about it", however, I don't think this is the
conclusion that you had in mind.
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xisting software.
Unfortunately, the only way to find out whether a solution will be ruled
out is to propose it first. Only then you'll see what response you get.
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s is an allocation spike, and
back off. The tricky question is how to find out that the spike is
over.
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nk any strategies based on timing will be successful.
Instead, one should count and analyze objects (although I'm unsure
how exactly that could work).
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--
r17274 | jhylton | 2000-09-05 17:44:50 +0200 (Di, 05 Sep 2000) | 2 lines
Geänderte Pfade:
M /python/trunk/Modules/gcmodule.c
compromise value for threshold0: not too high, not too low
----
Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Le samedi 21 juin 2008 à 17:49 +0200, "Martin v. Löwis" a écrit :
>> I don't think any strategies based on timing will be successful.
>> Instead, one should count and analyze objects (although I'm unsure
>> how exactly that could
er of objects will see no
change in behavior, also, applications that create
lots of small cycles will continue to see them collected
in the youngest or middle generations.
Please let me know what you think.
Regards,
Martin
P.S. I don't plan to implement this myself, so if you like
the idea
t there is GC, and that they can tune it.
I don't think there is a "real solution". I think programmers should
abstain from complaining if they can do something about the problem
in their own application (unless the complaint is formulated as a
patch) - wait - I think prog
o those cycles would
> never be collected.
Correct. However, this is the case already today.
> Wouldn't it be simpler just to base the collection frequency
> directly on the total number of objects in the heap?
Using what precise formula?
Regards,
Martin
ly can also keep 1.1N objects in memory.
Regards,
Martin
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ap * some_constant
So what value is some_constant?
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rned
from arenas allocated? Or apply this to triggering other generation
collections but youngest? How would that help the quadratic behavior
(which really needs to apply a factor somewhere)?
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ay - but it's not certain (for me) that such a scheme would cause GC
to be triggered less often, in a typical application.
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> I'm just doing some housekeeping on a Windows install, and notice that
> the 'Publisher' of my Python 2.4 and 2.5 installs is shown as "Martin v.
> Lowis". Whilst I *personally* find this very reassuring I wonder if this
> is intended / ideal?
I certainly in
> I think there may also still be room for some additional discussion
> on the output format;
If so, I think the change should be reverted, and the feature deferred
to 2.7/3.1.
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jects is
> interesting? Is there a way to override this behavior?
I think you misunderstand. Python releases unused string objects just
fine, and automatically. It doesn't even need GC for that.
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Martin
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ic objects should
still trigger cyclic GC (in the hope that some objects hang on a
garbage cycle) is a question that is open to debate; I'd prefer an
analysis of existing applications before making decisions.
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Martin
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llocation occurring.
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arnings module). But I really think
> that whoever made the change which broke it should be the one
> investigating it, not me.
How could they have known that they broke it?
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an official answer on the web page.
So I'm skeptical that anybody will change the web page - just continue
asking questions as you encounter them.
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ethods on floatobjects.
> Will work-up a patch.
I think the feature is misguided in the first place. Why do you want
a hex representation of floating point numbers? Can't you use
struct.pack for that? And, if bin/hex/oct are useful, why not base
6 (say)?
Regards,
Martin
> I want python developers to pay attention to the community buildbots
I don't think that goal is realistic. Instead, somebody who has actual
interest in this matter should pay this attention, and then bring it up
on python-dev when something breaks.
Regards
riority, so that realistically, such a policy
might not be established within the next two years.
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Martin
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Maintaining the community buildbots has proven
infeasible.
It's unfortunate that many package authors don't understand that not
all breakage is deliberate, and that their only chance to get undesired
breakage reverted is to report bugs NOW.
Regards,
Martin
he feature should be symmetric: If there is
support for printing floating point numbers as hex, there should
also be support for hex floating point literals.
Also, to follow C's tradition, it would be better if that was
*not* integrated into
; *not* integrated into the hex function (or a hex method), but
> if there was support for %a in string formatting.
>
>
> I'd be delighted with '%a' support.
I personally find that much less problematic than extending the
hex, and wouldn't object t
adecimal-digit-sequence .
binary-exponent-part:
p sign-opt digit-sequence
P sign-opt digit-sequence
hexadecimal-digit-sequence:
hexadecimal-digit
hexadecimal-digit-sequence hexadecimal-digit
scanf and strtod support the same format.
Regards,
Martin
t;deferred blocker" issues to some other priority,
I'll do that manually in a matter of minutes (using a query to find
all issues with that priority).
Regards,
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> The disadvantage is the loss of evalability. (Is that a word?)
Until the parser has support for it, having a float class method,
or even the float callable itself for conversion seems reasonable.
If repr() didn't produce it, eval() doesn't need to understand it.
Re
> Now that I've learned about the hex float format supported by C++ and
> Java, I wonder if it wouldn't be better to support conversion to and
> from that format and nothing else.
I would be fine with that, and prefer it over the original chang
Jeff Hall wrote:
> That's all fine and good but in this case there may be "stealth errors".
That is fully understood, in all of its consequences.
Regards,
Martin
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start implementing it
now, of course.
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idn't even know was written in Python.
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.5, so it can't be so serious to annoy
end-users with a warning they don't know how to deal with.
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Martin
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_unlink = os.unlink
def __init__(self):
open(self.filename, 'wb')
def __del__(self):
self._unlink(self.filename)
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ology) might
hold up collections for too long, in some cases. Whether or not 10%
is the "best" factor, I don't know (it most likely is not).
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nged
afterwards), and one for the number of survivors from the middle
collection (increased every time objects move to the oldest
generation).
So it seems there are minor difference (such as whether a counter
for the total number of traceable objects is maintained, which you
seem to be suggest
unt? If it counts deallocations,
is it relevant what generation the deallocated object was from?
If so, how do you determine the generation? If not, wouldn't
while 1:
x=[]
trigger a full garbage collection fairly quickly?
Regards,
Martin
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he youngest generation? That
totally defeats the purpose of generational garbage collection.
Also, why would you want to move deleted objects anywhere? Their
storage is reclaimed, and they don't occur in any list of objects.
Regards,
Martin
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as it was mixing problem statement and solution, so that I couldn't
tell what paragraph was about what. English is not my native language,
complicating communication further. Please accept my apologies.
Regards,
Martin
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by "revive cycles". There is
not need to revive any object in a cycle, as all objects are still alive
(or else they wouldn't be garbage).
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de, and then
start breaking cycles.
This could even be done with the current approach to module clearing.
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"revive the cycle" means. You will need to
incref the object for which you call __del__, that's all.
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, and straight-forward)
> Note that the __del__'s themselves may be breaking cycles and
> refcounts will go to 0 - unless you temporarily revive (incref) the
> entire cycle first.
See above - you shouldn't need to.
>> I still don't understand what "revive the c
led, rather than keeping them broken.
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Martin
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caused if it wasn't
a standard library package?
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n, or to omit testing 2to3 in the stdlib altogether,
if that helps.
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> codepoint.
Not in Python - it's a code unit.
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PythonWin will break (and anything else that tries to pass
Unicode strings directly to a Win32 *W function).
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served for UTF-16 only.
I would have to lookup the exact Unicode terminology, but "valid"
is probably not a predicate that they would use.
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; values in the range between U+ and U+10, and Unicode code unit is
> used for 16-bit char values that are code units of the UTF-16 encoding.
So you would like to contribute a function codePointCount to Python's
standard library? Go ahead.
Regards,
Martin
_
> Thanks for any help.
This list (python-dev) is not for getting help, but for providing it.
So if you have patches that you would like to discuss, please go
ahead. As you are seeking help, please use [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(aka news:comp.lang.python) instead.
Regards,
Mar
h-surrogate
and low-surrogate code points.
So codepoint in Terry's message was the right term.
Regards,
Martin
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ed a numeric code point". So clearly, a character encoding form
encodeds code points.
> Thus a utf-8
> code unit sequence (or UTF-32 code unit) that would give a code point in the
> surrogate sections is technically in error.
Sure, but this has nothing to do with Terry
4y5e3w.aspx
On the other hand, people still might try to run Python on older
versions of Solaris, such as Solaris 2.6 (which was released 1997).
I don't know when Solaris' CRT first started to support this.
I'd add a configure test, and, at run-time, raise an exception
if the C library
des a borrowed PyObject* to the underlying object, along
with a PyBuffer_Release procedure/macro.
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Martin
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o provide a patch, but I think a patch
is needed before the last beta. IOW, the issue should become a
release blocker.
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> (I'd also like to improve the labels of the build slaves. What exactly
> is "x86 Red Hat 9 trunk" testing? Trunk of what? What project?)
It seems like you would like to edit the master configuration file.
That can be arranged fairly eas
t; week for 2.6 and 3.0 if I get the ok. If not, I can write it for 2.7
> and 3.1 .
I think it needs to be deferred to the next releases, given that the
beta release already happened.
If you have any spare time, please look into some of the real serious,
release-blocking bug reports
onate a machine, I'd be happy to include it in the Pybots
> farm ASAP.
Please talk to Trent Nelson. He has a Windows machine that he donated
precisely for that kind of activity.
Regards,
Martin
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ht
random arguments
> - if the class is created correctly, call methods with random arguments
I was already wondering how you found out all these things. It's quite
amazing!
Thanks,
Martin
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ssage
is produced in ceval.c, IMPORT_NAME. Use debugging technologies
to trace through the code to find out what went wrong.
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U
anup of the tree
might fix it. To do so, build a non-existent branch through the web ui,
then build the original branch again; this will cause a fresh checkout.
If the error then persists, my guess it's some kind of compiler issue,
which can be investigated only
or compatibility reasons. The encoding of non-ASCII characters
in URLs remains as underspecified as it always was.
Now, with IRIs, the situation is different, but I don't think the patch
claims to implement IRIs (and if so, it perhaps shouldn't change URL
pr
t; The number of 64-bit safeness
> warnings being emitted by the current trunk is also fairly worrying)
Do you have a specific one in mind? The ones truncating size_t/ssize_t
should only matter when you actually do have data larger than 2GiB.
Regards,
Martin
> I just noticed that the bz2lib version was updated to 1.0.5 in December
> of 2007, for security reasons. I suspect it would be good to be sure
> to ship this with 2.6 or 3.0.
Python 2.6b1 shipped with bzip2 1.0.5.
Regards,
Martin
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n the context of the buildbots hanging
in the multiprocessing tests, which I know has only data smaller than
2GiB.
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Martin
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, as the 2.6 code hasn't been merged into
3k. I somewhat doubt that this gets resolved before the release, so
bsddb users might need to skip 3.0.
Regards,
Martin
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her a CST)
directly reflects from the grammar; do
svn log Grammar/Grammar
to find out what exactly was changed.
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Martin
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are transferred onto the value stack by GETITEM()'ing them from
> consts or names, or by GETLOCAL()'ing them using oparg as an offset into
> fastlocals (c.f. LOAD_* instructions).
Or, of course, as the result from some operation or function call, or
load from a global var
parameters, Python should not crash, but it may start to behave in a
nonsensical way.
Of course, it would be possible to move the conversion warning one layer
up, into os.urandom; if the argument is float, raise a warning, and then
truncate.
Regards,
Martin
falls back to not using __index__.
Regards,
Martin
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vert features. If a certain
module is cause of too many serious bugs, it should be dropped from
the release (perhaps not from the source repository - just removed
from all build processes).
Regards,
Martin
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than in English; my stomach turns around when I read a question
that ends with a full stop)
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encode as a long integer.
Regards,
Martin
P.S. Just in case it isn't clear: I would oppose any specific proposal
to add this Ascii85 algorithm to the standard library. It would sound
like we don't have any real problems to solve.
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foo(None)
Now, the second set_foo does a Py_CLEAR on foo, which invokes
Bad.__del__, which invokes a method on obj, which crashes as foo
is NULL - it has not yet been assigned Py_None as expected.
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Martin
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at change, and take all
the blame that it might produce in the coming years
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ent World Wide Web would then, of course,
need to use the IRI library.
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ython. With our
strategy to the POSIX module, we can always defer people to the
system vendor, and they can easily reproduce the behavior with
a C program. (Of course, we also have higher-layer libbraries, were
any bugs are our own).
Regards,
Martin
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> Looks like there's a bit of manual work to do (replacing "try/finally" with
> "with", for example).
Why that? Shouldn't the 2.6 code already use the with statement?
Regards,
Martin
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> Martin> Why that? Shouldn't the 2.6 code already use the with statement?
>
> The csv test code uses try/finally on trunk but with on py3k.
So why doesn't it use with on the trunk?
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Martin
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o anybody committing to the 2.4 branch after that should have expected
that the patches will never get released.
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bug fix release in 2008 (as 2.4.5 was released in March 2008);
instead, the last bug fix release should have been made in November
2007. Nobody (including yourself) stepped forward at that time and
offered to roll a release. 2.4 was release on November 30, 2004.
Regards,
Martin
__
thon release branch - from start to
> end.
I agree with that. Unfortunately, my PEP didn't get much feedback at
that time.
Regards,
Martin
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ches (which will get released for five years).
Of course, I would personally find it fairly confusing to have people
commit patches that are explicitly will not be released, and still
aren't experimental or private-use.
Regards,
Martin
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would
mean that those branches get closed on March 1, 2010. Security
releases will be available until October 1, 2013.
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Martin
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(http://listserv.surfnet.nl/archives/python-crypto.html)
The best place for contributions is probably the pycrypto
patches tracker, at
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pycrypto
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=20937&atid=320937
Regards,
Martin
> Are you having also this issue? Do you think that it should run not *always*?
See bug http://bugs.python.org/issue3556
If no solution is forthcoming quickly, I recommend to remove/disable the
test.
Regards,
Martin
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r each major Unicode version?)
You couldn't use the space savings then, I suppose.
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Martin
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sion of the Unicode
spec; we can then drop 3.2 (and stick with whatever the RFC then
specifies).
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Martin
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> I can tinker a little with this over the weekend, unless Martin tells
> me not to ;-)
Go ahead; I can't work on this at the moment, anyway. I would also be
confident that a mere replacement of 4.1 with 5.1 should be easy, and
I see no reason to keep the 4.1 version.
Perhaps make
as for the sake of a completely unrelated
repository for which even anonymous read access is denied (and remains
so).
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Martin
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. BSDDB (the Sleepycat-then-Oracle implementation) never
was part of Python; this hasn't changed. What *has* changed is that
the bsddb module (i.e. the Python wrapper) is now not part of Python
anymore, either, due to it being maintained separately. This is as if
Tkinter was removed fr
jected
it outright, as I didn't consider that it might be optional and off by
default).
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Martin
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ch as registered extensions.
For example, you don't need python on PATH to start a Python script;
just invoking the .py file will find the Python interpreter from the
registry.
I don't think it is wise to apply Unix solutions to Windows problems.
Regards,
Martin
tab expansion enabled by default it's easy enough.
Same for me. That's why I like Python being installed in the root
directory (also a common complaint - why doesn't it install into
the Programs Files folder?)
Regards,
Martin
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> May be an external program called by the uninstaller can take care
> of this, removing what was added to PATH.
Or a custom action. There are ways to solve this problem - they just
take some effort to implement them.
Regards,
Martin
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d the cases you provide are correct and provide sharing even without
being const.
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Martin
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> But then you don't get to pass arguments to the program,
> get to see the output before the window disappears, etc.
Did you actually try before posting?
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Martin
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of us with sane networking
environments)
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Martin
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