Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

2007-03-06 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Paul Moore schrieb: >> Scott Dial schrieb: >>> While I understand that this tit-for-tat mechanism is meant to ensure >>> participation, I believe in reality it doesn't, as the 400-some >>> outstanding patches you referenced elswhere indicate. I can personally >>> attest to having a patch that is ov

[Python-Dev] splitext('.cshrc')

2007-03-06 Thread Martin v. Löwis
#1115886 complains that in the file name '.cshrc', the entire file name is treated as an extension, with no root. #1462106 contains a patch for that, changing the behavior so that there will always be a root file name (and no extension if the file is just a dotfile). Should this be changed? Opini

Re: [Python-Dev] splitext('.cshrc')

2007-03-06 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Oleg Broytmann schrieb: >> Should this be changed? Opinions? > >Yes. In .pythonrc.py .pythonrc is the root, and .py is the extension. Ah, it would do that already: with multiple dots, the last one always provides the extension. However, for .pythonrc, it would conclude that .pythonrc is the e

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

2007-03-06 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Jeremy Hylton schrieb: > You can ask whether we should have a plan for increasing the number of > developers, actively seeking out new developers, and mentoring people > who express interest. Would the code be better if we had more good > developers working on it? Would we get more bugs fixed and

Re: [Python-Dev] splitext('.cshrc')

2007-03-06 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Oleg Broytmann schrieb: > On Tue, Mar 06, 2007 at 04:00:01PM +0100, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote: >>>Yes. In .pythonrc.py .pythonrc is the root, and .py is the extension. >> Ah, it would do that already: with multiple dots, the last one always >> provides the extension. > >Ah, sorry. I messed i

Re: [Python-Dev] git (Was: Encouraging developers)

2007-03-06 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Neil Schemenauer schrieb: >> the on-disk repository is mighty big and it doesn't work very well >> on non-Linux systems (at least, not last I looked.) > > Not true. The on-disk repository is now one of the more efficient > ones. Which is a relative quality :-) Every time I update the Linux ke

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

2007-03-06 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Nick Coghlan schrieb: > One thing that did happen though (which the messages from Jeremy & Phil > reminded me of) is that I got a lot of direction, advice and assistance > from Raymond when I was doing that initial work on improving the speed > of the decimal module - I had the time available to

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

2007-03-06 Thread Martin v. Löwis
A.M. Kuchling schrieb: > For example, our oldest bug is http://www.python.org/sf/214033, opened > 2000-09-11, and is that (x?)? is reported as an error by the SRE regex > parser; the PCRE engine and Perl both accept it. Fixing it requires > changing sre_parse, figuring out what to do (should it b

Re: [Python-Dev] Access to bits for a PyLongObject

2007-03-06 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Eric V. Smith schrieb: > Also, it would either mean duplicating lots of code from the int > formatter, or having a formatter library that both can call. This is > because __format__ must implement all formats, including padding, > parenthesis for negatives, etc., not just the "missing" binary form

Re: [Python-Dev] splitext('.cshrc')

2007-03-06 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Oleg Broytmann schrieb: os.path.splitext(".pythonrc") > ('', '.pythonrc') > >and I think it should be > > ('.pythonrc', '') Thanks, so it sounds like the patch should be accepted. Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python

Re: [Python-Dev] Patch 1644818: Allow importing built-in submodules

2007-03-06 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Miguel Lobo schrieb: > As I am completely new to CPython development, perhaps this problem has > already been discussed and/or fixed I may have done something > incorrectly. Please let me know if that is the case. I looked at it briefly. If I understand correctly, the proposed feature is fine,

Re: [Python-Dev] SVK

2007-03-06 Thread Martin v. Löwis
A.M. Kuchling schrieb: > I'm happy to write up a wiki page describing how to use SVK to set up > your own mirror of the Python SVN. However, trying it now, the > initial setup seems very slow: SVK is retrieving each of 54165 > revisions and it'll probably take over an hour to complete. If it help

Re: [Python-Dev] splitext('.cshrc')

2007-03-06 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Phillip J. Eby schrieb: > I consider it correct, or at the least, don't think it should be > changed, as it would make the behavior more difficult to reason about > and introduce yet another thing to worry about when writing > cross-version code. Now it's becoming difficult: several people in f

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

2007-03-06 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Ilya Sandler schrieb: > I'd also suggest that request for test cases/docs comes after > (or together with) suggestion that a feature is desirable in the first > place. It depends. I was going through some old patches today, and came across one that added a class to heapq. I couldn't tell (even aft

Re: [Python-Dev] Subversion checkout hanging?

2007-03-06 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Nicholas Bastin schrieb: > I've had to blast my windows machine, as one is apparently required to > do on occasion, and I'm trying to set up subversion again. I saved my > private key file, and I can use plink -T to connect and I get: > > ( success ( 1 2 ( ANONYMOUS EXTERNAL ) ( edit-pipeline ) )

Re: [Python-Dev] splitext('.cshrc')

2007-03-06 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Phillip J. Eby schrieb: > I know I've written code like this that *depends* on the current > behavior. It's *useful* to classify e.g. .svn directories or .*rc files > by their "extension", so I'm honestly baffled by the idea of wanting to > treat such files as *not* having an extension (as oppo

Re: [Python-Dev] Finding the python library binaries (and docs)

2007-03-06 Thread Martin v. Löwis
David Abrahams schrieb: > I'm trying to find the Python library binaries associated with a given > python executable. This really isn't a python-dev question; please use python-list (news:comp.lang.python) instead. Please take a look at sys.path. > 1. I think the documentation for sys and conf

Re: [Python-Dev] how can I review? [was: Encouraging developers]

2007-03-06 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Jim Jewett schrieb: > The 5:1 patch review is a good idea -- but what is the procedure for > reviewing a patch? > > I often comment on patches. Does this count as a review? Sure. Ideally, a review should bring the patch to an "accept-or-reject" state, i.e. it should lead to a recommendation to

Re: [Python-Dev] splitext('.cshrc')

2007-03-06 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Larry Hastings schrieb: > Hope this helps, Indeed it does! After all this discussion, a documentation clarification is certainly in order, but I can work that out myself. Thanks, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.pyt

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

2007-03-06 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Terry Reedy schrieb: > It would also be helpful if the new tracker system could produce a list of > module-specific open items sorted by module, since that would indicate > modules needing attention, and I could look for a batch that were > unassigned. The new tracker will initially have the sa

Re: [Python-Dev] Finding the python library binaries (and docs)

2007-03-06 Thread Martin v. Löwis
David Abrahams schrieb: > on Tue Mar 06 2007, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: >> David Abrahams schrieb: >>> I'm trying to find the Python library binaries associated with a given >>> python executable. >> This really isn't a python-dev quest

Re: [Python-Dev] splitext('.cshrc')

2007-03-06 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Phillip J. Eby schrieb: > At 10:01 PM 3/6/2007 +0100, Martin v. Löwis wrote: >> It's unfortunate, of course, that people apparently relied on >> this behavior > > I was going to say it's the *documented* behavior, but I see that the > documentation is actually

Re: [Python-Dev] Finding the python library binaries (and docs)

2007-03-06 Thread Martin v. Löwis
David Abrahams schrieb: >> That absolutely cannot be the case. Python is open source, you have >> *everything* you need to answer this question. > > That assumes this is one of those questions to which "use the source" > is applicable. I think answering it requires some understanding of > intentio

Re: [Python-Dev] how can I review? [was: Encouraging developers]

2007-03-07 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Jim Jewett schrieb: > It has been quite a while since I worried about my own patches going > stale; I just want to know how my review time can be more useful. > > Once a committer has already decided to look at a patch, comments may > make the next step easier. > > But is there anyway to flag an

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

2007-03-07 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Barry Warsaw schrieb: > Jira had a way of automatically assigning certain categories to certain > people. I think the term was project leader or some such. Of course, > this didn't mean that someone else couldn't fix the bug or that the bug > couldn't be reassigned to someone else, but at leas

Re: [Python-Dev] splitext('.cshrc')

2007-03-07 Thread Martin v. Löwis
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: > More to the point, we know the cost, what's the benefit? Is there any > sort of bug that it is likely to prevent in *new* code? Yes. People are more likely to classify the file as "no extension", which more likely meets the user's expectation. Also, it won't happen

Re: [Python-Dev] splitext('.cshrc')

2007-03-07 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Terry Jones schrieb: > I do think the behavior can be improved, and that it should be fixed, but > at a place where other incompatible changes will also be being made, Indeed, 2.6 is such a place. Any feature release can contain incompatible behavior, and any feature release did contain incompati

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

2007-03-07 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Ron Adam schrieb: > But the tracker needs to be able to actually track the status of individual > items for this to work. Currently there's this huge list and you have to > either wade though it to find out the status of each item, or depend on > someone bring it to your attention. Well, the

Re: [Python-Dev] Lack of sequential decompression in the zipfile module

2007-03-07 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Nilton Volpato schrieb: > My Google Summer of Code project was just about this, and I > implemented a lot of nice features. These features include: file-like > access to zip member files (which solves your problem, and also > provides a real file-like interface including .read(), .readline(), > etc

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

2007-03-07 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Giovanni Bajo schrieb: > On 06/03/2007 10.52, Martin v. Löwis wrote: > >> I can't see that the barrier at contributing is high. > > I think this says it all. It now appears obvious to me that people > inside the "mafia" don't even realize there is one.

Re: [Python-Dev] cross-compile patches

2007-03-07 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Han-Wen Nienhuys schrieb: > 1608267 - added comment, asking for explanation. looks bogus. > 1608579 - problem analysis + solution looks good > 1507247 - I can reproduce the problem it tries to fix. Fix looks ok. > 1520879 - trivial fix; should go in. disregard the comment about relative > --prefix

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

2007-03-07 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Paul Moore schrieb: > 1. Open a new patch, with your recommended changes. I'd like to second this. If you are creating a patch by responding in a comment, it likely gets ignored. > 2. Address the comments made against Tony's patch, in yours. > 3. Add a recommendation to Tony's patch that it be

Re: [Python-Dev] splitext('.cshrc')

2007-03-07 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Josiah Carlson schrieb: >> Now it's becoming difficult: several people in favor, some opposed... > > What about changing the semantics of splitext and creating a new > function (available on all platforms) that does what the Windows version > currently does? > > For people who want the one semant

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

2007-03-07 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Titus Brown schrieb: > Hi, I just wanted to interject -- when I used the word "mafia", I meant > it in this sense: > > """ > Informal. A tightly knit group of trusted associates, as of a political > leader: [He] is one of the personal mafia that [the chancellor] > brought with him to Bonn. > """ >

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

2007-03-07 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Facundo Batista schrieb: > I finally understood the problem, and build python from the repository, > and made the tests from *this* python (actually, this was an easy step > because I'm on Ubuntu, but *I* would be dead if working in Windows, for > example). > > Ok. *Me*, that I'm not ashame of ask

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

2007-03-07 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Georg Brandl schrieb: > > Of course, the channel would have to be made an "official" Python development > tool and advertised on e.g. the website. Also, it couldn't hurt if some of the > other devs would frequent it too, then :) > I definitely won't: I don't use IRC (or any other chat infrastruct

Re: [Python-Dev] splitext('.cshrc')

2007-03-08 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Andrew Bennetts schrieb: > Glyph's proposing that rather than risk breaking existing code (and in the > worst > possible way: silently, giving wrong answers rather than exceptions), we > examine > what benefits changing splitext would bring, and see if there's a way to get > those benefits withou

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

2007-03-08 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Giovanni Bajo schrieb: I can't see that the barrier at contributing is high. >>> >>> I think this says it all. It now appears obvious to me that people >>> inside the "mafia" don't even realize there is one. Thus, it looks >>> like we are all wasting time in this thread, since they think th

Re: [Python-Dev] splitext('.cshrc')

2007-03-08 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Josiah Carlson schrieb: > Because we should refuse the temptation to guess, what about: > > Rename the posix splitext to X (for some X), and offer a function with > identical functionality to the posix variant under win32, also available > as X for that platform. > > Rename the (current) win32 sp

Re: [Python-Dev] Italic text in the manual

2007-03-08 Thread Martin v. Löwis
BJörn Lindqvist schrieb: > (This might be a silly question..) > > In the dev stdlib reference there are lots of pages in which all text > is in italics. Such as all chapters after chapter 18. Certainly not. In today's copy (8.3.07, 13:30 GMT), this starts between 18.17 and 18.17.1. However, look

Re: [Python-Dev] splitext('.cshrc')

2007-03-08 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Scott David Daniels schrieb: > c) Given a filename, make an appropriately named associated file. > pyo_name = os.path.splitext(name)[0] + '.pyo' > This argues for os.path.splitext('.pythonrc') == ('.pythonrc','') Indeed, somebody found that people apparently do back_name = spl

Re: [Python-Dev] splitext('.cshrc')

2007-03-08 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Alexey Borzenkov schrieb: > I don't understand only one thing, why do people need new functions? > You can anticipate the change today, and write functions that do > exactly what you need no matter which way (current or proposed) python > implements: Indeed, that's also true. When people actually

Re: [Python-Dev] Renaming Include/object.h

2007-03-08 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Collin Winter schrieb: > Was any course of action ever decided on for this issue, or was the > consensus that it would break too much code? If the latter, what about > making the change for Python 3000? Neither, nor. If a grand renaming is not feasible, I'd atleast do something about object.h for

Re: [Python-Dev] Policy Decisions, Judgment Calls, and Backwards Compatibility (was Re: splitext('.cshrc'))

2007-03-08 Thread Martin v. Löwis
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: > The real issue I have here is one of process. Why is it that PJE (or > any python user who wishes their code to keep working against new > versions of Python) must frequent python-dev and convince you (or > whatever Python developer might be committing a patch) of e

Re: [Python-Dev] Policy Decisions, Judgment Calls, and Backwards Compatibility (was Re: splitext('.cshrc'))

2007-03-09 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Grig Gheorghiu schrieb: > Titus and I are thinking about mentoring a Google Summer of Code > project that would use the 'buildbot try' feature: set up a bunch of > buildbot slaves and set them up so sending them a patch will trigger a > checkout of the latest Python svn, followed by the application

Re: [Python-Dev] version-specific PYTHONPATH env var

2007-03-09 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Anthony Baxter schrieb: > What do people think about the idea of a version-specific PYTHONPATH > environment variable? I agree with Guido. I normally need an application-specific PYTHONPATH, and I do that by editing the start script adding a sys.path.append into it (these days, Python application

Re: [Python-Dev] Policy Decisions, Judgment Calls, and Backwards Compatibility (was Re: splitext('.cshrc'))

2007-03-09 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Phillip J. Eby schrieb: > At 08:57 AM 3/9/2007 +0100, Martin v. Löwis wrote: >> In the case that triggered the discussion, the change implemented >> was not an incompatible change, because the new implementation still >> met the old specification (which, of course, was undersp

Re: [Python-Dev] datetime module enhancements

2007-03-09 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Christian Heimes schrieb: > BJörn Lindqvist schrieb: >> I think it should be a ValueError, given that the programmer is very >> likely to further use the returned timestamp to for example insert >> stuff in a database. Unix timestamps are not unambiguously defined for >> any years other than 1970 t

Re: [Python-Dev] datetime module enhancements

2007-03-09 Thread Martin v. Löwis
BJörn Lindqvist schrieb: >> If you extend the range to 64 bits there's no problem: the first >> should print 3250368, the second -2208988800. > > I think it should be a ValueError, given that the programmer is very > likely to further use the returned timestamp to for example insert > stuff i

Re: [Python-Dev] datetime module enhancements

2007-03-09 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Collin Winter schrieb: > > Any thoughts on this? There are know problems comparing durations (e.g. is 30 days more or less than a month?). For time stamps, there is no issue. For calender dates, there are again problems, in particular with time zones. What I don't know (because I never used it)

Re: [Python-Dev] Non implementation dependent access to calling scope

2007-03-10 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Michael Foord schrieb: > Hello all, > > I realise that this may be more relevant to Python ideas, in which case > feel free to ignore this (and my apologies). > > I occasionally see code looking (something) like : > > > calling_scope = sys._getframe(1).f_globals['__name__'] > > This looks and

Re: [Python-Dev] Backports of standard library modules

2007-03-12 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Patrick Maupin schrieb: > Although it is often quite easy to find and download a module for use > with a prior version of Python, it would be really convenient if all > of these modules were bundled up together and available as a single > download, especially when it comes to Windows users and exte

Re: [Python-Dev] Backports of standard library modules

2007-03-12 Thread Martin v. Löwis
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: > This does raise an interesting question, though, since I'm about to get > into PEP authorship myself. Have I missed an official way to propose > alternatives or resurrect a languishing PEP? See PEP 1. The PEP champion is obliged to integrate feedback into the PEP,

Re: [Python-Dev] Python version incorrect on website?

2007-03-12 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Rajstennaj Barrabas schrieb: > I have an application which runs on 2.4.4 and is known not to run on 2.4.1 or > 2.5, and I'm trying to install 2.4.4 from the website. > > Whenever I download and compile the 2.4.4 sources, the executable shows up as > 2.4.1 which will not work for my application. >

Re: [Python-Dev] Patch 1644818: Allow importing built-in submodules

2007-03-12 Thread Martin v. Löwis
> Sorry for the repetition, but since nobody has commented on patch > 1644818 for about a week I thought perhaps I should ask again. > > Is there anything I need to do before the patch is ready for inclusion? No; basically, you just need to be patient now. Do you have an urgent need to get this

Re: [Python-Dev] Patch 1644818: Allow importing built-in submodules

2007-03-12 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Miguel Lobo schrieb: > Also, seeing that there are almost 400 open patches in the patch > tracker, I'm concerned that this patch will be forgotten and left to > rot, which would be a pity IMO. Of course, the submitters of the 300 other patches say the same. It is just too difficult to catch up,

Re: [Python-Dev] Patch 1644818: Allow importing built-in submodules

2007-03-12 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Miguel Lobo schrieb: > Personally, I can't apply it as-is right now, since a) I would have to > check that the test case conditionalization works fine, and b) I would > have to come up with a patch for the Windows build process. > > > Sorry, I couldn't understand the second point. Wh

Re: [Python-Dev] Patch 1644818: Allow importing built-in submodules

2007-03-12 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Miguel Lobo schrieb: > My own patch does not include documentation. I assume documentation > would only be needed for patches that add new functionality (as opposed > to fixing problems)? Typically, yes. If the bug fix would also change the behavior of existing programs, that change should be d

Re: [Python-Dev] Patch 1644818: Allow importing built-in submodules

2007-03-12 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Miguel Lobo schrieb: > I need to integrate the extra test file into a project file (probably > pythoncore). > > > The change to pythoncore.vcproj is already in the patch I posted. > Otherwise I wouldn't have been able to run my test under Windows. Ah, ok, I misremembered. It is the UNI

Re: [Python-Dev] Patch 1644818: Allow importing built-in submodules

2007-03-12 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Miguel Lobo schrieb: > It won't benefit the Python core either, because we just don't use > builtin submodules. In fact, I find the notion of builtin submodules > somewhat strange. > > > Please excuse my curiosity, but why do you find it strange? Normally, the builtin modules are the

Re: [Python-Dev] Patch 1644818: Allow importing built-in submodules

2007-03-12 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Miguel Lobo schrieb: > Perhaps one example would help to clarify what I mean. I see that there > is an xml.parsers.expat module, with the following content: > > > > """Interface to the Expat non-validating XML parser.""" > __version__ = '$Revision: 17640 $' > > from pyexpat import * > >

Re: [Python-Dev] assert(obj) in Py_DECREF and Py_INCREF?

2007-03-13 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Georg Brandl schrieb: > Patch #1517947 suggests adding an assert for these. > > Is that acceptable or just considered a drop in ocean? I think it's pointless. If they ever be NULL, the INCRE/DECREF will crash right away, anyway, so you'll certainly notice. As you will have a debug build when the

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal to revert r54204 (splitext change)

2007-03-14 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Phillip J. Eby schrieb: > This backwards-incompatible change is therefore contrary to policy and > should be reverted, pending a proper transition plan for the change > (such as introduction of an alternative API and deprecation of the > existing one.) I'm clearly opposed to this proposal, or e

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal to revert r54204 (splitext change)

2007-03-14 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Phillip J. Eby schrieb: > That much is obvious. But I haven't seen any explanation as to why > explicitly-documented and explicitly-tested behavior should be treated > as a bug in policy terms, just because people don't like the documented > and tested behavior. It's not "just" that people dis

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal to revert r54204 (splitext change)

2007-03-14 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Thomas Wouters schrieb: > However, changing documented, tested behaviour without warning gives > Python an even worse name. I agree with PJE that the change is the wrong > thing to do, simply because it sets (yet another) precedent. If > providing an alternate API with clearer semantics is too '

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal to revert r54204 (splitext change)

2007-03-14 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Delaney, Timothy (Tim) schrieb: > A change to the documented behaviour should require a __future__ > import for at least one version. That's even assuming that the change > is desireable (I don't believe so). We have multiple anecdotes of > actual, existing code that *will* break with this change.

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal to revert r54204 (splitext change)

2007-03-14 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Phillip J. Eby schrieb: > And yet, that "incorrect" behavior was clearly intended by the author(s) > of the code, test, and docstrings. > > As it happens, Guido wrote that code (16 years ago) and the docstring (9 > years ago), in the case of the posixpath module at least. I don't find it that c

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal to revert r54204 (splitext change)

2007-03-14 Thread Martin v. Löwis
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: > >This backwards-incompatible change is therefore contrary to policy and > >should be reverted, pending a proper transition plan for the change (such > >as introduction of an alternative API and deprecation of the existing > one.) > > I hope that this is true, but *

[Python-Dev] Status of thread cancellation

2007-03-15 Thread Martin v. Löwis
I just proposed to implement thread cancellation for the SoC. Is there any prior work where one could start? Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.py

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of thread cancellation

2007-03-15 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Jean-Paul Calderone schrieb: >> I inferred from Martin's proposal that he >> expected the thread to be able to catch the exception. Perhaps he can >> elaborate on what cleanup actions the dying thread will be allowed to >> perform. > > Perhaps he can. Hopefully, he can specifically address these

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal to revert r54204 (splitext change)

2007-03-15 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Phillip J. Eby schrieb: > If it weren't for the code breakage, I'd be in favor too. That's not the > point. > > The point is that how can Python be stable as a language if precedents can > be reversed without a migration plan, just because somebody changes their > mind? In another five years,

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of thread cancellation

2007-03-15 Thread Martin v. Löwis
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: > Just in case it's not clear from the other things I've said: this is a > terrible, terrible idea, and I am shocked that it is even being > *considered* for inclusion in Python. As a foolish youth, I wasted many > months trying to get a program that used Java's (then

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal to revert r54204 (splitext change)

2007-03-15 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Steve Holden schrieb: > This is not "prevarication", it's a serious discussion about how such > issues should be managed. The current glaring lack is of a sound > decision-making process. Such breakage-inducing change should be > reserved for major versions (as was the fix to the socket address

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal to revert r54204 (splitext change)

2007-03-15 Thread Martin v. Löwis
> This particular change looks like gratuitous breakage, no matter how > sound the reasons for it, and putting it in to 2.6 with 3.0 "just around > the corner" (though not for production purposes) is guaranteed to upset > some people and cause adverse reaction. > > This is not "prevarication",

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal to revert r54204 (splitext change)

2007-03-15 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Mike Krell schrieb: > When I first needed to use splitext in my code, I tested the relevant > corner case in question at the interactive prompt. I also read the > docstring which explicitly documented the behavior. I then wrote my > code accordingly. Can you show us the relevant fragment of your

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal to revert r54204 (splitext change)

2007-03-15 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Mike Krell schrieb: > FWIW, I agree completely with PJE's and glyph's remarks with respect > to expectations of stability, especially in a minor release. Not sure what you mean by "minor release". The change isn't proposed for the next bug fix release (2.5.1), but for the next major release (2.6

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal to revert r54204 (splitext change)

2007-03-15 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Mike Krell schrieb: > Sure: > > for f in files: > try: > (root, ext) = os.path.splitext(f) > os.rename(f, '%s.%s%s' % (root, index, ext)) > except OSError: > die('renaming %s failed' % f) Thanks! Looking more closely, it's not entirely clear

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal to revert r54204 (splitext change)

2007-03-15 Thread Martin v. Löwis
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: > >Not sure what you mean by "minor release". The change isn't proposed > >for the next bug fix release (2.5.1), but for the next major release > >(2.6). See PEP 6. > > Common parlance for the parts of a version number is: > major.minor.micro > See: > > http:

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal to revert r54204 (splitext change)

2007-03-15 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Georg Brandl schrieb: > As a sidenote, this item should be included in the 2.6 "What's new"'s > "porting" > section. > > Perhaps it would be a good "policy" to automatically list potentially breaking > fixes there instead of rolling off that task to Andrew. I would do that, except that Andrew ex

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal to revert r54204 (splitext change)

2007-03-15 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Stephen Hansen schrieb: > And it'd be so easy to do it in a way which wouldn't be silent... just > throw out a warning, and defer the actual change until the next release. I disagree that it easy to do that. Implementation-wise, it probably is. However, I feel that warnings have a *very* high cos

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal to revert r54204 (splitext change)

2007-03-15 Thread Martin v. Löwis
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: > However, the decision was a bad one regardless of the existing policy, > and sets a bad precedent while we are discussing this policy. I could > be wrong, but I think it would be reasonable to assume that if Martin > strongly supports such a change, Martin would opp

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal to revert r54204 (splitext change)

2007-03-15 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Mike Krell schrieb: > Here is a point of confusion. Bear in mind I'm running this under > windows, so explorer happily reports that ".emacs" has a type of > "emacs". (In windows, file types are registered in the system based > on the extension -- all the characters following the last dot. Is it

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal to revert r54204 (splitext change)

2007-03-16 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Phillip J. Eby schrieb: > Some other options: > > 1. Deprecate splitext() and remove it in 3.0 How would that help the problem? Isn't it useful to have a function that strips off the extension? > 2. Add an optional flag argument to enable the new behavior How would that help backwards compatibi

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal to revert r54204 (splitext change)

2007-03-16 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Thomas Wouters schrieb: > Hah, everyone agree? They weren't agreeing when you changed it, either > :) But no, we don't add a warning *and* change the API. We add a warning > *about* changing the API. 2.6 sees no semantic change, just a warning > when os.path.splitext is used on a dotfile with no

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal to revert r54204 (splitext change)

2007-03-16 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Patrick Maupin schrieb: > The worst part is, if they are relying on that specific behavior and have > to rely on the new specific behavior, and want to support old and new > versions of Python, they are potentially left with some very unattractive > options -- check the Python version to figure out

Re: [Python-Dev] What's New maintenance

2007-03-16 Thread Martin v. Löwis
A.M. Kuchling schrieb: > Where should I add a note about this: a comment at the top of > whatsnew.tex, maybe? That would be good. Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsub

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal to revert r54204 (splitext change)

2007-03-16 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Steve Holden schrieb: >> Somebody has pointed out that it is fairly easy to write a wrapper >> around splitext that explicitly produces the old behavior on all >> versions, or the new behavior on all versions, depending on what >> precisely is desired. Users that have coded for a specific behavio

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal to revert r54204 (splitext change)

2007-03-16 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Mike Krell schrieb: > On 3/16/07, "Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> If they pass the flag to the function, the code will stop running on >> 2.5 and earlier. This is worse than having code that works on all >> versions. This is also whz

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal to revert r54204 (splitext change)

2007-03-16 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Patrick Maupin schrieb: > On 3/16/07, "Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Assuming the current behavior is a bug (which I still believe to be >> the case), in order to actually make use of the bug fix, you have to >> pass the parameter. This will

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

2007-03-18 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Tony Meyer schrieb: > ISTM that there is value in submitting a patch (including tests and > documentation, and making appropriate comment in related patches), even > if that is all that is done (i.e. no follow-up). That's certainly, absolutely, true. It's also true that there are very many kind

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal to revert r54204 (splitext change)

2007-03-18 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Guido van Rossum schrieb: > And Martin, if I decide that the change should be > rolled back, will you be okay with that? Certainly. I would wish somebody contributed a documentation patch pointing out that specific detail in the documentation (and in the process making the documentation match the

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal to revert r54204 (splitext change)

2007-03-19 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Phillip J. Eby schrieb: > Actually, he asked first if we *want* him to make one, and my answer to > that is above: I don't think it's necessary. Like Martin, I believe we are > within sight of a consensus. And I think that's better for Python and > Python-Dev than dragging Guido into it. I a

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal to revert r54204 (splitext change)

2007-03-19 Thread Martin v. Löwis
> Specifically, however, I would prefer to see it without the warning and > future change, as I don't think it provides any real benefit. Either > way, some people will have to use a keyword to get what they want, so > making a change seems unnecessary. > > However, if we have to change someth

Re: [Python-Dev] SoC AST generation question

2007-03-20 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Jay Parlar schrieb: > 1) Who would most likely mentor this project? As Brett says, it all depends on the applications we receive and those that get accepted. That said, it might be me. > 2) I've never worked in the core before (but have been using Python as > my primary language for about 6 years

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal to revert r54204 (splitext change)

2007-03-20 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Ronald Oussoren schrieb: >> I don't understand. Example? > > You conveniently ignored my other arguments ;-). > > Given a splitext that ignores leading dot's the following function doesn't: > # from os.path import * > def splitext2(path): > dn = dirname(path) >

Re: [Python-Dev] Cross Compiling Python

2007-03-20 Thread Martin v. Löwis
> I have to cross compile Python to run on Arm processor based MontaVista > Linux. > If anyone has tried this already, please let me know the procedure. Dear Kiran, The python-dev mailing list is for the development *of* Python, not for the development *with* Python; use python-list@python.org

Re: [Python-Dev] Patchs and bugs resume

2007-03-20 Thread Martin v. Löwis
>> old and had not been touched in ages. Hopefully you will be able to >> easily port this over to the new tracker once it's up (that should >> happen 2-4 weeks after 2.5.1 is released). > > You can be sure I'll port it... When you do, make sure you take a look at roundup's search facilities. Ro

Re: [Python-Dev] trunk and 2.5 are borken

2007-03-21 Thread Martin v. Löwis
> test_posixpath is failing in: test_relpath This is due to #1339796, r54419. I left a comment in the tracker. Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail

Re: [Python-Dev] trunk and 2.5 are borken

2007-03-21 Thread Martin v. Löwis
> Patch 1490190 causes test_posix to fail on Tru64 due to chflags(). I have a potential fix for that in the tracker. Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.py

Re: [Python-Dev] Calling base class methods from C

2007-03-21 Thread Martin v. Löwis
> class List(list): > def append(self, x): > print x > List.append(self, x) # What is the C equivalent of this call? Always literally what you write in Python (assuming you meant list.append): PyObject_CallMethod(PyList_Type, "append", "OO", self, x); HTH, Martin _

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