se
within our own tests would be a better solution in my opinion.
All the best,
Michael Foord
I proposed this on the list like a year ago. Somebody else said he was
planning a PEP... not done yet, I guess.
Digging the archive:
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2010-Apri
which case go ahead. :-)
Michael
- --
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user basis.
A single global location (for shared installs) or a single per-user
location for per-user installs would seem to be sensible if the config
file route is chosen.
All the best,
Michael Foord
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On 24/03/2011 03:02, Mark Hammond wrote:
On 24/03/2011 1:20 PM, Michael Foord wrote:
On 24/03/2011 00:44, Dj Gilcrease wrote:
On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 8:14 PM, Mark
Hammond wrote:
If you guys (or anyone) would like to agree on some precise rules for
both
the location of the config file and its
of the use cases for this seemed pretty good from the email
thread he linked to.
Michael
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of the core repository.
It has the major advantage of also being very simple to understand.
All the best,
Michael
Cheers,
Nick.
--
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May you do good and not evil
May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
May you share freely, never taking more than
otherwise read in and
decoded from an assumed-utf8 source with surrogate escaping, the
surrogate escape decoded names will not match the properly decoded
blacklisted names.
All the best,
Michael Foord
--
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May you do good and not evil
May you find forgiveness for
than policy not to fix and
update online docs?
All the best,
Michael
Georg
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but introducing special cases through a weird
interpretation of the rule sounds like a recipe for confusion,
theirs and ours.
Possibly. But online docs fixes feels like a very particular special
case that isn't hard to understand or likely to cause confusion.
All the best,
Michael
(and,
On 01/04/2011 13:32, Georg Brandl wrote:
Am 01.04.2011 13:57, schrieb Michael Foord:
On 01/04/2011 11:46, Georg Brandl wrote:
Am 31.03.2011 19:35, schrieb Éric Araujo:
I would like to apply this patch (or its moral equivalent) to all active,
affected branches of Python, meaning 2.5 through
sion there either. :-)
(Other than no *need* to bother, which doesn't answer the question of
what if developers *want* to fix errors in the docs - and I'm in favour
of *permitting* but not requiring it.)
All the best,
Michael Foord
Regards
--
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May you
d should be honoured.
All the best,
Michael
Regards
--
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/
May you do good and not evil
May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
-- the sqlite blessing http://www.sqlit
hough other implementations may not use the same ast "under the hood"
they will probably at least *want* to provide a compatible
implementation. IronPython is in that boat too (although I don't know if
we *have* a compatible implementation yet - we certainly feel like we
*should*
9)
> >>> case.assertEqual(s + "a", s + "b")
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File "", line 1, in
> File "/home/antoine/cpython/default/Lib/unittest/case.py", line 643,
> in assertEqual assertion_func(first, second, msg=msg)
> Fil
nt one of the core use-cases of the stable
ABI which was not needing to recompile extensions for new versions of
Python. Of course I could be completely wrong about all this.
All the best,
Michael
Regards
Antoine.
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On 05/04/2011 00:12, Scott Dial wrote:
On 4/4/2011 6:43 PM, Michael Foord wrote:
Won't that still be an issue despite the stable ABI? Extensions on
Windows should be linked to the same version of MSVCRT used to compile
Python - and every time we switch version of Visual Studio it is us
ening.
All the best,
Michael
That being said, I would like to see a broader set
of examples rather rather than extrapolating from
a single piece 7+ year-old code. It is purely
algorithmic, so it really just represents the
simplest case. It would be much more interesting
to discuss something
s as it will only
need to be executed at package build time. I won't be switching to that
horrible technique for specifying versions within my packages though.
All the best,
Michael
The RE as given won't match alpha, beta, rc, dev, and post suffixes that are
discussed in POP 386.
Indeed,
On 07/04/2011 12:10, Michael Foord wrote:
On 06/04/2011 15:26, Nick Coghlan wrote:
On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 6:22 AM, Glenn
Linderman wrote:
With more standardization of versions, should the version module be
promoted
to stdlib directly?
When Tarek lands "packaging" (i.e. what
On 07/04/2011 12:59, Nick Coghlan wrote:
On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 9:10 PM, Michael Foord wrote:
I really dislike this way of specifying the version. For a start it is
really ugly.
More importantly it means the version information is *only* available if the
package has been installed by
execution? (Any
failure tracebacks etc stored by the TestResult would also have to not
keep the test alive.)
My only concern would be backwards compatibility due to the change in
behaviour.
All the best,
Michael Foord
Thanks,
Fabio
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On 07/04/2011 20:18, Robert Collins wrote:
On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 4:49 AM, Michael Foord wrote:
You mean that the test run keeps the test instances alive for the whole test
run so instance attributes are also kept alive. How would you solve this -
by having calling a TestSuite (which is how a
://lists.ironpython.com/listinfo.cgi/users-ironpython.com
All the best,
Michael Foord
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ow Leopard -- tried to
upgrade it but apparently can't.
You certainly shouldn't update the Twisted on your system Python. Can't
you install Python 2.6 (from python.org) separately and install Twisted
into that?
Michael
On my OS X 10.4 buildslave, I see a similar but more success
xclude Psyco, if it was still alive?)
Well, sure - but within the scope of a GSOC project limiting it to "core
python" seems like a more realistic goal.
Adding cython later shouldn't be an issue if someone is willing to do
the work.
All the best,
Michael Foord
Regards
Antoi
On 08/04/2011 00:36, Anthony Scopatz wrote:
On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Michael Foord
mailto:fuzzy...@voidspace.org.uk>> wrote:
On 07/04/2011 22:41, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
On Thu, 07 Apr 2011 17:32:24 -0400
Tres Seavermailto:tsea...@palladion.com>
On 08/04/2011 02:10, Robert Collins wrote:
On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 8:12 AM, Michael Foord wrote:
On 07/04/2011 20:18, Robert Collins wrote:
On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 4:49 AM, Michael Foord
wrote:
You mean that the test run keeps the test instances alive for the whole
test
run so instance
7;t think doing this work should be part
of the gsoc proposal. Considering it as a use case could be included in
the infrastructure work though.
All the best,
Michael Foord
Obviously, we'd have to integrate a build of the latest Cython
development
sources as well, but it's not like i
e way there with
heuristics). Of course as always someone would have to do the work...
On the other hand switching to *permitting* restructured-text
submissions for tracker comments, with syntax highlighting for literal
blocks (::), would be nice. :-)
All the best,
Michael Foord
E
latter).
>
>
The essence of the proposal is to allow arbitrary syntax within "standard
python files". I don't think it stands much of a chance in core.
It would be an awesome tool for experimenting with new syntax and dsls
though. :-)
Michael
> Anyway, without further ado, I
't receive fixes for issues like this.
All the best,
Michael Foord
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On 14/04/2011 00:23, Martin (gzlist) wrote:
On 07/04/2011, Michael Foord wrote:
On 07/04/2011 20:18, Robert Collins wrote:
Testtools did something to address this problem, but I forget what it
was offhand.
Some issues were worked around, but I don't remember any comprehensive solution.
called for you. If an individual method doesn't
call super then a theoretical implementation could skip the parents
methods (unless another child calls super).
All the best,
Michael Foord
Ronald
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On 14/04/2011 16:02, Laura Creighton wrote:
I think that if you add this, people will start relying on it.
And the specific problem with that would be?
Michael
Laura
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May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
On 14/04/2011 16:34, P.J. Eby wrote:
At 03:55 PM 4/14/2011 +0100, Michael Foord wrote:
Ricardo isn't suggesting that Python should always call super for
you, but when you *start* the chain by calling super then Python
could ensure that all the methods are called for you. If an
indiv
On 14/04/2011 17:02, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
On Apr 14, 2011, at 8:34 AM, P.J. Eby wrote:
At 03:55 PM 4/14/2011 +0100, Michael Foord wrote:
Ricardo isn't suggesting that Python should always call super for you, but when
you *start* the chain by calling super then Python could ensure
On 15/04/2011 02:02, Greg Ewing wrote:
Michael Foord wrote:
What I was suggesting is that a method not calling super shouldn't
stop a *sibling* method being called, but could still prevent the
*parent* method being called.
There isn't necessarily a clear distinction between p
D(1)
This is printed:
C
B
(A __init__ is not called).
For this:
class D(A, C):
def __init__(self, a):
super().__init__(a)
D(1)
The following is printed:
A
(B and C __init__ methods are not called.)
All the best,
Michael Foord
"I, as a consumer of django, shouldn'
On 15/04/2011 16:18, Carl Meyer wrote:
On 04/15/2011 08:53 AM, Michael Foord wrote:
If we treat django's failure to use super as a bug, you want the
Python language to work-around that bug so that:
What you say (that this particular circumstance could be treated as a
bug in django) is
event, would be much
appreciated.
All the best,
Michael Foord
N.B. Due to my impending doom (oops, I mean impending fatherhood) I am
not yet 100% certain I will be able to attend. If I can't I will arrange
for someone else to chair.
--
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/
May you do good an
an be demonstrated.
Well, there was a 5x speedup demonstrated comparing simplejson to the
standard library json module. That sound like *very* worth pursuing (and
crazy not to pursue). I've had json serialisation be the bottleneck in
web applications generating several megabytes of json for
On 17 April 2011 02:48, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Michael Foord wrote:
>
>> On 15/04/2011 02:23, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>
> [...]
>
> If we treat django's failure to use super as a bug, you want the Python
>>> language to work-around
On 17/04/2011 00:16, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
On Sat, 16 Apr 2011 23:48:45 +0100
Michael Foord wrote:
On 16/04/2011 22:28, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
Am 16.04.2011 21:13, schrieb Vinay Sajip:
Martin v. Löwis v.loewis.de> writes:
Does it actually need improvement?
I can't
which were dramatically faster than the Python
handling on the other side.
All the best,
Michael
Regards,
Martin
--
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May you do good and not evil
May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
-- t
On 17/04/2011 17:05, Michael Foord wrote:
On 17/04/2011 00:16, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
On Sat, 16 Apr 2011 23:48:45 +0100
Michael Foord wrote:
On 16/04/2011 22:28, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
Am 16.04.2011 21:13, schrieb Vinay Sajip:
Martin v. Löwis v.loewis.de> writes:
Doe
On 15/04/2011 17:49, Martin (gzlist) wrote:
On 14/04/2011, Michael Foord wrote:
I'd be interested to know what is keeping the tests alive even when the
test suite isn't. As far as I know there is nothing else in unittest
that would do that.
The main cause is some handy code for coll
.
All the best,
Michael Foord
So, I grepped the stdlib for assert calls, and I have found 177 of
them and many of them are making Python acts differently depending on
the -O flag,
Here's an example on a randomly picked assert in the threading module:
This, to me is wrong:
def __i
n.
The Unladen Swallow folks didn't like pybench as a benchmark.
This is all true, but I think there's a general misunderstanding
of what pybench is.
pybench proved useful for IronPython. It certainly highlighted some
performance problems with some of the basic operations it measures.
Al
I know that the svn repo is now for legacy purposes only, but I doubt it
is intended that the online source browser should raise exceptions.
(See report below.)
All the best,
Michael
Original Message
Subject:viewVC shows traceback on non utf-8 module markup
Date
ects unfinalised and memory unreclaimed. Not sure what Java does.
All the best,
Michael Foord
Skip
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it is
easy to do in C++ with some {}s and a ~destructor().
It is not broken, just different.
+1 QOTW ;-)
Michael
-gps
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y I quote you on that one the next time my software crashes?
Arbitrarily breaking cycles *could* cause a problem if a destructor
attempts to access an already collected object. Not breaking cycles
*definitely* leaks memory and definitely doesn't call finalizers.
Michael
It may not make a
On 06/05/2011 18:07, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote:
On May 6, 2011, at 12:31 PM, Michael Foord wrote:
pypy and .NET choose to arbitrarily break cycles rather than leave
objects unfinalised and memory unreclaimed. Not sure what Java does.
I think that's a mischaracterization of their respe
; string, meaning while it could theoretically use UTF-8, in
practice I doubt it uses anything outside of ASCII safely. So while
the name of the library would be encoded in UTF-16, the name of the
function loaded from the library would not be.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms683212(v=vs.8
On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 23:09, Neil Hodgson wrote:
> Michael Urman:
>
>> I'm not convinced this is correct for this case. GetProcAddress takes
>> an "ANSI" string, meaning while it could theoretically use UTF-8, in
>> practice I doubt it uses anything outsid
thon could
certainly try to load by ordinal on Windows, and fall back to loading
by name. I don't have a clue what the rate of false positives would
be.
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n programmers (although semantically not *so* different from 1 +
1.0 == 2.0). I think it's safe to say that Stefan was joking.
Michael
But I don't think such construct should be allowed. Just like you can't do
`[1, 2, 3] + 4`. I wouldn't ever expect that a single byte b
or who's working on it :)
Hey lvh,
It's worth following this up. If Jim Fulton hasn't had time to move this
forward and you have the bandwidth to work on it then it would be great
to see some action.
All the best,
Michael Foord
--
cheers
lvh
_
the news on the front page.
All the best,
Michael Foord
--
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May you do good and not evil
May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
-- the sqlite blessing http://www.sqlite.org/different.html
tainly wouldn't hurt.
All the best,
Michael
Regards,
--
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/
May you do good and not evil
May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
-- the sqlite bless
Hey all,
The links to the Windows downloads for 2.7.2rc1 and 3.1.4rc1 are 404.
(From the release pages.)
http://python.org/ftp/python/3.1.3/python-3.1.4rc1.msi
http://python.org/ftp/python/2.7.1/python-2.7.2rc1.msi
All the best,
Michael Foord
--
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May
y, but it does raise maintenance and
development issues.
Don't forget windows support! ;-)
All the best,
Michael Foord
If people want to experiment with this code without cloning and building, I
created a Debian package using checkinstall, which can be installed using
sudo dpkg -i py
comparison to e.g. shutil, threading...)
And if we gain Carl as a Python committer to help maintain it, then I'd
say it is worth doing for that reason alone...
Michael
Carl
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tand "members" as "methods + attributes", which makes
it a nice term to use for that purpose.
That is my understanding / use of the terms as well.
Michael
Regards
Antoine.
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descriptors, but that terminology requires a reasonably advanced
understanding of the Python data model.
I don't think that "all members, made up of attributes plus methods" is
hard to understand. That's a great benefit. The fact that you can
technically treat methods as att
so you will have to stick with the system version of twisted,
which seems to be problematic.
All the best,
Michael
Bill
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tors", but that
requires a knowledge of the descriptor protocol for it to be useful.
Making-things-worse-and-not-better'ly yours,
Michael
[1] I'm talking about *usage* of the term here... I guess usage is
inconsistent anyway, sometimes people will mean to include methods and
author
of an extension type or a class wouldn't bother to define them."
So the Python 2.2 what's new talks about attributes and methods as
different things Of course the context makes it clear, but this
mirrors how I use the terms in discussion and how I see others generally
u
riptors").
The problem with "data attributes" is that it doesn't mean *anything*,
which I suppose is useful for invented terminology, but it means it
doesn't convey anything precise to those who haven't heard the term
before. If it becomes widely used then that chang
On 28/06/2011 12:04, Fred Drake wrote:
On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:54 AM, Michael Foord
wrote:
Added to which there are other descriptors, notably property, that are not
directly callable but are not provided as normal "data attributes" (although
the access syntax is the same). Prop
On 28/06/2011 12:51, R. David Murray wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 11:54:39 +0100, Michael Foord
wrote:
On 28/06/2011 11:44, Fred Drake wrote:
But "callable attributes" aren't the same thing as methods; most are methods,
but not all. Sometimes, they're data used by the ob
On 28/06/2011 13:31, Nick Coghlan wrote:
On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 8:54 PM, Michael Foord
wrote:
The problem with "data attributes" is that it doesn't mean *anything*, which
I suppose is useful for invented terminology, but it means it doesn't convey
anything precise to tho
On 28/06/2011 13:56, Michael Foord wrote:
On 28/06/2011 13:31, Nick Coghlan wrote:
On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 8:54 PM, Michael Foord
wrote:
The problem with "data attributes" is that it doesn't mean
*anything*, which
I suppose is useful for invented terminology, but it means it
On 28/06/2011 14:20, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Michael Foord wrote:
What do you mean by "instances can have methods as instance
attributes"? Once you attach a bound method directly to an instance
it becomes a slightly different beast I think. (On top of which that
is pretty
http://bugs.python.org/issue2636
It also has users and committed maintainers, so I hope we can bring it
into 3.3. It wasn't easy to tell from skimming the change notes that
Unicode character classes are amongst the new features. Is that the case?
Michael
PEP 0380: Syntax for delegating to a su
to correct in the
transition to Python 3.
Michael
> and avoid all the encoding guessing.
Making such default encodings depend on the locale has already
failed to work when we first introduced a default encoding in
Py2, so I don't understand why we are repeating the same
mistake aga
ethod" and "Method" above?
Is it just that "Method" is broader and includes class methods and bound
methods?
If anyone said "instance method" to me I would assume they meant bound
method. (A normal method fetched from an instance.)
All the best,
Michael
Clas
do an svn co. Perhaps that should just
be disabled totally for python?
For what it's worth we've had a couple of emails about this to
webmas...@python.org (in particular because the viewc svn browser breaks
on some latin-1 in source files).
All the best,
Michael Foord
--
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On 28/06/2011 17:34, Terry Reedy wrote:
On 6/28/2011 10:48 AM, Michael Foord wrote:
On 28/06/2011 15:36, Terry Reedy wrote:
S = open('myfile.txt').read()
now return a text string in both Py2 and Py3 and a subsequent
'abc' in S
works in both.
Nope, it returns a by
ch trade-off you want
to make.
For the sake of backwards compatibility we are probably stuck with the
current trade-off however - unless we deprecate using open(...) without
an explicit encoding.
All the best,
Michael
> And the failures will be data dependent, and hence intermittent
On 28/06/2011 18:08, Bill Janssen wrote:
Michael Foord wrote:
The new regex library has some great improvements:
http://bugs.python.org/issue2636
It also has users and committed maintainers, so I hope we can bring it
into 3.3. It wasn't easy to tell from skimming the change notes
might take a look at the latest version of the PEP too...
All the best,
Michael
TJG
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the python 3.3 installer,
future releases, and even a standalone installer, and reference count
correctly. Again, these can optionally be made available as merge
modules for other consumers, but there's likely no need.
--
Michael Urman
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Original Message
Subject:Dead link to documentation on Python main page
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 09:27:57 -0500
From: René van Oostrum
To: webmas...@python.org
Hi,
http://www.python.org -> Quick Links (3.2.1), Documentation points to
http://http://docs.pyth
ed "for free" by the launcher) and not a
launcher-only one.
What he said ^^. (+1)
py launcher and python binaries behaving differently in this regard
would be a recipe for confusion and hard to debug problems.
Michael
Paul.
___
for (on the rare occasions I still use Windows).
Michael
Thank you,
Vlad
On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 6:07 PM, Éric Araujo <mailto:mer...@netwok.org>> wrote:
Hi,
Le 22/07/2011 03:03, Vlad Riscutia a écrit :
> I'm kind of -1 on changing Python executable name. It would ma
plies even in cases like this where
the escaping aspect isn't a concern.
And then you make it {!r} so you can use str.format and you complete
the tweak of the string formatting! =) Seriously, though, it wouldn't
hurt to update it to use st
This subject is generating a lot of discussion and [almost entirely]
positive feedback. It would be a great shame to run out of steam.
Does it need a PEP to see a chance of it getting accepted as the formal
documentation system? (or a pronouncement that it will never happen...)
Michael Foord
d won't work if it's been aliased.
>
Being able to access the calling frame from IronPython would be really
useful...
Michael Foord
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ironpython/index.shtml
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
ee
http://jython.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/jython?view=rev&revision=3200
As it is a bugfix - backporting to 2.5 would be great. Should I generate
a separate patch?
All the best,
Michael Foord
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No behaviour change.
Thanks
Michael Foord
>
> I won't have the time to submit this, but I'm sure there are others
> here who do.
>
> --Guido
>
> On 6/19/07, Michael Foord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I've just submitted a
the ftruncate function does not exist on Windows.
>>
>
> I don't have a Windows box; contributions to fix this situation are welcome.
>
You would accept a donated Windows box ? (1/2 ;-)
Michael Foord
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lt, along with entirely
64-bit components. This wouldn't work for x64 machines, and all
components being 64-bit may be incorrect: potentially the 64-bit
installer should have some 32-bit components.
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atching it. I don't have a convenient 64-bit
Windows machine around to test any changes, though.
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On 7/13/07, Mark Hammond <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Friday, 13 July 2007, Michael Urman wrote:
> I suspect I'm still missing something here. The title of the page you
> referenced before is "Using 64-Bit Windows Installer Packages" - I suspect
> that is
On 7/13/07, "Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Michael Urman schrieb:
> > Right - it sets the template summary to include Intel64, not x64.
>
> You might be looking at the wrong version. In Python 2.5, it also
> sets it to x64, if the PE machine
On 7/13/07, Michael Urman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> That's even easier then, if anything's actually wrong. I'll find some
> time this weekend to look at it and report back. Would the one at the
> following URL be the correct one to verify?
>
> http://www.pyth
Guido van Rossum wrote:
> I think you're looking for a PEP 302 style meta hook.
>
Or even execfile in a context...
Michael Foord
http://www.manning.com/foord
> On 9/14/07, tomer filiba <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> a quick question: i'm working on
he Python world
to be aware that you might receive strings with '\r\n' in and do the
conversion yourself.
We come across this a great deal with Resolver (when working with multi
line text boxes for example) and quite happily replace '\r\n' with '\n'
and vice ver
to and
> only get \r\n in the resulting file. But if the general sentiment is
> s.replace('\r', '') is the way to go we can advice our users of the behavior
> when interoperating w/ APIs that return \r\n in strings.
>
We always do replace('\r\n',&
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