[Python-Dev] Version and Last-Modified headers are no longer required in PEPs.

2017-09-05 Thread R. David Murray
The Version and Last-Modified headers required by PEP1 used to be maintained by the version control system, but this is not true now that we've switched to git. We are therefore deprecating these headers and have removed them from PEP1. The PEP generation script now considers them to be optional.

[Python-Dev] PEP 548: More Flexible Loop Control

2017-09-05 Thread R. David Murray
I've written a PEP proposing a small enhancement to the Python loop control statements. Short version: here's what feels to me like a Pythonic way to spell "repeat until": while: break if The PEP goes into some detail on why this feels like a readability improvement in the

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 548: More Flexible Loop Control

2017-09-06 Thread R. David Murray
On Wed, 06 Sep 2017 15:05:51 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 10:11 AM, R. David Murray > wrote: > > I've written a PEP proposing a small enhancement to the Python loop > > control statements. Short version: here's what feels to me like a >

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 548: More Flexible Loop Control

2017-09-06 Thread R. David Murray
On Wed, 06 Sep 2017 09:43:53 -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote: > I'm actually not in favor of this. It's another way to do the same thing. > Sorry to rain on your dream! So it goes :) I learned things by going through the process, so it wasn't wasted time for me even if (or because) I made several

[Python-Dev] BZR mirror and pushing to Launchpad

2009-03-08 Thread R. David Murray
wrong in my local bzr setup, or is this the expected behavior? -- R. David Murray http://www.bitdance.com ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org

Re: [Python-Dev] BZR mirror and pushing to Launchpad

2009-03-09 Thread R. David Murray
cond branch be the problem? I just did 'bzr branch trunk trunk-myfix'. Is there a way I can check if my branch is stacking capable? (I'm very new to bzr.) -- R. David Murray http://www.bitdance.com ___ Python-Dev mailing list

Re: [Python-Dev] BZR mirror and pushing to Launchpad

2009-03-09 Thread R. David Murray
On Mon, 9 Mar 2009 at 10:49, Barry Warsaw wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- On Mar 9, 2009, at 10:48 AM, R. David Murray wrote: On Mon, 9 Mar 2009 at 09:30, Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Mar 9, 2009, at 9:02 AM, R. David Murray wrote: > > On Mon, 9 Mar 2009 at 08:15, Barry War

Re: [Python-Dev] BZR mirror and pushing to Launchpad

2009-03-09 Thread R. David Murray
On Mon, 9 Mar 2009 at 11:23, R. David Murray wrote: On Mon, 9 Mar 2009 at 10:49, Barry Warsaw wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- On Mar 9, 2009, at 10:48 AM, R. David Murray wrote: > On Mon, 9 Mar 2009 at 09:30, Barry Warsaw wrote: > > On Mar 9, 2009, at 9:02 AM, R. Dav

Re: [Python-Dev] PyS60 - mailbox

2009-03-10 Thread R. David Murray
Symbian/S60 ? Any work around ? Many unix systems (especially laptops) now run with the 'noatime' option set on their file systems. On my system with noatime set, atime appears to be equal to mtime, so assuming you have mtime, returning that for atime would appear to be de facto s

Re: [Python-Dev] wait time [was: Ext4 data loss]

2009-03-12 Thread R. David Murray
ggressive to be on flushing data to disk should be in the hands of the _user_, not the application. Of course, the application needs some way to enable the user to make that decision, which is what I presume we are talking about supporting here. -- R. David Murray http://www.bitdance

Re: [Python-Dev] wait time [was: Ext4 data loss]

2009-03-12 Thread R. David Murray
On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 at 20:25, Antoine Pitrou wrote: R. David Murray bitdance.com> writes: By the way, I would not like to see python programmers encouraged to make the same mistake that sqlite3 made. The decision about how aggressive to be on flushing data to disk should be in the hands

Re: [Python-Dev] wait time [was: Ext4 data loss]

2009-03-12 Thread R. David Murray
On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 at 17:01, Jim Jewett wrote: On 3/12/09, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote: It is starting to look as though flush (and close?) should take an optional wait parameter, to indicate how much re-assurance you're willing to wait for. Unfortunately, such a thing would be unimplementable

Re: [Python-Dev] wait time [was: Ext4 data loss]

2009-03-12 Thread R. David Murray
I have told my laptop to only sync to disk every five minutes (as I have at times done), and it crashes (eg: the battery runs out), then anything I did during those last five minutes will be lost. If the disk then spins up more often than I told it to, I get very annoyed.

Re: [Python-Dev] Python-Dev] wait time [was: Ext4 data loss

2009-03-12 Thread R. David Murray
d not be calling fsync unless it provides a way for that behavior to be controlled by the user. -- R. David Murray http://www.bitdance.com___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsub

Re: [Python-Dev] Python-Dev] wait time [was: Ext4 data loss

2009-03-12 Thread R. David Murray
On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 at 00:35, Antoine Pitrou wrote: R. David Murray bitdance.com> writes: Seriously, though, the point is that IMO an application should not be calling fsync unless it provides a way for that behavior to be controlled by the user. But whether an application does it or not

Re: [Python-Dev] Integrate BeautifulSoup into stdlib?

2009-03-13 Thread R. David Murray
h install process?! And without providing any way to script the answers, at least that I could find!) So I'm +1 for keeping the Python stdlib as comprehensive as sensible. (Please note that last word...I've no objection to pruning things that are no longer serving a useful purp

Re: [Python-Dev] Python-Dev] wait time [was: Ext4 data loss

2009-03-13 Thread R. David Murray
On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 at 14:27, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 01:02:26 pm R. David Murray wrote: On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 at 00:35, Antoine Pitrou wrote: R. David Murray bitdance.com> writes: Seriously, though, the point is that IMO an application should not be calling fsync u

Re: [Python-Dev] Python-Dev] wait time [was: Ext4 data loss

2009-03-13 Thread R. David Murray
On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 at 12:27, Antoine Pitrou wrote: R. David Murray bitdance.com> writes: You will note that what I suggested was that applications that _use the sync feature_ make it user controllable. I'm sorry, but if it has nothing to do with Python itself, perhaps we could s

[Python-Dev] python-3000 is still mentioned on the mailing lists page

2009-03-17 Thread R. David Murray
I just noticed that the python-3000 list is still mentioned on http://www.python.org/community/lists/. I searched around a bit but it isn't obvious to me where other than here I should report this, so I'm reporting it here :). -- R. David Murray http://www.bi

Re: [Python-Dev] Core projects for Summer of Code

2009-03-18 Thread R. David Murray
their work can be demonstrated. They're being paid for specific projects so "Spend the Summer How about improving 2to3? Seems like that could be an interesting, challenging, useful, and rewarding project :). -- R. David Murray http://w

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 380 (yield from a subgenerator) comments

2009-03-22 Thread R. David Murray
d would make it less likely to be accepted?) -- R. David Murray http://www.bitdance.com ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

[Python-Dev] issue 2170 review

2009-03-22 Thread R. David Murray
workflow/ document, I would be happy to go through and triage issues for which that hasn't yet been done, if I can be given permission to do so. -- R. David Murray http://www.bitdance.com ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http

Re: [Python-Dev] tracker status options

2009-03-23 Thread R. David Murray
y' (and I just used it that way). It sounds like that is indeed correct but not universally known, and thus I would suggest that at a minimum this status be changed to 'close pending' to make it clearer. -- R. David Murray http://www.bitdance.com _

[Python-Dev] tracker status options

2009-03-24 Thread R. David Murray
being considered for addition to a release candidate or final release, perhaps we need an additional stage 'core review' that would come after 'patch review'. Then triage could promote issues from 'patch review' to 'core review' if triage thinks it is ready fo

Re: [Python-Dev] Integrate BeautifulSoup into stdlib?

2009-03-24 Thread R. David Murray
t been packaged for my distribution, I typically will either not use it, or I will install it somewhere other than the system default location. -- R. David Murray http://www.bitdance.com ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://

Re: [Python-Dev] Integrate BeautifulSoup into stdlib?

2009-03-24 Thread R. David Murray
ssues in the relatively short time I worked with it, but I could feel those issues looming in the background and it made my skin crawl :( I'm very happy that Gentoo keeps the libraries separate when it packages Java applications. -- R. David Murray http://www.bi

Re: [Python-Dev] tracker status options

2009-03-24 Thread R. David Murray
hink I would be comfortable with the current workflow, with the expectation that I would need to call for assistance less and less frequently over time, and ultimately only for those things where discussion among the devs really is needed. Hmm. Maybe I should write a short "guide

Re: [Python-Dev] tracker status options

2009-03-24 Thread R. David Murray
r than I was expecting, and I'll just have to step up the bar and learn to use it appropriately :) -- R. David Murray http://www.bitdance.com___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

[Python-Dev] Are buffer overflows in modules deleted in py3k ignorable?

2009-03-28 Thread R. David Murray
icy is before doing that since it is a 'security' bug. -- R. David Murray http://www.bitdance.com ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/m

Re: [Python-Dev] Are buffer overflows in modules deleted in py3k ignorable?

2009-03-29 Thread R. David Murray
On Sun, 29 Mar 2009 at 08:35, Gregory P. Smith wrote: It'd be worthy of fixing in 2.6 since the module exists. Though honestly... who cares about Irix? Guido commented on the ticket and closed it, so I closed the other two like it. -- R. David Murray http://www.bitdanc

Re: [Python-Dev] CMake Evaluation

2009-03-30 Thread R. David Murray
:) -- R. David Murray http://www.bitdance.com ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

[Python-Dev] regrtest behavior change

2009-03-31 Thread R. David Murray
py3k as well, but there will be no backport. -- R. David Murray http://www.bitdance.com ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.1a2

2009-03-31 Thread R. David Murray
a difference on all platforms. -- R. David Murray http://www.bitdance.com___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] CSV, bytes and encodings

2009-04-01 Thread R. David Murray
On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 at 05:37, s...@pobox.com wrote: This case arises rarely, but it does turn up every now and again. If you For some definition of "rarely". I don't handle CVS files generated by Windows very often, but I've run into it a least a couple times. That says to me that it isn't al

Re: [Python-Dev] issue5578 - explanation

2009-04-01 Thread R. David Murray
On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 at 13:12, Chris Withers wrote: Guido van Rossum wrote: Well hold on for a minute, I remember we used to have an exec statement in a class body in the standard library, to define some file methods in socket.py IIRC. But why an exec?! Surely there must be some other way to

Re: [Python-Dev] CSV, bytes and encodings

2009-04-01 Thread R. David Murray
On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 at 10:53, Antoine Pitrou wrote: Perhaps. But without using 'rU' the file couldn't be read at all. (I'm not sure it was Windows line endings by the way; perhaps Macintosh ones; anyway, it didn't work using 'rb') I just tested it in 2.6. It must have been old-mac (\r), which i

Re: [Python-Dev] CSV, bytes and encodings

2009-04-01 Thread R. David Murray
OK, Antoine, having merged my newline tests to py3k and having them work when lineend is set to '', as you suggested on the ticket, I'm inclined to agree with you that this is a doc bug. Skip? --David ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org h

Re: [Python-Dev] CSV, bytes and encodings

2009-04-01 Thread R. David Murray
On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 at 07:23, Antoine Pitrou wrote: Le mercredi 01 avril 2009 ?? 18:22 -0400, R. David Murray a ??crit : I just added some tests to trunk that seem to indicate this case is handled correctly in terms of preserving the data. Maybe you didn't write the file such that the f

Re: [Python-Dev] Getting values stored inside sets

2009-04-03 Thread R. David Murray
On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 at 17:57, Paul Moore wrote: In fact, Python seems to be doing something I don't understand: class Element(object): ...def __init__(self, key, id): ...self.key = key ...self.id = id ...def __eq__(self, other): ...print "Calling __eq__ for %s" %

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 382: Namespace Packages

2009-04-06 Thread R. David Murray
On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 at 12:00, Jesse Noller wrote: On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Apr 6, 2009, at 9:21 AM, Jesse Noller wrote: On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 4:33 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: On 2009-04-02 17:32, Martin v. L?wis wrot

Re: [Python-Dev] Test failures on Python 2.7 (trunk)

2009-04-11 Thread R. David Murray
On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 at 21:10, Nick Coghlan wrote: Chris Withers wrote: Hi All, Got these when running from checkout on Mac OS: Could not find '/Users/chris/py2k/Lib/test' in sys.path to remove it ... test test_asynchat produced unexpected output: ***

Re: [Python-Dev] headers api for email package

2009-04-13 Thread R. David Murray
On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 at 10:28, Barry Warsaw wrote: On Apr 11, 2009, at 8:39 AM, Chris Withers wrote: Barry Warsaw wrote: > > > > message['Subject'] > The raw bytes or the decoded unicode? A header object. Yep. You got there before I did. :) +1 > Okay, so you've picked one. Now how do y

Re: [Python-Dev] [Email-SIG] Dropping bytes "support" in json

2009-04-13 Thread R. David Murray
On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 at 11:28, Greg Ewing wrote: Barry Warsaw wrote: For an Originator or Destination address, what does str(header) return? It should be an error, I think. That doesn't make sense to me. str() should return _something_. --David ___

Re: [Python-Dev] Why does read() return bytes instead of bytearray?

2009-04-15 Thread R. David Murray
On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 at 22:05, Dan Eloff wrote: No, the read() method did not change from the 2.x series. It returns a new object on each call. I think you misunderstand me, but the readinto() method looks like a perfectly reasonable solution, I didn't realize it existed, as it's not in the lib

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383: Non-decodable Bytes in System Character Interfaces

2009-04-22 Thread R. David Murray
On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 at 13:29, Benjamin Peterson wrote: 2009/4/22 Dirkjan Ochtman : On 22/04/2009 14:20, gl...@divmod.com wrote: -1. On UNIX, character data is not sufficient to represent paths. We must, must, must continue to have a simple bytes interface to these APIs. Covering it up in layer

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383: Non-decodable Bytes in System Character Interfaces

2009-04-22 Thread R. David Murray
On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 at 21:21, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote: Yeah, but IIRC a complete set of bytes APIs doesn't exist yet in py3k. Define complete. I'm not aware of any interfaces wrt. file IO that are lacking, so which ones were you thinking of? Python doesn't currently provide a way to access env

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383: Non-decodable Bytes in System Character Interfaces

2009-04-27 Thread R. David Murray
On Mon, 27 Apr 2009 at 01:40, Glenn Linderman wrote: Yes. My suggested use of ? is a visible character that is illegal in Windows file names, thus causing no valid Windows file names to be visually mangled. It is also a character that should be avoided in POSIX names because: 1) it is known t

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383 (again)

2009-04-28 Thread R. David Murray
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 at 09:30, Thomas Breuel wrote: Therefore, when Python encounters path names on a file system that are not consistent with the (assumed) encoding for that file system, Python should raise an error. This is what happens currently, and users are quite unhappy about it. We nee

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383: Non-decodable Bytes in System Character Interfaces

2009-04-28 Thread R. David Murray
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 at 13:37, Glenn Linderman wrote: C. File on disk with the invalid surrogate code, accessed via the str interface, no decoding happens, matches in memory the file on disk with the byte that translates to the same surrogate, accessed via the bytes interface. Ambiguity. Unles

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383: Non-decodable Bytes in System Character Interfaces

2009-04-29 Thread R. David Murray
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 at 20:29, Glenn Linderman wrote: On approximately 4/28/2009 7:40 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of R. David Murray: On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 at 13:37, Glenn Linderman wrote: > C. File on disk with the invalid surrogate code, accessed via the

Re: [Python-Dev] a suggestion ... Re: PEP 383 (again)

2009-04-30 Thread R. David Murray
On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 at 11:26, gl...@divmod.com wrote: On 08:25 am, mar...@v.loewis.de wrote: > Why did you choose an incompatible approach for PEP 383? Because in Python, we want to be able to access all files on disk. Neither Java nor Mono are capable of doing that. Java is not capable of do

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383 and GUI libraries

2009-05-01 Thread R. David Murray
On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 at 23:44, Zooko O'Whielacronx wrote: Would it be possible for Python unicode objects to have a flag indicating whether the 'python-escape' error handler was present? That Unless I'm misunderstanding something, couldn't you implement what you need by looking in a given strin

Re: [Python-Dev] multi-with statement

2009-05-02 Thread R. David Murray
oN Sat, 2 May 2009 at 22:12, Georg Brandl wrote: I see; you want to construct your context manager programmatically and pass it to "with" without knowing what is in there. While this would be possible, we have to be aware that with this we would effectively change the context manager protocol, r

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383 update: utf8b is now the error handler

2009-05-06 Thread R. David Murray
On Wed, 6 May 2009 at 13:40, Antoine Pitrou wrote: Stephen J. Turnbull xemacs.org> writes: Nothing is lost compared to 'strict', true, but under the PEP as it is a large fraction of Shift JIS and Big5 filenames cannot be read under ASCII-compatible file system encodings using 'utf8b'. You sh

[Python-Dev] python -m test.regrtest should pass on an installed python

2009-05-14 Thread R. David Murray
For various reasons I happened to run 'python -m test.regrtest' on my Gentoo installed Python. For 2.5.4 only test_tarfile failed (it tries to write into the read-only installed test directory). On 2.6.2 test_tarfile passes, but other test suites, including test_distutils, do not. So this posti

Re: [Python-Dev] Issues with Py3.1's new ipaddr

2009-06-01 Thread R. David Murray
On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 at 11:32, Raymond Hettinger wrote: Does anyone here know if Clay's concern about subnets vs netmasks in accurate and whether it affects the usability of the module? I can't speak to usability of the module, not having looked at it yet, but as far as I know from 10+ years of e

Re: [Python-Dev] Issues with Py3.1's new ipaddr

2009-06-02 Thread R. David Murray
On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 at 18:54, Jake McGuire wrote: On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 12:16 PM, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote: As for Clay McLure's issue: I feel it's primarily a matter of taste. I see nothing morally wrong in using the same class for hosts and networks, i.e. representing a host as a network of siz

Re: [Python-Dev] Issues with Py3.1's new ipaddr

2009-06-02 Thread R. David Murray
On Tue, 2 Jun 2009 at 12:26, Clay McClure wrote: On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 2:08 AM, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote: py> x = ipaddr.IP("30.40.50.60") py> print(x.ip_ext_full) 30.40.50.60 Thankfully the authors have provided this obscure and strangely-named method to get at the correct string representat

Re: [Python-Dev] Issues with Py3.1's new ipaddr

2009-06-02 Thread R. David Murray
On Tue, 2 Jun 2009 at 21:02, Paul Moore wrote: * I'd expect separate classes for "an IP address" and "a subnet" - I've no problem with that expectation being wrong, but I'd like some documentation as to *why* a single class is appropriate. (More generally, the documentation seems pretty terse). S

Re: [Python-Dev] Issues with Py3.1's new ipaddr

2009-06-03 Thread R. David Murray
On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 at 03:42, Mike Pennington wrote: That said, I test drove ipaddr for about 30 minutes and so far like the big-picture API design quite a bit. I'll specifically address Clay's concern about hosts vs networks, because this issue is important to me; I've been in the network engi

Re: [Python-Dev] Issues with process and discussions (Re: Issues with Py3.1's new ipaddr)

2009-06-03 Thread R. David Murray
On Thu, 4 Jun 2009 at 12:23, Greg Ewing wrote: Michael Foord wrote: if you are added as nosy on a tracker item (which happens when you make a comment or you can do yourself) then you get emailed about new comments. That's good, but... only going to the tracker to add responses. is not

Re: [Python-Dev] Mercurial and linefeeds

2009-06-04 Thread R. David Murray
On Thu, 4 Jun 2009 at 17:30, Oleg Broytmann wrote: On Thu, Jun 04, 2009 at 09:02:53AM -0400, Jason R. Coombs wrote: It seems that within the hg repository, everything has been converted to LF for line endings. I suspect this is because HG provides no integrated support for line-ending convers

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of 2.7 and 3.2

2009-06-07 Thread R. David Murray
On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 at 18:55, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote: B. "Yes." This answer means that the 3.1 to 3.2 development cycle will need to be truncated by roughly 6 months so that 3.2 can be released before 2.7 with any new features of interest. The 3.2 and 2.7 releases should then occur within a fe

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of 2.7 and 3.2

2009-06-07 Thread R. David Murray
On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 at 21:21, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote: I'm neutral on time frames, but I think that it _should_ be a policy that new features only get released to the 2.x branch after they have been released in the 3.x branch. Or, rather, I though that policy was implicit in the idea that we were

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of 2.7 and 3.2

2009-06-07 Thread R. David Murray
On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 at 21:55, Michael Foord wrote: R. David Murray wrote: [snip...] > By the policy you propose, we could not have released 2.6 in October > 2008, which we really really wanted to because Apple wanted us to. I don't think the 2.6 release date is relevant to this

Re: [Python-Dev] draft pep: backwards compatibility

2009-06-19 Thread R. David Murray
On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 at 14:15, Antoine Pitrou wrote: Benjamin Peterson python.org> writes: I mean that if you pass X and Y into a function and get Z in 2.6, then you should be able to get Z from passing X and Y in 2.7 even if there's a new argument that returns Z' if you pass True to it. Wel

Re: [Python-Dev] Binary Operator for New-Style String Formatting

2009-06-21 Thread R. David Murray
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 at 12:36, Jerry Chen wrote: For better or for worse, I have created a patch against the py3k trunk which introduces a binary operator '@' as an alternative syntax for the new string formatting system introduced by PEP 3101 ("Advanced String Formatting"). [1] It seems to me t

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 376

2009-07-01 Thread R. David Murray
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 at 20:06, Scott David Daniels wrote: Kevin Teague wrote: On Jun 30, 2009, at 4:46 PM, Tarek Ziad? wrote: > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:06 PM, Scott David > Daniels wrote: > > Tarek Ziad? wrote: > > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 8:37 PM, Paul Moore > > > wrote: > > > > [1]

Re: [Python-Dev] Mercurial migration: progress report (PEP 385)

2009-07-04 Thread R. David Murray
On Sat, 4 Jul 2009 at 12:28, Brett Cannon wrote: On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 01:03, Dirkjan Ochtman wrote: On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 20:04, Brett Cannon wrote: Fine by me as long as people realize that if anything is questionable then the switch will not happen. Getting this right takes precedence

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 376 - Open questions

2009-07-07 Thread R. David Murray
On Tue, 7 Jul 2009 at 13:05, Paul Moore wrote: 2009/7/7 Ben Finney : [... lots of interesting stuff deleted ...] I think it's not the developer's burden to decide *where* such files go; rather, they should be declaring only the *purpose* of these files in the distribution metadata, and it's up t

Re: [Python-Dev] Mercurial migration: progress report (PEP 385)

2009-07-07 Thread R. David Murray
On Tue, 7 Jul 2009 at 15:26, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: The merge process itself is more or less clear. What I'm missing is the agreed upon strategy for applying the patches to the various branches. I've seen a few discussions about this, but no final statement of what strategy to follow and whether h

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 376 - Open questions

2009-07-07 Thread R. David Murray
On Tue, 7 Jul 2009 at 23:30, Tarek Ziad? wrote: On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 10:31 PM, P.J. Eby wrote: At 03:23 PM 7/7/2009 +0200, Tarek Ziad? wrote: When I started to work on this I didn't realize the gigantic amount of work and coordination it requires No one expects the package inquisition. ?;-

Re: [Python-Dev] 64-bit values in XML RPC: OverflowError: int exceeds XML-RPC limits

2009-07-15 Thread R. David Murray
On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 at 09:29, Benjamin Peterson wrote: 2009/7/15 Peter Hanecak : So, my question is: In which Python release has been this fix distributed? Python 2.6 and above. But it doesn't solve your problem, since the ticket says it only fixes reading long ints, not writing them. --Dav

Re: [Python-Dev] [Distutils] PEP 376 - from PyPM's point of view

2009-07-15 Thread R. David Murray
On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 at 16:14, Paul Moore wrote: Bluntly, as Python stands, import and sys.path do not offer any core support for multiple versions. Custom solutions can be built on top of that - that's what setuptools does. But they are precisely that - custom solutions, and should be supported a

Re: [Python-Dev] Remove site-packages?!? [was: [Distutils] PEP 376 - from PyPM's point of view]

2009-07-19 Thread R. David Murray
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 at 16:07, Nick Coghlan wrote: David Lyon wrote: So it isn't clear why you want to remove the thing that you are advocating works so great Jim was quoting someone *else* that had suggested removing it (I'm not sure how serious the original suggestion actually was though)

Re: [Python-Dev] standard library mimetypes module pathologically broken?

2009-07-31 Thread R. David Murray
On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 at 15:17, Brett Cannon wrote: * It creates a _default_mime_types() function which declares a bunch of global variables, and then immediately calls _default_mime_types() below the definition. There is literally no difference in result between this and just putting tho

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3144: IP Address Manipulation Library for the Python Standard Library

2009-08-19 Thread R. David Murray
On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 at 08:19, Peter Moody wrote: On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 6:47 AM, Tino Wildenhain wrote: Le Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:00:06 -0700, Peter Moody a ?crit : o.broadcast ? ?IPv4Address('1.1.1.255') this is often used but not the only valid broadcast address, in fact, any address betwee

Re: [Python-Dev] Excluding the current path from module search path?

2009-08-25 Thread R. David Murray
On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 at 16:59, Chris Withers wrote: In any case, as a parting comment, http://bugs.python.org/issue1232023 seems to have been committed with no tests and the only documentation being a one liner in the NEWS.txt file. Was there other discussion of this? It probably should have go

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3144 review.

2009-09-15 Thread R. David Murray
On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 at 14:28, Antoine Pitrou wrote: Andrew McNamara object-craft.com.au> writes: >>> ipaddr.IPv4Network('192.168.1.1/16').network IPv4Address('192.168.0.0') Er, does this mean that taking the `network` attribute from a network object actually gives an address object (n

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3144 review.

2009-09-15 Thread R. David Murray
On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 at 14:16, Scott Dial wrote: In other words, I don't see why obtaining a host address would *not* retain the hostmask from the network it was obtained from. I am not disagreeing with it being an individual address. I am disagreeing that IPNetwork itself already does represent i

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3144 review.

2009-09-15 Thread R. David Murray
On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 at 18:43, Antoine Pitrou wrote: R. David Murray bitdance.com> writes: x = IPv4AddressWithMask('192.168.1.1/24') x.network == IPv4Network('192.168.1.0/24') x.network[1] == x I don't think we need an IPAddressWithMask which w

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3144 review.

2009-09-15 Thread R. David Murray
On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 at 19:20, Antoine Pitrou wrote: R. David Murray bitdance.com> writes: I would find that acceptable but sub-optimal. Most of my use cases (which involve manipulating router and firewall configuration files) would then start by making a little class named AddressWithNetw

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3144 review.

2009-09-15 Thread R. David Murray
On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 at 21:58, Antoine Pitrou wrote: Le mardi 15 septembre 2009 ?? 15:48 -0400, R. David Murray a ??crit : It's useful functionality is parsing/validating an address+mask, rendering as address+mask, and being able to get the associated IP and network objects from it. I

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3144 review.

2009-09-16 Thread R. David Murray
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 at 12:50, exar...@twistedmatrix.com wrote: On 11:10 am, ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: Or, to put it another way, given an arbitrary host in a network (e.g. your own machine or the default gateway) and the netmask for that network, calculate the network address. With a "lax" pars

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3144 review.

2009-09-16 Thread R. David Murray
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 at 12:04, Paul Moore wrote: Of course, the discussion seems to imply that even the experts have a confused view, so maybe I'm being too ambitious here :-) Part of the problem, as we discovered in the last go-round on ipaddr, is that there are two types of experts: those who

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3144 review.

2009-09-16 Thread R. David Murray
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 at 09:59, Greg Ewing wrote: Nick Coghlan wrote: Or, to put it another way, given an arbitrary host in a network (e.g. your own machine or the default gateway) and the netmask for that network, calculate the network address. Some people have claimed that the gateway addr

Re: [Python-Dev] conceptual clarity

2009-09-17 Thread R. David Murray
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 at 22:32, Nick Coghlan wrote: Eric Smith wrote: Antoine Pitrou wrote: As it is, -1 from me. Either we only keep two concepts (Address and Network), or if we introduce a third one (AddressWithMask, whatever) for added practicality; but we shouldn't blur the line between the

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3144 review.

2009-09-17 Thread R. David Murray
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 at 20:26, Peter Moody wrote: On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 7:48 PM, Greg Ewing wrote: I'm not sure what usefulness the zero address on its own has, but if it's considered useful enough to have an attribute for it, calling it something like 'base_address' would be less confusing.

Re: [Python-Dev] Fwd: PEP 3144 review.

2009-09-17 Thread R. David Murray
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 at 15:44, DrKJam wrote: Granted, there are decisions to be made about exactly what the properties/methods should be named to avoid ambiguity, but they are important enough to be given access to in their own right. Details in docstrings help too ;-) 'network' and 'broadcast' ar

[Python-Dev] Misc/maintainers.rst

2009-09-17 Thread R. David Murray
I floated a proposal on stdlib-sig to create a file named Misc/maintainers.rst. The purpose of this file is to collect knowledge about who knows which modules well enough to make decision about issues in the tracker when the participants in the issue aren't sure, and to write down the community k

Re: [Python-Dev] conceptual clarity

2009-09-17 Thread R. David Murray
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 at 09:16, Peter Moody wrote: I mentioned before that IPy's insistence on receiving masked out networks was one of the main reasons I wrote ipaddr to begin with. Having ipaddr mimic this behavior would make it significantly less useful. Removing functionality in the name of avo

Re: [Python-Dev] conceptual clarity

2009-09-17 Thread R. David Murray
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 at 10:38, Peter Moody wrote: On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:32 AM, R. David Murray wrote: On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 at 09:16, Peter Moody wrote: I mentioned before that IPy's insistence on receiving masked out networks was one of the main reasons I wrote ipaddr to begin

Re: [Python-Dev] Misc/maintainers.rst

2009-09-17 Thread R. David Murray
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 at 10:59, Brett Cannon wrote: On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:38, Georg Brandl wrote: ??Could we *please* have tracker names that match the committer names? (This doesn't even need to be done by the individual users, I would volunteer to rename all committer accounts and notify

Re: [Python-Dev] Misc/maintainers.rst

2009-09-17 Thread R. David Murray
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 at 10:57, Brett Cannon wrote: Looks great to me! Only thing missing that I can think of is sticking Eric down as the guy who does str.format(). =) OK, I've added that one to the last table ;) --David ___ Python-Dev mailing list Py

Re: [Python-Dev] Misc/maintainers.rst

2009-09-17 Thread R. David Murray
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 at 14:08, R. David Murray wrote: On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 at 10:59, Brett Cannon wrote: On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:38, Georg Brandl wrote: > ??Could we *please* have tracker names that match the committer names? > > (This doesn't even need to be done by the in

[Python-Dev] maintainers.rst committed

2009-09-17 Thread R. David Murray
I decided to commit the draft of maintainers.rst in case people would rather update it themselves. I'm happy to continue collecting updates and applying them as well. --David ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mail

Re: [Python-Dev] conceptual clarity

2009-09-17 Thread R. David Murray
On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 at 07:45, Nick Coghlan wrote: R. David Murray wrote: I would have IPv4Address itself be strict, and thus the new constructors would compute the network address and call the regular IPv4Address constructor.(*) s/Address/Network/ in this paragraph :) Ah, yes, sorry for the

Re: [Python-Dev] Misc/maintainers.rst

2009-09-17 Thread R. David Murray
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 at 14:19, Fred Drake wrote: One of the reasons www.python.org/doc/ was considered less discoverable was the about of only-sometimes-interesting information there; docs.python.org contains only "current" docs (for some vague notion of current and only, given that dev builds a

Re: [Python-Dev] conceptual clarity

2009-09-17 Thread R. David Murray
On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 at 02:24, Sebastian Rittau wrote: On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 02:04:11PM -0400, R. David Murray wrote: I mean, eg, IPv4Network.fromHostIP('192.168.1.1/24'). I'd actually suggest to use >>> net, host = parse_network_and_host("192.168.111.33/24&q

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3144 review.

2009-09-17 Thread R. David Murray
On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 at 11:04, Andrew McNamara wrote: [attribution lost; apparently Steven D'Aprano given the CC] To a non-specialist, "the network address" is ambiguous. There are many addresses in a network, and none of them are the entire network. It's like saying, given a list [2, 4, 8, 12],

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