On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 8:44 AM Jim J. Jewett wrote:
> I actually like that it looks like instantiation; it seems to be saying
> "Do we have the sort of object we would get from this instantiation?"
>
> Unfortunately, this does aggravate the confusion over whether a variable
> is being used as a
against constantness, but only pointing out
that Python is in good company when it comes to lack of constants.
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On Thu, Jul 09, 2020 at 01:22:48AM +1000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Whenever someone says "Python is the only language..." it really turns
> out to be the case. Python is very rarely as unusual as people often
> make out.
Gah, embarrasing typo! That was meant to be *rar
.
And even experienced developers sometimes forget to put parentheses
after file.close, or at least we used to before context managers.
(I know I did. I don't think I'm alone.)
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T
unctional languages like Haskell, F# and ML are not the
only languages with pattern matching. Non-FP languages like C#, Swift,
Rust and Scala have it, and even Java has an extension providing pattern
matching:
http://tom.loria.fr/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
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s implemented in
> Python, for which size and creation time are not critical. I want to
> start with synchronization objects in threading and multiprocessing
> which did not have custom reprs, than change reprs of locks and asyncio
> o
On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 12:03:55PM +0300, Serhiy Storchaka wrote:
> 19.07.20 19:33, Steven D'Aprano пише:
> No, I do not propose to change object IDs. I proposed only to use serial
> numbers instead of IDs in reprs of some classes.
Yes, I understood that you were only talking ab
A single-name unpacking assignment can do exactly what you want, albeit
with slightly less helpful exception messages:
jack, = (p for p in people if p.id == '1234') # note comma after the
name jack
If no value is yielded by the generator expression, you'll get "ValueError:
not enough values t
x27;ve lost count... is the number of emails in this discussion more or
less than a googolplex? *wink*
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les).
Oh, I'm sorry, I based my comment on Chris' comment that Mark was
repeating everyone else's arguments. My bad :-(
I guess at some point I shall have to read the entire thread if I want
to have an opinion on this feature.
(Other than "pattern matching sounds great, but
Hi all,
On the Python-Ideas mailing list, there has been a long debate about
resurrecting PEP 472, "Support for indexing with keyword arguments".
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0472/
One of the existing authors, Stefano Borini, is interested in updating
the PEP with a new strategy that ha
Okay, thanks everyone who answered.
In hindsight you are all correct, writing a new PEP is the best solution
and I was being over-optimistic (and a little lazy) to think otherwise.
I think that, technically, I still have core dev permissions, even
though I haven't used them for quite some time.
There's still a lot of community angst over the possibility that
some hypothetical Python 4 will be like the 2/3 transition. Some people
even imagine that the version after 3.9 could be that transition.
I know we're not responsible for the ravings of people on social media,
but do you think we
Why does `object` define rich comparison dunders `__lt__` etc?
As far as I can tell, `object.__lt__` etc always return NotImplemented.
Merely inheriting from object isn't enough to have comparisons work. So
why do they exist at all? Other "do nothing" dunders such as `__add__`
aren't defined.
On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 02:13:46PM +0300, Serhiy Storchaka wrote:
> 22.09.20 12:48, Steven D'Aprano пише:
> > Why does `object` define rich comparison dunders `__lt__` etc?
> Because object.__eq__ and object.__ne__ exist. If you define slot
> tp_richcompare in C, it is exposed
On Sat, Oct 03, 2020 at 11:41:16AM +0300, Serhiy Storchaka wrote:
> issubclass() accept types (extension types and new-style classes),
> classic classes and arbitrary objects with the __bases__ attribute as
> its arguments.
I didn't think classic classes were still possible in Python 3. How do
yo
On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 11:17:33AM +0100, Steve Holden wrote:
> Full marks to the SC for transparency. That's a healthy sign that the
> community acknowledges its disciplinary processes must also be open to
> scrutiny, and rather better than dealing with matters in a Star Council.
The SC didn't sa
Perhaps this is a silly suggestion, but could we offer this as an
external function in the stdlib rather than a string method?
Leave it up to the user to decide whether or not their data best suits
the find method or the new search function. It sounds like we can offer
some rough heuristics, bu
On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 2:32 PM, Sebastian Rittau
wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I am curious why the following will not work in Python:
>
> class foo(object):
> def bar(self):
> print self.attr
>
> class duck(object):
> attr = 3.14
>
> foo.bar(duck())
>
> Is it a design decision that duck
ess the
Python versions without black magic or hacks?
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worth, I like that naming convention better than the
current conventions Foo/cFoo, Foo/_Foo.
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On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 1:11 PM, Paul Moore wrote:
> PS Just for my own information, am I correct in thinking that it is
> *only* Bazaar in the (D)VCS world that has this problem, to any real
> extent? I know old Mercurial clients can interact with newer servers
> (ie, the wire protocol hasn't cha
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 1:45 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:
> But there is another issue with this: the pure Python code will never call
> the extension code because the globals will be bound to _pypickle and not
> _pickle. So if you have something like::
>
> # _pypickle
> def A(): return _B()
> de
On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 04:02, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> For example, a version that allows any number of extension modules to be
> suppressed when importing a module (defaulting to the Foo/_Foo naming):
>
> import sys
> def import_python_only(mod_name, *ext_names):
>if not ext_names:
>e
On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 12:10 PM, tav wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> As an attempt to convince everyone of the merits of my functions-based
> approach to security, I've come up with a simple challenge. I've
> attached it as safelite.py
>
> The challenge is simple:
>
> * Open a fresh Python interpreter
> *
On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 4:24 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> An interesting discrepancy [1] has been noted when comparing
> contextlib.nested (and contextlib.contextmanager) with the equivalent
> nested with statements.
>
> Specifically, the following examples behave differently if
> cmB().__enter__() r
s that an ordered dictionary feels like a fundamental data
structure like str, list and dict rather than a specialist class like
HTTPBasicAuthHandler. (I realise that "fundamental data structure" is
not a well-defined category.) I look forward to the day OrderedDict
becomes a built-in
es, but if so I don't know what they are.
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atives: OrderedDict and odict, or as Raymond
puts it, green with pink polka dots versus pink with green polka dots. I
don't think there's much point in suggesting fluorescent orange with
brown and grey stripes as well.
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Python-D
ught to be horribly inefficient and slow.
I also can't think of an alternative
explanation, so thus far, it's resistant to false positive semantics.
"The keys don't expire with time."
"It's stable against accidental deletions."
"It's stable ag
hat means classes instead of magic
constants.
Would there be interest in a filetools module? Replies and discussion to
python-ideas please.
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ore. Konquorer does much the same, except it
can only recover from application crashes, not system crashes. I can't
tell you how many times such features have saved my hide!
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loper to choose the
subclass she wants:
from filetools import SyncOnWrite as open
f = open('mydata.txt', 'w')
f.write(data)
The choice of which subclass gets used is up to the application, but
naturally that might be specified by a user-configurable setting.
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expect the app
to honour whatever setting they put in regarding HDD behaviour, and
Linux users may expect more fine control over application behaviour and
be willing to edit config files to get it.
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is that these are *application* decisions, not *language*
decisions. Python shouldn't be making those decisions, but should be
enabling application developers to make them.
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mplexity of writing the code, and the increased number of paths that
need to be tested, may lead to bugs which cause data loss. This may be
more risky than the original strategy above (whatever that happens to
be.)
Complexity is not cost-free, and insisting that the
Tres, for some reason every time you reply to the list, you send TWO
copies instead of one:
To: python-dev@python.org
CC: Python Dev
Could you please fix that?
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On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 10:50 AM, Michael Foord
wrote:
> Brett Cannon wrote:
>>
>> Without knowing what StatementSkipped is (just some singleton? If so why
>> not just used SkipStatement instance that was raised?) and wondering if we
>> are just going to continue to adding control flow exceptions
On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 11:06 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> Moreover, since the main use case seems to be fixing a corner case of
> the nested() context manager, perhaps the effort towards changing the
> language would be better directed towards supporting "with a, b:" as a
> shorthand for "with a
On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 7:08 AM, Paul Moore wrote:
> I use Python for systems admin scripts, Windows services, and database
> management. In my experience (and I agree, it's only one, limited, use
> case) availability of download-and-run bdist_wininst installers for
> every package I used was the
dict,
thus saving one pointer per item, but of course that would rely on a
change on set behaviour.
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f_odd_numbers:
... print alist[Decimal('3')]
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "", line 2, in
TypeError: list indices must be integers
Python does not promise that if x == y, you can use y anywhere you can
use x. Nor should it. Paul'
0.5 on any such
optimizations which change the semantics of a f.p. operation. The only
reason it's -0.5 rather than -1 is that (presumably) anyone who cares
about floating point correctness already knows to never trust the
compiler.
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__
st name, or that a first name and last name is
sufficient to legally identify them. Those from Spanish and Portuguese
cultures usually have two family names as well as a personal name;
people from Indonesian, Burmese and Malaysian cultures often only use a
single name.
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On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 2:29 AM, Mart Sõmermaa wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 12:56 AM, Antoine Pitrou
> wrote:
>>
>> Mart Sõmermaa gmail.com> writes:
>> >
>> > Proposal: add add_query_params() for appending query parameters to an
>> > URL to
>> urllib.parse and urlparse.
>>
>> Is there an
5335 defines an experimental approach to allowing full
Unicode in mail headers, but surely it's going to be a while before
that's common, let alone standard.
http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5335
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On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 1:14 PM, Mart Sõmermaa wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 8:23 PM, Steven Bethard
> wrote:
>> On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 2:29 AM, Mart Sõmermaa wrote:
>> > As for the duplicate handling, I've implemented a threefold strategy that
>> >
1 month to a day will be defined as adding days_in_month days
(if given), and if not given, adding 31 days but truncating the result
to the last day of the next month.
Thoughts?
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On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:29:11 pm Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Adding one month to 31st January could mean:
>
> 1: raise an exception
> 2: return 28th February (last day of February)
> 3: return 3rd April (1 month = 31 days)
> 4: return 2nd April (1 month = 30 days)
> 5: ret
common expectation, possibly the
most common.
I just asked the missus, who is a non-programmer, what date is one month
after 31st January and her answer was "2rd of March on leap years,
otherwise 3rd of March".
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_
off error:
>>> x = 0.0
>>> step = 0.001
>>> for i in xrange(1000):
... x += step
...
>>> x
1.0007
The solution isn't to add a "goal" to the plus operator, but to fix your
code to use a bet
On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 8:14 PM, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
> 2009/4/18 Nick Coghlan :
>> I see a few options:
>> 1. Abandon the "python" name for the 3.x series and commit to calling it
>> "python3" now and forever (i.e. actually make the decision that Mitchell
>> refers to).
>
> I believe this was
On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 9:37 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> Steven Bethard wrote:
>> On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 8:14 PM, Benjamin Peterson
>> wrote:
>>> 2009/4/18 Nick Coghlan :
>>>> I see a few options:
>>>> 1. Abandon the "python" name for
On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 10:04 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> Steven Bethard wrote:
>> On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 9:37 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>>> Note that such an approach would then require an altaltinstall command
>>> in order to be able to install a specific ve
On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 1:38 AM, Mart Sõmermaa wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 2:06 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>> That said, I'm starting to wonder if an even better option may be to
>> just drop the kwargs support from the function and require people to
>> always supply a parameters dictionary. Th
r convenience when they don't care
about order or duplicates, and (name,value) pairs, or an OrderedDict,
when they do.
I suppose you could force people to write params.items() if params is a
dict, but it seems wrong to force an order on input data when it
doesn't require one.
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thon. You would probably be better off on comp.lang.python or
python-l...@python.org.
However, I believe that the normal way to prevent the generation
of .pyc files is to remove write access to the directory where
the .py files are.
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es to '%g'
> formatting for numbers larger than 1e50.
...
> I propose removing this feature for 3.1
No objections from me. +1
> I propose changing the complex str and repr to behave like the
> float version. That is, repr(4. + 10.j) should be "(4.0 + 10.0j)"
&g
em
uses bytes for filenames?
If I write a piece of Python code:
filename = 'some path/some name'
I might call it a filename, I might think of it as a filename, but it
*isn't*, it's a string in a Python program. It isn't a filename until
of
malformed file names, and this is what happens when you try to work
with them. Please, let's see some code we can run, not more words.
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gt;> import os
>>> os.remove(chr(255))
>>>
Given that chr(255) is a valid filename on my file system, I would
consider it a bug if Python couldn't deal with a file with that name.
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for my
> liking. People who think that the "c" in "ctime"
> means "creation" are still likely to confuse them.
>
> Why not give it a more explicit name, such
> as "st_creationtime"?
Speaking as somebody who t
On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 01:20:53 pm Cameron Simpson wrote:
> I don't think all
> pythons do immediate ref-counted GC.
Jython and IronPython don't. I don't know about PyPy, CLPython, Unladen
Swallow, etc.
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_
On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 1:36 PM, Jerry Chen wrote:
> QUICK EXAMPLES
>
> >>> "{} {} {}" @ (1, 2, 3)
> '1 2 3'
>
> >>> "foo {qux} baz" @ {"qux": "bar"}
> 'foo bar baz'
>
> One of the main complaints of a binary operator in PEP 3101 was the
> inability to mix named and unnamed arguments:
>
h because they are automatically
produced from py files."
What if your distribution is not a source distribution and only provides
pyc and pyo files?
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nd wondering what the "k" means.
Alpha, beta, kappa version?
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ing a bunch of
mysterious executable files on your system that you don't remember
installing, and then spending a few paranoid hours trying to determine
whether you've stumbled across a root kit or virus or whether they have
a legitimate reason to be there.
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_
ng regular
announcements to the Python community (e.g. on comp.lang.python) will
be a good way to publicise the tool, and if does meet a need, people
will use it, and then, if it's good enough and popular enough and
supported, it may be blessed by inclusion in the standard librar
t modes, but that you are reading from different files.
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r2() # read from mixed stdout and stderr
I don't like a function to toggle between one and the other: that smacks
of relying on a global setting in a bad way. I suppose you could add an
optional argument to ProcessIOWrapper() to select between stdout,
st
nfusing by adding var
parameters, so you could get results back from a procedure and have
side-effects in a function... oh well.)
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Un
str(e) if ValueError as e # Option 1
func(obj) except ValueError as e: str(e) # Option 2
func(obj) except ValueError as e else str(e) # Option 3
Justify your choice please.
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Pyt
functional
tools, and would like to give a +0.5 to compose(). +1 if anyone can
come up with additional use-cases.
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d, Haskell makes compose a built-in operator:
http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Function_composition
It doesn't appear to be standard in Ruby, but it seems to be commonly
requested, and a version is on Facets:
http://facets.rubyforge.org/apidoc/api/core/classes/Proc.html#M000161
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one thing compose() or partial() could do,
whereas a lambda is so general it could do anything. Contrast:
compose(f, g, h)
lambda x: f(g(h(x)))
You need to read virtually the entire lambda before you can
distinguish it from some other arbitrary lambda:
lambda x: f(
o available as a mailing list:
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Good luck.
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already supports ZIP decryption (as it should), are
there any reasons to prefer the current pure-Python implementation over
a faster version?
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, it will most likely be insignificant: for comparison's
sake, urllib2.Request('http://example.com') takes around 150μs on my
machine, and math.sin(1.1) around 90μs. For any procedure which does
non-trivial amounts of work, saving 0.1μs is insignificant, no matter
how many t
such
users, even at the risk of sometimes accepting invalid input. Or is it
to have a module which is strict and forces the user to Do The Right
Thing, even at the cost of being less easy to use?
For what it's worth, it seems to me that it would be better to have a
strict module in the sta
ses an exception.
obj.broadcast() always returns something which is not a broadcast
address.
I would hope the third option isn't being seriously considered! Are
there any reasons to consider the first two?
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adcast_address = my_net[-1]
>
> The only way the network address could match the number of characters
> in the indexing method is if you just called it the network id (i.e.
> my_net.id). For the broadcast address, there is no name that even
> comes close to matching the indexing approa
dr_a in addr_b.network
>
> As the module stands, you write that as:
>
> addr_a in addr_b
>
> I don't think the intent is as clear with the later.
I would find the later completely unclear and disturbing -- how can one
address contain another address?
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;re not suggesting the older notation be unsupported? I would
expect to be able to use a mask like 255.255.255.192 without having to
count bits myself.
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ss in the network
with the network's netmask
4 Host address -- the part of the IP address that is not masked
by the netmask
5 Broadcast address -- the highest address in a IPv4 network
Containers:
6 Network -- a range of IP address
Have I missed anything or got anything wrong?
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silent mentors.
>
> So, while I am not suggesting we build a bondage and discipline
> machine, I am suggesting that partitioning the functionality
> differently will result in a better outcome all round.
As one of those non-expert users, can I give a big T
posed.
Please excuse my skepticism, but I find that hard to believe.
Given the current API, to test if an address is in the same network as
another address, you write:
addr_a in addr_b
Can you please give a use-case where that makes more sense than the
suggested a
to act accordingly).
I do. Please don't throw away useful information.
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er
increase it. To increase it, you have to explicitly write to the file.
http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/java/nio/channels/FileChannel.html#truncate(long)
In any case, some platforms don't allow the file pointer to exceed the
size of the file, so it's not clear that the POSI
m at subscript i -- the term "subscript" in this
context seems to be rare to non-existent except for the error message.
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d only support netmasks of the form
(say) '255.255.255.224' (equivalent to "/27"), and reject those
like "255.3.255.255". It currently accepts them.
Many applications still display netmasks in dot-quad form, and I would
be terribly annoyed if I had to count th
tly the same range of addresses, but they
don't compare equal. I'm not convinced that netw1 should even be
allowed, but if it is, surely it should be turned into canonical form
netw2? E.g. I would expect this:
>>> ipaddr.IPv4Network('192.168.1.1/24')
IPv4Network('1
you explain what benefit there is for allowing the user to create
network objects that don't represent networks? Is there a use-case
where these networks-that-aren't-networks are something other than a
typo? Under what circumstances would I want to specify a network as
192.168.1.1/24 i
/
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PEP: 389
Title: argparse - new command line parsing module
Version: $Revision: 75097 $
Last-Modified: $Date: 2009-09-27 12:42:40 -0700 (Sun, 27 Sep 2009) $
Author: Steven Bethard
Status: Draft
Type: Standards Track
Content-Type: text/x-rst
Created: 25-Sep-2009
Python-Version: 2.7 and 3.2
dress and netmask, and you've been hostile to the idea. But
it seems to me that your API does exactly that.
I'm not the only person who thinks your API conflates two different
concepts into a single class, and I'm trying to see your side of the
argument. But your h
On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 5:51 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> I am neutral on the idea of adding argparse. However, I'm -1 on deprecating
> optparse. It is very widely used (tons of scripts use it), and ok for many
> uses;
> deprecating it is totally unhelpful and gratuitous.
Could you elaborate? If
On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 8:08 PM, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
> 2009/9/27 Steven Bethard :
>> If you think getopt and optparse should stick around in 3.X, why is
>> that? If you think there are things that getopt and optparse do better
>> than argparse, could you plea
On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 8:41 PM, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
> 2009/9/27 Steven Bethard :
>> The first release where any real deprecation message would show up is
>> Python 3.4, more than 3 years away. If you think 3 years isn't long
>> enough for people to be over the
On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 9:09 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
>> If you think getopt and optparse should stick around in 3.X, why is
>> that? If you think there are things that getopt and optparse do better
>> than argparse, could you please give some examples?
>
> I personally consider getopt superio
On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 8:49 PM, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
> 2009/9/27 Steven Bethard :
>> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 8:41 PM, Benjamin Peterson
>> wrote:
>>> 2009/9/27 Steven Bethard :
>>>> The first release where any real deprecation message would show up i
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 6:03 AM, Jon Ribbens
wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 09:38:20AM +0100, Floris Bruynooghe wrote:
>> On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 06:59:45AM +0300, Yuvgoog Greenle wrote:
>> > -1 for deprecating getopt. getopt is super-simple and especially useful for
>> > c programmers learning
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