On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 06:32:53 pm Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano writes:
> > On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 04:27:40 pm Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> > > FWIW, I meant 10 != not not 10.
> > >
> > >>> 10 != not not 10
>
On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 08:13:22 am Guido van Rossum wrote:
> > Tests in the standard distribution which use the deprecated
> > style will need to be converted. Steven d'Aprano claims this is
> > nontrivial (and thus error- prone) in some cases. I haven't seen
> &g
uite midway in weight between
doctests and unittest, so I will check it out.
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principle. E.g. the vector cross product:
(a*b)*c != a*(b*c) in general.
I think a product() function that multiplies the arguments from left to
right would be useful. But it won't solve the problems that people want
custom operators to solve. I'm not even sure if it will solve the
prob
ompiler, not for writing Python programs.
I'll save you some time: when you post to comp.lang.python, you should
post the actual error message you get, and the code that fails.
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er people, but I often compare floats with ints.
Here's a contrived example:
x = some_float()
if x == -1:
return -2
else:
return (x**2-1)/(x+1)
I suppose it's no hardship to start writing float literals instead of
int literals, if needed.
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On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 11:30 AM, Barry Warsaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Aug 25, 2008, at 1:13 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
>> Several people at Google seem to have independently discovered that
>> despite all of the platform-independent goodness in subprocess.py, you
>> still need to be pla
d(parrot)
>>> parrot.__file__
'parrot.pyc'
I don't think M.__file__ should lie and say it was loaded from a file
that it wasn't loaded from. It's useful to be able to look at a module
and see what file it was actually loaded from.
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On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 01:38:14 pm Guido van Rossum wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 6:21 PM, Steven D'Aprano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
...
> > I don't think M.__file__ should lie and say it was loaded from a
> > file that it wasn't loaded from. It's usef
better written as f = function
And yet threading.py has at least six examples just like that. What am I
missing?
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On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:50:45 am Greg Ewing wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > I was confused about the role of commas, and totally gobsmacked
> > when I discovered that commas make tuples everywhere except when
> > following an except statement.
>
> Um... you'
On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 6:07 AM, Victor Stinner
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The default behaviour should be to use unicode and raise an error if
> conversion to unicode fails. It should also be possible to use bytes using
> bytes arguments and optional arguments (for getcwd).
>
> - listdir(unicod
to easily see all such hidden files if you ask.
(Almost all. Windows has "superhidden" files that remain hidden even
when the user asks to see hidden files, all the better to hide malware.
But that's a rant for another list.)
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__
n Unix).
Sorry, maybe I'm just being thick here, but I don't understand how that
is possible. On the physical disk, each Windows file name must be
represented by a byte string, yes? So how is it possible that there are
Windows files with names that can't be represented as a byte
On Wed, 1 Oct 2008 09:21:37 am you wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 4:08 PM, Steven D'Aprano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> > On Wed, 1 Oct 2008 07:40:01 am Martin v. Löwis wrote:
> >> >> On Windows, we might reject bytes filenames for all file
> >> &
very much for your hard work and for making
such a great language. Cheers!
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For subclassing exceptions:
class MyTypeError(TypeError):
pass
* As a placeholder for code I haven't written yet.
* As a no-op used in, e.g. the timeit module.
And probably a few other places as well.
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significant.
>>> min(Timer('d.foo', s).repeat())
1.9228429794311523
>>> min(Timer('d2.foo', s).repeat())
2.1040639877319336
>>> min(Timer('d.bar', s).repeat())
0.68272304534912109
>>> min(Timer('d2.bar', s).repeat())
0.4194
ization
> that we could have a look at
Even though the PEP has been rejected, I do like the idea of optimising
chains of if...elif:
http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0275/
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the three-line idiom: the
three-liner is short, simple, obvious, readable and explicit, but your
solution would be even shorter, more readable, and more explicit. I
think it loses on the obvious and possibly on simple. The advantage is
you've already done the work rather than expecting som
s the feature is required by
> Python's internal import system.
That may very well be true, but I don't know why you're dumping on me.
It wasn't my suggestion to change __import__. I merely said I could see
some advantages to it. I spent most of my post telling the OP wh
On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 05:20:01 am Alex Martelli wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 9:47 AM, Steven D'Aprano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> > On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 03:30:49 am Christian Heimes wrote:
> > ...
> >
> >> May I point you to the two leading unders
On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 01:56:00 pm Nick Coghlan wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > Should this be reported as a documentation bug? Given the new
> > import hooks, would it be fair to say that the main reason for
> > __import__ is to use it to import a module whose name is
ault, if a filename in path is not a valid string, an exception is
raised, with the guilty file name given in bytes as an attribute of the
exception. If silence_errors is true, the invalid file names are
silently skipped.
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r a decade now, and the first third
party library I've downloaded and used was Pyparsing a month or two
ago. I'll be the first to admit that my programs tend to be on the
small size, but they're useful to me. The lack of third party libraries
to Python 3 is
is quite reasonable to expect applications to deal with undisplayable
filenames: displaying the name and opening the file are orthogonal
concepts, although I accept that command-line interfaces will have
difficulty with file names that can't be typed
becomes vanishingly
trivial when you factor in that most of the time spent programming is
not typing but thinking, testing, debugging, etc.
Doing the same calculation for BaseHTTPServer.py and SimpleHTTPServer.py
in the standard library, I get 1.9% and 2.0% respectively.
> This
> latin-1.
For what it's worth, Konquorer 3.5 displays the two files as
(1/2)(n+tilde).html
(A+caret)(1/2)(A+tilde)(plusminus).html
It doesn't seem to have any trouble opening either of them.
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ware.
Even if this is a Will Not Fix, I'd be curious if anyone else can
reproduce the problem.
Hope this is helpful,
Steven.
> -Original Message-
> From: python-dev-bounces+kristjan=ccpgames@python.org
> [mailto:python-dev-bounces+kristjan=ccpgames@python.org] On
>
choose other mechanisms for speeding up the
> exit process in various (less clean) ways, if they have a need for
> this.
>
> BTW: Rather than using a huge in-memory dict, I'd suggest to either
> use an on-disk dictionary such as the ones found in mxBeeBase or
> a database.
The
On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 06:45:11 am Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano pearwood.info> writes:
> > In November 2007, a similar problem was reported on the
> > comp.lang.python newsgroup. 370MB was large enough to demonstrate
> > the problem. I don't know if a
should be two different
functions rather than one function with a switch. I think
os.path.commonprefix should only operate on path components, and if
character-by-character prefix matching on general strings is useful,
then it should be a string method.
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_
On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 7:10 AM, Gerald Britton
wrote:
> PEP: 3142
> Title: Add a "while" clause to generator expressions
[snip]
> numbers in that range. Allowing for a "while" clause would allow
> the redundant tests to be short-circuited:
>
> g = (n for n in range(100) while n*n < 50)
>
gladly give up that
correspondence (which I don't find that great) in order to simplify
exiting a generator expression early.
So I like the proposed change. I find it elegant and very Pythonic. +1
for me.
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On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 03:10:24 pm Terry Reedy wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
...
> > In a generator expression, we have:
> >
> > yielded-expr for-clause if-clause
> >
> > while the corresponding nested statements are:
> >
> > for-clause if
On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 12:06 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
>> import random
>> print(random.choice('svn', 'bzr', 'hg', 'git'))
>
> Nice! So it's bzr, as my machine just told me (after adding
> the square brackets).
Wow, that decision was a lot easier than I thought it would be. ;-)
Steve
ot that difficult to create a generator to yield all
the combinations:
(comb for k in ks for comb in itertools.combinations(seq, k))
I'm with Nick that this would make a good example for the documentation.
I don't object to combinations growing the extra functionality, but if
it does, peo
On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 10:29 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
> Notice that the determination of the specific encoding used is fairly
> elaborate:
> - if IO is to a terminal, Python tries to determine the encoding of
> the terminal. This is mostly relevant for Windows (which uses,
> by default, the
nice if
there was a standard way of spelling it. So I'm +0.5 on Aahz's
suggestion of __pprint__.
In my ideal world, __pprint__ should allow (but not require) extra
arguments, so that one can do something like the following:
pprint(binarytree) # sensible defaults
pprint(binarytree,
Eric Smith wrote:
Terry Reedy wrote:
Ron Adam wrote:
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Michael Foord wrote:
Don't we have a pretty-print API - and isn't it spelled __str__ ?
Not really. If it were as simple as calling str(obj), there would be
no need for the pprint module.
I agr
On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 10:25 AM, Brett Cannon wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 05:35, Hrvoje Niksic wrote:
>> Andrew Bennetts wrote:
>>>
>>> A patch to add operator.caller(*args, **kwargs) may be a good idea. Your
>>> example would then be:
>>>
>>>map(operator.caller(), lst)
>>
>> Regarding t
On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 10:50 AM, Brett Cannon wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 10:43, Steven Bethard wrote:
>> Not sure I follow you here. It's not the __init__ that allows you to
>> do ``x()``, it's the fact that the class declares a __call__, right?
>>
>>
tring on commas, you can't say
# Won't work when called:
split_comma = partial(str.split, sep = ',')
and to create a 'log to base 10' function, you can't say
# Won't work when called:
log_10 = partial(math.log, base = 10.0)
becau
any dictionary or
spell checker I've ever used).
(Nor do we write filingsystem, governmentsystem, politicalsystem or
schoolsystem. This is English, not German.)
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as obsolete with little detailed discussion of the differences:
http://docs.python.org/release/1.5/lib/node69.html#SECTION00530
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Ben Finney wrote:
Steven D'Aprano writes:
Ben Finney wrote:
"M.-A. Lemburg" writes:
No, you tell them: "If you want Unicode 6 semantics, use regex, if
you're fine with Unicode 2.0/3.0 semantics, use re".
What do we say, then, to those who are unaware of t
ld --be introduced without a
corresponding future_statement.
I wasn't around for the move from 1.4 regex to 1.5 re, so I don't know
what was done poorly last time. But I can't see why we should treat
regular expressions so differently from (sa
ry from a couple of timeit
runs on short-ish lists.
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. It may be an optional part for at least
one release, but removing it again will require the same deprecation
process as removing any other language feature (see PEP 5 for more details).
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ipedia.org/wiki/Diacritic#Languages_with_letters_containing_diacritics
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k.title()
'Aaaa Bbbb'
>>> k[0].swapcase()+k[1:].lower()
'Aaaa '
If k is uppercase, previous
.upper() is redundant. If k is mixed case, code may have problems.
"May" have problems?
pERSONNALLY, i THINK THAT A SWAPCASE COMMAND IS ESSEN
org/pipermail/python-dev/2010-December/106650.html
I can't exactly defend the existence of swapcase, it does seem to be a
fairly specialised function. But given that it exists, I'm -0.5 on
removal on the basis of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
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oint-range/
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Guido van Rossum wrote:
On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 6:36 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Ethan Furman wrote:
A question came up on StackOverflow about range objects and floating point
numbers. I thought about writing an frange that did for floats what range
does for ints,
For what it&#x
Guido van Rossum wrote:
On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 7:13 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
http://code.activestate.com/recipes/577068-floating-point-range/
I notice that your examples carefully skirt around the rounding issues.
I also carefully *didn't* claim that it made rounding issues
-shedding: I don't like the name linspace.
We've gone 20 years without a floating point range in Python. I think we
should give people a bit of time to pay around with alternative APIs
rather than just grab the first one that comes along.
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my second attempt, which offers both count/start/end and
count/start/step APIs:
http://code.activestate.com/recipes/577881-equally-spaced-floats-part-2/
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that would be great, but I think that a
daterange() function in the datetime module would be more appropriate.
Who is going to think to import math if you want a range of dates?
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into the
round hole of integer counts. We should not try to force this float
range to use the same API as builtin range.
(In hindsight, it is a shame that range is called "range" instead of
"count". itertools got the name right.)
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_
es is useful:
"IOError is allowed, but any other exception is a bug."
makes perfect sense. assertNotRaises doesn't seem sensible or useful to me:
"IOError is a failed test, but any other exception is a bug."
What's the point? When would you use that?
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__
qual, and avoid making a potentially
expensive copy?
I note that if count is zero, the source string is returned unchanged:
>>> t = s.replace('a', 'b', 0)
>>> t is s
True
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ng as root *badly*.
[1] If not, that will come as a mighty big surprise to Red Hat, among
others, who use Python for system tools run as root.
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grow a macro-benchmark tool too? I find myself
often using timeit to time macro-benchmarks simply because it's more
convenient at the interactive interpreter than the alternatives.
Something like this idea perhaps?
http://preshing.com/20110924/timing-your-code-us
minor releases.
Unless there is a good reason to actively remove an API, it should stay as
long as possible. "I don't like this and it should go" is not a good reason,
nor is "but there's a better way you should use"
Guido van Rossum wrote:
Point of order (repeated), please move this thread to python-ideas.
Isn't that cruel to the people reading python-ideas?
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er to use, I'm actively against it. Otherwise I'm just mildly
"meh, why bother?".
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stead of a box. Depending on the
typeface, others might see a full box, an empty box, a diamond with a question
mark in it, nothing at all, or some other glyph.
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Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Greg Ewing wrote:
Matt Joiner wrote:
ಠ_ಠ
What's up with these ?_? messages?
I think that, depending on the typeface you view it with, it is supposed
to be some sort of smiley: two big wide open square eyes with tightly
pursed lips. Presumably it is supp
then apps can choose
their own by subclassing dict.
Responsibility for doing the right thing falls onto the library author, rather
than Python itself. Some people may consider that a minus.
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may not have /dev/urandom, we need a PRNG in the
core, too. I therefore propose to move the Mersenne twister from
randommodule.c into the core, too.
Mersenne twister is not suitable for cryptography.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mersenne_twister
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of a flag in the sys
module to verify the behaviour, I'd want to see for myself that hash
collisions are no longer predictable.
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Benjamin Peterson wrote:
2012/1/5 Nick Coghlan :
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 10:07 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Surely the way to verify the behaviour is to run this from the shell:
python -c print(hash("abcde"))
twice, and see that the calls return different values. (Or have I
mi
Benjamin Peterson wrote:
2012/1/5 Steven D'Aprano :
[...]
There's nothing obscure about directly testing the hash. That's about as far
from obscure as it is possible to get: you are directly testing the presence
of a feature by testing the feature.
It's obscure because h
Glenn Linderman wrote:
On 1/5/2012 5:52 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
At some point, presuming that there is no speed penalty, the behaviour
will surely become not just enabled by default but mandatory. Python
has never promised that hashes must be predictable or consistent, so
apart
Victor Stinner wrote:
-if os.name in ('nt', 'os2'):
+if os.name in ('nt'):
This change is wrong: it should be os.name == 'nt'.
Or possibly os.name in ('nt', ) (note the comma).
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as much of an improvement.
+1 on random seeding. Default to on in 3.3+ and default to off in older
versions, which allows people to avoid breaking their code until they're ready
for it to be broken.
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. Given that developers are unlikely
to ever see 1000 collisions by accident, or even realise that it could happen,
I don't expect that many people will do that -- until they personally get bitten.
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east one library (or
so I'm told):
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2012-January/1286535.html
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python wrote:
jbk
[snip 560+ lines of quoted text]
Please delete irrelevant text when replying to digests, and replace the
subject line with a meaningful subject.
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person will decrease even as the total work
load increases. I don't think that's a safe bet.
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experience they have with
Python.
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nt over the application hanging
indefinitely, but I'd hardly call it a fix.
Ruby uses randomized hashes. Are there any other languages with a dict or
mapping class that raises on too many exceptions?
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ing HamError as a SpamError instead.
(It's not actually a re-raise as the traceback will point to a different line
of code, but it's close enough.)
I'd prefer "raise SpamError from None", but I understand that this ca
yError for "you have
reached a limit on collisions"? It has nothing to do with memory. Using
MemoryError for something which isn't a memory error is ugly.
How about RuntimeError?
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MAXCOLLISIONS either be configureable or just choose a random count
between M and N, say 700 and 999.
Have I missed something? Why wouldn't the attacker simply target 1000
collisions, and if the collision triggers at 700 instead of 1000, that's a bonus?
Guido van Rossum wrote:
It should derive from BaseException.
RuntimeError meets that requirement, and it is an existing exception so there
are no issues with introducing a new built-in exception to a point release.
py> issubclass(RuntimeError, BaseException)
True
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Ethan Furman wrote:
The question I have at the moment is: should `raise as` be an error if
no exception is currently being handled?
I think so.
"raise as Spam" essentially means "raise Spam with the context set to None".
That's actually only useful if the context otherwise wouldn't be None,
time it is used, otherwise the pseudorandom number generator using it
just returns the same value each time. Should we be talking about a salt
rather than a seed?
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__preview__ does not constitute acceptance of its API".
(On the other hand, if __preview__ becomes used in the future for library
authors to fob-off criticism for 18 months in the hope it will just be
forgotten, then this will be a bad thing.)
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may have subtle, or major, API differences,
how do you use it?
try:
result = thing.foo(a, b, c) + thing.bar(x)
except AttributeError:
# Must be the preview version
result = thing.foobar(a, c, b, x)
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only slightly better.
Speaking for everyone that wants context suppression (using Steven
D'Aprano's words): chained exceptions expose details to the caller
that are
irrelevant implementation details.
Especially if the users are non-programmer app users.
Or beginner programmers, e
n the hash stability.
Do you have the expectation that it will become on by default in some future
release?
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Michael Foord wrote:
On 27/01/2012 20:48, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Eli Bendersky wrote:
try:
from __preview__ import thing
except ImportError:
import thing
So no need to target a very specific version of Python.
Yep, this is what I had in mind. And it appeared too trivial to pla
= 1
b.ham = 2
how can a.__dict__ and b.__dict__ share key arrays? I've tried reading the
source, but I'm afraid I don't understand it well enough to make sense of it.
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ave to read the
docs to find out they're preview.
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Terry Reedy wrote:
On 2/3/2012 6:18 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Now we're talking about having to add __preview__ into that mix too?
As I understand it, Guido nixed that idea. (Or did I imagine that?)
No, you are right, discussion should cease. It is already marked
'rejec
Paul Moore wrote:
On 4 February 2012 11:25, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
It strikes me that it would be helpful sometimes to programmatically
recognise "preview" modules in the std lib. Could we have a recommendation
in PEP 8 that such modules should have a global variable called P
ses the global context by default, while this will use the global locale
encoding only if you explicitly tell it to.
--
Steven
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last-ditch attempt would include trying to call him by
phone, sending him a dead-tree letter by post, and if important enough,
actually driving out to his home or place of work and trying to see him face
to face.
(All depending on the importance of making contac
within Python
itself.
+1
--
Steven
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