g and escaping and such, and that could be
done while the text is in bytes form.But the tools for that exists...
Is there some specific tool that is missing?
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2010/6/21 Stephen J. Turnbull :
> IMO, the UI is right. "Something" like the above "ought" to work.
Right. That said, many times when you want to do urlparse etc they
might be binary, and you might want binary. So maybe the methods
should work with both?
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> use Python 3… yet".
Well, it *should* say: "If you need to ask if you should use Python 2
or Python 3, you probably are better off with Python 2 for the
moment". But that's a bit long. :-)
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On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 18:20, Laurens Van Houtven wrote:
> 2.x or 3.x? http://tinyurl.com/py2or3
Wow. That's almost not an improvement... That link doesn't really help
anyone choose at all.
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+33
On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 23:26, Simon de Vlieger wrote:
> That part of the topic will be replaced after all feedback is gathered on
> the new article Laurens provided at:
> http://python-commandments.org/python3.html as stated earlier in this
> thread.
OK, great, I missed that!
ction, it's just a missing
feature in the stdlib.
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olution is pytz. :-)
What pytz doesn't have (but dateutil.tz does) is a timezone object
that uses the operating systems local timezone data, like
/etc/localzone on unix. That could be interesting to include,
possibly. Having a fixed time zone offset object for the localtime
seems a bad idea. The p
a moratorium anyway.
Improvements in the standard library can be more easily done in
external libraries anyway, and then you can release the improved
libraries for everything from Python 2.4 and forwards if you like.
So it can be done, but the question is "Why?"
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alue):
if isinstance(value, str):
# It's a unicode string:
value = value.encode('ISO-8859-1')
return super(Bites, cls).__new__(cls, value)
def itemint(self, x):
return self[x]
def iterint(self)
2010/11/8 James Y Knight :
> On Nov 8, 2010, at 4:42 AM, Lennart Regebro wrote:
>> Except for making releases that start backporting Python 3 features
>> and breaking backwards compatibility gradually (which may or may not
>> be a good idea) I don't see the point. Ther
> audit_log("Deposited: " + amountstr)
>
> Auditor:
>
> $ cat numbered-account.log
> Deposited: ?.??
That log reasonably should be in UTF-8 or something else, in which
case this is not a problem. And that's ignoring that it makes way more
sense to log the nu
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 09:23, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Sure you can. In Python program text, all keywords will be ASCII
Yes, yes, sure, but not the contents of variables,
> I see no reason not to make a similar promise for numeric literals.
Wait what, literas? The example was
>>> float('
2010/12/2 Stephen J. Turnbull :
> Because that works, but
>
> print(T1234)
>
> doesn't (it prints ASCII). You can't round-trip, but users will
> want/expect that.
You should be able to round-trip, absolutely. I don't think you should
expect print() to do that. str(56) possibly. :)
That's an argum
On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 20:17, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> And I'm not sure what this package called "Python" is (“a high-level
> object-oriented programming language”? like Java?), but I'm pretty sure
> I've heard there's a Python 3 compatible version.
Uhm... http://pypi.python.org/pypi/Python
Anybo
On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 12:20, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Agreed. Although better to defer it to 3.3.0 at this point.
+1.0.0 for that.
Yes, it's confusing, but it's going to be even more confusing if it's
called 3.2 sometimes and 3.2.0 sometimes.
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making 3.2 a moot and unsupported
version. It can possibly be removed in 3.3, but better would be 3.4.
It must be possible to support 3-4 releases of Python with the current
release speed. We need to support python versions that are five years
old or so. In fact the deprecation period should probab
On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 09:20, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
>> In fact, since the deprecation in the Python 2 line happened in 2.7,
>> the deprecation period of this API in practice was between July 3rd
>> 2010 and February 20 2011. That is a deprecation period of somewhat
>> longer than seven months.
On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 19:22, Reid Kleckner wrote:
> I don't know how your code works, but handling either type from C
> seems very straightforward to me. You can simply use #ifdef
> Py_COBJECT_H to see if the cobject.h header was pulled into Python.h.
> Similarly for Py_CAPSULE_H. All you lose
On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 12:02, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
> If you actually had been supporting 2.x and 3.x in parallel for the last two
> years, you would have had a deprecation period of 19 months
> and two releases. It's only if you are now migrating from 2 to 3
> that you notice the breakage for
On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 15:39, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
> Of course you could have. You could have added a version of your code
> that uses capsules (just as you are probably doing now).
No I'm not.
> Right - and that's why the deprecation period is not about supporting
> multiple versions, but
On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 18:56, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> why not just consider this another
> instance of the 2.x/3.x incompatibility? That's what it is after all.
Apparently not, as the code already ran under Python 3.1.
//Lennart
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On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 19:14, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Beside, if you need long-term support, there is a well-known solution:
> turn to a company that provides such support. That company can be called
> Redhat, Canonical, ActiveState or even Apple. The community of
> volunteers called python-dev i
On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 21:54, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> I don't know what other core devs, but I don't think this discussion is
> going anywhere. If porting the ZTK is a burden for you, perhaps you
> should try to find some financial support for it (or let other people
> do it for you), rather than
On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 22:42, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> Fortunately there may not be any more such cases since no new major
> versions of Python 2 will be released. So I'm not sure what an update
> of PEP 5 will buy us.
That is a good point. But at least making sure no more API's get
deprecated
On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 22:58, Lennart Regebro wrote:
> That is a good point. But at least making sure no more API's get
> deprecated in 3.3 (and preferably 3.4)
I meant removed.
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On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 00:23, Terry Reedy wrote:
> People should retest their stuff with each micro
> (bugfix) release anyway.
That would be creating an insane burden on library developers.
Besides, I've so far not have things break between micro releases, it
must be very unusual.
That said, wh
On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 03:42, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> 5. The parallel evolution of the 2.x and 3.x line meant that the first
> version of 2.x with the relevant warning was released only ~7 months
> or so before the version of 3.2 where the API was removed
An additional issue that makes it particul
On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 22:12, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> The main one that comes to my mind is that other than looping, any time I
> want to process dict.items() etc I often need to call list() first.
"Process" no. If you want it to be a list, yes. This is because they
now return generators, which
On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 13:01, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> But the improvement is exactly what Anatoly is talking about: it's an
> improvement in speed over user convenience. If all you are doing is
> iterating over a moderately-sized dictionary, you probably don't care
> whether items() etc. returns
On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 22:40, Lennart Regebro wrote:
> The lesson here seems to be "if you have to use blacklists, and you
> use unicode strings for those blacklists, also make sure the string
> you compare with doesn't have surrogates".
>
For that matter, what happen
The lesson here seems to be "if you have to use blacklists, and you
use unicode strings for those blacklists, also make sure the string
you compare with doesn't have surrogates".
//Lennart
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On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 07:54, Toshio Kuratomi wrote:
> Lennart is missing that you just need to use the same encoding
> + surrogateescape (or stick with bytes) for decoding the byte strings that
> you are comparing.
You lost me here. I need to do this for what?
//Lennart
___
On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 23:17, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
> I think the whole blacklist example is artificial. The string in the
> blacklist is actually a Chinese "hello" greeting, so it surely isn't
> the string being blacklisted. For proper blacklisting, you would likely
> use substring searches,
Hasn't it always been like that? I tried with Python 2.3 now and it's
the same. I have no memory of that actually changing an existing
variable in any version of Python I've used. More testing turns out
that this works:
-> print "lv is ", lv
(Pdb) lv=2
(Pdb) c
lv is 2
While this seem to "reset"
gt; simply?
I say "all of the above". It could be good to find a OS/2 and OpenVMS
developer mailing list as well, and post it there.
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ggested?
This has been partly fixed for Python 3.2, although it can still
happen if you compare two types that both use the total_ordering
decorator. See http://bugs.python.org/issue10042 .
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Porting to
On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 00:15, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On Jun 02, 2011, at 12:57 PM, Glenn Linderman wrote:
>
>>On 6/2/2011 12:01 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>> Bingo. That's why. (Though you are missing some colons in your examples.:-)
>>>
>>> --Guido
>>
>>You operate as a good Python compiler :)
>
e with point cuts?
I'm not sure why you would say this isn't allowed already...
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> Could we point them to a special byte-code compiler such as Andrew
> Dalke's python4ply:
??? I'm not sure what this means... :)
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xperience in writing code for evolving APIs, this is
how things have been done in the Zope community for years. It's not a
problem. It does not lead to fragile code.
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The community
doesn't have the resources to maintain momentum in a language if the
energy is divided in half.
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I am talking about looks.
>
> Can you give me examples of such software?
I'll repeat the link where I explained my point on this:
http://regebro.wordpress.com/2008/03/22/why-python-26-and-30-compatibility-would-be-a-very-good-thing/
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f module are the same people will have big
difficulties with the 2to3 approach and would be the people who are
most likely to not be able to in practice go forward to Python 3
unless they have some sort of smooth path forward.
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h
ped in that kind
of environment, and I'm sorry I'm not able to make this clearer. But
that's just the way it is.
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to test the code in both
environments, so I don't see how that is a difference.
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t;The Plone collective" is not
> a specific example
It is a specific example.
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On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Paul Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 24/03/2008, Lennart Regebro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 11:29 AM, Thomas Wouters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > safe assumption to make. A simple preproce
her desirable, or
> your current practice).
I think maybe you missed the statement I responded to, claiming that
2to3 would require no knowledge about the differences between Python
2.6 and 3.0, implying that you could just run it, and it would always
work, which I don't believe.
--
p process, it is impossible to identify if there
> is any point in the procedure where an invocation of 2to3 could be
> inserted relatively painlessly.
It can't. That's the whole point.
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still think the
forwards compatibility that exists in 2.6 is a good idea, and the more
of it the better.
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amples.
No I don't. Here is what I said:
"In many other cases, this is not how code is developed. Both within
larger organisations and within large communities like Zope and
Plone".
I don't think chewing through this issue once more is meaningful, so
I'll stop now.
--
Has somebody made a list of the problems with eggs? Because I use them
all the time and hasn't encountered any problems whatsoever, myself...
:) So I am a bit surprised at the various discussions about them.
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t;
> | and
> |
> | for {variable} in filter(lambda: {condition}, iterable):
> |{block}
>
> IDLE 3.0a5
>>>> for i in filter(lambda i: i%2, range(10)):
> print(i)
>
>
> 1
> 3
> 5
> 7
> 9
How was it again? "One and only one way"? :-
cially if the
old names are still available after the future import, as all that
would then be needed it to repickle all the pickles to convert from
2.5 to 3.0 pickles, right?
So, if I understood this correctly, that sounds like a perfect solution. :)
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http
en 'print' writes to
> sys.stdout.
Isn't it then enough to make sure your locale setting are correct?
(Never had any problems myself, if works great in Ubuntu).
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add that (or any other tests) that would be very
appreciated!
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e examples of the
C-api changes as well. That would really help in migrating and writing
a migration guide. It would be great if you could help with this!
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h, these changes should be properly documented in the CHANGES.txt.
I've seen some C-API chnges mentiones at least.
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de Zope itself is using
this call, which is hard to say.
Options here are
1. Deprecating the "with" parameter for "with_" and supporting both in
2.12 but not supporting Python2.6.
2. Using **kw in the argument and looking for noth "with" and "with_",
that way,
ror under 2.6 that is not a syntaxerror under 2.5, so the
import fails, or the C-modules that it uses fail it's compile during
setup, so import of them failed.
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t now, and I
agree that it would be great if this would start now.
But writing a guide might not be a good idea until we know what the
changes are, and if the API is changing quickly now we don't. :-)
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I've added a setup.py to the python-incompatibilities projects code,
so adding c-extention modules should now be much easier. I don't do
much c-development myself, so I'm not the right person to do this, but
anybody that feels like adding C-extensions to this project is more
than welcome to do so.
nt goes away since
you can't use the proper symbols anyway, and ambiguity is
reintroduced.
It seems to me that mathematicians who need these things would be
better served by dedicated maths-software.
Just my 2 cents.
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http://www.colli
or str) a possibility? It may be that this
isn't a problem in practice, I don't know yet. :)
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seven years of heavy Python programming.
>>
>> - Tal
>> ___
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>> http://mail.python.org/ma
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 18:49, James Y Knight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Dec 10, 2008, at 5:55 AM, Lennart Regebro wrote:
>
>> Turns out, I created an empty time.py in /tmp, just to see the error
>> message. By buildout will when creating eggs from checked out
t's uses,
just not the one *you* want.
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htt
The fix_imports fix seems to fix only the first import per line that you have.
So if you do for example
import urllib2, cStringIO
it will not fix cStringIO.
Is this a bug or a feature? :-) If it's a feature it should warn at
least, right?
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ing removal of threads but rather the Java threading model.
> I just think it is a mistake to let multiple OS threads touch the same
> interpreter.
Does Python have a java threading model? I don't know java well enough
to know what that is. :)
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replacing it seems to be a better
idea at first glance, but what if you then end up with two filenames
that are the same? Possibly replacing with the character is a good
idea to notify that the file is there, but fail then fail to open it.
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On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 19:19, Alexandre Vassalotti
wrote:
> Which revision of python are you using? I tried the test-case you gave
> and 2to3 translated it perfectly.
3.0, I haven't tried with trunk yet, and possibly it's a more
complicated usecase.
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e open a bug on bugs.python.org
> and set me as the assignee (my user id is alexandre.vassalotti).
Actually, it wasn't more complex, but it was completely different. It
doesn't have anything with the amount of statements, but it's
specifically if you have urlparse in the imports tha
On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 20:02, Lennart Regebro wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 19:49, Alexandre Vassalotti
> wrote:
>>> 3.0, I haven't tried with trunk yet, and possibly it's a more
>>> complicated usecase.
>>
>> Strange, fix_imports in Python 3.0
Just my 2 eurocents:
I think version numbers communicate a couple of things. One thing the
communicate is that if you go from x.y.0 to x.y.1 (or from x.y.34 to
x.y.35 for that matter) you signify that this is a bug fix release,
and that the risk of any of your stuff breaking is close to zero,
unle
+1 for env or sandbox or something else with "box" in it.
pythonbox? envbox? boxenv?
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On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 17:18, Amaury Forgeot d'Arc wrote:
> Hi,
> 2011/11/9 Barry Warsaw
>>
>> I think we should have an official pronouncement about Python 2.8, and
>> PEPs
>> are as official as it gets 'round here.
>
> Do we need to designate a release manager?
I volunteer. It's on my level of
"from future import unicode_literals" is my fault. I'm sorry. It's
pretty useless. It was suggested by somebody and I then supported it's
adding, instead of allowing u'' which I suggested. But it doesn't
work.
One reason is that you need to be able to say "This should be str in
Python 2, and binar
On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 03:53, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> Are you saying that with that future import, b"..." is still a Unicode
> literal?
If I said that, this is not what I was trying to say. :-)
//Lennart
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On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 04:34, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> Sorry, I don't understand this. What does it mean to be "str in both
> versions"? And why would you want that?
It means that it's a str, that is a string of bytes, in Python 2, and
a str, that is a string of Unicode characters, in Python 3. Th
Slightly OT:
The slowness of running 2to3 during install time can be fixed by not
doing so, but instead running it when the distribution is created,
including both Python 2 and Python 3 code in the distribution.
http://python3porting.com/2to3.html#distribution-section
There are no tools that sup
On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 17:38, Éric Araujo wrote:
> When running 2to3 from a setup.py script, does it run on the whole
> codebase or only files that are found newer by the make-like
> timestamp-based dependency system?
Only on the ones that are newer. But since at install time, that's all
of them,
On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 13:15, Ben Finney wrote:
> Guido van Rossum writes:
>
>> On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Cedric Sodhi wrote:
>>
>> > IF YOU THINK YOU MUST REPLY SOMETHING WITTY, ITERATE THAT THIS HAD
>> > BEEN DISCUSSED BEFORE, REPLY THAT "IT'S SIMPLY NOT GO'NNA HAPPEN",
>> > THAT "WHO
On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 14:33, Laurence Rowe wrote:
> Could this manual work be cut down if there was a version of 2to3 that
> targeted the subset of the language that is compatible with both 2 and 3?
Not really, but a 2to6, ie something that tries to keep Python 2
compatibility by using the six
On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 23:38, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 8:17 AM, Michael Foord
> wrote:
>> More specifically "six" [1] is the name of Benjamin Peterson's support
>> package to help write code that works on both 2 and 3. So the idea is that
>> the conversion isn't just a strai
On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 17:33, Tres Seaver wrote:
> Not in the experience of the folks who are actually doing that task: the
> overhead of running 2to3 every time 'setup.py develop' etc. runs dooms
> the effort. For instance, we have a report that the 2to3 step takes more
> than half an hour (on
On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 02:24, Victor Stinner
wrote:
> - Glenn Linderman proposes to fix the vulnerability by adding a new
> "safe" dict type (only accepting string keys). His proof-of-concept
> (SafeDict.py) uses a secret of 64 random bits and uses it to compute
> the hash of a key.
This is my p
On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 01:48, Victor Stinner
wrote:
> - the limit should be configurable: a new function in the sys module
> should be enough. It may be private (or replaced by an environment
> variable?) in stable versions
I'd like to see both. I would like both the programmer and the "user"
t
On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 11:11, Victor Stinner
wrote:
>> This seed is chosen randomly at runtime, but cannot
>> change once chosen.
>
> The hash is used to compare objects: if hash(obj1) != hash(obj2),
> objects are considered different. So two strings must have the same
> hash if their value is th
On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 06:02, Paul McMillan wrote:
>> We may use a different salt per dictionary.
>
> If we're willing to re-hash everything on a per-dictionary basis. That
> doesn't seem reasonable given our existing usage.
Well, if we get crazy amounts of collisions, re-hashing with a new
salt
On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 20:08, stefan brunthaler wrote:
> I understand all of these issues. Currently, it's not really a mess,
> but much more complicated as it needs to be for only supporting the
> inca optimization.
I really don't think that is a problem. The core contributors can deal
well with
#x27;' prefix is the easiest, most
obvious/intuitive/pythong/whatever way of getting that support, that
requires the least amount of code change, and the least ugly code.
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Porting to Python 3:
On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 08:51, Vinay Sajip wrote:
> Lennart Regebro gmail.com> writes:
>
>> I'm +1 on the PEP, for reasons already repeated here.
>> We need three types of strings when supporting both Python 2 and
>> Python 3. A binary string, a unicode string
On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 13:10, Vinay Sajip wrote:
> We might be at cross purposes here. I don't see how Distribute helps, because
> the use case I'm talking about is not about distributing or installing stuff,
> but iteratively changing and testing code which needs to work on 2.6+, 3.2 and
> 3.3+.
All the various strategies for supporting Python 2 and Python 3 as
well as their various drawbacks and ways around this is covered in my
book, chapter 2. :-)
http://python3porting.com/strategies.html
I may be too late to point this out, but it feels like this discussion
could have been shorter if
On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 16:30, Giampaolo Rodolà wrote:
> Il 28 febbraio 2012 15:20, Ezio Melotti ha scritto:
>> (Note: there are also other costs -- e.g. releasing -- that I haven't
>> considered because they don't affect me personally, but I'm not sure they
>> are big enough to make the two-bran
On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 16:39, Vinay Sajip wrote:
> Serhiy Storchaka gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Another pertinent question: "What are disadvantages of PEP 414 is adopted?"
>
> It's moot, but as I see it: the purpose of PEP 414 is to facilitate a single
> codebase across 2.x and 3.x.
The bytes/nativ
On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 21:27, Ethan Furman wrote:
> Here's what I know:
>
> We don't add features to bug-fix releases.
> u'' is considered a feature.
> By not backporting to 3.1 and 3.2 we are not easing the migration pains from
> 2.x.
If this is added to 3.2.3, then some programs will work with
I also don't agree with the claim that a py3 version using 2to3 is a
"second class citizen". You need to adopt the Python 2 code to Python
3 in that case too, and none of the overrules the other.
//Lennart
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Just my 2 cents on the PEP rewrite:
u'' support is not just if you want to write code that doesn't use
2to3. Even when you use 2to3 it is useful to be able to flag strings s
binary, unicode or "native".
//Lennart
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On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 15:26, Serhiy Storchaka wrote:
> 02.03.12 15:49, Lennart Regebro написав(ла):
>
>> Just my 2 cents on the PEP rewrite:
>>
>> u'' support is not just if you want to write code that doesn't use
>> 2to3. Even when you use 2
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