Han-Wen Nienhuys schrieb:
> In response to Martin v Loewis' initial reply we have sent in
> contributor agreements, but nothing else has happened so far.
>
> I was wondering whether there is any way for me to speed up the review
> process.
It may not be what you expec
ABI. That may or may not be a large
> technical challenge, but I think it would be a significant philosophical
> change.
The philosophical change would be that a specific version of that would
be standardized. The "current" version could still evolve in a less
documented way.
>
plicitly to register its sys.exitfunc), but it might break
if other applications still insist on installing a
sys.exitfunc.
What do you think about this approach?
Regards,
Martin
P.S. There is another issue reported about the interpreter
crashing; I haven't been ab
from untrusted users in their
programs are on their own, anyway - since we removed the rexec
module).
Regards,
Martin
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ding` stuff an
> exit function into a module global, and change Py_Finalize() to look
> for that and run it (if present) before invoking call_sys_exitfunc().
Ok, that's what I'll do then.
Yet another alternative would be to have the "daemonic" thread feature
in the thre
for those vendors, *only* security patches
matter. They can justify carrying outdated software
around for compatibility only, but they cannot justify
including it if it has known security bugs.
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at's also "user-screwable", as a user may put something else
into threading._shutdown. To make it non-visible, it has to be
in C, not Python (and even then it might be still visible to
extension modules).
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Alastair Houghton schrieb:
> How about we remove the word "foolish" from the debate?
We should table the debate. If you really want that feature,
write a PEP. You want it, some people are opposed; a PEP is
the procedure to settle the difference.
Re
#1610575 suggests to introduce the 't' code to support the _Bool
type where available, and uses char if it isn't available.
Any objections to adding it?
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time, people will
have local copies of the 2.5 MSI file, and don't redownload if they
install on a new machine.
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Martin
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Terry Reedy schrieb:
> How do the first two months downloads of 2.5.msi compare to 2.4.msi?
It's actually publicly available:
http://www.python.org/webstats/
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Martin
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tics weren't updated correctly
until recently.
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Martin v. Löwis schrieb:
>> Have the ratios changed against past figures (too lazy to look them up now)?
>
> They did, but also because the statistics weren't updated correctly
> until recently.
Qualifying a bit further: the last month that apparently had nearly
corre
with. Mixing CRTs may or may not work, depending
on what precisely the extension module does.
For 2.6, I hope we will switch to VS 2007 (assuming that's released
at that point). Then, the question is whether the Windows SDK will
support VS 2007.
Regards,
Martin
w whether a change is just a structural one, or a substantial
one.
Regards,
Martin
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lly specific to http, and
adding it to urllib would break the abstraction.
In any case, there is no "pipeline" it may be in (except for changes
that have already been committed to the trunk). Something may have
been submitted as a patch or feature request, b
ntribute in the first place
(given that it "works" already either way), but it might have been
a convenience API for the range header, and a parser for the
content-range header. That should go IMO into httplib, so that all
users of httplib get access to it, not just urllib*.
Regards,
Marti
they ought to be implemented
in httplib as well.
If everybody wants to become urllib just a better library to access
http servers, I probably can't do much about it, though.
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Martin
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est, implicit headers
features, something is wrong with the abstractions.
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eed an extended arg, but don't have
space for it.
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Martin
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by everyone hoping to generate or hack bytecodes.
It wouldn't be a strict invariant, but instead, breaking it would mean
that the memory consumption goes up somewhat.
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se classes)
would need to be accessed through qualification. It would also be
counter-intuitive if you find methods in an unqualified manner,
but then can't call them because you didn't give a self argument.
If you don't follow this reasoning, please write a counter-proposal
s
ple think they *have* to use them, and that doing so gives
better code...
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in what Python version)? I'd have to consult the
documentation for either; help(file.seek) gives the numeric values.
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rpreters, this aspect should be
taken into account. Whether there is any chance to add the PEP to 2.x,
I don't know - it needs to be written first.
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ing I wanted someone
> else to do the work.
I was actually going to, for several years now. Please do write the PEP
before making the implementation.
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hould use the PEP 11 procedure: let configure fail
(early) on the system, and then remove support if nobody complains
(in 2.7 and 3k).
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Un
e that any maintainer would watch python-dev in some
> fashion. Is there an official list of maintainers?
Not that I know of. The AtheOS port was contributed through patch
#488073, by Octavian Cerna (tavyc). It seems that the primary
contributor for the BeOS port was Chris Herborth (
Evgeniy Khramtsov schrieb:
> Is there any plans to implement non-blocking timer like a
> threading.Timer() but without thread?
On Unix, you can use signal.alarm.
Regards,
Martin
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What do you think?
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Martin
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include "py/object.h"
Any preferences?
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Martin
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Thomas Wouters schrieb:
> (Only for header
> files that should really be internal, of course, not ones that are
> oft-used outside the core.)
Which are these?
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Martin
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header file, and does Python have any?
I can see why Modules/sre.h is "private": it won't get installed at
all, so users can't include them. For everything in Include, I think
users can, and will, include them directly, unless they g
t): code.h, parsetok.h,
> pyarena.h, longintrepr.h, osdefs.h, pgen.h, node.h
Thomas said that at least code.h must stay where it is.
What is the reason that you want them to be renamed?
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Martin
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ollision as what started this
> thread. It also provides a simple way of demonstrating what's public
> and what is not. It addresses all my complaints. There are only a
> few rules and they are simple.
As specified, above, it is incompatible with the current API. I think
#includ
there is the issue that the framework
includes in OSX magically look for python.framework when searching for
python/foo.h, which they find, so that may get us the wrong version.
Somebody would have to study the details here, first.
Regards,
Martin
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.. I however wondered if there were good reasons for
> module objects for not being published.
I guess it's included in the C file because that's the easiest way to
implement it. AFAICT, it has been that way from the beginning.
Regards,
Martin
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el you are referring to a different issue, unfortunately,
I cannot tell from your post what that issue is.
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Martin
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.x version that *introduces* the new way, as it
is not merely a new API, but a changed API.
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Martin
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ward that doesn't involve something painful,
> so long as 3.0 is going to be the clean break.
There would be if there was some version which already had .items
as an iterator, but still supported .iteritems as well. Let's call
that version 2.99. It would be compatib
scope to identify the return value of items() in that particular
> context.
Why do you think that this would be that certainly possible?
I cannot imagine an efficient implementation.
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Martin
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h
d to just continue maintaining 2.x forever. I have
> yet to see a reason why, other than continued maintenance, 3.0 would be
> a preferable development platform.
Eventually, continued maintenance *will* be a concern to your users.
Maybe not at 3.0, but perhaps
Emerson Clarke schrieb:
> Add this to the Read() method before reading takes place:
If you don't submit it as a patch to sf.net/projects/python, it
is likely to get ignored.
Regards,
Martin
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pecific action to take will become
clearer.
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to as much as
> we can, in Python 2.6 and 2.7, to ease it (and the other transitions.)
> That means the 2to3 tool and warnings in appropriate places, and
> anything else we can do.
I don't think we should do *everything* we can. If 2.6 performance will
suffer significantly t
on that I can imagine an
inefficient implementation. I cannot imagine any reasonable behaviour
of a per-module change of methods on dictionary objects.
> Do I just suffer from having an overactive imagination? Are all of
> these implementation strategies impossible
ompatibility with 3.x, it will return
a method that produces an iterator.
Of course, one might say "don't do that, then".
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Martin
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ans that any module
> built with 2.5 that is using these names will fail to work in 2.5.1.
> No code outside the core *should* be using these names.
I'll look into this. I will create macros in the header file for them,
so that existing source code will continue to co
Deleting b
Here, it creates b first, then a (it's the else case), yet
deletes them in reverse order.
As others have pointed out, the deletion order is the one
indicated by the locals array:
py> f.func_code.co_varnames
('x', 'a', 'b')
Regards,
Ma
le from sys.modules when somebody still has a
reference to the search function. Don't do that, then.
Regards,
Martin
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port encodings
py> encodings.search_function.__module__
'encodings'
It's a string, rather than the module object, precisely to avoid cyclic
references.
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Martin
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y cycle with an object implementing
__del__ will keep loads of modules alive, noncollectable for GC.
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probably has to remain
where it is, and only PyTraceBack_Here should stop using it.
As a consequence, a generator .send() makes exceptions
occur in the current thread, not in the thread where the
generator was created.
What do you think?
Regards,
Martin
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Georg Brandl schrieb:
> Do I miss something here, or is the buildbot hit by spammers now?
It looks like it is. If that continues, we have to disable the web
triggers.
Regards,
Martin
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h
t this isn't a python-dev question, but more
appropriate for comp.lang.python (as it is of the "how do I x with
Python?" kind).
I would use a debug build, and use sys.getobjects to determine all
objects and find leaks.
Regards,
Martin
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plan for signals support in python, so
> what can be done?
I agree it's a bug, and I agree with your proposed analysis. Please
try to come up with a patch (e.g. by putting a while(is_tripped) loop
around the for loop). Also make sure you include test case
r me to review, so I'm unable
to comment whether it fixes the problem under discussion. I feel that
this problem should find a much simpler solution.
Regards,
Martin
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this time
(22:27 +0100)
Can you try again?
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Martin
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y 5.0"
equals 5 or not: if it does, it should hash the same as 5,
if it doesn't, it may or may not hash the same (whatever is
easier to implement).
For 0: hash(+0.0)==hash(-0.0)==hash(0)=hash(0L)=0
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Martin
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atomically? If
it is only cleared if it is set, I see no need to make
the test and the clearing atomic.
Regards,
Martin
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_CallFunctionObjArgs(PyCCP_CreationHook, obj, 0);
> Py_XDECREF(result); if (!result) PyErr_Clear(); PyCCP_CreationHook =
> tmp; } }
I think this is not thread-safe.
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Martin
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any API. For the documented API, there
is certainly a stronger desire to provide backwards compatibility in
the face of changes, but in some cases, it just means that the change
also gets documented.
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However, in this specific
case, I think the chance that that the signal
gets delayed is high, and the case can be easily
implemented to avoid that risk.
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Martin
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anything should be changed.
If introducing extended floating-points would cause trouble to existing
operations, I think extended floating-points should not be introduced
to Python. If all three of you really need them, come up with method
names to e
t formats like Decimal take off.
> Note that it is not a fault in Decimal, but a feature of almost all
> extended floating-points. As I said, I have no answer to it.
It doesn't look like you *need* to give an answer now. I thought
you were proposing
n in the process of developing a
patch, too.
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Martin
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ather than
invoking __ipow__ with a third argument if its not None).
Comments?
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his has undefined behavior. Even if it had, slot_nb_inplace_power
would silently discard its third argument.
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with three arguments
if __ipow__ is defined, else it invokes __pow__ with three
arguments)
The only case I could find where a third argument is non-None
is when the builtin pow() is invoked, which then invokes nb_power
(but not nb_inplace_power) with three arguments.
Rega
exception is unacceptable, I'd rather explicitly ignore
the extra argument, instead of ignoring it implicitly.
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Martin
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= 10
or
x * n *= 10
Also, it would break existing __ipow__ implementations
that only receive two arguments (unless there would be
another __ method introduced).
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r successful creation
> of the socket.
>
> Does anybody else think this is a good idea? (Personally I think this
> should've been done years ago. :-) Shall I check it into the head?
Please also consider #723312, which is more general, but also mo
Greg Ewing schrieb:
>> What could the syntax for that be?
>
> It wouldn't be a syntax, just a function, e.g.
>
>ipow(x, n, 10)
In what way would that be inplace? A function cannot
rebind the variables it gets as param
nb_inplace_power
with the tuple (and __ipow__ if x's class is written in Python).
Whether this gives a TypeError or not depends on the class of x.
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. You are
currently assigned bug #723312 (and have been since 2003-04-17),
which has a patch to change ftplib.
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Martin
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ssigned
to you, please consider unassigning them if you don't plan to work
on them.
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. Of course, he didn't propose it
because he assumed that proposal would be turned down, anyway.
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ism would you like to use, and
on what systems?
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ans
you have to make two commits per AST grammar change: one to change
the grammar, and the other to update the regenerated file.
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d
as-is, for a number of reasons I listed; I didn't mean to imply
that it can never be integrated.
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Guido van Rossum schrieb:
> Is this documented somewhere? It wouldn't hurt if there was a pointer
> to that documentation right next to the line in Python-ast.c that gets
> modified by the regeneration. (I've been wondering about this a few
> times m
completely show up in "svn diff" (when only the number
changes). I don't think that's a problem.
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time stamps, but because the subsequent compile
run will regenerate the file and modify it in the process.
Then, all other developers will find modifications in their tree
that they didn't make.
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Martin v. Löwis schrieb:
> Guido van Rossum schrieb:
>> Is this documented somewhere? It wouldn't hurt if there was a pointer
>> to that documentation right next to the line in Python-ast.c that gets
>> modified by the regeneration. (I've been wondering about this a
ot;. I *personally* object to changes where it is easy
to crash the interpreter, unless there is a clear specification
when this may happen, and there is a systematic way to avoid that
(this is the ctypes clause).
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Martin
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Guido van Rossum schrieb:
> PS Thanks to Ben for excellent summaries of the discussion so far!
I'd like to second this. This is how PEPs ought to work.
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t will just fail. Look at
Tcl's even mechanism for an example that has failed (IMO).
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store the reference
in some global/static variable. builtin_intern will return it to the
caller, which then needs to store it. This was always the case with
intern(); the usage pattern is
foo = intern(foo)
as intern may return a different object (e.g. if the string was
Hrvoje Nikšić schrieb:
> The patch could look like this. If there is interest in this, I can
> produce a complete patch.
I can't see a problem with that (although I do wonder why people create
string subtypes in the first place).
Rega
s on what the end result would be.
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Martin
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r]
> raise AttributeError, attr
And again. Apparently, people favor hasattr over catching
AttributeError. I'm not sure why this is - I would probably
rewrite them all to deal with AttributeError if I use the new
syntax in the first place.
Regards,
Martin
__
7;s easier to parse the second one visually.
Ah, precedence.
It definitly should be a bracketed form, or else people
always wonder what the precedence is, and add parenthesis
anyway just to be on the safe side.
BTW, which of these would be correct
(a).[b]
(a.)[b]
a.[(b
o of
> the "else" suite and then search between those two for the "else"
> statement.
Notice that you cannot restore the original source code, anyway. You
cannot tell whether something was else:if or elif.
I don't understand why you need the line numb
element and attribute names into (but not element content,
which typically isn't likely to be repeated). It starts with a fresh
dictionary before parsing starts, and releases the dictionary when
parsing is done.
Regards,
Martin
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that .[ should be two tokens.
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d state that it has that modified behavior. Of course,
people may object to massive library changes of the nature
"if running in stackless mode, this library routine behaves
differently".
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is for notequal, no special casing is performed
at all (except that knowing that identical strings aren't notequal).
The entire algorithm and optimization works just as fine for
a user-defined interning dictionary (assuming that all
relevant string
ocally, anyway, and then run the package in question on
top of that.
Regards,
Martin
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, it became less maintainable than if it had
taken the liberty to change things.
Of course, then you have two versions to maintain: the in-core
version that nicely integrates, and the out-of-core version,
that has minimal changes. It first takes effort to cr
turn hasattr(self, name)
It's so easy people can include in their code for backwards
compatibility; in Python 2.6, it could be a highly-efficient
builtin (you still pay for the lookup of the name 'attrs',
of course).
Regards,
Martin
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