On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 at 20:29, Peter Moody wrote:
On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 6:17 PM, Andrew McNamara
wrote:
off to patch the pep and implement some of the non controversial changes.
It might be a good idea to add some use-cases to the PEP.
There are several use-cases in the PEP already.
The p
On Sat, 19 Sep 2009 at 12:31, Pascal Chambon wrote:
stream operations into IOErrors. Error codes are not the same as unix ones
indeed, but I don't know if it's really important (imo, most people just want
to know if the operation was successful, I don't know if many developers scan
error codes
On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 at 02:01, MRAB wrote:
Dino Viehland wrote:
Is there a reason or a rule by which CPython reports different error
message for different failures to subscript?
For example:
> > > set()[2]
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "", line 1, in
TypeError: 'set' object
On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 at 12:07, Nick Coghlan wrote:
Mark Dickinson wrote:
On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 4:54 PM, Dino Viehland wrote:
We are going to start contributing tests back real soon now. I'm not sure
that these are the best tests to contribute as they require a version of
Python to compare ag
that could run
KVM based stuff.
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On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 at 13:59, Peter Moody wrote:
On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
Peter Moody hda3.com> writes:
def parse_net_and_addr(s):
?return (IPNetwork(s), IPAddress(s.split('/')[0]))
I've only heard talk of new classes and new methods, not new
constructor func
On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 at 05:57, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
Finally, to Stephen's point about seeing the other side of the
argument, I wrote this offlist a week ago:
I *understand* what you're saying, I *understand* that
192.168.1.1/24 isn't a network,
But you still want to treat it as one.
Coul
On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 at 07:34, R. David Murray wrote:
The fundamental divide here is between two behaviors.
ipaddr:
> > > x = IPv4Network('192.168.1.1/24')
> > > y = IPv4Network('192.168.1.0/24')
> > > x == y
False
>
On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 at 10:06, David Moss wrote:
On 27 Sep 2009, at 07:56, "Martin v. L??wis" wrote:
I wouldn't ask for that: it should certainly be possible to supply
masks. However, I would want to reject masks that don't correspond to
a prefix, and have only the prefix length in the intern
On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 at 22:11, "Martin v. L??wis" wrote:
Martin v. L??wis v.loewis.de> writes:
Could you explain what benefit there is for allowing the user to create
network objects that don't represent networks? Is there a use-case
where these networks-that-aren't-networks are something other
On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 at 22:32, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
Le lundi 28 septembre 2009 ?? 22:11 +0200, "Martin v. L??wis" a ??crit :
That's not the question that was asked, though - the question asked
was "Under what circumstances would I want to specify...". I hope
most people agree that it is desirab
On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 at 13:43, Guido van Rossum wrote:
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 1:36 PM, R. David Murray wrote:
I would say that there certainly are precedents in other areas for
keeping the information about the input form around. For example,
occasionally it would be handy if parsing a hex
On Tue, 29 Sep 2009 at 14:19, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote:
In addition to the somebody-must-have-mentioned-this-already feeling that I
got, I hesitated to post this message because it doesn't actually seem that
important to me. While I'm firmly convinced that Network.ip is a design
mistake, it's not l
On Tue, 29 Sep 2009 at 15:24, R. David Murray wrote:
There's one place in this code where the inclusion of the 'ip' information
in the IPNetwork class could have been used. In the line that allows ICMP
traffic to the router's outside port, I could have written 'inside.
On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 at 11:07, Nick Coghlan wrote:
At the risk of bikeshedding a bit, I'm still somewhat uncomfortable with
the "net.network" and "net.ip" attribute names. RDMs example application
elicited the reason for that discomfort pretty well: the current naming
seems like an invitation to w
On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 at 13:27, Vinay Sajip wrote:
I'm planning to "officially" drop support for Python 1.5.2 in the logging
package.
What's the minimum version of Python that the logging module now officially
supports?
--David (RDM)
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On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 at 10:52, Paul Moore wrote:
2009/9/30 Mark Dickinson :
Please could someone who understands the uses of IPNetwork better than
I do explain why the following wouldn't be a significant problem, if __eq__
and __hash__ were modified to disregard the .ip attribute as suggested:
On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 at 13:11, Guido van Rossum wrote:
On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 4:33 AM, Mark Dickinson wrote:
On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 12:06 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
Mark Dickinson wrote:
Okay, so maybe this is an abuse of IPv4Network. ?But I'd (mis?)understood
that the retention of the .ip att
On Sat, 3 Oct 2009 at 17:08, Paul Moore wrote:
2009/10/3 Antoine Pitrou :
Steven Bethard gmail.com> writes:
? If %-formatting is to be deprecated, the transition strategy here
? is trivial. However, no one has yet written translators, and it is
? not clear what heuristics should be used, e.g.
On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 at 12:57, Barry Warsaw wrote:
On Oct 13, 2009, at 11:16 AM, Tarek Ziad? wrote:
I still need to do some more tests, I didn't have time to try the
various projects under win32.
It's planned to night.
The tests are consisting of compiling and insatling a dozain of
projects on l
On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 at 09:27, sstein...@gmail.com wrote:
Shouldn't this be on python-ideas?
IMO this question is appropriate for python-dev, not python-ideas.
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On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 at 09:55, sstein...@gmail.com wrote:
On Oct 20, 2009, at 9:43 AM, Stefan Krah wrote:
sstein...@gmail.com wrote:
> Shouldn't this be on python-ideas?
I found previous discussions about "Decimal in C" on python-dev, that's why
used this list.
python-ideas:
This list is to
On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 at 13:16, Tres Seaver wrote:
The fix for 5890 has a funny "smell" to me: copying __doc__ into the
instance dict just feels wrong. How does that work with a pure Python
class using slots? E.g.:
It doesn't. There's even a test to make sure it doesn't :)
(It raises an attrib
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 at 19:41, Jesse Noller wrote:
Then again, I know for a fact certain tests fail ONLY on certain
buildbots because of the way they're configured. For example, certain
multiprocessing tests will fail if /dev/shm isn't accessible on Linux,
and several of the buildbosts are in tigh
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 at 08:55, Jesse Noller wrote:
On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 4:53 AM, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
I'm confused: first you said they fail, now you say they get skipped.
Which one is it? I agree with R. David's analysis: if they fail, it's
a multiprocessing bug, if they get skipped, it'
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 at 09:57, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
But the real reason for having a buildbot category (or at least a keyword)
would be to be able to tag all bugs that are currently making buildbots
fail that are _not_ the result of a recent checkin. This would make
the task of finding the bu
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 at 19:46, Paul Moore wrote:
2009/10/30 C. Titus Brown :
Once things are up and running, I'll be prepared to do basic care and
feeding of the buildslave, but as my time is limited, it would be nice
if others would pitch in to help.
I would be somewhat unhappy about giving mo
On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 at 10:09, Guido van Rossum wrote:
On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
[Guido van Rossum]
I'm -0 on backporting nonlocal to 2.7. I could be +0 if we added "from
__future__ import nonlocal_keyword" (or some such phrasing) to enable
it.
With the "from
On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 at 22:17, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
I don't currently have an opinion on this backport proposal, but in
regard to this argument: if we do not do any 2.x releases after 2.7,
then over time the number of packages that can afford to drop 2.6 support
will grow, yet many will need t
On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 at 22:06, Guido van Rossum wrote:
On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 9:51 PM, sstein...@gmail.com wrote:
BeautifulSoup, which I use every day, is one such product. ?Since the crappy
old SMGL parser's gone, BeautifulSoup uses the one that's left in Python 3
and it makes BeautifulSoup comp
The buildbot waterfall is much greener now. Thanks to all who have
contributed to making it so (and it hasn't just been Mark and Antoine
and I, though we've been the most directly active (and yes, Mark, you
did contribute several fixes!)).
The 'stable builders' fleet is green now except for:
On Sun, 8 Nov 2009 at 19:44, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
JFTR, I didn't set up the IRC bot (I assume that credit goes to Martin,
even if it's only one line in the buildbot config :). I just tried to
get it to say something :)
Yes, it was always "on". I don't use IRC regularly, so I don't know
whe
On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 at 15:42, Terry Reedy wrote:
Part of the pypi problem is a startup problem of initially low numbers. If
the only people who bother to log in to rate are the disgruntled, then the
ratings/reviews will be biased. I wonder how many of the people promoting the
new feature have t
On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 at 00:09, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
Martin v. L??wis v.loewis.de> writes:
The buildbots still show occasional oddities. For example, right now in
the page "http://www.python.org/dev/buildbot/3.x/";, some results have
disappeared (the columns for "AMD64 Ubuntu" builders have be
There are non-stable buildbots that are failing consistently, but this
message is about something else. Now that the biggest stability
issues have been addressed some less-noisy stability issues are visible.
The two that I have noticed most often are test_httpsservers, which
hangs occasionally, a
On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 at 10:31, Greg Hewgill wrote:
I've constructed an example program that does not leak memory in Python
2.x, but causes unbounded memory allocation in Python 3.1. Here is the
code:
import gc
import sys
class E(Exception):
def __init__(self, fn):
self.fn = fn
def c
On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 18:23:11 +0100, Lennart Regebro wrote:
> If the exception format has changed, I consider it a bug. Possibly a
> bug in doctest, as the only way to test for exceptions in that case is
> like this:
>
> >>> try:
> ... throw_an_exception()
> ... print "Did not t
On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 01:49:33 +0100, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Tarek_Ziad=E9?=
wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Ben Finney
> wrote:
> > I don't see any information in the PEP for alternate proposals that were
> > made during its drafting. It's customary to explain what alternative
> > proposals ha
#x27;d also like to point out that IMO the idea behind the one-for-five offer
is to leverage the "I have an itch to scratch" energy to the benefit of
all and, just as important (and as Martin already pointed out), perhaps
set some new people on the path to b
>=, etc, operators,
so I think talking about changing the proposed syntax radically is
probably misplaced.
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Business Process Automation - Network/Server Management - Routers/Firewalls
On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 11:41:28 +, Chris Withers
wrote:
> Nick Coghlan wrote:
> > I'm pretty sure the bugs list is still the primary spooled notification
> > mechanism:
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-bugs-list
>
> That's what I was after, thanks!
Just for completeness, ther
le
if you grant him tracker privs.
Brian, I assume you'll be cognizant of Antoine's advice about making
sure a bug really should be closed before closing it :) Hanging out in
#python-dev on freenode while working on issues can be helpful, as well,
since you can quickly ask whoever is there
theory is that we close a lot of bugs fairly
promptly, but the ones in the above categories make the average age of
*open* issues high.
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Business Process Automation - Network/Server Management - Routers/Firewalls
(*) For
al.
By the way, you could talk to people who aren't going to be at the
summit on #python-dev; I think all the currently tracker-active people
hang out there on a regular basis.
I'll have to give some thought to what changes/improvements might be
most useful, now that I've been doi
the transition to python3. It could be that "use virtualenv"
is the best answer, but I feel we should think about it carefully to
make sure that is really true.
[1] http://bugs.python.org/issue2375
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Business Process
r operations you might otherwise perform at the shell command line using
OS facilities. As far as I can tell, archive_util does the same, and
seems quite within the shutil mission of "high level file operations".
So +1 from me for putting thes
ewly regenerated article
> numbers matched the originals. I'd highly recommend going through that
> painful process, since I suspect a *lot* of people have links to the
> python-dev archive. Hope you have a backup (or can find caches on
> google or archive.org or someth
implementation in the import machinery.
> * Would a moratorium on byte code changes, similar to the language
> moratorium described in PEP 3003 [16]_ be a better approach to
> pursue, and would that solve the problem for vendors? At the time
> of this writing, PEP 3003 is s
On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 20:37:32 -0800, Jeffrey Yasskin wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 30, 2010 at 8:22 PM, Vitor Bosshard wrote:
> > A trickier case: My GUI app offers scripting facilities. The
> > associated open file dialog hides all .pyc files, and users select
> > just from .py files. if subfolders are in
> > I don't know whether I in favour of using a single pyr folder or not
> > but if a single folder is used I'd definitely prefer the folder to be
> > called __pyr__ rather than .pyr.
>
> And to come complete with standard library functions to find
Python version. Or is something
missing from my understanding? If not, I think the motivation section
should address why the PEP is a better idea than improving the os
packaging systems as I've suggested. (The os vendors are going to have
to change details of their packaging systems if the
at
> need to be solved, and an explanation of why each individual solution
> has flaws, prepare for this conversation to take a few more weeks.
Well, I certainly don't want the conversation to take a few more months.
I'm not against the PEP, I'
se makes managing
the test data easier, and makes it available to other test frameworks
to reuse the data.
So, having the connection to the database set up once at TestCase start,
and closed at TestCase end, would make the most sense. Currently there's
no way I know of to do that, so
lpful you'll get noticed and offered tracker privs and be
able to help even more. Related to this is the offer that Martin made
and I have seconded: if someone wants attention paid to a particular
issue, review five others and let Martin and/or I
the code than the equivalent setUp and tearDown
methods would be.
I'm not saying it would be easy to implement, and as you say backward
compatibility is a key concern.
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_
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:08:54 +, Michael Foord
wrote:
> On 11/02/2010 15:56, R. David Murray wrote:
> > On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:41:37 +, Michael
> > Foord wrote:
> >> On 11/02/2010 12:30, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> >>> The test framework might promi
On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 06:40:00 +0100, wrote:
> Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> > Le Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:46:41 +0100, Martin v. Löwis a écrit :
> >>> It's time to comment and review.
> >> Unfortunately, it's not. I strongly object to any substantial change to
> >> the code base without explicit approval by
On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:35:42 -0700, Dj Gilcrease wrote:
> On 2/19/10, P.J. Eby wrote:
> > At 01:49 PM 2/19/2010 -0500, Ian Bicking wrote:
> >>I'm not sure how this should best work on Windows (without symlinks,
> >>and where things generally work differently), but I would hope if
> >>this idea is
I believe Brett mentioned the 'languishing' status for the tracker in
passing in his notes from the language summit.
To expand on this: the desire for this arises from the observation
that we have a lot of bugs in the tracker that we don't want to close,
because they are real bugs or non-crazy enh
On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:28:41 +, Florent Xicluna
wrote:
> R. David Murray bitdance.com> writes:
>
> > I believe Brett mentioned the 'languishing' status for the tracker in
> > passing in his notes from the language summit.
>
> I see a bunch of e
On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 01:35:03 +0100, Georg Brandl wrote:
> Am 22.02.2010 21:28, schrieb Florent Xicluna:
> > I did not find any documentation about them in both places:
> > * http://wiki.python.org/moin/TrackerDocs/ "Tracker documentation"
> > * http://www.python.org/dev/workflow/ "Issue workflow
On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:13:10 +, Florent Xicluna
wrote:
> I am a semi-regular contributor for Python: I have contributed many patches
> since end of last year, some of them were reviewed by Antoine.
> Lately, he suggested that I should apply for commit rights.
+1
--David
dule was about or what a 'future' was, or why I would
want to use one. I did get that it was about parallel execution of tasks,
but it seemed like there had to be more to it than that. Hearing it
called a 'worker pool' makes a lightbulb go off
ool_argument('--plot')
> >
> > +1, this looks good.
>
> I've added it to the argparse bugtracker, along with my suggested spelling
> add_flag():
>
>http://code.google.com/p/argparse/issues/detail?id=62
Shou
he discussion should be added to
the PEP, or a summary of it. If I remember correctly the BDFL even
weighed in on this point.
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htt
oesn't always
happen when it should.
The roundup code lives in the SVN repository, and you can set up your own
instance of the tracker to experiment with changes. Patches are welcome,
although we have a few in the meta-tracker[1] already that haven't been
reviewed. Currently Martin is p
On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 14:09:28 -0400, Zvezdan Petkovic wrote:
> On Mar 19, 2010, at 1:15 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> > On 3/19/2010 10:22 AM, R. David Murray wrote:
> >> This can be done by anyone just by saying, eg: 'see issue 1234' (roundup
> >> turns that into
On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 12:39:58 -0400, "A.M. Kuchling" wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 10:22:05AM -0400, R. David Murray wrote:
> > > Real world example with issue8151. It is an issue with a trivial patch
> > > in it. Everything what is needed is to dispatch it to
ost people
will expect. In fact, only mathematicians are likely to know
that any other situation could possibly be valid. Programmers are
generally going to view it as a bug.
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On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 23:20:52 -0400, Alexander Belopolsky
wrote:
> I will not go into details here beyond referring to
> http://bugs.python.org/issue8154, but if you follow the link, you'll
> see that there was not a consensus on how the issue should be
> addressed and even whether or not it was a
ne.
> >
> > Terry Jan Reedy
> >
>
> I actually haven't seen that mail in a few weeks (subscribed to the list via
> my gmail account).
Darn. I bet I broke it when I added the 'languishing' status. I even
thought about that at the time but didn't follow up
atever result number you are looking at. And to have
doing so trigger an exception if requested by the programmer.
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the core. It can be part of distutils, or of a separate module, or
> delegated to third-party tools. It could even be as simple as
> "python -m compileall --pycache", if someone implements it.
Or even as simple as 'mkdir __pycache__', if you are work
onsive to feedback.
And we need more Windows devs :)
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;m in GMT -4) if I can
(and I think I can).
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On Fri, 02 Apr 2010 18:06:28 -, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> R. David Murray bitdance.com> writes:
> >
> > On Fri, 02 Apr 2010 16:05:28 +0300, anatoly techtonik
> gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I reviewed 5 issues and want to see http://bugs.python.org/issue7
alid 8bit data. So I think this patch should just be reverted.
Can someone (Steve Turnbull?) confirm or refute my analysis?
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That is, it would have to be already
encoded, and the encode('ascii') trick is just to see if there are
any 8 bit bytes.
Tracing the code a little farther, though, I now understand that
the *input* encoding that the payload is in (which will on ou
On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 12:54:51 +0100, Michael Foord
wrote:
>On 07/04/2010 11:30, anatoly techtonik wrote:
>> There is still a serious regression in zipfile module:
>> http://bugs.python.org/issue6090
>>
>> And I would really like to see my issue with difflib tabs committed: =/
>> http://bugs.python
aps
it's that we haven't had devs who were specifically tracking those
platforms...
We can add additional components if the community sees a need for them.
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t so they can do triage) can do triage.
There are a batch of us that hang out on #python-dev and also monitor the
new bugs and/or the full bugs list, and triage issues as we have time.
If you want to help out, come talk to us on #python-dev (on freenode),
and start reviewing issues and suggesting
itters
as a whole would find most useful. As I said in another note, I think
having a separate OS selection would cause just as many triage issues
as the current setup does. So the question is, what would developers
and bug searchers/submitters find useful?
That said, it's easier
my time?
>
> In my case it was not a waste of time. I use MSDN for dev and testing. Just
> not
> for release building.
Ditto. Without the license I wouldn't have a Windows machine that
I could run tests on at all (I run the OS in KVM instances).
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g the
way...or be mentored by #python-dev as a whole if they hang out there.
In other words, I think the goal is not just to add new developers to
the community, but to continue to build a strong community of developers.
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ped in certain cases, I'm not going to block that
consensus or get mad about it...but I don't think we have a developing
consensus right now, and I'm not sure how to move forward on that.
For the record, note that both Antoine and I have been in
ly working on the issue really needs the other person's
input in order to move forward. But these are my own rules of thumb,
and a discussion of how best to use this field may be appropriate.
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__
d with that priority. That way, those issues don't appear
> as if they had recent activity.
+1
This will make the default grouping more useful, since now critical
issues will appear at the top, instead of several pages in!
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will be. And those people who do a good job
making patches commit ready will be on the fast track to getting commit
privileges.
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PS: note that I'm using 'commit review' above with a different sense than
that
On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 23:34:48 +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> R. David Murray wrote:
> > And I at
> > least am in the mode of *discussing* it, not speaking from a position set
> > in stone...if the consensus that develops is that the familiarization
> > period can be skippe
triage, of course.
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t would be better to encourage people to post the unit
tests and the fix as separate patch files.
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it is on Brett's list to update that doc, but maybe we should help
him out :). Can you list what's missing? We should fill in the gaps.
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ot a *net cost*. AFAICS, the "quantity" camp sees it as a
> nearly pure loss, simply slowing down inflow of preexisting "merit"
> (and perhaps discouraging it entirely).
Except for the "vehemently" part, I think that's an accurate summary
of my position.
--
to
> have defaults for? (I would submit each as a separate patch.)
As far as I can see none of the other fields should have a default
value.
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t written down somewhere and I've just forgotten where to
> look...)
I don't think so, but it should be.
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http://m
arwin? The readline
> on Darwin isn't what Python wants.
I think someone fixed readline to work with Darwin's readline, at
least in theory.
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x27;open' or of 'closed'?
Open.
> > and they explain why an issue was closed.
>
> This needs to be explicitly stated in the doc if you want it followed.
>
> In response to my repeating this on the tracker,
> bugs.python.org/issue7511
> R. David Murray said (i
On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 07:17:02 +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> R. David Murray wrote:
> > On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 14:11:57 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:
> >> On 4/27/2010 5:14 PM, "Martin v. Loewis" wrote:
> >>> You only have resolutions on closed issues,
> >
gs for these, please? The first and last others should
be able to replicate easily; the middle one will probably require your
help on the machine in question to debug.
--
R. David Murray www.bitdance.com
___
Python-De
On Sat, 01 May 2010 11:35:04 +0200, Georg Brandl wrote:
> Am 29.04.2010 13:40, schrieb R. David Murray:
> > On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 20:16:14 +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> >> Does the online dev version of the docs build in response to docs
> >> checkins, or just once a day?
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