e *such* a bad idea -
but you will still get caught out by this. A string read in text mode
will read '\r\n' as '\n'. Setting this on a winforms component will
still do the wrong thing. Better to be aware of the difference and use
binary mode.
Michael
> -Original Me
nd practicality the former (IMO)...
However, that would mean that round tripping a string would change it
('\r\n' would be written as '\r\n' and then read as '\n') - on the other
hand (particularly given that we are treating the data as text and not a
binary b
Terry Reedy wrote:
> "Michael Foord" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> | Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
> [snip first part of nice summary of Python i/o model]
>
> | > The other translation deals with line endings. Upon input, any o
Steven Bethard wrote:
> On 9/29/07, Michael Foord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Terry Reedy wrote:
>>
>>> There are two normal ways for internal Python text to have \r\n:
>>> 1. Read from a file with \r\r\n. Then \r\r\n is correct output (on
Steven Bethard wrote:
> On 9/29/07, Michael Foord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Steven Bethard wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/29/07, Michael Foord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Terry Reedy wrote:
>>>>
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Michael> Actually, I usually get these strings from Windows UI
> Michael> components. A file containing '\r\n' is read in with '\r\n'
> Michael> being translated to '\n'. New user input is added containing
Steve Holden wrote:
> Michael Foord wrote:
>
>> Steven Bethard wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/29/07, Michael Foord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Terry Reedy wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>
Guido van Rossum python.org> writes:
> I wonder if we should start maintaining a list of Python developers
> for hire somewhere on python.org, beyond the existing Jobs page. Is
> anyone interested in organizing this?
I would be definitely interested in putting my name on such a list.
__
nger programmers who are using
Python on their personal and open source projects get into positions of
influence in the corporate world that will change.
My thoughts, for what it's worth.
Fight the good fight!
Michael
On Fri, 2007-10-26 at 04:28 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
calls (via the unbound method)
> may go a little faster. Also, it would make it easier to fix this
> issue: http://bugs.python.org/issue1109
>
On occasions I've found it a drag that you *can't* call unbound methods
with a different type.
__root__ but I'm still
> open for better suggestions.
>
+1 for '__root_namespace__' (explicit)
+0.5 for '__root__'
Michael Foord
> Christian
> ___
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> ht
f type(obj) == type(1.0)".
>
if isinstance(obj, float)
or
if type(obj) is float
I often use FunctionType though.So long as it moves rather than vanishes...
Michael
http://www.manning.com/foord
> Luckily Python does not distinguish float and double like other languages
> - othe
Hello all,
Can I suggest a new module for the standard library: 'antigravity.py'.
Perhaps it could display a particular image on import...
Michael
http://www.manning.com/foord
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during
the lifetime of late 2.x, helps swing me back the other way.
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be updated to offer
> the option of installing to this directory? What about python setup.py
> install (add a --user flag, for example)?
>
The installers should give the user the choice at install time
(preferably). A '--user' flag would also be useful (IMHO).
Michael Foord
&g
in your Documents folder right now. Go ahead. Look. Do you
see any files or folders in there that you personally did not create? If
so, you've been victimized. Applications should never create or modify
anything in your documents folder without your permission.
{snip...]
If application
Paul Moore wrote:
> On 09/01/2008, Michael Foord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Note today's Coding Horror blog entry: "Don't Pollute User Space"
>>
>> http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/001032.html
>>
>&g
m for Windows than other platforms?
This would be a really useful feature for me and it would be a shame for
it not to be on by default on Windows (and another set of complexities
for setuptools I suspect).
Michael Foord
>
> For security reasons we also need it disabled when the getuid() !
>
>
> I can't comment on the matter. I've not used roaming user profiles on
> Windows for more than five years. Can someone with more experience shed
> some like on the matter?
>
Roaming profiles still load and save the p
o take seriously
>> if we are interested in increasing take-up.
>>
>
> setuptools and easy_install won't be included in Python 2.6 and 3.0:
> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0365/
>
Which is a shame. I agree with Steve on this - although I realise that
Phillip is bas
too much, so it needs a
> deprecation warning in 3.0.
>
> int has to be a builtin because it's a fundamental type. trunc()
> followed round() into the builtins. I have no opinion on whether ceil
> and floor should move there; it probably depends on how often they'r
a thin wrapper around libm.
>
> So the question stands, why is trunc() different? Can anything
> good come from having trunc() and int() in the same namespace?
>
If the ambiguity is that 'int' behaviour is unspecified for floats - is
it naive to suggest we specify the be
y widely reported - and in fact is on the front page
of Python.org!
A site with a more interesting range of metrics (in my opinion) is
'langpop':
http://www.langpop.com/
In its 'Normalized Comparison' it shows Python doing well, but not
*quite* having
s not going to disturb the balance between
> str/bytes/unicode.
>
I'm looking forward to having a native mutable bytes type in Python 2.x.
Michael Foord
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ting integers from
other numeric types), would separating parsing from the int (and
float) constructors also solve this?
Is the aim to "clean up" the following fake example? (Real world uses
of map(int, ...) seem almost uniformly related to string parsing.)
>>> map(i
useful in other languages. ;-)
Michael Foord
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http
Hello all,
The downloads page on python.org shows 2.5.1 as the latest release:
http://python.org/download/
Michael
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sy but special and uncommon
> stuff really hard.
>
We build all our installers at Resolver Systems using Wix - dynamically
generating parts of the templates and doing all sorts of weird and
wonderful stuff (creating shortcuts, setting registry entries, testing
dependencies, co
means the change
saves nothing, and costs plenty.
Note the acronym is OOWTDI, not OONTDI - using a different name does
not necessarily make it a different way.
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object
(and vice versa for assertFalse)
For migration a simple subclass of TestCase that provides the old
methods/semantics is trivial to write. No need for monkey-patching.
Michael Foord
> Its also interesting to note the original commit message:
>
>
>> r34209 | purcell | 2003-0
asional "misuse")? But I'm not the one
offering a patch here, so I'll pipe down now. :)
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t;
>>
> [snip]
>
>> Could these be removed for 3k?
>>
>>
>
> I agree with others who say that we shouldn't do this for Python 3k.
> If we want to get rid of them, we should deprecate them, wait a
> release or so, *then* remove them.
>
&
On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 6:15 PM, Jeff Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Frankly I'd like to see setuptools exploded, with those parts of general use
> folded back into the standard library, the creation of a set of
> non-implementation-specific documents of the distribution formats and
> behavi
On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 9:31 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The objections to the PEP remain the same as they were then,
> though: In the requirements, it says "we need", without saying
> why we need. It then goes on saying "we want" (rephrased)
> "to duplicate APT and RPM",
On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 10:02 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > It seems to me that this discussion is being undermined by not
> > acknowledging the many use cases up front. There is no rationale
> > because there are too many tacit rationales.
>
> I honestly, really, cannot i
oing out to external servers and should be more
reliable.
Michael
>
>> -
>> http://www.python.org/dev/buildbot/all/S-390%20Debian%20trunk/builds/255/step-test/0
>>
>
> Unfortunately, this log has no information about why the test is
> failing, and
l tests should use
> the operator their name implies, e.g. assertEqual(x, y) should do
> something like
>
> if x == y:
> pass
> else:
> raise AssertionError(...)
>
> rather than
>
> if x != y:
> raise AssertionError(...)
>
&
On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 3:40 PM, Phillip J. Eby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> That is indeed a problem -- but it's a social one, not a technical
> one. It's trivial for the publisher of an egg to change their
> command line from "setup.py bdist_egg upload" to "setup.py sdist
> bdist_egg upload",
;> .NET, but maybe they would like one?
>>
> -X was suggested on Jython's irc. I kind of like -J, but -X would
> work for us too.
>
IronPython has a host of -X:Something command line switches - so
reserving -X would be helpful.
Michael Foord
> -Frank
> __
I should be able to help organise and attend the London contribution.
Personally I'd like to work on the documentation changes / clean-up for
the unittest module discussed recently.
Michael Foord
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lists and tuples that are the same length show the members
(and indices?) that were different.
I've copied Steve Purcell into this email, but his comments on issue
2578 indicate that he is happy for 'us' to make changes and he no longer
has a string sense of "ownership" of t
sages for assertEquals and assertNotEquals when an
explicit message is passed in
* Improved message when comparing lists/tuples with assertEquals
* The additional asserts that I suggested (In/NotIn, RaisesWithMessage,
Is/NotIs)
I think that there is still work I can do on the docs even before any
Christian Heimes wrote:
> Michael Foord schrieb:
>
>> By etc I assume you mean:
>>
>> assertLessThan
>> assertGreaterThan
>> assertLessThanOrEquals
>> assertGreaterThanOrEquals
>>
>> Would not variants be useful as well
Jesse Noller wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 10:59 AM, Michael Foord
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Guido van Rossum wrote:
>> > I'm worried that a mass renaming would do anything but inconvenience
>> > users during the already stressful 2->
Terry Reedy wrote:
> "Michael Foord" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> | I think that there is still work I can do on the docs even before any
> | grand renaming...
>
> In a related thread, I proposed and Guido approved that th
about this:
>
> >>> set([1,2,3])[0]
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>File "", line 1, in
> TypeError: 'set' object is unindexable
>
> I tend to agree with Benjamin that "unsubscriptable" is a made-up word,
>
rmine the
> encoding of a chunk of text 100% of the time mitigates against it.
>
The only approach I know of is a heuristic based approach. e.g.
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/articles/guessing_encoding.shtml
(Which was 'borrowed' from d
Neal Norwitz wrote:
[Michael working on cleaning up the unittest module]
it seems like most of the good ideas have been captured already. I'll
through two more (low priority) ideas out there.
1) Randomized test runner/option that runs tests in a random order
(like regrtest.py -r, bu
eaks to
check in besides these.
It seems that any documentation or help tool worth its salt should fetch
the parameters from the definition and so including them in the
docstring should be redundant duplication.
Michael Foord
Thx,
Skip
___
Doc-
breaking that
expectation breaks my flow of code reading.
I very *rarely* use lambdas in the form you show, but where you do I
prefer them to the single line function.
Michael Foord
The difference in the result (the only one I know of) is that the code and
function objects get the generic
On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Guido van Rossum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 12:51 AM, Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > -On [20080505 05:38], Guido van Rossum ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > > http://code.google.com/p/rietveld/source/browse
needing
modifications if they contain direct svn url references.
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On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 7:37 AM, Mark Hammond <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Trying to build pywin32 from the trunk, I see:
>
> from distutils.config import PyPIRCCommand
> File "C:\src\python-svn\lib\distutils\config.py", line 8, in
> from ConfigParser import ConfigParser
> ImportError: No module
itself.
I've needed to do this a few times when wrapping libraries.
Michael Foord
With classic classes, this is trivial, since __getattr__ is always
consulted, even for retrieval of special methods.
With new-style classes, however, the __getattribute__ machinery can be
bypassed, meaning the
orm X".
And what about platforms like the JVM or CLR?
Incidentally there were a small but vocal group of Pythonistas who were
(are?) certain that IronPython is not Python because it doesn't have
[all of...] the C extensions.
Michael Foord
Skip
James Y Knight wrote:
On May 21, 2008, at 11:26 AM, Michael Foord wrote:
And what about platforms like the JVM or CLR?
Incidentally there were a small but vocal group of Pythonistas who
were (are?) certain that IronPython is not Python because it doesn't
have [all of...] the C exten
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Skip> Maybe the presence of a functioning ctypes (can|might|should|will)
Skip> become the operational definition of "Python runs on platform X".
Michael> And what about platforms like the JVM or CLR?
Sorry, allow me to rephrase:
Mayb
. To have a proxy where:
proxy_instance += 1
unwraps the proxy is really no good! (At least not for my use cases...)
Michael Foord
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some code duplication with other parts of the standard library
may still remain in 2.6/3.0).
+1 from me as well.
I think multiple-processes is over played as a concurrency solution in
Python (where you need to marshal lots of data in and out, the overheads
of multiple processes can be very expens
class?
>>> class X(object):
... def __unicode__(self):
... return 'fish'
... __str__ = __repr__ = __unicode__
...
>>> x = X()
>>> open(x)
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "", line 1, in
TypeError: coercing to Unicode: nee
ting with %s and a single object or a tuple meets
>90% of my string formatting needs.
Michael Foord
Cheers,
Nick.
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over.
But that either needs doing for 3.0 or waiting until 4.0 right?
Personally I only *occasionally* find the tuple interpolation a problem
and am perfectly happy with the current % string formatting...
Michael Foord
Cheers,
Nick.
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it that
assignment to None is disallowed and the naming of members called None
being invalid syntax is merely an artefact of the implementation of
this, or does Python require this...
Michael Foord
In a similar fashion:
class Parrot(object):
... pass
...
p = Parrot()
p.
m but the DLR 'catches' attribute look ups etc
to add Python methods to basic types and do 'other magic' like wrapping
Python functions as delegates).
This at least enshrines the current IronPython behaviour with the veneer
of respectability.
Michael Foord
Alex
On Mo
illip J Eby but can't find a reference easily). The last one I
wrote was to proxy CPython objects from IronPython via Python.NET...
I would prefer it if the proxy class wrapped the return values of
inplace operations.
Michael Foord
I've pushed as hard as I'm personally willin
illip J Eby but can't find a reference easily). The last one I
wrote was to proxy CPython objects from IronPython via Python.NET...
I would prefer it if the proxy class wrapped the return values of
inplace operations.
Michael Foord
I've pushed as hard as I'm personally willin
y probably needs at least clarifying now
that Python does have a 'with' statement.
Michael Foord
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performance
of a Python implementation is not that great.
I'm +1 - but this proposal has been made many times before and people
always argue about what features are needed or desirable. :-(
Michael Foord
To fight that problem I want to proposed a new class in "collections&quo
I have a problem with the PyOS_InputHook() API as implemented by
Modules/readline.c: there is no way to communicate any interruption seen
while waiting at the keyboard back to the process actually reading the
line.
I have solved this in my own application by creating a new module which
reimple
On Mon, 23 Jun 2008, Aahz wrote:
> Then don't bother posting code to the list. Please post a patch; up to
> you whether you send a notice to python-dev.
Very well. Issue 3180 created. I hope I'm doing it right...
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Hello all,
I'm just doing some housekeeping on a Windows install, and notice that
the 'Publisher' of my Python 2.4 and 2.5 installs is shown as "Martin v.
Lowis". Whilst I *personally* find this very reassuring I wonder if this
is intended / ideal?
All
Michael Foord wrote:
Hello all,
I'm just doing some housekeeping on a Windows install, and notice that
the 'Publisher' of my Python 2.4 and 2.5 installs is shown as "Martin
v. Lowis". Whilst I *personally* find this very reassuring I wonder if
this is intended /
y case, bug #1737210 complained about it, and I changed it to
"Python Software Foundation". I can't retroactively change it for the
releases you are looking at.
No problem. I was more concerned about future releases.
All the best,
Michael Foord
Regards,
Martin
-
is supposed to behave for it to be considered
successful, not the conditions under which its behaviour constitutes a failure.
Agreed. I tend to think of testing as action followed by assertion - I
do this and this should have happened. Your tests usually define
'expected behaviour
tely my writing commitment is going to keep me occupied until
August - after which it will be one of my highest priorities.
Michael Foord
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h
Ben Finney wrote:
Howdy Michael,
I'm interested in the changes you're proposing for Python's 'unittest'
module. I am (like, I suspect, many Python coders) maintaining my own
set of extensions to the module across many projects, so I'd really
like to see many o
Raymond Hettinger wrote:
Michael Foord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
The full list of changes proposed (feel free to start - but ping me or
the list) and not shot down was something like:
[…]
Thanks. I'm working these into another draft PEP that I hope to have
up in a day or two.
ess' names, the
consensus in the *last* discussion was that the 'assert*' names were to
be preferred.
I protest the removal of the assert names - and in the absence of likely
consensus (and barring a dictat of course) I suggest this part of the
proposal b
ts which nose does seem to provide very well
although I haven't used it yet.
Michael
Almost anyone who has used py.test can attest
its syntax is much more natural, easy to learn, easy to both
read and write, and is much lighter weight. I think some variant
of py.test could be done that is c
"magic", my apologies.
But in the absence of magic how do you propose to provide a meaningful
error message from the failure of:
assert a == b
To wrap it in a function like "assert equals(a, b)" seems to gain little
over unittest.
Michael
I wrote a recipe (somewhat rou
Benjamin Peterson wrote:
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 6:18 PM, Ben Finney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
"Benjamin Peterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 8:25 AM, Ben Finney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Use new-style classes throughout
--
nse" for more information.
>>> import unittest
>>> type(unittest.TestCase)
>>>
It seems like a risky change for zero-benefit.
Looks like that part of the PEP is unnecessary.
Michael
Raymond
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vel attributes just for the duration of the test.
As we're changing more of our tests over to use these we're finding it
reduces the volume and complexity of our test code.
Michael Foord
[1] Based on http://code.google.com/p/mock/ although there is some
outstandi
s 2to3 fixer needed?
Michael
Collin Winter
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-
seem to be an argument in favor of
making it follow the Python style guidelines.
Michael
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__
Terry Reedy wrote:
Michael Foord wrote:
Collin Winter wrote:
Is any provision being made for a 2to3 fixer/otherwise-automated
transition for the changes you propose here?
As the deprecation is intended for 2.X and 3.X - is 2to3 fixer needed?
A fixer will only be needed when it
I've used tests like that when implementing numeric objects, which has
been several times - but only a tiny proportion of the tests I've written.
I wouldn't be sorry not to include them.
Michael
-Brett
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Python
ls into the tested application
rather than just the unit test class method calls if you're not
careful.
Do you have production code methods called 'assertEquals' and the like?
It sounds pretty unlikely to me.
Michael
+1. I had just groped my way to that
to live with the aliases. At best we can discourage the undesirables
by documenting them out of existence.
Presumably new methods should *not* follow PEP8 but be internally
consistent with the existing API?
Does this mean that new methods should be added with *both* asse
Raymond Hettinger wrote:
From: "Michael Foord" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I assume this doesn't rule out the addition of [some of..] the new
convenience test methods?
In Kent Beck's book on Test Driven Development, he complains that most
unittest implementations spawned f
icism comes in for.
Michael
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Pytho
or
py.test.
What about if you could run all tests in a project (of the first kind) with:
tests = unittest.discover_tests('path/', filter='*test.py')
unittest.run_tests(tests)
(or even just the first line).
With 'discover_tests' recursively globbing the
://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3126/
Michael Foord
Regards,
Stavros Korokithakis
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x27;s an example that does this here:
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/articles/metaclasses.shtml#the-selfless-metaclass
Michael
Cheers,
fijal
On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 8:46 AM, Kilian Klimek
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello,
i know this has been discusses very much, i'm sorry,
ource code file, honouring
encoding cookies, the tokenize module has a 'detect_encoding' function
that could be useful.
Michael
Georg
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ct.__reversed__
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M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
On 2008-08-28 21:31, Michael Foord wrote:
Hello all,
The documentation for __hash__ seems to be outdated. I'm happy to submit
a patch, so long as I am not misunderstanding something.
http://docs.python.org/dev/reference/datamodel.html#object.__hash__
The document
Hello Kim,
Thanks for your post. The source code control used for Python is Subversion.
Patches submitted to this list will unfortunately get lost. Please post
the bug report along with your comments and patch to the Python bug tracker:
http://bugs.python.org/
Michael Foord
Kim Gräsman
after the except block) and in
the second the NameError is caught by the finally that does re-raise.
What do you think should happen?
Michael
or shall I fill the bug?
(the reason to ask is because a) django is relying on this b) pypy
implements it differently)
cheers,
pt to
get the patch-set accepted into trunk but it was rejected because it
required too *many* changes.
Michael
Regards,
Martin
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