure by default or not, code should not
suddenly stop working becau
ribution clause from Apache 2.0
license
If you are correct, that may be a real issue that needs to be resolved. If this
issue has been discussed before, can you point me to a previous discussion
please?
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job.
In any case, until Anatoly replies with details, this counts as nothing
more than an unsubstantiated, vague accusation. Over to you Anatoly...
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'm not going to start acting
differently towards others. I view legally covering our ass by having
someone fill in a form is worth the potential loss of some contribution in
the grand scheme of things.
Pardon my ignorance, but how does a CLA protect us i
27;t even instantiate the subclass, that's a
pretty major violation for no apparent benefit :-)
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On 19/03/13 00:50, Neal Becker wrote:
def F(x):
return x
x = 2
F(x) = 3
F(x) = 3
SyntaxError: can't assign to function call
Do we really need this restriction? There do exist other languages without it.
What meaning would you give to "F(x) = 3", and wh
reverse the order of the arg, val in any such hypothetical
__setcall__, so as to support functions with zero or more arguments:
f(*args, **kwargs) = val <=> f.__setcall__(val, *args, **kwargs)
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of a beginner on the tu...@python.org mailing list being utterly
confused by Python's Unicode handling because the Windows command prompt is
unable to print Unicode strings.
Thanks Terry.
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e
shouldn't care whether the type of the instance is the superclass or subclass, at least
not in general.)
-1 on forcing __int__, __str__, __float__ etc. to return instances of the
built-in types.
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n = int(something)
assert type(n) is int
I haven't cared about checking type identity since "Unifying types and classes"
way back in Python 2.2, and I don't see why we should enforce a more restrictive rule now.
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Pytho
27;m always game to learn something. Challenge accepted.
# Force a string subclass s to a built-in string.
''.join(s)
# Force an int subclass n to a built-in int.
(0).__add__(n)
# And similarly for float subclass.
0.0.__add__(x)
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aren't constant, and can be rebound by anything, but others
apparently don't care. You hate the idea that int() might return an instance of
a subclass, and I think that's a feature, not a bug.
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tee to return a
builtin int. I thought it already did make that guarantee.
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By memory, which may not be entirely accurate.]
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en or eight years, and didn't migrate to
Python 2 until 2.3. Why? Because that's what came standard on my Linux
distro of choice.
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Un
On 08/04/13 07:41, Barry Warsaw wrote:
I talked to someone at Pycon who was still using Python 1.5, which is probably
older than some of the people on this list ;).
Awesome! :-)
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http
next time. I've done it this time.
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e.g. Colours.red <
Insects.ant) then I think TypeError is appropriate.
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hbyts4t%28v=vs.80%29.aspx
And two examples from asm-generic/errno.h:
#define EWOULDBLOCK EAGAIN /* Operation would block */
#define EDEADLOCK EDEADLK
What's the justification for this restriction? I have looked in the PEP, and
didn
to contribute to
the distribution
As someone who cannot in good faith sign the CLA, that characterisation
is far from accurate: I would very much like to contribute to the Python
distribution, and so have not decided as you describe.
Could you explain, briefly, why you cannot sign
On 21/04/13 05:42, Barry Warsaw wrote:
On Apr 13, 2013, at 12:51 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
I think that's too strong a restriction. I would expect to be able to do this:
class Insect(Enum):
wsap = 1 # Oops, needed for backward compatibility, do not remove.
wasp = 1 #
= Insect.wasp
Hmmm, I must have missed this.
That satisfies my use-cases. Objection withdrawn.
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t is no burden to have to import a module and call an external function
for some transformations, why have encode and decode methods at all?
If you haven't read this, you should:
http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2012/8/11/codec-confusion/
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on.
On the other hand, NoneType(x) for any other x ought to fail.
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thing or a bad thing, I leave up to others to decide...
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m if you believe that subclassing == taxonomy hierarchy. It isn't.
http://pyvideo.org/video/879/the-art-of-subclassing
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lf.original = obj
class Example(metaclass=MetaEnum):
red = 1
blue = 2
green = lambda: 'good lord, even functions can be enums!'
def __init__(self, count=3):
self.count = count
food = skip('spam')
@skip
def spam(self):
return self.coun
2013-April/125641.html
Even if the Enum class doesn't support this feature, I ask that it be
written in such a way that a subclass could add it (i.e. please expose
a public method for deciding what to exclude).
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On 29/04/13 10:29, Ethan Furman wrote:
On 04/28/2013 04:37 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
- should an enum item be selectable via __call__ instead of __getitem__
(i.e. Seasons(3) is AUTUMN)
Does anyone know why this is even an issu
carry over to actual
enums. Should I reset my thinking and use == with flufl.enums?
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tee:
isinstance(Color.red, Color) # True, possibly using __instancecheck__
Since red is not defined by MoreColor, there's no reason to expect that
it will be a MoreColor instance. As far as I understand it, there is no
guarantee that
isinstance(MoreColor.red, MoreColor)
will be true,
should be prohibited. I objected, and
Nick pointed out that although declaring two enums with the same value inside
the class is prohibited, aliases are supported by adding them from the outside:
class Color(Enum):
red = 1
blue = 2
Color.green = Color.red
which satisfies me.
the base type and not vice
versa."
Confusing for who, and why?
You're going to confuse *somebody* no matter what you do. Either:
- confuse people who try to subclass enums, and can't; or
- confuse people who try to subclass enums, and can, but then get confused by
the result.
and Kotlin allow subclassing enums in
exactly the way we're talking about.
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Mailman for many years, and I would like to hear
Barry's opinion on this.
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erent from having a list [1, 'really big country',
(8273.199, 517)]. Lists can deal with it, but if you pass a list of
arbitrary types to something that expects a list of ints, it will
complain.
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>
> FWIW, I picked this up when I was looking at writing a simple encoding
> converter, and I wanted to add a flag to list what conversions were
> supported.
This may be of help:
http://hg.python.org/releasing/3.3.1/file/tip/Tools/uni
ented behaviour is completely different from the documented
behaviour. What gives?
Given the vast number of words written about enum values being instances
of the enum class, I'm surprised that your proto-PEP doesn't seem to
mention one word about that. All it says is that enum values are
On 02/05/13 01:09, Ethan Furman wrote:
New repo to avoid confusion:
https://bitbucket.org/stoneleaf/ref435
Apparently I have to log in before I can even see the repo.
Not going to happen.
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ed to work, and the documentation warns against it.
http://docs.python.org/3/library/functions.html#locals
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to add or
extend methods, no different to any other class.
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t duplicates something in Color. flag_colors
will now contain both duplicates, since enum values from different enums never
compare equal, but that's probably not what you want.
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eeds to write to locals(), they can target an implementation that
provides that feature.
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ople don't like the
special attribute scheme).
The problem is that this is not an expression, it is a statement. The advantage
of the convenience function is not just that it is shorter, but that it is an
expression.
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f file associations.
Many official Microsoft file extensions are four or more letters, e.g. docx. I
don't see any value in making long-lasting decisions on file extensions based
on (transient?) bugs that aren't our responsibility.
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On 04/05/13 15:13, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
Steven D'Aprano writes:
> > Rather than risk obscure bugs, I would suggest restricting the extensions
> > to 3 characters. For the “Windowed Python ZIP Applications” case, could we
> > use .pzw as the extension instead
statement, not an expression.
As for pickling, the usual restrictions on pickling apply. It's not like the
functional API creates new and unexpected restrictions.
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ility with (e.g.) C enums is an important use-case for these, and in
that case you likely will care about the actual value.
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or: Can't pickle : attribute lookup
__main__.Foo failed
I don't think it is unreasonable to chalk it up to a limitation of pickle, and
say that unless you can meet certain conditions, you won't be able to pickle
your instance.
Either way, approval of PEP 435 should
s, it is not the literal BNF grammar
used by the compiler to compile Python's parser. For brevity and simplicity, some
definitions may be simplified.
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t the object's repr."
Bad: "Doctests look at an object's repr, unless the object is an Enum, when it will
look at the enum's value."
If I want a test that checks the enum's value, then I will write a doctest that
explicit
er to use those new
features; even with older Python's via unittest2 on pypi.
And that's great, it really is, I'm not being sarcastic. But unit testing is
not in competition to doc testing, they are complimentary, not alternatives. If
you're not using both, then you
7;t
offer me facilities to edit interactive prompt session snippets.
Your text editor doesn't allow you to edit text? Even Notepad allows that!
Seriously, what editor are you using that doesn't allow you to edit pasted
snippets?
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vant details don't help,
they hinder, and I suggest that the KeyError is irrelevant.
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On 20/05/13 23:38, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
On Mon, 20 May 2013 23:32:10 +1000
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On 20/05/13 20:45, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
On Sat, 18 May 2013 23:41:59 -0700
Raymond Hettinger wrote:
We should continue to encourage users to make thorough unit tests
and to leave doc
, providing the
cause of failure is still appreciated by the user who's trying to figure out
what, exactly, went wrong.
For the record, that is the implementation used in Python 3.3.0rc3, so "at some
point" is actually very recently.
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, anyone with the conceit that their
library or module may someday be in the standard library cannot afford to use
annotations at all.
So I'm tentatively +1 on allowing the annotation form in addition to the
decorator argument form.
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llowing multiple types to be registered in one call.
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On 24/05/13 15:09, Nick Coghlan wrote:
On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
I don't think that they will. Being able to register multiple types with a
single call reads very naturally to me, while multiple decorators still
looks weird. Even after many years of seei
rator, taking a type paramater
Typo: /s/paramater/parameter/
and decorating a function implementing the operation for that type."""
Otherwise, +1 on the doc changes suggested.
Thanks PJ and Łukasz for seeing this one through.
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the invalid character, and I hope that we all agree that it is, then the binascii.Error
message should explicitly show that character, rather than rely on the implementation
implicitly showing it as a side-effect.
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enerics? :-)
I'm vaguely leaning towards @singledispatch and @singledispatch.method for the
colour of this bike shed.
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:
... def spam(self):
... pass
...
py> X.spam
py> X().spam
>
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t __main__
__main__.Fruit = Fruit
although that's the sort of thing that makes me think it's time to turn this
into a unittest rather than a doctest.
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additional work as a result.
It's not just established Python implementations. A pure-python standard
library makes a good foundation for any future implementations.
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very implementation. Even if the re-implementations are individually
trivial, it's still a cost for no real gain. Keeping the pure Python
implementation also lowers the bar for adding new functions in the future, and
for documentation changes.
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to CPython, but just
> because it becomes really hard to choose a random letter to add a new
> option... I prefer long options, but Python only supports the long
> option --help.
Is that a policy though? Couldn't Python support long options, or is it
prohibited?
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On 26/06/13 08:44, Victor Stinner wrote:
And then I ran "make distclean"...
Victor, you're a cruel, cruel man. You've told us everything except the
solution to the mystery.
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Python
cepted for the
std lib unless they have a leading underscore. I suppose for backwards
compatibility reasons, we probably can't go through the std lib and rename
private modules to make it clear they are private, but we don't have to accept
new
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 10:30:02AM +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> On 15 July 2013 09:48, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > On 14/07/13 21:09, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> >
> >> Slight adjustment to the proposed wording to ensure completely
> >> undocumented
&g
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 10:01:17AM +1000, Cameron Simpson wrote:
> On 15Jul2013 09:48, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> | I'd go further, and say that no more private modules should be
> | accepted for the std lib unless they have a leading underscore. I
> | suppose for backwards
it only ever calls the
container:
x in y => y.__contains__(x)
but never x.__contained_by__(y)
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ve better things to do than PEP9-ify old, working, stable code, but if
you want to provide regression tests and a working patch, I'll let you do so" might be an even
better one :-)
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es with single-underscore methods, which I take as
private. It also has a function simplegeneric, which is undocumented and not listed in
__all__. In in the absence of even a comment saying "Don't use this", I take it
as an oversight, not policy tha
dard library* to use explicit
relative imports, and that's what PEP 8 is supposed to cover, right? :)
If a third-party package uses relative imports, are you suggesting that those
rel imports should be turned into absolute imports as a precondition of it
being moved into the std lib?
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icode strings
are 8-bit, as they can be with Python 3.3's flexible string format. I prefer to stick to
Unicode or text string, versus byte string.
Pedants who point out that "byte" does not necessarily mean 8-bits, and
therefore we should talk about octets, will be slapped w
d recommends "10 to 50 volts".
Optimistically, I think it would probably be safe[1] to replace " -- " or " --- " in text
with "\N{THIN SPACE}\N{EM DASH}\N{THIN SPACE}" (or \N{HAIR SPACE} if you prefer) without human
review, but for any other changes, I w
an the em-dash and is used for quotations
in some European languages;
– swung dash ⁓ is normally found in dictionaries (paper, not Python) to stand
in for the word being defined.
But of course different fonts follow these rules to a greater or lesser degree.
--
Steven
_
than ask here.
Regards,
--
Steven
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se if you keep the editor relatively
narrow, since now you have a few lines that require horizontal scrolling, which
is awful, or line-wrapping, neither of which are palatable.
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Steven
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imports, but became
substantially more :)
Before this entire thread be buried in a mountain of controversy over the 79-99
line length issue, let me say thanks Nick and the others for your work on this.
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Steven
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