Re: [Python-Dev] [Webmaster] Unsafe listing by Norton's "File Insight"

2016-07-05 Thread Steve Dower
On 05Jul2016 1615, Peter wrote: It's not the URL it is complaining of, rather On Windows, Norton Internet Security virus checks all downloads. One of the names they give to the result of their scanning is 'File Insight'. From what I can tell, it uses a few checks: - virus scanning using known sig

Re: [Python-Dev] Breaking up the stdlib (Was: release cadence)

2016-07-06 Thread Steve Dower
I think the wsgiref issue was that it wasn't in site-packages and so couldn't be removed or upgraded. Having the dist-info available and putting them in site-packages (or a new directory?) lets us handle querying/replacing/removing using the existing tools we use for distribution. Also, I think

[Python-Dev] Making stdlib modules optional for distributions (Was: Breaking up the stdlib (Was: release cadence))

2016-07-06 Thread Steve Dower
I consider making stdlib modules "optional" like this to be completely separate from making them individually versioned - can't quite tell whether you guys do as well? To everyone: please don't conflate these two discussions. The other is about CPython workflow and this one is about community/u

Re: [Python-Dev] Breaking up the stdlib (Was: release cadence)

2016-07-06 Thread Steve Dower
om: "Paul Moore" Sent: ‎7/‎6/‎2016 7:10 To: "Steve Dower" Cc: "Petr Viktorin" ; "Python-Dev" Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Breaking up the stdlib (Was: release cadence) On 6 July 2016 at 14:55, Steve Dower wrote: > I think the wsgiref issue was that it wasn&#

Re: [Python-Dev] Breaking up the stdlib (Was: release cadence)

2016-07-06 Thread Steve Dower
On 06Jul2016 0753, Steve Dower wrote: Thrashing out details should go on the workflow SIG, and I guess I'm the obvious candidate to push it asking. But given my own time constraints right now, I'm not going to dive into details if the high level concept (stdlib packages can be in

Re: [Python-Dev] Making stdlib modules optional for distributions (Was: Breaking up the stdlib (Was: release cadence))

2016-07-07 Thread Steve Dower
On 07Jul2016 0624, Barry Warsaw wrote: On Jul 07, 2016, at 08:12 AM, Eric V. Smith wrote: One thing to keep in mind if we do this is how it interacts with the -S command line option to not include site-packages in sys.path. I currently use -S to basically mean "give my python as it was distribu

[Python-Dev] PEP 514: Python registration in the Windows registry

2016-07-15 Thread Steve Dower
to Guido first, unless he wants to delegate to one of the other Windows contributors? Cheers, Steve URL: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0514/ Full text --- PEP: 514 Title: Python registration in the Windows registry Version: $Revision$ Last-Modified: $Date$ Author: Steve Dower Sta

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 514: Python registration in the Windows registry

2016-07-15 Thread Steve Dower
e would be my first choice. Otherwise Zach still has the obligation that comes with being labelled a Windows expert in the dev guide ;) On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 3:20 PM, Steve Dower wrote: Hi all I'd like to get this PEP approved (status changed to Active, IIUC). So far (to my knowl

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 514: Python registration in the Windows registry

2016-07-16 Thread Steve Dower
Good catch, thanks. Top-posted from my Windows Phone -Original Message- From: "Nick Coghlan" Sent: ‎7/‎15/‎2016 23:53 To: "Steve Dower" Cc: "Python Dev" Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 514: Python registration in the Windows registry On 16 July 201

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 514: Python registration in the Windows registry

2016-07-18 Thread Steve Dower
On 16Jul2016 1254, Paul Moore wrote: On 15 July 2016 at 23:20, Steve Dower wrote: Hi all I'd like to get this PEP approved (status changed to Active, IIUC). Some comments below. Awesome, thanks! Posted a pull request at https://github.com/python/peps/pull/59 for ease of diff reading

[Python-Dev] PEP 514: Python registration in the Windows registry

2016-07-23 Thread Steve Dower
e: Python registration in the Windows registry Version: $Revision$ Last-Modified: $Date$ Author: Steve Dower Status: Draft Type: Informational Content-Type: text/x-rst Created: 02-Feb-2016 Post-History: 02-Feb-2016, 01-Mar-2016, 18-Jul-2016 Abstract This PEP defines a schema for the Pyt

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 514: Python registration in the Windows registry

2016-07-23 Thread Steve Dower
On 23Jul2016 1320, Guido van Rossum wrote: I'll let Paul pronounce. But you should probably have a BDFL-Delegate: ... header. Yeah, my headers are a bit outdated... I'm not even sure the $Revision$ and $Date$ variables are going to be substituted anymore (unless it's a pep2html thing rather t

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 514: Python registration in the Windows registry

2016-07-24 Thread Steve Dower
Thanks Paul. I'll update the headers on the PEP later today. Top-posted from my Windows Phone -Original Message- From: "Paul Moore" Sent: ‎7/‎24/‎2016 0:45 To: "Guido van Rossum" Cc: "Steve Dower" ; "Python Dev" Subject: Re: [Python-Dev

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 514: Python registration in the Windows registry

2016-07-28 Thread Steve Dower
From: "Barry Scott" Sent: ‎7/‎28/‎2016 10:19 To: "Steve Dower" Cc: "Python Dev" Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 514: Python registration in the Windows registry Why do you need SysArchitecture? Surely the 32bit pythons are registered in the 32bit registry and the 64

Re: [Python-Dev] C99

2016-08-05 Thread Steve Dower
FYI, it's MSVC 14.0 (which is included in VS 2015). Personally I'd like to see it restricted to the common subset of C99 and some version of C++ (which is obviously mostly C and includes no C++), because I know there are a few things in C99 only that are very obscure because they aren't also in

Re: [Python-Dev] Failures in test_site.py - how to debug?

2016-08-19 Thread Steve Dower
On 19Aug2016 0910, Chris Angelico wrote: On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 1:26 AM, Steve Dower wrote: Check any .pth files you can find. I suspect mpl_toolkits has some magic in it to make the namespace package work on 2.7. $ cat /usr/local/lib/python3.6/site-packages/matplotlib-1.5.1-py3.6-nspkg.pth

[Python-Dev] File system path encoding on Windows

2016-08-19 Thread Steve Dower
Hi python-dev About a week ago I proposed on python-ideas making some changes to how Python deals with encodings on Windows, specifically in relation to how Python interacts with the operating system. Changes to the console were uncontroversial, and I have posted patches at http://bugs.pytho

Re: [Python-Dev] File system path encoding on Windows

2016-08-19 Thread Steve Dower
On 19Aug2016 1225, Daniel Holth wrote: #1 sounds like a great idea. I suppose surrogatepass solves approximately the same problem of Rust's WTF-8, which is a way to round-trip bad UCS-2? https://simonsapin.github.io/wtf-8/ Yep. #2 sounds like it would leave several problems, since mbcs is not

Re: [Python-Dev] Failures in test_site.py - how to debug?

2016-08-19 Thread Steve Dower
On 19Aug2016 1410, Chris Angelico wrote: 2) Change the test to somehow disable .pth execution while keeping the rest of site.py intact. This gives more consistent test results, but still is mostly applicable to normal usage. If you start the process with "-S", then run: import site sit

Re: [Python-Dev] File system path encoding on Windows

2016-08-20 Thread Steve Dower
On 20Aug2016 1231, Nick Coghlan wrote: I'd like to suggest an option that didn't come up on python-ideas: add such a flag to Python 3.6, and then actively seek feedback from folks using non-UTF-8 encodings before making a decision on what to do by default in Python 3.7. My biggest concern is th

Re: [Python-Dev] File system path encoding on Windows

2016-08-22 Thread Steve Dower
On 22Aug2016 0247, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Nick Coghlan writes: > On 21 August 2016 at 06:31, Steve Dower wrote: > > My biggest concern is that it then falls onto users to know how > > to start Python with that flag. The users I'm most worried about belong to

Re: [Python-Dev] File system path encoding on Windows

2016-08-23 Thread Steve Dower
I've trimmed fairly aggressively for the sake of not causing the rest of the list to mute our discussion (again :) ). Stephen - feel free to email me off list if I go too far or misrepresent you. As a summary for people who don't want to read on (and Stephen will correct me if I misquote): *

Re: [Python-Dev] File system path encoding on Windows

2016-08-24 Thread Steve Dower
On 23Aug2016 2150, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Steve Dower writes: > * Stephen sees "no reason not to change locale.getpreferredencoding()" > (default encoding for open()) at the same time with the same switches, > while I'm not quite as confident. Do users gener

Re: [Python-Dev] File system path encoding on Windows

2016-08-29 Thread Steve Dower
On 28Aug2016 2043, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: tritium-l...@sdamon.com writes: > Once you get to var lengths like that, arcane single character flags start > looking preferable. How about "PYTHONWINLEGACY" to just turn it all on or > off. If the code breaks on one thing, it obviously isn't w

Re: [Python-Dev] File system path encoding on Windows

2016-08-29 Thread Steve Dower
On 29Aug2016 1810, Nick Coghlan wrote: On 30 August 2016 at 08:38, Victor Stinner wrote: Hi, tl; dr: just drop byte support and help developers to use Unicode in their application! My view (and Steve's) is that this approach is likely to result in Linux-centric projects just dropping even no

Re: [Python-Dev] File system path encoding on Windows

2016-08-30 Thread Steve Dower
Top-posted from my Windows Phone -Original Message- From: "Victor Stinner" Sent: ‎8/‎30/‎2016 1:21 To: "Nick Coghlan" Cc: "Steve Dower" ; "Python Dev" Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] File system path encoding on Windows Le 30 août 2016 03:10, "Nick

Re: [Python-Dev] File system path encoding on Windows

2016-08-30 Thread Steve Dower
On 30Aug2016 0806, Victor Stinner wrote: 2016-08-30 16:31 GMT+02:00 Steve Dower : It's the random user on Windows who installed their library that has the problem. They don't know the fix, and may not know how to apply it (e.g. if it's their Jupyter notebook that won't fin

Re: [Python-Dev] File system path encoding on Windows

2016-08-30 Thread Steve Dower
On 30Aug2016 1108, Guido van Rossum wrote: Is this thread something I need to follow closely? I have PEPs coming, and I'll distil the technical parts of the discussion into those. We may need you to impose an opinion on whether 3.6 is an appropriate time for the change or it should wait for

Re: [Python-Dev] File system path encoding on Windows

2016-08-30 Thread Steve Dower
On 30Aug2016 1611, Victor Stinner wrote: 2016-08-30 23:51 GMT+02:00 Victor Stinner : As I already wrote once, my problem is also tjat I simply have no idea how much Python 3 code uses bytes filename. For example, does it concern more than 25% of py3 modules on PyPi, or less than 5%? I made a v

Re: [Python-Dev] File system path encoding on Windows

2016-08-30 Thread Steve Dower
On 30Aug2016 1702, Victor Stinner wrote: I made another quick&dirty test on Django 1.10 (I ran Django test suite on my modified Python raising exception on bytes path): I didn't notice any exception related to bytes path. Django seems to only use Unicode for paths. I can try to run more tests i

[Python-Dev] PEP 528: Change Windows console encoding to UTF-8

2016-09-01 Thread Steve Dower
flights, but it's in pretty good shape right now. Cheers, Steve --- https://github.com/python/peps/blob/master/pep-0528.txt --- PEP: 528 Title: Change Windows console encoding to UTF-8 Version: $Revision$ Last-Modified: $Date$ Author: Steve Dower Status: Draft Type: Standards Track

[Python-Dev] PEP 529: Change Windows filesystem encoding to UTF-8

2016-09-01 Thread Steve Dower
sion: $Revision$ Last-Modified: $Date$ Author: Steve Dower Status: Draft Type: Standards Track Content-Type: text/x-rst Created: 27-Aug-2016 Post-History: 01-Sep-2016 Abstract Historically, Python uses the ANSI APIs for interacting with the Windows operating system, often via C Ru

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 528: Change Windows console encoding to UTF-8

2016-09-01 Thread Steve Dower
-Dev] PEP 528: Change Windows console encoding to UTF-8 On Thu, Sep 1, 2016, at 18:28, Steve Dower wrote: > This is a raw (bytes) IO class that requires text to be passed encoded > with utf-8, which will be decoded to utf-16-le and passed to the Windows APIs. > Similarly, bytes read from t

Re: [Python-Dev] Please reject or postpone PEP 526

2016-09-02 Thread Steve Dower
"I'm not seeing what distinction you think you are making here. What distinction do you see between: x: int = func(value) and x = func(value) #type: int" Not sure whether I agree with Mark on this particular point, but the difference I see here is that the first describes what types

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 528: Change Windows console encoding to UTF-8

2016-09-04 Thread Steve Dower
I posted a minor update to PEP 528 at https://github.com/python/peps/blob/master/pep-0528.txt and a diff below. While there are likely to be technical and compatibility issues to resolve after the changes are applied, I don't believe they impact the decision to accept the change at the PEP-lev

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 529: Change Windows filesystem encoding to UTF-8

2016-09-04 Thread Steve Dower
I posted an update to PEP 529 at https://github.com/python/peps/blob/master/pep-0529.txt and a diff below. The update includes more detail on the affected code within CPython - including a number of references to broken code that would be resolved with the change - and more details about the ne

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 528: Change Windows console encoding to UTF-8

2016-09-05 Thread Steve Dower
EP 528: Change Windows console encoding to UTF-8 On 5 September 2016 at 10:37, Martin Panter wrote: > On 5 September 2016 at 09:10, Paul Moore wrote: >> On 5 September 2016 at 06:54, Steve Dower wrote: >>> +Using the raw object with small buffers >>> +---

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 528: Change Windows console encoding to UTF-8

2016-09-05 Thread Steve Dower
On 05Sep2016 0941, Paul Moore wrote: On 5 September 2016 at 14:36, Steve Dower wrote: The best fix is to use a buffered reader, which will read all the available bytes and then let you .read(1), even if it happens to be an incomplete character. But this is sys.stdin.buffer.raw, we're ta

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 528: Change Windows console encoding to UTF-8

2016-09-05 Thread Steve Dower
On 05Sep2016 1110, Paul Moore wrote: On 5 September 2016 at 18:38, Steve Dower wrote: Can you provide an example of how I'd rewrite the code that I quoted previously to follow this advice? Note - this is not theoretical, I expect to have to provide a PR to fix exactly this code should

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 528: Change Windows console encoding to UTF-8

2016-09-05 Thread Steve Dower
On 05Sep2016 1234, eryk sun wrote: Also, the console is UCS-2, which can't be transcoded between UTF-16 and UTF-8. Supporting UCS-2 in the console would integrate nicely with the filesystem PEP. It makes it always possible to print os.listdir('.'), copy and paste, and read it back without data lo

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 528: Change Windows console encoding to UTF-8

2016-09-05 Thread Steve Dower
On 05Sep2016 1308, Paul Moore wrote: On 5 September 2016 at 20:30, Steve Dower wrote: The only case we can reasonably handle at the raw layer is "n / 4" is zero but n != 0, in which case we can read and cache up to 4 bytes (one wchar_t) and then return those in future calls. If we tr

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 529: Change Windows filesystem encoding to UTF-8

2016-09-07 Thread Steve Dower
On 07Sep2016 1037, Guido van Rossum wrote: I'm hijacking this thread to provisionally accept PEP 529. (I'll also do this for PEP 528, in its own thread.) I've talked things over with Steve and Victor and we're going to do an experiment (as now written up in the PEP: https://www.python.org/dev/pe

Re: [Python-Dev] (some) C99 added to PEP 7

2016-09-08 Thread Steve Dower
On 08Sep2016 1301, Chris Barker wrote: On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 9:39 AM, Random832 mailto:random...@fastmail.com>> wrote: You're talking about changing Py_ssize_t, right? wouldn't that be the pointer size? Is there a "long" in there anywhere in the integer implementation? [SNIP] Does py3 al

Re: [Python-Dev] sys.path file feature

2016-09-10 Thread Steve Dower
The underscore is an appropriate rename here, but calling the file sys.path was too juicy :) It's intended only for embedding on Windows and does not exist on Linux/Mac yet (more precisely, implementation is only in PC/getpathp.c). I chatted with some people about spreading it and there wasn't

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] cpython: Fixes test_getargs2 to get the buildbots working again.

2016-09-11 Thread Steve Dower
On 11Sep2016 1944, steve.dower wrote: https://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/7793d34609cb changeset: 103679:7793d34609cb user:Steve Dower date:Sun Sep 11 19:43:51 2016 -0700 summary: Fixes test_getargs2 to get the buildbots working again. files: Lib/test/test_getargs2.py | 2

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] cpython: Fixes test_getargs2 to get the buildbots working again.

2016-09-11 Thread Steve Dower
On 11Sep2016 1959, Martin Panter wrote: On 12 September 2016 at 02:48, Steve Dower wrote: Fixes test_getargs2 to get the buildbots working again. I'm not sure this is the fix we want to keep here, but it was sufficient to get the test going and unblock all the buildbots. I'm no

Re: [Python-Dev] Default formatting

2016-10-27 Thread Steve Dower
On 27Oct2016 0251, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: On 27.10.16 02:44, Eric V. Smith wrote: But on the other hand, the existing behavior is well specified and has been around since object.__format__ was added. I'm not sure it needs changing. What's the harm in leaving it? More complicated code. And may

[Python-Dev] Installing Python on Windows

2016-11-07 Thread Steve Dower
Hi all Those of you who follow me on Twitter (@zooba) may have noticed that I posted one of my rare blog posts over the weekend about the increasing range of Python installers available for Windows. I figured I'd draw some attention here in case others are interested in my rationale for why

Re: [Python-Dev] Recent changes to PyCodeObject

2016-11-16 Thread Steve Dower
On 16Nov2016 1618, Ned Batchelder wrote: When I added Python 3.6 support to coverage.py, I posted a Mac wheel to PyPI: https://pypi.python.org/pypi/coverage/ That wheel was built against 3.6a3, the latest version at the time. When I use it now on 3.6b3, it doesn't work right. The reason is tha

Re: [Python-Dev] Recent changes to PyCodeObject

2016-11-16 Thread Steve Dower
, just not ready for general distribution (or for producing wheels for general distribution). Cheers, Steve Top-posted from my Windows Phone -Original Message- From: "Nathaniel Smith" Sent: ‎11/‎16/‎2016 20:19 To: "Nick Coghlan" Cc: "Python Dev" ; "St

[Python-Dev] Python 3.6.0 download stats

2016-11-22 Thread Steve Dower
For anyone who's interested, I ran a quick analysis of the download stats from python.org for CPython 3.6.0 releases since September. As Mac and Linux users typically get their downloads from elsewhere, those stats are on the low side. However, we've been getting roughly 10k downloads/day for

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7.13 release dates

2016-11-29 Thread Steve Dower
I would much rather keep it in December, as I've already made scheduling decisions around the planned release date and there are fixes in 2.7.13 that I was expecting to be available by the end of the year. One month is highly impactful for me. Is this schedule change going to remove the month f

Re: [Python-Dev] cpython: Revert unintended merge

2016-12-03 Thread Steve Dower
On 03Dec2016 1312, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: On 03.12.16 22:13, steve.dower wrote: https://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/a60767015bed changeset: 105436:a60767015bed user:Steve Dower date:Sat Dec 03 12:12:23 2016 -0800 summary: Revert unintended merge I suppose it should be

Re: [Python-Dev] cpython: Revert unintended merge

2016-12-03 Thread Steve Dower
On 03Dec2016 1519, Martin Panter wrote: This change comes from Matthias (Doko), and was originally only in the 3.5 branch: https://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/14c80065c36e I presume it was left unmerged until there is a branch for 3.6.1 to merge into. So Steve, when you did your first 3.5 → 3.6 me

[Python-Dev] Issue #23903 - stable API is incomplete

2016-12-20 Thread Steve Dower
For those who aren't aware, the stable API (PEP 384) is broken on Windows because the exports from python3.dll have not been kept up to date. Over at http://bugs.python.org/issue23903 we're trying to address this by automatically generating the DLL based on the headers. This has shown that man

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue #23903 - stable API is incomplete

2016-12-20 Thread Steve Dower
Phone -Original Message- From: "Steve Dower" Sent: ‎12/‎20/‎2016 17:56 To: "Python Dev" Subject: [Python-Dev] Issue #23903 - stable API is incomplete For those who aren't aware, the stable API (PEP 384) is broken on Windows because the exports from python3.dll have not

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue #23903 - stable API is incomplete

2016-12-21 Thread Steve Dower
"Ok, now why should _Py_PrintReferences() function be exported?" It probably shouldn't, but it needs an #ifndef Py_LIMITED_API check so it is excluded from the headers (my list was automatically generated). And ideally, private functions that are deliberately exported would have comments, or if

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue #23903 - stable API is incomplete

2016-12-21 Thread Steve Dower
‎21/‎2016 8:22 To: "Steve Dower" Cc: "Serhiy Storchaka" ; "Victor Stinner" ; "Python Dev" Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Issue #23903 - stable API is incomplete On Dec 21, 2016 7:43 AM, "Steve Dower" wrote: "Ok, now why should _Py_PrintRefe

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue #23903 - stable API is incomplete

2016-12-21 Thread Steve Dower
"Victor Stinner" Sent: ‎12/‎21/‎2016 8:40 To: "Nathaniel Smith" Cc: "Steve Dower" ; "Serhiy Storchaka" ; "Python Dev" Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Issue #23903 - stable API is incomplete 2016-12-21 17:21 GMT+01:00 Nathaniel Smith : > It sounds like

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 514 and pywin32

2016-12-28 Thread Steve Dower
It's likely that they're using the broken version of bdist_wininst for their installer (I thought Mark reported the issue and had a workaround though...). It's already fixed, but hasn't been released yet. Another workaround is to use "wheel convert" on the exe and then install the wheel. You mi

Re: [Python-Dev] Document C API that is not part of the limited API

2016-12-28 Thread Steve Dower
On 28Dec2016 1145, Brett Cannon wrote: On Tue, 27 Dec 2016 at 12:15 Ronald Oussoren mailto:ronaldousso...@mac.com>> wrote: A directive would make it easier to ensure that the text about the stable API is consistent. I’d also consider adding that directive to all API’s that *are* part

Re: [Python-Dev] Can we use "designated initializer" widely in coremodules?

2017-01-17 Thread Steve Dower
Avoiding header files would be my only request. As Brett says, the C99 requirement should not be enforced on all embedders or extenders, so we should try and keep the headers they'll use as compatible as possible. Cheers, Steve Top-posted from my Windows Phone -Original Message- From:

Re: [Python-Dev] Can we use "designated initializer" widely incoremodules?

2017-01-17 Thread Steve Dower
As well as pre-C99 compilers, there are also C++ compilers to think of. It may be easier to identify the likely features we want to avoid and regex find them in the test suite. Combined with code reviews and the fact that we can change syntax in the header files whenever we want without impact (

Re: [Python-Dev] SSL certificates recommendations for downstream python packagers

2017-01-31 Thread Steve Dower
On 30Jan2017 1310, Christian Heimes wrote: On 2017-01-30 21:50, Cory Benfield wrote: On 30 Jan 2017, at 13:53, David Cournapeau wrote: Are there any official recommendations for downstream packagers beyond PEP 476 ? Is it "acceptable" for downstream packagers to patch python's default cert

Re: [Python-Dev] SSL certificates recommendations for downstreampython packagers

2017-02-01 Thread Steve Dower
rome has done it? Top-posted from my Windows Phone -Original Message- From: "Cory Benfield" Sent: ‎2/‎1/‎2017 2:03 To: "Steve Dower" Cc: "Christian Heimes" ; "David Cournapeau" ; "python-dev" Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] SSL certificates re

Re: [Python-Dev] API design: where to add async variants ofexisting stdlib APIs?

2017-03-01 Thread Steve Dower
Big +1 here, and an implicit -1 on the other suggestions. asyncio != async/await Cheers, Steve Top-posted from my Windows Phone -Original Message- From: "Nathaniel Smith" Sent: ‎2/‎28/‎2017 23:19 To: "Nick Coghlan" Cc: "python-dev@python.org" Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] API design: wh

Re: [Python-Dev] [RELEASE] Python 3.6.1rc1 is now available

2017-03-05 Thread Steve Dower
I just want to emphasize that this is a *very* important release to test, as it is the first one made after migrating the project to github. Please spend a bit of time running it through your normal build/installation steps and let us know at https://bugs.python.org/ if anything seems off. Top-

Re: [Python-Dev] Exact date of Python 2 EOL?

2017-03-23 Thread Steve Dower
On 23Mar2017 0937, Brian Curtin wrote: On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 12:19 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: On Mar 23, 2017, at 09:41 AM, Victor Stinner wrote: Can we pick an official date? Benjamin should pick the date and update PEP 373. Not to start a bikeshed (calendarshed?), but how about 8 Februar

Re: [Python-Dev] What version is an extension module binary compatible with

2017-03-28 Thread Steve Dower
On 28Mar2017 1035, Paul Moore wrote: On 28 March 2017 at 18:05, Glenn Linderman wrote: Somewhere I got the idea that extension authors were supposed to build against the n.m.0 releases, expressly so that the extensions would then be compatible with the whole n.m.x series of releases. Did I drea

Re: [Python-Dev] windows installer and python list mention

2017-04-10 Thread Steve Dower
On 10Apr2017 1032, Ethan Furman wrote: Apparently the Windows installer mentions asking for help on Python List. Yay! People actually read some of that text in the installer :) Currently the installer has the following message after you run a Repair (from Tools/msi/bundle/Default.wxl): > Fe

Re: [Python-Dev] Installing a newly-built python on windows

2017-04-16 Thread Steve Dower
You'll want to look at tools/msi/build.bat and buildrelease.bat. The former should produce a test installer that should be isolated from a regular install (though it may not be perfect), while the latter is used for the official release. If you're going to use the latter and redistribute the r

[Python-Dev] Deprecate invalid ctypes call protection on Windows

2017-05-22 Thread Steve Dower
One of the main reasons we are stuck with an old libffi fork in CPython is because the newer versions do not support protection from calling functions with too few/many arguments: https://docs.python.org/3/library/ctypes.html?highlight=ctypes#calling-functions There are a number of caveats her

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecate invalid ctypes call protection on Windows

2017-05-23 Thread Steve Dower
On 23May2017 0844, Mariatta Wijaya wrote: +1 My understanding is this is a documentation change, marking it as deprecated in 3.6.2 and a Misc News entry. No actual code change. Correct? That's correct. I'm thinking just a :note: box in that section, and then you can keep working on the 3.7 ch

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecate invalid ctypes call protection on Windows

2017-05-23 Thread Steve Dower
On 23May2017 1212, Victor Stinner wrote: 2017-05-22 13:17 GMT-05:00 Steve Dower : Once the special protection is removed, most of these cases will become OSError due to the general protection against segmentation faults. It didn't know that ctypes on Windows had a special protection ag

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: Backport ssl.MemoryBIO and ssl.SSLObject to Python 2.7

2017-06-01 Thread Steve Dower
On 01Jun2017 1010, Nathaniel Smith wrote: I believe that for answering this question about the ssl module, it's really only Linux users that matter, since pip/requests/everyone else pushing for this only want to use ssl.MemoryBIO on Linux. Their plan on Windows/MacOS (IIUC) is to stop using the

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: Backport ssl.MemoryBIO and ssl.SSLObject to Python 2.7

2017-06-08 Thread Steve Dower
I'm just going to straight up admit that I've lost track of the point of this thread. It sounds like we don't *need* to backport any of ssl into the Python 2.7 standard library, as long as we can bundle a 3rd-party backport for pip? I assume that, at a high level, the operation needed is to d

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: Backport ssl.MemoryBIO and ssl.SSLObject to Python 2.7

2017-06-08 Thread Steve Dower
On 08Jun2017 1237, Donald Stufft wrote: The basic yak stak here is: * PEP 543 should be the future, it is a much much better way of handling TLS than our current ssl module is. * Cory can’t spend his work time on PEP 543 unless he can say it is useful for requests. * In order for PEP 543 to b

Re: [Python-Dev] Extracting python bytecode from a linux core dump?

2017-06-08 Thread Steve Dower
I can’t help with the gdb commands, but I’d suggest you want to start from one of the global variables for the sys module, probably the modules dict. You’ll have to reverse engineer the memory structures to find its values and each of their dicts, eventually finding function objects pointing to

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: Backport ssl.MemoryBIO and ssl.SSLObject to Python 2.7

2017-06-09 Thread Steve Dower
On 09Jun2017 0343, Nick Coghlan wrote: So honestly, I'd be +1 for either approach: - stdlib backport to make dual-stack maintenance easier for the current volunteers, and we'll see how things work out on the ease-of-adoption front - PyPI backport to make 2.7 adoption easier, and we'll continue p

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: Backport ssl.MemoryBIO and ssl.SSLObject to Python 2.7

2017-06-09 Thread Steve Dower
On 09Jun2017 1118, Donald Stufft wrote: A ensuressl style module that tries to install an OpenSSL module is actually fairly hard to do securely. The fundamental issue being that fetching a file securely from the network before you have the primary tool for fetching things securely from a networ

Re: [Python-Dev] On "PEP 546 — Backport ssl.MemoryBIO and ssl.SSLObject to Python 2.7"

2017-06-10 Thread Steve Dower
Agreed, that’s good reasoning. Thanks for short-circuiting the discussion! Cheers, Steve Top-posted from my Windows phone From: Benjamin Peterson Sent: Friday, June 9, 2017 16:59 To: python-dev@python.org Subject: [Python-Dev] On "PEP 546 — Backport ssl.MemoryBIO and ssl.SSLObject to Python 2.7

Re: [Python-Dev] test_sax and test_random fail on Python 3.6.2rc1 on Windows

2017-06-21 Thread Steve Dower
: Victor Stinner Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 2:27 To: Python Dev; Steve Dower Subject: test_sax and test_random fail on Python 3.6.2rc1 on Windows Hi, The end-of-line hell is not over, test_sax and test_random tests are still failing if you install Python 3.6.2rc1 on Windows: http

Re: [Python-Dev] test_sax and test_random fail on Python 3.6.2rc1 on Windows

2017-06-21 Thread Steve Dower
I’ll clean it up and try again to see if it repros or was a random occurrence. Top-posted from my Windows phone From: Victor Stinner Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 7:23 To: Steve Dower Cc: Python Dev Subject: Re: test_sax and test_random fail on Python 3.6.2rc1 on Windows 2017-06-21 16:10 GMT+02

Re: [Python-Dev] test_sax and test_random fail on Python 3.6.2rc1 on Windows

2017-06-21 Thread Steve Dower
On 21Jun2017 0736, Victor Stinner wrote: Thank you Steve for looking at this issue and to work on our Windows installer :-) No worries. So we didn't ship 3.6.2rc1 with LF line endings instead of CRLF - those are fine. These issues are due to .gitattributes changing for test data files, but t

Re: [Python-Dev] Appveyor builds fail on Windows for 3.6 backports.

2017-06-23 Thread Steve Dower
We could improve life for everyone even more if we built Tcl/Tk once per update and made it a binary dependency. Nobody is updating our version of it regularly anyway, and this would significantly improve build time in CI. The externals script probably just needs some retry logic. Doesn’t look l

Re: [Python-Dev] New workflow change: Welcome to blurb

2017-06-23 Thread Steve Dower
One quick heads up – the NEWS file is included in the docs build (if not in the html docs, certainly in the CHM for Windows releases). You may have to do some extra work to keep that from breaking when you remove it. We might also include it as plain text in the installers, I forget right now.

[Python-Dev] Proposal for C++ metaclasses

2017-06-27 Thread Steve Dower
Thought this might be interesting for those of us who live deeper in the language than most – this is the formal proposal to add metaclasses to C++. http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2017/p0707r0.pdf Given the differences between Python and C++, it’s obviously got a different a

Re: [Python-Dev] Buildbot report (almost July)

2017-06-29 Thread Steve Dower
On 29Jun2017 1013, Terry Reedy wrote: Great work. Agreed. Thanks, Victor! How about compiler warnings (and errors)? When I compile on Windows, there are a boatload of orange-yellow warnings. Some are about using a deprecated featured; some about dodgy casts; some (I presume) about other t

Re: [Python-Dev] Buildbot report (almost July)

2017-06-29 Thread Steve Dower
On 29Jun2017 1157, Terry Reedy wrote: On 6/29/2017 1:54 PM, Steve Dower wrote: Some warnings are also complicated because of the nature of CPython. For example, the socket module exposes deprecated CRT functions (on Windows) directly because the API of the socket module promises to provide

Re: [Python-Dev] Python startup time

2017-07-22 Thread Steve Dower
I believe the trend is due to language like Python and Node.js, most of which aggressively discourage threading (more from the broader community than the core languages, but I see a lot of apps using these now), and also the higher reliability afforded by out-of-process tasks (that is, one crash

Re: [Python-Dev] Python startup time

2017-07-22 Thread Steve Dower
for NTFS to amortize calls better. Perhaps not, but it is still the most expensive part of startup that we have any ability to change, so it’s worth investigating. Cheers, Steve Top-posted from my Windows phone From: Brett Cannon Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 10:18 To: Steve Dower; Alex Walters

Re: [Python-Dev] PyThreadState_GET() returns NULL from within PyImport_GetModuleDict()

2017-08-08 Thread Steve Dower
On 07Aug2017 2231, Patrick Rutkowski wrote: So, it seems to be the case that picking a mismatched python binary causes the crash, __but only with python3, not with python36__. This makes me wonder what the differences is between the two in the first place. I was getting the crash to begin with be

[Python-Dev] [ANN] Daily Windows builds of Python 3.x

2017-08-08 Thread Steve Dower
Hi all As part of a deal with Zach Ware at PyCon, I agreed that if he removed the Subversion dependency from our builds, I would set up daily Windows builds of Python. Zach did an excellent job, and so I am now following through on my half of the deal :) For a while I've been uploading the o

Re: [Python-Dev] Interrupt thread.join() with Ctrl-C / KeyboardInterrupt on Windows

2017-08-08 Thread Steve Dower
On 08Aug2017 1151, Nathaniel Smith wrote: It looks like Thread.join ultimately ends up blocking in Python/thread_nt.h:EnterNonRecursiveMutex, which has a maze of #ifdefs behind it -- I think there are 3 different implementation you might end up with, depending on how CPython was built? Two of the

Re: [Python-Dev] Interrupt thread.join() with Ctrl-C / KeyboardInterrupt on Windows

2017-08-08 Thread Steve Dower
On 08Aug2017 1512, Nathaniel Smith wrote: On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 2:29 PM, Steve Dower wrote: On 08Aug2017 1151, Nathaniel Smith wrote: It looks like Thread.join ultimately ends up blocking in Python/thread_nt.h:EnterNonRecursiveMutex, which has a maze of #ifdefs behind it -- I think there

[Python-Dev] Python's Windows code-signing certificate

2017-08-10 Thread Steve Dower
Just a heads-up, primarily for Marc-Andre, but letting everyone know for awareness. Next time we need to renew the PSF code signing certificate used for Windows releases, we will need to use a different CA. Our current certificate is from StartCom, who are losing their status as a trusted CA

[Python-Dev] PEP 551: Security transparency in the Python runtime

2017-08-28 Thread Steve Dower
will update at some point, but is a little behind the version in the repo.) Cheers, Steve - PEP: 551 Title: Security transparency in the Python runtime Version: $Revision$ Last-Modified: $Date$ Author: Steve Dower Dis

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 551: Security transparency in the Python runtime

2017-08-28 Thread Steve Dower
On 28Aug2017 1815, Steven D'Aprano wrote: Very nicely written. A few comments below. On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 04:55:19PM -0700, Steve Dower wrote: [...] This PEP describes additions to the Python API and specific behaviors for the CPython implementation that make actions taken by the P

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 551: Security transparency in the Python runtime

2017-08-28 Thread Steve Dower
On 28Aug2017 1834, Gregory P. Smith wrote: My gut feeling says that there are N interpreters available on just about every bloated system image out there. Multiple pythons are often among them, other we do not control will also continue to exist. I expect a small initial payload can be created th

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 551: Security transparency in the Python runtime

2017-08-28 Thread Steve Dower
On 28Aug2017 1926, Chris Angelico wrote: On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 12:23 PM, Steve Dower wrote: Check your line lengths, I think they may be too long? (Or maybe my mail client is set too short?) Yeah, not sure what's happened here. Are PEPs supposed to be 80? Or 72? According to the

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