On Sat, 01 May 2010 16:18:19 +0100, Paul Moore wrote:
> On 1 May 2010 15:28, R. David Murray wrote:
> > Unless I'm missing something, I don't see any docs there about the
> > automated build process and when and where it runs.
>
> I assume Georg was referring
ntial new contributer' lurking here feels
> otherwise?
> - speak up!).
>
> I don't know the community (yet) and I can't say this for sure, but my current
> gut feeling about the Python community (and pretty much any OSS I can think
> of) is that in the long ru
On Sun, 02 May 2010 00:44:22 +0200, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=
wrote:
> R. David Murray wrote:
> > On Sat, 01 May 2010 16:18:19 +0100, Paul Moore wrote:
> >> On 1 May 2010 15:28, R. David Murray wrote:
> >>> Unless I'm missing something, I
On Mon, 10 May 2010 20:40:00 +0400, Oleg Broytman wrote:
> On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 04:09:06PM +0200, Ronald Oussoren wrote:
> > Does anyone know of a way to teach vim that C sources in a python checkout
> > should have 4-space indents without changing the defaults for other C
> > files?
>
> Bu
s (which are the bulk of the traffic on the tracker) once they
bother to notice it. I'm not convinced that hit count load is the
problem, but it might be.
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> *1* argument is actually required instead of 2?
You can contribute to issue 2516 if you like :)
http://bugs.python.org/issue2516
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ot;arguments" while no arguments are actually involved in
> the problem: just a class I forgot to initialize.
That second message is entirely accurate and IMO should not be changed.
As Michael said, calling an unbound method is not that uncom
ng like "I think
this PEP is ready for pronouncement" and then wait for feedback on that
assertion or for the pronouncement. It's especially good if you can answer
any concerns that are raised with "that was discussed already and we
concluded X". Bonus point
On Sat, 22 May 2010 10:09:37 -0400, Jesse Noller wrote:
> On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 9:59 AM, R. David Murray wr=
> ote:
> > On Sat, 22 May 2010 19:12:05 +1000, Brian Quinlan wr=
> ote:
> >> On May 22, 2010, at 5:30 AM, Dj Gilcrease wrote:
> >> > On Fri, Ma
g an exception to the moratorium for
translate/untranslate is justified, given that this is restoring a
feature that Python2 had, in a Python3 compatible manner.
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o a lot of work:
http://unicode.org/mail-arch/unicode-ml/y2007-m12/0047.html
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done with .encode('ascii')/.decode('ascii').
>
> Changing the type of *ascii* text is easy, understanding bytes vs str
> semantics is not!
+1
Consistency in interface is more important in *this* context than the
sensibleness of any particular transform.
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l6 work will lay a firm foundation for the latter, but URI/IRI
is a whole different protocol that I'm glad I don't have to deal with :)
> The virtues of a separate poly_str type are that:
Having such a poly_str type would probably make my life easier.
I also would like just vent
allow you to decode to text
only the bits you actually need to access and manipulate.
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t to email. (1) I suspect that the new API will be enough of a
carrot that they won't mind converting to it, BUT, (2) the plan is to
provide a compatibility API that will fully support the current Python3
email5 API (but with fewer bugs in areas such as header folding and
> > s...@i
> >
> > being equivalent to
> >
> > s[i:i+1]
> >
>
> And this is way beyond being intuitive.
Agreed, -1 on that. Like I said, I was just venting. The decision
to have indexing bytes return an int is
can shed more light on this?
Given the current state of the email package for python3, it makes
sense that it would open them in text mode. email can't currently
process bytes, only text.
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xt
*correctly*. This isn't a trivial undertaking, but the end result
will be well worth it.
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ns to be the one you use when you wrap
the binary stream as a text stream.
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bout this (or at least related to it):
http://bugs.python.org/issue8595
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then we cut
over" before the balance of the dev community is going to actually try
working with it. But one or more volunteers could make the first cut
at the workflow docs right now, I would think, and that would be a big
help for this process
I know I would have prefe
ould also be great if every committer could find time to look at
one bug *outside* of their main interest area for every N hours
they spend on their interest area. (I try to do this, with varying
degrees of success depending on the week.)
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ti". Otherwise we can just decide that those
I like this suggestion, but obviously we need to let those developers
who wish to do this "star" themselves.
If there are no objections to this change to maintainers.rst, I'll
start the ball rolling by marking myself for email, and a
mmitter ids*. I noticed the other
day that I had to translate from committer id to tracker id for someone
(I forget who, and I didn't have time to update the file at the time).
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ow to both of you.
>
> As for assigning bugs, I've been told to use the maintainer.rst list, so
> either the list is wrong, or I've had finger problems. If it's the
> latter I again say sorry.
I suggested you use maintainers.rst to find people to ad
who hang out
on #python-dev do triage work. Further, many of the people who chat
regularly on the IRC channel are committers, which is one of the reasons
why it can be a rich resource while doing triage. Often enough, bugs
get closed that way.[*]
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but if
it is just lacking in the detail of the explanations, then the tutorial
is the place for those, and you say that is OK.
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o your work, and also on the
fact that I have seen the quality of your work improve over time from
the bugs I have reviewed that you've commented on.
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[*] I think this may be a source of some of the discomfort you have
I'd go with putting it in shutil. We could also add a function there
that wraps up the recipe in issue 9311 to work around the quirks of
os.access on FreeBSD (and possibly other platforms).
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list
> is somewhat arbitrary with narrow components such as ctypes and broad
> components such a Lib.
When I suggested such a modules list on
<http://wiki.python.org/moin/DesiredTrackerFeatures>, R. David Murray
replied âThis has been suggested and rejected a number of times on
python-devâ bu
opted.
There's nothing in your proposal that is outside of your control,
as far as I can tell.
(Well, except for easy_install not being in the stdlib, but that's
no barrier to adoption of the proposed tool.)
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_
ness is the grease that
keeps the gears of society working smoothly. Your not "wasting time"
being a "polite bastard" is the equivalent of deliberately throwing sand
in the gears. It is, to say the least, counter-productive to your stated
goals of improving the Python workflow for y
ntly added the old re cache-clearing strategy to
fnmatch, because previously its cache would grow indefinitely.
It sounds like this should be applied there as well.
That's three...time to figure out how to share the code?
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ific.
Anyone who cares about config file locations should read issue 7175.
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On Sun, 01 Aug 2010 21:28:05 +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 5:41 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> > I plucked this figure out of the air thinking that if an issue was going to
> > drop under the radar, this would be the most likely time. I was considering
> > a worst case scenario
27;t see a downside to
that. Most unix applications look in multiple places for configuration
info.
Michael seems to be arguing for not using the standard OSX locations
because the Finder can't edit them anyway. Is that true?
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t;
> +tests = list(tests)
I guess you didn't notice that just above this code is a clause that
says 'if forever' which implements -F/--forever by making tests into a
generator that never runs out...
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On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 21:51:11 -0400, "R. David Murray"
wrote:
> On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 20:59:52 +0200, georg.brandl
> wrote:
> > Author: georg.brandl
> > Date: Mon Aug 2 20:59:52 2010
> > New Revision: 83543
Hmm. Looking at the format of this message as it c
x27;t exist.
Fixed. Apparently a line was dropped when applying a patch to
the tracker, but the mistake didn't surface until roundup
was restarted after the reboot.
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Am I missing something, or this a missing feature?
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On Tue, 03 Aug 2010 12:22:30 -0500, Benjamin Peterson
wrote:
> 2010/8/3 R. David Murray :
> > So I thought I'd break the exception chain before raising the error the
> > test harness really wants to raise. However, I can't figure out any way
> > to do that. Am
On Tue, 03 Aug 2010 20:36:36 +0200, Georg Brandl wrote:
> Am 03.08.2010 19:05, schrieb Brian Curtin:
> > On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 11:58, R. David Murray
> > Fixed. Apparently a line was dropped when applying a patch to
> > the tracker, but the mistake didn&#x
Hmm. If we added a 'binsearch' option to regrtest, you could just
pass it the random seed and that option and off it would go...
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eek. He's going to fix
that.
> > Issues closed (154)
> > ===
> >
> > #1474680: pickling files works with protocol=2.
> > http://bugs.python.org/issue1474680 closed by alexandre.vassalotti
> > [...]
>
> This is the list of *all* the is
On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 15:13:34 +0100, Mark Lawrence
wrote:
> Suffering from dead parrot syndrome? Kiss of life please :)
The hosting company has been notified.
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x27;re in an old-style class, you shouldn't get an double
> underscore methods in __getattr__ (or __getattribute__). If you do,
> it's a bug.
Benjamin, I remember you fixing various special method lookups, so just
for clarity's sake, which versions of Python d
yourself there.
All help is welcome! It is not a "porting" project strictly
speaking, but it certainly is interesting :)
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On Tue, 14 Sep 2010 16:34:33 +0530, Senthil Kumaran wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 12:44:30PM +0200, Baptiste Carvello wrote:
> > >Antoine> Like the email package, nntplib in py3k is broken (because of
> > >Antoine> various bytes/str mismatches; I suppose the lack of a test
> > >Anto
ing strings.
It also has to use slice notation rather than indexing when looking at
individual characters, which is a PITA but not terrible.
I'm not saying this is the best approach, since this is all experimental
code at the moment, but it is *an* approach
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On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 17:40:53 +0200, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 11:30:12 -0400
> "R. David Murray" wrote:
> >
> > And then BaseHeader uses self.lit.colon, etc, when manipulating strings.
> > It also has to use slice notation rather than index
On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 18:11:30 -0400, Glyph Lefkowitz
wrote:
> On Sep 16, 2010, at 4:51 PM, R. David Murray wrote:
>
> > Given a message, there are many times you want to serialize it as text
> > (for example, for presentation in a UI). You could provide alternate
> >
On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 00:05:12 +0200, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 16:51:58 -0400
> "R. David Murray" wrote:
> >
> > What do we store in the model? We could say that the model is always
> > text. But then we lose information about the origin
On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 21:53:17 -0400, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> And of course, what happens if the original subject is in one charset and the
> prefix is in an incompatible one? Then you end up with a wire format of two
> RFC 2047 encoded words separated by whitespace. You have to keep those chunks
>
On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 23:45:12 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:
> Based on the discussion so far, I think you should go ahead and
> implement the API agreed on by the mail sig both because is *has* been
> agreed on (and thinking about the wsgi discussion, that seems to be a
> major achievement) and beca
On Mon, 20 Sep 2010 06:55:50 +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 3:27 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> >
> > For the record, the code is pretty much done now:
> > http://bugs.python.org/issue9360
>
> Generally looks pretty reasonable. As I noted on the issue, my one
> concern is that
On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 19:18:35 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 9/22/2010 6:47 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> > Now I understand that opinions over this may vary and involve multiple
> > factors, but I would suggest that at least a bit of mentoring is needed
> > if we want to give privileges early on.
>
opinion on that aspect of it.
For me the change is about making it easier for the dev community
(who are using/creating the development infrastructure) to update the
relevant documentation.
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On Thu, 23 Sep 2010 10:41:35 -0400, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On Sep 23, 2010, at 09:06 AM, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
> >Are any of our docs subject to release schedules?
>
> I guess what I'm concerned about is this scenario:
>
> You're a developer who has the source code to Python 3.1. You read the
h of somebodies who *do* care, then the wiki
would be much more useful. But I still don't want to edit the
dev docs there, if I have a choice :) There's a reason I stopped
updating the wiki as soon as I moved to a code repository.
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es
was causing significant problems on the tracker, and so we were forced
to disable his account. This disabling does not need to be permanent.
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ng os specific rather than file system type specific is the usability bug.
But to fix it we'll need to introduce a 'filesystems' module enumerating
the different file systems we support, with tools for figuring out
what filesystem your program is talking to. But normacase still,
wouldn'
On Sat, 25 Sep 2010 14:22:06 +0200, Georg Brandl wrote:
> Am 25.09.2010 14:10, schrieb "Martin v. L=F6wis":
> > The total numbers reported are really the totals. Also, the delta
> > reported for the totals is the difference to the last report.
>
> > The number reported with +/- for open/closed ar
to tell the browser to
*stop* using basic auth.
> imagine that only "ultra geeks" know their URIs (I have no idea what the
> URI for a Google account is). But, I don't see this as being worthwhile
Well, my OpenId is 'david.bitdance.com', so even if you could get aro
A while back on some issue or another I remember telling someone that
if there was any sort of clever hack that would allow the current email
package (email5) to work with bytes we would have implemented it.
Well, I've come up with a clever hack.
The idea came out of a conversation with Antoine.
On Sat, 02 Oct 2010 19:15:57 -0500, Benjamin Peterson
wrote:
> 2010/10/2 R. David Murray :
> > Regardless of whether or not this patch or a descendant thereof is
> > accepted I still intend to continue working on email6. =C2=A0There are ma=
> ny
> > other bugs in the cu
On Mon, 04 Oct 2010 12:32:26 -0400, Scott Dial
wrote:
> On 10/2/2010 7:00 PM, R. David Murray wrote:
> > The clever hack (thanks ultimately to Martin) is to accept 8bit data
> > by encoding it using the ASCII codec and the surrogateescape error
> > handler.
>
> I&#x
On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 22:05:33 +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 3:41 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull
> wrote:
> > R. David Murray writes:
> > > Only if the email package contains a coding error would the
> > > surrogates escape and cause problems for user
with bytes sometimes and strs sometimes.
>
> Please provide a way to return strs-with-surrogates if I ask for them.
Does my proposal make sense? But note, it raises exactly the backward
compatibility concerns you mention in your next email (that I will r
On Wed, 06 Oct 2010 22:55:00 +0900, "Stephen J. Turnbull"
wrote:
> R. David Murray writes:
>
> > version of headers to the email5 API, but since any such data would
> > be non-RFC compliant anyway, [access to non-conforming headers by
> > reparsing the bytes
On Thu, 07 Oct 2010 03:31:34 +0900, "Stephen J. Turnbull"
wrote:
> R. David Murray writes:
>
> > 5. Return the content, with non-ASCII bytes replaced with ?
> > characters.
>
> That hadn't occurred to me (and it makes me sick to contemplate it)
Stephen J. Turnbull xemacs.org> writes:
> R. David Murray writes:
> > We're (in the current patch) not punting on handling non-conforming
> > email, we're punting on handling non-conforming bytes *if the headers
> > that contain them need to be mo
t all programs
using difflib use it to generate diffs for direct output. (2) might
be worth it given that there is a "standard" to follow so it might be
worth coding that standard into the stdlib.
> Orthogonal: *After* a decision is made for
On Thu, 07 Oct 2010 15:00:04 +0900, "Stephen J. Turnbull"
wrote:
> R. David Murray writes:
>
> > > But that's not interesting; you did that with Python 3. We want to
> > Of course I did it with Python3. It's the Python3 email codebase
>
changes (that is, we don't do it intentionally without
a good reason and a deprecation cycle, and if we do it unintentionally
it is a regression and treated as such).
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vocate here.
Obviously the issues directly affect you, so hopefully it is worth
your time to engage us on this topic.
And thank you for the messages you have sent. I know they have made
me even more careful than I was already trying to be.
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g at, although in
practice I think you have to hang wire-format and text-format bits off
of appropriate places in the model in order to keep everything properly
coordinated.
> Maybe even in email5
I suspect that's pushing it. Patches happily accepted, though :)
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if you see examples where we are failing in that goal, call us on it
(with specifics).
> to offer, except to underscore again that changes made here affect
> very many people who are too busy using Python to participate here.
> Especially given the still tentative state of 3.X, stabi
n the direction of structure
by breaking lines at "obvious" places like ';'s. (Which line breaking
algorithm is the subject of at least one bug report)
I'd like to fix that in email6 by adding full support for structured
headers.
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et sorted out).
>
> I don't understand why this is difficult. As far as what Unicode has
It isn't difficult in principle. It's just difficult in email5.
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On Sat, 09 Oct 2010 02:48:23 +0900, "Stephen J. Turnbull"
wrote:
> R. David Murray writes:
> > On Sat, 09 Oct 2010 01:06:29 +0900, "Stephen J. Turnbull"
> wrote:
> > > That mess is entirely unnecessary in Python 3. Text and wire format
> > >
an end to that naming scheme, and that's a shame.
>
> Anyway, I can always alias pysetup to cheeseshop or ohmightytim on my
> machine and reminisce.
Or thebookofarmaments.
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s of Python's
normal backward compatibility policy.
In other words, you should move this discussion to python-ideas.
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On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 19:33:52 +0200,
=?windows-1252?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?= wrote:
> > So as well as pysetup.py/.exe I would like pysetup-3.2.py / .exe on
> > Windows please. (I'd really like a python-3.2.exe as well.)
>
> Please submit a patch to the installer, then.
>
> I'm still skeptic
t?
Good question :)
When I added this it seemed like such a simple thing. Maybe the
endianness issue is the one to look at, despite the pass on Solaris.
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following issues
> could be commited: 4499, 678250, 730467.
I've committed #9862, #4499 and #678250. I'd like a confirming opinion
on #730467, though it sounds reasonable to me.
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l Stutzbach and I are (were) two users of the second meaning. Itâs
> more useful to follow Raymondâs meaning, so that a simple query can find
> all accepted patches that are awaiting commit.
>
> I donât remember if I took up this use from R. David Murray or someone
> else,
ing it 'unit test needed', but if
people would rather change it back to just 'test needed', I will raise
no objection, since in practice trying to squeeze the meaning I wanted
into the stage field doesn't really work.
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tting users groups to participate).
I'll be around and able to participate that weekend except for evening
US Eastern time.
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ducing a new directory and having multiple files that cross-import
> one another.
+1 (or more)
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On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 16:46:15 -0400, Michael Foord wrote:
> On 26/10/2010 15:05, R. David Murray wrote:
> > On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 10:39:19 -0700, Raymond
> > Hettinger wrote:
> >> If someone wants to reorganize code for clarity, I would prefer keeping
> >> it
d I'm not saying that packages are always bad.
I'm just saying that packages are also not always good; and, further,
that the number of lines of code in a file should, IMO, have nothing to
do with the decision as to whether or not to create a packa
But the reality is that almost all those Python2 users are future Python3
users, so they *are* the future user base. And like Georg said, as far
as we can see Python3 uptake is pretty much right on the schedule that
was predicted when it was first released.
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es of 2.7 are worth the effort, we will, I'm
sure, continue to produce them.
What *new features* are needed in 2.x? I think the effort required
to set up and maintain a fork is a good measure of whether or not such
features are *valuable enough* to be worth doing. If they are, someone
will do
eems like it would need to be documented, even though
it would in a lot of cases just be used through assertEqual.
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On Sat, 30 Oct 2010 18:36:45 +0200, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Oct 2010 12:02:27 -0400
> "R. David Murray" wrote:
> >
> > I don't disagree with this simplification, but given that you all want
> > to pare down the unittest API, I'd be in
7;s no biggie to have an optional style argument for basicConfig.
> People who don't use it don't have to specify it; the style argument would
> only
> apply if format was specified.
>
> For some people, use of {} over % is more about personal taste than about the
>
hm is stable, which means the above
> behaviour is a feature. I see no easy way of eliminating the O(n*n)
> issue. Custom key functions can't work in all cases.
Even granting some theoretical way to sort sets by their contents, it
still wouldn't be a bu
le,
so that is in fact *not* an invariant:
>>> x = ['abcd', 'foo'*50, 'foo'*50, 'dkke']
>>> y = x[::-1]
>>> [id(n) for n in sorted(x)]
[3073747680, 3073747904, 3073747624, 3073747512]
>>> [id(n) for n in sorted(y)]
[3073747680,
On Mon, 01 Nov 2010 15:14:36 -, Michael Foord
wrote:
> On 01/11/2010 15:10, R. David Murray wrote:
> > On Mon, 01 Nov 2010 14:26:19 -, Michael
> > Foord wrote:
> >> Well, bug is the wrong word as it is obviously an intended feature (or
> >> consequ
imarily on the available system memory
(see: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/configtuning-kernel-limits.html)
The systems I got the above number from have 1GB of memory.
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