Re: [Python-Dev] Distutils and Distribute roadmap (and some words on Virtualenv, Pip)

2009-10-08 Thread Michael Foord
he same library - whilst I can appreciate that it *can* be a real issue it has never been a problem for me. Michael Schiavo Simon ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://

Re: [Python-Dev] transitioning from % to {} formatting

2009-10-08 Thread Michael Foord
ansitioning string formatting. Michael -- Christian Tanzerhttp://www.c-tanzer.at/ ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 370 and IronPython

2009-10-08 Thread Michael Foord
, Michael Foord -- http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/ ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] Distutils and Distribute roadmap (and some words on Virtualenv, Pip)

2009-10-08 Thread Michael Foord
between them (at least it doesn't offer anything beyond what setuptools or pip provides). Michael I also use it as a sandbox for build bots so that multiple bots on the same machine can each build their own projects with just the known dependencies installed. This is the only use

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 370 and IronPython

2009-10-09 Thread Michael Foord
Christian Heimes wrote: Michael Foord wrote: I really like this scheme. The important thing for IronPython is that we can get it into Python 2.6 (along with other fixes to make distutils compatible with IronPython - like not attempting to bytecode-compile when sys.dont_write_bytecode is

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 370 and IronPython

2009-10-09 Thread Michael Foord
some intermediate format. Agrred. -1 on importing platform in site.py. Python's startup time is not great to begin with and this would cause the load time to increase even more. Agrred. (And import time is even worse on IronPython.) Michael -- http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/ _

Re: [Python-Dev] Distutils and Distribute roadmap (and some words on Virtualenv, Pip)

2009-10-09 Thread Michael Foord
tty much guarantee that the average user on Windows won't have a C compiler[1], and even if they do, they won't be able to carefully line up all the 3rd party C libraries needed to build some extensions. Binary packages are essential on Windows. Definitely. Most Windows users won&#

Re: [Python-Dev] Distutils and Distribute roadmap (and some words on Virtualenv, Pip)

2009-10-09 Thread Michael Foord
ls package management 'stuff' (querying for installed packages, uninstallation etc) since installation/uninstallation goes through the Windows system package management feature. I guess it would be eminently possible but require some reasonably high level Windows-fu to do. Michael I

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 370 and IronPython

2009-10-09 Thread Michael Foord
The *only* change in semantics I'm proposing is for users of IronPython 2.6 which is not even at final release yet. CPython users would be unaffected. Sorry for top-posting, mobile device. Michael -- http://www.ironpythoninaction.com On 9 Oct 2009, at 19:00, Brett Cannon wrote:

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP about sys.implementation and implementation specific user site directory

2009-10-10 Thread Michael Foord
I'm proposing two new attributes in the sys module: sys.implementation and sys.userdirsuffix. Why not just sys.implementation as a string? Everything else can trivially be deduced from that anyway. What is the use-case for the extra information? Michael sys.impl

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 370 and IronPython

2009-10-10 Thread Michael Foord
Brett Cannon wrote: On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 11:32, Michael Foord <mailto:fuzzy...@voidspace.org.uk>> wrote: The *only* change in semantics I'm proposing is for users of IronPython 2.6 which is not even at final release yet. CPython users would be unaffected.

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 370 and IronPython

2009-10-10 Thread Michael Foord
Brett Cannon wrote: On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 10:31, Michael Foord mailto:fuzzy...@voidspace.org.uk>> wrote: Brett Cannon wrote: On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 11:32, Michael Foord mailto:fuzzy...@voidspace.org.uk> <mailto:fuzzy...@voidspace.org.uk &

Re: [Python-Dev] Backport new float repr to Python 2.7?

2009-10-11 Thread Michael Sparks
- python-ideas or c.l.p, but if bigger carrots are wanted... Just saying. (As time goes on, lack of a GIL in Ironpython makes it more attractive for multicore work) Not suggesting this happens, but just noting it would probably be a big carrot. Michael. -- http://yeoldeclue.com/blog http://tw

Re: [Python-Dev] Backport new float repr to Python 2.7?

2009-10-11 Thread Michael Sparks
On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 10:41 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > Michael Sparks gmail.com> writes: >> >> I know it's the upteen-thousandth time it's been discussed, but >> removal of the GIL in 3.x would probably be pretty big carrots for >> some. I know th

Re: [Python-Dev] nonlocal keyword in 2.x?

2009-10-22 Thread Michael Foord
o also run Django on Python 3.0 either at that point or not long after. From there, 2.6 support can be dropped whenever convenient, and Django can move to running only on Python 3.x at whatever time is judged appropriate. All the best, Michael Foord You've suggested that most 2.x code will

Re: [Python-Dev] Volunteer needed to organize summits

2009-10-23 Thread Michael Foord
VanL wrote: Have you had any bites? I'm going to help Andrew with the invites and working out agendas. He's sent me a bunch of stuff to get me started. Michael Thanks, Van ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@pytho

Re: [Python-Dev] Refactoring installation schemes

2009-10-28 Thread Michael Foord
. It seems like this would make things easier for the alternative implementations. Michael -- http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/ http://www.voidspace.org.uk/blog ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman

Re: [Python-Dev] nonlocal keyword in 2.x?

2009-11-02 Thread Michael Foord
compared to the existing workarounds which are not pretty. We are voting, I'm -0. nonlocal is really useful for tests so I'd love to have this in 2.7, but obviously someone has to do the work so I'm only +0. Michael -Brett ___

Re: [Python-Dev] 2.7 Release? 2.7 == last of the 2.x line?

2009-11-03 Thread Michael Foord
ort. Python 2.X is not about to 'stop working', but there will come a point where it will 'stop being worked on'. All the best, Michael The community of scientists and engineers using Python is growing, but shutting down 2.x support mig

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3003 - Python Language Moratorium

2009-11-03 Thread Michael Foord
proposes to be *retroactive* back to the 3.1 release, i.e. the "frozen" version of the language is the state in which it was released as 3.1. I think this is a great idea. I'd love to see the energy normally put into evol

Re: [Python-Dev] 2.7 Release? 2.7 == last of the 2.x line?

2009-11-05 Thread Michael Foord
use new versions of Python for several years many other people are able to and do use new versions of Python. All the best, Michael Foord Perhaps 3to2 has a work-around that still provides a good backport in most cases. Then, the backport would not make the tool any simpler: if 3to2 would star

Re: [Python-Dev] People want CPAN :-)

2009-11-09 Thread Michael Sparks
arison /almost/ irrelevant IMHO. It is the sort of thing that leads to the DBI::DBD type stuff that is being simple to use, because of the encouragement to talk and share a namespace. The biggest issue with this is retrofitting this to an existing world. Personal opinion, I hope it's useful, a

Re: [Python-Dev] Replacing IDLE

2009-11-10 Thread Michael Foord
dependent on packages that aren't already in the standard library. Michael -- http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/ ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] Is this a bug of the HTMLParser?

2009-11-11 Thread Michael Foord
Hello Zhang Chiyuan, Can you file a bug on the Python issue tracker please: http://bugs.python.org Thanks Michael Foord Zhang Chiyuan wrote: Hi all, I'm using BeautifulSoup to parsing an HTML page and find it refused to parse the page. By looking at the backtrace, I found it

Re: [Python-Dev] standard libraries don't behave like standard 'libraries'

2009-11-12 Thread Michael Foord
ant is in the standard library in the form of distutils which is currently receiving a radical overhaul). You should look at Distribute and virtualenv, which gets you pretty much what you are suggesting (as far as I can tell): http://pypi.python.org/pypi/virtualenv http://pypi.python.org/pypi/d

Re: [Python-Dev] PyPI comments and ratings, *really*?

2009-11-12 Thread Michael Sparks
that twitterfeed - which I suspect is a mix of users of PyPI and uploaders to PyPI. (On a secondary note, if there's someone else who thinks they should own it, please let me know - it was a random convenience that people seem to find useful :-) Michael. ___

Re: [Python-Dev] PyPI comments and ratings, *really*?

2009-11-12 Thread Michael Sparks
e an account to login and use in order to vote. I realise there's good reasons for that, but I think it's a mistake. (There's no guidance that you need to log in to see the poll for example) Michael. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] PyPI comments and ratings, *really*?

2009-11-13 Thread Michael Foord
, the community is best served by a good comment/review system, one which avoids the worst trolling, and allows authors the right of reply, but does not allow authors to censor inconvenient but honest reviews. +1 :-) Michael -- http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/ __

Re: [Python-Dev] Too many Python accounts

2009-11-15 Thread Michael Foord
rovider. I'm afraid the PyPI implementation of openid is useless to me too - I want to use voidspace.org.uk as my openid but it doesn't let me. All the best, Michael Please correct me if I'm wrong. Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev

Re: [Python-Dev] Too many Python accounts

2009-11-15 Thread Michael Foord
myopenid *does* the validation, but my registered openid is www.voidspace.org.uk and I *should* be able to change provider without creating a new account. Michael I'm afraid the PyPI implementation of openid is useless to me too - I want to use voidspace.org.uk as my openid but it doesn&

Re: [Python-Dev] global statements outside functions/methods should raise SyntaxError

2009-11-15 Thread Michael Foord
uot; but it doesn't say /why/. Well, personally I think it would be a good thing if this raised an exception during bytecode compilation - but it would fall under the moratorium and have to wait a few years. On the other hand it should be easy to get PyLint to include a che

Re: [Python-Dev] Too many Python accounts

2009-11-15 Thread Michael Foord
should be more difficult for the average script kiddy). This doesn't seem to be a problem for all the other sites I use my openid with. Why not allow users to login with their own openid, but only allow one account to refer back to the same delegated account? Michael If the provid

Re: [Python-Dev] Too many Python accounts

2009-11-15 Thread Michael Foord
g the provider for that account). All the best, Michael Regards, Martin -- http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/ http://www.voidspace.org.uk/blog ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pytho

Re: [Python-Dev] Too many Python accounts

2009-11-16 Thread Michael Foord
2, as this is the only protocol that PyPI supports. This I can do. Thanks Michael Regards, Martin -- http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/ http://www.voidspace.org.uk/blog ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http

Re: [Python-Dev] Too many Python accounts

2009-11-16 Thread Michael Foord
ws them to switch provider if they can first login via their current provider would lock them out if their provider goes down. Michael Regards, Martin -- http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/ http://www.voidspace.org.uk/blog ___ Python-Dev mailing l

Re: [Python-Dev] Too many Python accounts

2009-11-16 Thread Michael Foord
Martin v. Löwis wrote: Michael Foord wrote: Martin v. Löwis wrote: Would it be possible to detect a change of provider and then offer the option to migrate the account to the new provider (so long as it does not conflict with another account)? That would be possible

Re: [Python-Dev] Issues with multiprocessing

2009-12-09 Thread Michael Foord
not seem to be happening here. Can you please throw some light on it? Hello Joshi, This email list is for the development of Python, not for developing with Python. A better place to try would be the python-list (comp.lang.python - which has both google groups and gmane gateways). All the

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposing PEP 386 for addition

2009-12-09 Thread Michael Mysinger
[{abc}N[.N]][.postN][.devN] Cheers, Michael Mysinger (longtime python-dev lurker) ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] Unittest/doctest formatting differences in 2.7a1?

2009-12-09 Thread Michael Foord
f the failure reporting in unittest has *improved* in Python 2.7 - are you feeding the output of unittest back into doctest... ? All the best, Michael Foord -- Lennart Regebro: Python, Zope, Plone, Grok http://regebro.wordpress.com/ +33 661 58

Re: [Python-Dev] Unittest/doctest formatting differences in 2.7a1?

2009-12-09 Thread Michael Foord
e some changes to the tests. Finding an alternative testing technique for your test runners may or may not be more work... Michael -- http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/ http://www.voidspace.org.uk/blog ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@

Re: [Python-Dev] Unittest/doctest formatting differences in 2.7a1?

2009-12-09 Thread Michael Foord
On 09/12/2009 18:02, exar...@twistedmatrix.com wrote: On 05:11 pm, lrege...@jarn.com wrote: On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 17:34, Michael Foord wrote: Can you be more specific? Only with an insane amount of work. I'll hold that off for a while. I don't know if this is related at all (a

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposing PEP 386 for addition

2009-12-09 Thread Michael Mysinger
Floris Bruynooghe gmail.com> writes: > On Tue, Dec 08, 2009 at 08:53:18PM -0800, Michael Mysinger wrote: > > I don't know what notation this versioning schema was trying for, especially in regards to what the +'s mean: > > N.N[.N]+[abc]N[.N]+[.postN+][.devN+] > >

Re: [Python-Dev] Pronouncement on PEP 389: argparse?

2009-12-14 Thread Michael Foord
ommon abbreviation for --version (I've just used this with Mono for example). All the best, Michael -- http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/ http://www.voidspace.org.uk/blog ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailma

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue 3745 backwards incompatibility

2009-12-15 Thread Michael Foord
n Python 3 if we are being consistent with other IO behaviour.) All the best, Michael I've added a note to the issue and reopened it. -- http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/ http://www.voidspace.org.uk/blog ___ Python-Dev mailing list P

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposing PEP 345 : Metadata for Python Software Packages 1.2

2009-12-28 Thread Michael Foord
6 (which may not yet be released) but *not* 2.7? 2.5:2.6.9 ? Michael > Requires-Python: 2.4+ Specifies anything above a particular python version. (No need to ask me about a less than operator. I think a packager would feel more comfortable with using the range operator than a '

Re: [Python-Dev] Rough 3.2 release schedule

2009-12-30 Thread Michael Foord
On 30/12/2009 23:39, Georg Brandl wrote: ... is in PEP 392. Nothing much to see, except that the final date is December 11, 2010. Georg The PEP index incorrectly lists PEP 375 as being the Python 3.2 release schedule PEP: http://python.org/dev/peps/ Michael -- http

Re: [Python-Dev] Suggestion: new 3 release with backwards compatibility

2010-01-05 Thread Michael Foord
ain around the migration as well. I think in fact that libraries *are* migrating and there are lots of encouraging signs. As a community we need to do all we can to promote Python 3 adoption, but I don't think there is much reason to be worried (or complacent for that matter).

Re: [Python-Dev] bug triage

2010-01-06 Thread Michael Foord
ese on the tracker. There is a bot that posts activity to #python-dev, so there must be some way of getting this information. All the best, Michael cheers, Chris -- http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/ http://www.voidspace.org.uk/blog ___ Pyth

Re: [Python-Dev] Backported faster RLock to Python 2.6.

2010-01-07 Thread Michael Foord
eader to determine... (i.e. copyright and ownership are legal terms that don't necessarily mean anything *practical* in these situations.) Michael -- http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/ http://www.voidspace.org.uk/blog ___ Python-Dev mailing l

Re: [Python-Dev] Quick sum up about open() + BOM

2010-01-08 Thread Michael Foord
On Windows both UTF-8 and signature are very common, yet the platform default is the truly awful CP1252. All the best, Michael Regards Antoine. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscr

Re: [Python-Dev] Improve open() to support reading file starting with an unicode BOM

2010-01-09 Thread Michael Foord
than UTF-8, then we open the file using what is likely to be the incorrect encoding. Looking for the signature seems to be better behaviour in that case. All the best, Michael -- http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/ http://www.voidspace.org.uk/blog _

Re: [Python-Dev] topics I plan to discuss at the language summit

2010-01-10 Thread Michael Foord
On 10/01/2010 21:52, Dirkjan Ochtman wrote: On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 21:25, Brett Cannon wrote: Michael has given me the hg transition/stdlib time slot at the language summit this year. In regards to that I plan to lead a discussion on: * where we are at w/ the Hg transition (Dirkjan should

Re: [Python-Dev] Data descriptor doc/implementation inconsistency

2010-01-11 Thread Michael Foord
ean we need a third class of descriptors that are neither data descriptors nor non-data descriptors? What should we call them: really-not-data-descriptors? All the best, Michael Cheers, Nick. -- http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/ http://www.voidspace.org.uk/blog READ CAREFULLY. By

Re: [Python-Dev] [RELEASED] Python 2.7 alpha 2

2010-01-12 Thread Michael Foord
yet tried converting larger code-bases to Python 3, but I think the workflow advocated by Martin is greatly preferable to the hacks and tricks needed to make the same codebase run under 2 & 3. Michael I've got argparse running on Python 2.3-3.1, and the changes were pretty easy. You can

Re: [Python-Dev] [RELEASED] Python 2.7 alpha 2

2010-01-12 Thread Michael Foord
We tend to ship our Python runtime with our applications though. As it happens I'm now working with CPython on the server (Python 2.5) and IronPython in the browser where we are using 2.6. The new property feature is nice, as is having with without a __future__ import. All the best,

[Python-Dev] Fwd: Download Page - AMD64

2010-01-12 Thread Michael Foord
I presume the email below is about the Windows binary. Does the AMD64 release work on intel 64bit and can we make the wording clearer on the download page? The current description is " Windows AMD64 binary". All the best, Michael Original Message Subject:

Re: [Python-Dev] Fwd: Download Page - AMD64

2010-01-12 Thread Michael Foord
ey will not work on Intel Itanium Processors (formerly IA-64).""" To those not intimately aware of the history and present of 64 bit architecture this sentence would be a great addition - thanks. I'm adding it now as a footnote. A

Re: [Python-Dev] Fwd: Download Page - AMD64

2010-01-12 Thread Michael Foord
On 12/01/2010 23:40, Michael Foord wrote: On 12/01/2010 23:28, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: [snip...] """The binaries for AMD64 will also work on processors that implement the Intel 64 architecture (formerly EM64T), i.e. the architecture that Microsoft calls x64, and

Re: [Python-Dev] Fwd: Download Page - AMD64

2010-01-12 Thread Michael Foord
On 12/01/2010 23:41, Christian Heimes wrote: Michael Foord wrote: I presume the email below is about the Windows binary. Does the AMD64 release work on intel 64bit and can we make the wording clearer on the download page? The current description is " Windows AMD64 binary".

Re: [Python-Dev] Fwd: Download Page - AMD64

2010-01-13 Thread Michael Foord
ative and least confusing to our users - we owe our allegiance to them and not to a processor vendor. Michael Regards, Martin -- http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/ http://www.voidspace.org.uk/blog READ CAREFULLY. By accepting and reading this email you agree, on behalf of your employer, to

Re: [Python-Dev] Fwd: Download Page - AMD64

2010-01-13 Thread Michael Urman
thon 2.6.4 installer for Windows (x64). Unfortunately this usage doesn't seem to be reflected in consumer-oriented product pages, so I'm uncertain how clear it is for those downloading Python. -- Michael Urman ___ Python-Dev mailing list Py

Re: [Python-Dev] Fwd: Download Page - AMD64

2010-01-13 Thread Michael Urman
On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 13:45, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: >> So to echo what Michael said, the Microsoft nomenclature is "x64" >> regardless of yours and Martin's objections to that name. Nobody who >> uses Windows would be confused by "x64

Re: [Python-Dev] Fwd: Download Page - AMD64

2010-01-13 Thread Michael Foord
e saw in the specific enquiry from the user that triggered this debate. Referring to the AMD 64 build as x86-64, with a footnote explaining which architectures this specifically means is unlikely to confuse people. It is *definitely* better than just saying AMD64. All t

Re: [Python-Dev] PYTHON3PATH

2010-01-14 Thread Michael Foord
rary paths and startup code. Michael -- http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/ http://www.voidspace.org.uk/blog READ CAREFULLY. By accepting and reading this email you agree, on behalf of your employer, to release me from all obligations and waivers arising from any and all NON-NEGOTIATED

Re: [Python-Dev] Enhancing the shutil module

2010-01-17 Thread Michael Foord
ems the most logical place. I also propose to maintain this "shutil" module for now on (no one is declared as a maintainer in maintainers.rst) since Distutils will become a heavy user of its functions. Any objections/opinions ? Regards, Tarek I think it's a great idea. :-)

Re: [Python-Dev] Enhancing the shutil module

2010-01-17 Thread Michael Foord
ase they seem like *excellent* additions to the shutil module. Of course Tarek can speak for himself... Michael I also propose to maintain this "shutil" module for now on (no one is declared as a maintainer in maintainers.rst) since Distutils will become a heavy user of its functions

Re: [Python-Dev] Enhancing the shutil module

2010-01-18 Thread Michael Foord
ybe rename it)? It would also make the module much easier to find when searching through the module listing, I think. +1 Proliferation of modules is itself a bad thing though. Michael ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http:

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed downstream change to site.py in Fedora (sys.defaultencoding)

2010-01-20 Thread Michael Foord
on 3.x: UTF-8 Is this true? I thought the default encoding in Python 3 was platform specific (i.e. cp1252 on Windows). That means files written using the default encoding on one platform may not be read correctly on another platform. Slightly off topic for this discussion I realise. Michae

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3146: Merge Unladen Swallow into CPython

2010-01-21 Thread Michael Foord
n use site.py and / or environment variables for global switches. All the best, Michael Foord -gps disclaimer: I work for Google but not on unladen-swallow. My motivation is to improve the future of CPython for the entire world in the long

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed downstream change to site.py in Fedora (sys.defaultencoding)

2010-01-21 Thread Michael Foord
platform. The default encoding is only used for encoding strings to bytes when an encoding is not specified. I'm not sure when that can happen in Python 3? (Most streams will have an encoding and is the default encoding used in preference to the stream

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed downstream change to site.py in Fedora (sys.defaultencoding)

2010-01-21 Thread Michael Foord
On 21/01/2010 11:15, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: Michael Foord wrote: On 20/01/2010 21:37, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: The only supported default encodings in Python are: Python 2.x: ASCII Python 3.x: UTF-8 Is this true? I thought the default encoding in Python 3 was platform

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed downstream change to site.py in Fedora (sys.defaultencoding)

2010-01-21 Thread Michael Foord
On 21/01/2010 12:00, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: Michael Foord wrote: On 21/01/2010 11:15, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: Michael Foord wrote: On 20/01/2010 21:37, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: The only supported default encodings in Python are: Python 2.x: ASCII Python 3.x: UTF

Re: [Python-Dev] PyCon Keynote

2010-01-21 Thread Michael Foord
our history of Python stuff has been really interesting. I'd like to hear you lay to rest that nonsense about you retiring :> Well, ditto. :-) All the best, Michael -- Thomas Wouters mailto:tho...@python.org>> Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed downstream change to site.py in Fedora (sys.defaultencoding)

2010-01-22 Thread Michael Foord
ete list from the memory. If you really are after a complete list, you'll need to perform a thorough code review. For a few examples where some kind of default encoding is applied, consider XML and the dbm interfaces. Ok. Understood. Thanks Michael Foord Regards, Martin -- htt

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3146: Merge Unladen Swallow into CPython

2010-01-22 Thread Michael Foord
ed. It is provided as a separate tool (and often invoked by application installers) rather than allowing the native code to be distributed because the results can be system specific. Michael Foord S ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http:

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed downstream change to site.py in Fedora (sys.defaultencoding)

2010-01-22 Thread Michael Foord
On 22/01/2010 14:18, Karen Tracey wrote: On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 7:38 AM, Michael Foord mailto:fuzzy...@voidspace.org.uk>> wrote: On 21/01/2010 21:21, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: Where the default *file system encoding* is used (i.e. text files are

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed downstream change to site.py in Fedora (sys.defaultencoding)

2010-01-22 Thread Michael Foord
On 22/01/2010 14:33, Antoine Pitrou wrote: Michael Foord voidspace.org.uk> writes: Heh, so we have two different encoding mechanisms both called "default encoding". One is always utf-8 in Python 3 and one is platform dependent... Great. The former is merely internal

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3146: Merge Unladen Swallow into CPython

2010-01-22 Thread Michael Foord
n the user that first run could sometimes take a 'bit' longer to start... Michael Regards, Martin -- http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/ http://www.voidspace.org.uk/blog READ CAREFULLY. By accepting and reading this email you agree, on behalf of your employer, to release

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed downstream change to site.py in Fedora (sys.defaultencoding)

2010-01-24 Thread Michael Foord
n encoding and a lot of the time it will *seem* to work. Michael Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/option

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed downstream change to site.py in Fedora (sys.defaultencoding)

2010-01-24 Thread Michael Foord
On 24/01/2010 14:23, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Michael Foord writes: > This is why I'm keen that by *default* Python should honour the UTF8 > signature when reading files; Unfortunately, your caveat about "a lot of the time it will *seem* to work" applies to this a

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed downstream change to site.py in Fedora (sys.defaultencoding)

2010-01-24 Thread Michael Foord
On 24/01/2010 18:41, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: However it is likely to be often wrong, and where the user's locale specifies an encoding like CP1252 then it will result in silent corruption rather than an immediate exception. Why do you say that? Why do you think it will likely be often wro

Re: [Python-Dev] patch to make list.pop(0) work in O(1) time

2010-01-25 Thread Michael Foord
t use it is because you *know* it is inefficient (so the fact that you don't use it isn't evidence that it isn't wanted - merely evidence that you had to work around the known inefficiency). Michael Christian ___ Python-Dev mai

Re: [Python-Dev] patch to make list.pop(0) work in O(1) time

2010-01-25 Thread Michael Foord
On 26/01/2010 00:28, Christian Heimes wrote: Michael Foord wrote: How great is the complication? Making list.pop(0) efficient sounds like a worthy goal, particularly given that the reason you don't use it is because you *know* it is inefficient (so the fact that you don't us

Re: [Python-Dev] PyCon Keynote

2010-01-26 Thread Michael Foord
and setup all the shortcuts so that they can actually use it. Again - done by your installer, not provided by the language. It just isn't up to modern standards. What standards? Even with my two years experience in python I had no knowledge of this trick. A whole two years? ;

Re: [Python-Dev] Rich Comparison recipe wrong?

2010-01-26 Thread Michael Foord
mail.python.org. All the best, Michael [1] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2010-January/thread.html Cheers, Nick. -- http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/ http://www.voidspace.org.uk/blog READ CAREFULLY. By accepting and reading this email you agree, on behalf of your employer

Re: [Python-Dev] Help wanted on a code generator project

2010-01-26 Thread Michael Foord
of experiences. These are exactly the best people that can perfect expy. That doesn't make the topic suitable for this list - this list is exclusively for the development of Python. All the best, Michael On the other hand, expy, once perfected, would be a nice tool to expedite a

Re: [Python-Dev] Executing zipfiles and directories (was Re: PyCon Keynote)

2010-01-27 Thread Michael Foord
d the data similarly and everything is sweet. If the programmer is building applications for Windows then they should create an installer that installs into the right place. No argument about that. Python doesn't need to, and *shouldn't* do anything to accommodate that. All the be

Re: [Python-Dev] Executing zipfiles and directories (was Re: PyCon Keynote)

2010-01-27 Thread Michael Foord
On 27/01/2010 13:04, David Lyon wrote: On 27/01/2010 11:21, Michael Foord wrote: .. If a Python programmer wants to create an application that is properly 'installed' on Windows then the *right* thing to do is to create an installer - and that uses infrastructure not pro

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3146: Merge Unladen Swallow into CPython

2010-01-29 Thread Michael Foord
y Mac will unpack that? Can I build and run wpython on my Mac or is it Windows only? 7z (7zip) is a semi-popular compression format, and yes there are cross-platform tools to decompress them. A quick google should reveal them. Michael Thx, Skip _

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3147: PYC Repository Directories

2010-01-31 Thread Michael Crute
he beginning followed by the marshaled data would likely solve the issue. -- Michael E. Crute http://mike.crute.org It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problem just with potatoes. --Douglas Adams ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.o

Re: [Python-Dev] Forking and Multithreading - enemy brothers

2010-02-01 Thread Michael Foord
tion. Wouldn't changing the default be backwards incompatible? Michael Reid ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/fu

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3147: PYC Repository Directories

2010-02-03 Thread Michael Foord
e behavior is turned off by default. The fact that it doesn't affect most developers makes it the *perfect* opportunity to bikeshed... :-) Michael When I'm developing some Python code in my home directory, I usually only use one Python version and even if I'm going to test it

Re: [Python-Dev] __file__

2010-02-03 Thread Michael Foord
baked into .pyc files at compile time? (At least I assumed that from the incorrect tracebacks on Windows when you ship just .pyc files.) Michael -Brett Reload can easily enough be updated to fall back to __compiled__ if __file__ is missing, which is a much easier fix than

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3147: PYC Repository Directories

2010-02-07 Thread Michael Foord
by April 3rd (first beta release according to the schedule [1]). Michael Foord [1] http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0373/#release-schedule -- http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/ http://www.voidspace.org.uk/blog READ CAREFULLY. By accepting and reading this email you agree, on behalf of your

[Python-Dev] unittest: shortDescription, _TextTestResult and other issues

2010-02-09 Thread Michael Foord
TestCase API is big enough already All the best, Michael Foord [1] Mostly in revision 7-837. http://svn.python.org/view?view=rev&revision=70837 -- http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/ http://www.voidspace.org.uk/blog READ CAREFULLY. By accepting and reading this email you agree, on behalf of

[Python-Dev] setUpClass and setUpModule in unittest

2010-02-09 Thread Michael Foord
unittest (modulo licensing issues which he is happy to work on). I'm not sure what response I expect from this email, and neither option will be implemented without further discussion - possibly at the PyCon sprints - but I thought I would make it clear what the possible directions ar

Re: [Python-Dev] setUpClass and setUpModule in unittest

2010-02-09 Thread Michael Foord
On 09/02/2010 17:57, Antoine Pitrou wrote: Le Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:42:50 +, Michael Foord a écrit : The next 'big' change to unittest will (may?) be the introduction of class and module level setUp and tearDown. This was discussed on Python-ideas and Guido supported them. T

Re: [Python-Dev] setUpClass and setUpModule in unittest

2010-02-09 Thread Michael Foord
On 09/02/2010 19:00, Olemis Lang wrote: Sorry. I had not finished the previous message On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Olemis Lang wrote: On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 1:29 PM, Olemis Lang wrote: On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 11:42 AM, Michael Foord wrote: Hello all, Several authors

Re: [Python-Dev] setUpClass and setUpModule in unittest

2010-02-09 Thread Michael Foord
ipped' but that's playing with semantics...) Michael cheers, holger -- http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/ http://www.voidspace.org.uk/blog READ CAREFULLY. By accepting and reading this email you agree, on behalf of your employer, to release me from all obligations and waivers a

Re: [Python-Dev] unittest: shortDescription, _TextTestResult and other issues

2010-02-09 Thread Michael Foord
to TextTestRunner allowing you to pass in a result class (or other callable) that _makeResult will use to create the result object. Should be uncontroversial. :-) http://bugs.python.org/issue7893 Michael On 09/02/2010 16:40, Michael Foord wrote: Hello all, I've been looking at outsta

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