ipping bytecode files, etc.).
>
I just wondered whether you plan to support other importers of the PEP
302 style? I have been experimenting with import from database, and
would like to see that work migrate to your rewrite if possible.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +44 150 684 725
minimize(base + relative) == urljoin(base, relative)
>
> test?
>
I should hope that *is* the issue, and I should further hope that the
general wish would be for it to pass that test. Of course web systems
have been riddled with canonicalization errors in the past, so it'd be
best i
a way of providing an effective education. Deprecation may well be
the best way to go for customer-friendliness, but anyone who believes
1e6 is an int should be hit with a stick.
Next thing you know some damned fool is going to suggest that 1e6 gets
parsed into a long integer.
There
is
integral then the literal should have an integral value.
Then, of course, we'll get people complaining about the length of time
it takes to compute expressions containing huge integers.
regards
Steve
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ls even though it's been a part of the standard
*Python* distro since 2.3 (2.2?)
So, it isn't that you can't get distutils, it's that you have to take an
extra step over and above installing Python.
regards
Steve
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nly there were some guarantee that the distros would respect any
project partitioning imposed by python-deb we might stand a chance of
resolving these issues.
By and large they do tend to go their own way, though. I suppose the
only alternative is prominently-posted materials on python.org ab
(1). So the subgroups are numbered starting from
1 and subgroup 0 is a special case which returns the whole match.
I know what the Zen says about special cases, but in this case the rules
were apparently broken with impunity.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden
Martin v. Löwis wrote:
> Steve Holden schrieb:
>> Precisely. But your example had only one group "(b)" in it, which is
>> retrieved using m.group(1). So the subgroups are numbered starting from
>> 1 and subgroup 0 is a special case which returns the whole match.
m :-))
>
> The Rails buzz seems to be jumping to Python lately.
>
Though of course it would be interesting to know the growth in absolute
download count: if there have only been half the number of downloads
then we aren't winning at all ;-)
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holde
from the appropriate new-style package.
Some such compatibility mechanism will be essential if the re-org is to
happen in an acceptable way before Py3k.
regards
Steve
--
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;-)
>> (but even then, you should always be able to recover from mistakes).
>
> That would be fine then. But I'll let you decide since you are offering to
> manage getting it set up.
>
[ ... ]
Let's not spend too much time on paranoid administration, since we are
supposed
versions, without any change in the action of the interpreter in the
absence of any indication that the user wanted migration warnings. That
way we are guiding our forward-looking users towards the future without
chastising others for adopting, or sticking with, older ver
Thomas Wouters wrote:
>
>
> On 1/10/07, *Steve Holden* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
>
> Collin Winter wrote:
> > On 1/10/07, Thomas Wouters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
>
eople at ease.
>
If the action is as stated above you could make it a subclass of
DeprecationWarning as far as I am concerned.
regards
Steve
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Skype: holdenweb http://del.icio.us/st
obably a good job you aren't holding your breath for Perl 6,
though, eh? How *do* we make it easy for the authors of significant code
bases to migrate to 3.0 *and* continue to support hte 2.X "market"?
These questions are all very important. I only wish I were serious
enough to d
r the developers of Jython, IronPython and PyPy have indicated any
interest in and/or commitment to supporting Py3.0.
It's important that the development of 3.0 doesn't fragment the
development community (not to mention the user community), and Jython is
already aiming at a moving targ
nsure perfect translation into (working, no necessarily
optimal) 3.0. Under those circumstances the 2to3 tool wouldn't
necessarily have to translate all valid 2.X to 3.0.
cranki-ly y'rs - steve
--
Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC/Ltd http://ww
Phillip J. Eby wrote:
> At 08:52 PM 1/16/2007 +0000, Steve Holden wrote:
>> I foresee that many people would be happy restricting their 2.X source
>> slightly to ensure perfect translation into (working, no necessarily
>> optimal) 3.0. Under those circumstances t
stances doesn't appear to involve object_new.
>
> Any suggestions on how to do a global object creation hook in python?
>
Nothing other than the above.
regards
Steve
--
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Skype:
Barry Warsaw wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Jan 31, 2007, at 10:11 AM, Aahz wrote:
>
>> Thanks again for giving me something fun to do with my life. ;-)
>
> Here, here!
Where, where?
regards
Steve
--
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seems far less obvious
> to me in the keyword variant.
>
Unfortunately
dict(keys=keys, values=values) == {keys: values}
regards
Steve
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ct(keys=keys, values=values) != dict(zip(keys, values))
regards
Steve
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Blog of Note: http://holdenweb.blogspot.com
d with 2.5 (yet).
When did someone last suggest that Stackless become part of the core
CPython implementation, and why didn't that ever happen?
regards
Steve
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Skype: holde
ht be practical to follow the approach you suggest.
The only things that concern me are a) whether it could make sense to
add Stackless in bits and pieces and b) whether the BDFL (or even the
developer community en masse) would object in principle, thereby
rendering such efforts useless.
My (limited)
arenthesis carry a larger
burden than the introduction of generator expressions did, and it makes
Python a more difficult language to understand.
[provisional PEP snipped]
If it's added in 2.6 I propose it should be deprecated in 2.7 and
removed from 3.0 ...
regards
Steve
--
Oleg Broytmann wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 13, 2007 at 10:10:37AM +0000, Steve Holden wrote:
>> Python further away from the "Computer Programming for Everyone" arena
>> and closer to the "Systems Programming for Clever Individuals" camp.
>
>That'
elf a bit useful :-)
>
Your management of the discussion process has indeed been exemplary.
regards
Steve
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Skype: holdenweb http://del.icio.us/steve.
Oleg Broytmann wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 14, 2007 at 03:24:30PM +0000, Steve Holden wrote:
>> Oleg Broytmann wrote:
>>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2007 at 10:10:37AM +, Steve Holden wrote:
>>>> Python further away from the "Computer Programming for Everyone" arena
>
contain platform dependencies
to handle multiple platforms. Glyph seems to prefer the ability for the
library caller to pass in handlers for platform-dependent features.
> So at this point I'm skeptical that the Twisted
> API for these things should be adopted as-is.
>
Since Glyph ha
Greg Ewing wrote:
> Steve Holden wrote:
>
>> A further data point is that modern machines seem to give timing
>> variabilities due to CPU temperature variations even if you always eat
>> exactly the same thing.
>
> Oh, great. Now we're going to have to ru
Barry Warsaw wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Feb 15, 2007, at 6:27 AM, Anthony Baxter wrote:
>
>> On Thursday 15 February 2007 21:48, Steve Holden wrote:
>>> Greg Ewing wrote:
>>>> Steve Holden wrote:
>>>>>
Steve Holden wrote:
> Barry Warsaw wrote:
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> On Feb 15, 2007, at 6:27 AM, Anthony Baxter wrote:
>>
>>> On Thursday 15 February 2007 21:48, Steve Holden wrote:
>>>> Greg Ewing wrote:
>>
acehorse".
The point of the saying is that a camel has properties that are
completely unnecessary in a horse, such as the ability to travel many
days without water. He was saying that committees tend to over-specify
and add redundant features rather than designing strictly for purpose.
A
>
> _______
> Python-Dev mailing list
> Python-Dev@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/python-python-dev%40m.gmane.org
perceive Python as
a language whose development is carefully managed. Consequently I am
disturbed when a change of this nature is made and it becomes apparent
that there is no consensus for it.
This is not "prevarication", it's a serious discussion about how such
issu
sonally at
Martin, for whom I have the utmost respect as a developer, but at the
lack of process that allows circumstances like this to arise.
regards
Steve
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Skype: holdenweb http://del.i
e there was a patch submitted for this)
>
> What to do with the old function in this case?
>
Presumably keep it, thereby adding to the bloat in the language -
definitely NOT my preferred option.
regards
Steve
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urrent version. This
should continue to work, albeit with less than exemplary efficiency.
regards
Steve
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Holden Web LLC/Ltd http://www.holdenweb.com
Skype: holdenweb http://del.icio.us/steve.holden
Blog of Note:
s:
>
> Yes, yes, and yes.
>
So that would be a yes, then.
Perhaps you'd like to remind me that "backward compatibilty" includes
the necessity to run new programs on old versions of Python, too?
Then I can stop wasting everyone's time. Even though I am no fon
Patrick Maupin wrote:
> On 3/16/07, Steve Holden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[...]
>> Then I can stop wasting everyone's time. Even though I am no fonder of
>> code breakage than I was.
>
> Fortunately, for new code (at least for this particular change!), you
>
t isn't this, despite the force or otherwise of your arguments, simply
*you* "digging in" in response to what you perceive as Martin's truculence?
There's little point at this stage repeating arguments you have already
put forward, since those who were convinced by them rem
ot" whose title makes
it clear this is a moving target and, among other things, whose content
points the user at a definitive (set of) URL(s) for the latest information.
Putting this information in "What's New" (except possibly for mentioning
the creation of this new docu
#x27;s confusing.
>>
>> So, you-people-in-the-list, do you think fix this will be a problem?
>
> The proper English word for plural "you" is "y'all". ;-) Except for
> "all y'all". Isn't English fun?
That's not Engl
and types a character
>every 2.3sec.
>
-- steve, who hits backspace every 1.6 seconds and still makes
loads of typos
--
Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC/Ltd http://www.holdenweb.com
Skype: holdenweb http://del.icio.us/steve.holden
make the scope of a try clause too
broad, covering a larger span of code that necessary so that the except
clause is triggered by unanticipated exceptions. Try to ensure that a
try clause applies to the fewest possible statements to avoid these issues.
regards
Steve
--
Steve
ent does ever break anything it should be more
> tracable).
+1
Enforcing whitespace correctness on checkin has the added advantage that
we will be able to screw another 1% out of uncle Timmy, who will no
longer have to make his repeated whitespace correction checkins and will
therefore have time fo
; is part of some other grammatical construct, generally a statement
> or operator of some kind, so I tend to think of those differently.
>
>
How about "a keyword is an identifier that appears as a literal in the
grammar"?
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266
t;"")
Alas if the proposal to remove the continuation backslash goes through
this may not remain available to us.
I realise that the arrival of Py3 means all these are up for grabs, but
don't think any of them are really warty enough to require removal.
I take the point that octal c
t access to
> it instead.
>
> BTW, one of my test cases involves multiple super calls in the same method -
> there is a *very* large performance improvement by instantiating it once.
>
And how does speed deteriorate for methods with no uses of super at all
(which will
es.address = addresses.id
and addresses.city = cities.id
and events.venue = venues.id""",
(city,))
It also gives you better error messages from most database back-ends.
I realise it makes
t list literals to be immutable too?
>
> lst = ['a', 'b', 'c']
> lst.append('d') # raises an error?
>
> STeVe
I think the point is rather that changes to the list linked by lst after
the initial assignment shouldn't result in the a
> myself but I don't know where I'd find the time).
>
I'm having a hard time understanding why bytes literals would be a good
thing. OK, displays require the work of creating a new object (since
bytes types will be mutable) but surely a mutable literal is always
going to make prog
ar when we should be allowed to hang spammers
up by the nuts (assuming they have any) - "not very welcoming" was the
phrase, IIRC. So maybe I'm no longer rational on this topic.
or-any-other-for-that-matter-ly y'rs - steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 80
ument describes the
development and release schedule for Python 2.5." but it could just as
easily say "future releases of the Python 2.X series" or something similar.
Which reminds me, that PEP needs updating!
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 311
Nick Coghlan wrote:
> Steve Holden wrote:
>> In which case doesn't it make more sense to use the existing mechanism
>> of PEP 356 (Release Schedule)? If something isn't listed in there
>> (even without dates) then there are no current plans to release it,
>>
intended to be used as subscripts. Does
this seem sensible? Was it considered during design? Should I alter the
materials so that only integer subscripts are used?
regards
Steve
Begin forwarded message:
> From: kirby urner
> Date: February 22, 2011 2:31:08 PM PST
> To: Steve Holden
then it is treated as a number, otherwise
> it is used as a string.
>
That's not strictly true:
>>> d = {"Steve":"Holden", "Guido":"van Rossum", 21.2:"float"}
>>> d[21.1]
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "&qu
On Feb 23, 2011, at 5:42 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> Ah, how (much more) confused would we be if we didn't have the PEPs
> and mailing list archives to remind ourselves of what we were thinking
> years ago...
>
True. And how much more useful it would be if it were incorporated into the
documentati
etting it up and running and so on
> will mean waiting another two years.
>
Addressing only the issues of PCBuild8 and 64-bit architectures, I have
tried to establish "free" buildbot support for the 64-bit architectures
without any real success.
Should the PSF be considering p
> them into the computer"). ;-)
>
But doesn't *everyone* now know that documentation contributions don't
have to be marked up? It's certainly been said enough. Maybe that fact
should be more prominent in the documentation? Then we'll just have to
worry about getting people to
ng, linking
> to/from, and indexing the docs are more important than new formats for
> (not) writing the docs.
>
> For example, this rocks! ::
>
> http://pydoc.gbrandl.de/search.html?q=os.path&area=default
>
It would be more impressive if the search string ret
actly the same output since
June 9. I can't believe it's useful information.
regards
Steve
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Skype: holdenweb http://del.icio.us/steve.holden
--- Asciimercial
Brett Cannon wrote:
> On 7/7/07, Josiah Carlson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Steve Holden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> Tracker wrote:
>>>> ACTIVITY SUMMARY (07/01/07 - 07/08/07)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tracker at ht
uiltin
>>> module is missing from config.c. Again, this is not so easy to fix,
>>> because the ftruncate function does not exist on Windows.
>>>
>> I don't have a Windows box; contributions to fix this situation are welcome.
>>
>
> You would
able and lest subject to confusion.
regards
Steve
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Skype: holdenweb http://del.icio.us/steve.holden
--- Asciimercial --
Get on the web: Blog, lens and tag th
e a stupid git to run
Windows".
regards
Steve
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--- Asciimercial --
Get on the web: Blog, lens and tag t
s are used to separate sentences. One space (for
> example, G. D. Montanaro) following a period is considered a non-breakable
> space.
>
How very twentieth-century :-)
regards
Steve
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i686-2.5/libImaging/Chops.o
Are we done yet? Waiting on pid 3244
Got pid, status 3244 0
Got WIFEXITED 0
So it appears unlikely to be gcc-specific, leaving me wondering what
exactly is the difference between the build environment and my tests.
It would be really nice if test_distutils showed any
AVE_LIBZ', '-IlibImaging', '-I/usr/include',
'-I/usr/include
/python2.5', '-c', 'libImaging/Dib.c', '-o',
'build/temp.cygwin-1.5.24-i686-2.5/
libImaging/Dib.o'] PATH? 1 V: 0 D: 0
gcc -fno-strict-aliasing -DNDEBUG -g -O3 -Wall -
other test out of this dreadfully irritating bug.
Thanks again for looking at this.
regards
Steve
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--- Asciimercial
o return an empty iterator?
>
> I'm +0 for the latter.
>
>
> -1. I'm a heavy user of iterators on finite and infinite streams and,
> for me, iter() is an error that I do not want to paper over. The
> alternate logic implies, e.g ., len() should return 0.
>
age Style->No Style), but it
> didn't affect the initial rendering speed. However, scrolling was
> *much* faster without CSS.
>
Probably because the positional calculations are more straightforward then.
regards
Steve
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Holde
Steve Holden wrote:
> Martin v. Löwis wrote:
>>> The only environment variables that don't appear in the shell output
>>> from the env command are INFOPATH, MAKE_MODE and PLAT. I am still flummoxed.
>> At this point, I'd recommend to perform a cygwin update;
ing, the object continues to
> live. Such objects could also start out with a refcount of sys.maxint
> or so to ensure that calls to the no-op deallocator are unlikely.
>
The thought of adding references is amusing. What happens when a
refcount becomes negative by overflow? I know, I sh
nning - a month or two could do it on a 32bit platform).
>
Could each class define the value to be added to or subtracted from the
refcount? We'd only need a bit to store the value (since it would always
be zero or one), but the execution time might increase quite a lot if
there's n
ronPython is that you don't *need* any
> wrappers - you access .NET objects natively (which in fact wrap the
> lower level win32 API) - and the .NET APIs are usually not as bad as you
> probably assume. ;-)
>
This thread might represent an argument that you *do* need wrappers ...
4 (cygming special, gdc 0.12, using dmd 0.125)] on cygwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> "%%(%s)=%%s" % "hello"
'%(hello)=%s'
>>>
I suspect the problem may lie somewhe
an cost (It's just
>
> I will prepare, just for decimal.py, a benchmark that is a mix of all
> operations and use (a mix of common operations like add, not so used
> ones like log10, context switching, exceptions raised, etc). You can
> use this if you want, to measure also
se, even if you had such a system, the generated
> code wouldn't look anything like well-formed Python and would be a
> maintenance nightmare.
>
Besides which, the migration path is already well-specified: write in
3.x-compatible 2.6 and use 2to3 to migrate the code with no further
p
nses since I was under the impression that restricted
> algorithms are disabled by default.
>
> I've disabled IDEA in the makefiles and configure headers of openssl.
> I've also added another step to the makefile patcher in build_ssl. It
> makes sure that the three algorith
the
module namespace.
I doubt many people would want to replace "global" with "module".
What's it being replaced with in 3.x?
regards
Steve
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__
ake
> a bit more time with 64 bits, though.
>
That's a good local optimization for today's conditions, probably. Who
nows whether it will survive the next ten years. And decisions like that
have a weird habit of running into pathological cases whose authors
curse you when they fi
7;t take into account the
different options that were used to compile existing object files.
Without the "make clean" it says "aha, here's a nice up-to-date object
file, I'll use that" and you don't get a freshly-compiled version.
Touching the sources should als
[Sorry, the send key pressed itself there]
Touching the sources should also work, and is a little quicker (but this
is usually only practical for small projects).
regards
Steve
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s Titus has just uploaded
about seventy (70!) new projects I am unsure as to how long it would
have to wait ti get in the queue.
regards
Steve
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seems ugly and unnecessary to me.
I'd rather consider Icon's "break break" to exit two levels of looping,
but I don't see that flying either.
You still haven't made a convincing use case for "yield break", IMHO.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 5
Joseph Armbruster wrote:
> Is svn.python.org ok? I am unable to perform an update at the moment.
>
Looks like a transient or location-related problem - I am getting an
update as I write.
regards
Steve
--
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/sandbox/trunk/2to3': could not connect
> to server (http://svn.python.org)
>
> Something seems amiss.
>
Guess my previous output didn't apply to the sandbox. Sorry.
regards
Steve
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uters/ was totally
alien to the Windows mindset.
looking-at-Vista-and-thinking-very-hard-ly y'rs - steve
--
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___
Python-Dev ma
mpotent? Couldn't
if isinstance(result, str):
result = unicode(result)
avoid repeating in Python a test already made in C by re-spelling it as
result = unicode(result)
or have you hand-waved away important details that mean the test really
is require
hat it *should* feel a little gross
> when you have to do it, so the code I've written that does
> monkeypatching for real is generally a bit ugly.
Yes, monkeypatching should never be formalized to the point where
novices see it as other than a tool of last resort. Otherwise a user
b
rationale for this behaviour?
>> For both TemporaryFile and NamedTemporaryFile, the rationale is that
>> "temporary" extends until the object is garbage collected.
>> TemporaryFile is deleted immediately (to prevent other applications from
>> modifying your
aspects of issue
processing, for example to ensure that priority gets set by a
"responsible" reviewer.
However whether such workflow should be imposed by automation or simply
a discipline of development I'm not in a position to say.
regards
Steve
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Steve Holden+1 57
eat job 98% of the time.
Maybe once we get easy_install as a part of the core (so there's no need
to find and run ez_setup.py to start with) things will start to improve.
This is an issue the whole developer community needs to take seriously
if we are interested in increasing take-up.
Christian Heimes wrote:
> Steve Holden wrote:
>> Maybe once we get easy_install as a part of the core (so there's no need
>> to find and run ez_setup.py to start with) things will start to improve.
>> This is an issue the whole developer community needs to take seriously
Phillip J. Eby wrote:
> At 01:06 AM 1/22/2008 +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>> Steve Holden wrote:
>>> Christian Heimes wrote:
>>>> Steve Holden wrote:
>>>>> Maybe once we get easy_install as a part of the core (so there's no need
>>>>>
patch? I can't bring myself to believe
that 1745035 is really "important" enough.
regards
Steve
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___
Python-Dev mailing lis
Guido van Rossum wrote:
> On Jan 23, 2008 12:25 PM, Steve Holden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Giampaolo Rodola' wrote:
>>>> Also, *nothing* should go into the 2.4 branch any more *except*
>>>> important security patches.
>> ^
>&g
out with deprecation warnings of this type.
What's next: "This isn't Perl" when someone tries to add a number and a
string?
Surely the place to raise warnings is in 2to3.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC htt
c.numbers. Either one would be an
> improvement.
>
abstract_numbers would seem to express the essence without focusing on
the mechanism unduly. Of course no sane person would suggest using a
keyword, like
import abstract numbers
Wouldn't want to let reader know what was g
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