saying that it shouldn't work in 2.5.x,
because it didn't in 2.5.0. Changing it in 2.6 is fine, along with the
incompatibilities it causes.
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Martin
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all kinds of inspection tools. For example, when __file__ of a
module object changes to be a Unicode string (which it does under the
proposed patch), then these tools break. They currently don't break in
that way because putting arbitrary Unicode strings on sys.path doesn't
work in the first p
st, it may cause people to special-case people for 2.3.6 in
case the release contains some incompatible change that affects
existing applications.
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able to
represent arbitrary file names on Windows might have a bug;
programs that rely on sys.getfilesystemencoding() being able
to encode all elements of sys.path do not (atleast not for
Python 2.5 and earlier).
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has already been published, and there
is no acceptable patch available at this moment. It cannot be added
to 2.5.x as it may reasonably break existing applications.
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need to upgrade all clients, or else you should stay
away from 1.4. Alternatively, you can have different checkouts
for 1.3 and 1.4 clients, of course.
Just in case you didn't know.
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problems with trying to implement that specification
> that such behaviour can't be relied on.
Can you please give one example for each (one get-out clause, and
one problem with trying to implement that).
I fail to see why it isn't desirable t
aks other
> things in very mysterious ways. Been there...
Python should register a pthread_atfork handler then, which clears
the signal mask. Would that not work?
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Thanks for the kind words. While we know in
principle that many users appreciate our work, it is heartening
to actually hear (or read) the praise.
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command line)?
Or can anybody propose a different fix?
4. How should we deal with different values of COMSPEC? Should
this patch only apply for cmd.exe, or should we assume that
other shells are quirk-compatible with cmd.exe in this
respect (or that people stopped setting COMSPEC, anywa
NG
#if defined(__i386__) || defined(__ppc__)
#define SIZEOF_LONG 4
#elif defined(__amd64__) || defined(__ppc64__)
#define SIZEOF_LONG 8
#else
#error unsupported architecture
#endif
Out of curiosity: how do the current universal binaries deal with this
issue?
Regards,
Martin
__
Josiah Carlson schrieb:
> "Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Out of curiosity: how do the current universal binaries deal with this
>> issue?
>
> If I remember correctly, usually you do two completely independant
> compile runs (optionally on t
n PPC64 than on AMD64).
In addition: how does the system chose whether to create a 32-bit
or a 64-bit process if the python binary is fat?
Regards,
Martin
P.S.: for distutils, I think adding special cases would retrieving
pyconfig.h items would be necessary. In addition, I
ted in all necessary libraries on the build machine (somebody
will surely correct me if that's wrong).
Regards,
Martin
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ocessor
cache; the impact of this effect is hard to estimate).
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)
is negative) also on a 32-bit system, with Debian's gcc 4.1.2
(which also isn't released, yet), so it appears that the problem
is already with gcc 4.1.
On my system, adding -fwrapv indeed solves the problem
(tested for abs()). So I added this to the README also.
Regards,
Martin
_
; + if (a < 0 && (unsigned long)x == 0-(unsigned long)x) {
Hmm. Shouldn't this drop 'x' and use 'a' instead? If a is
-sys.maxint-1, -a is already undefined.
Regards,
Martin
P.S. As for finding these problems, I would have hoped that
-ftra
n debug mode.
Can't really check right now, but it might be that this is just the
limitation that a debug obmalloc doesn't work on 64-bit systems.
There is a header at each block with a fixed size of 4 bytes, even
though it should be 8 bytes on 64-bit systems. This header is there
on
hese rules, the current Python code should
be fine, AFAICT.
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Martin
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ept the installer's default directory.
That's very true, but difficult to communicate. Too many people actually
complain about that, and some even bring reasonable arguments (such
as the ACL in c:\ being too permissive for a software installation).
Regards,
Martin
__
Martin Devera schrieb:
> RCU like locking
> Solution I have in mind is similar to RCU. In Python we have quiscent
> state - when a thread returns to main loop of interpreter.
There might be a terminology problem here. RCU is read-copy-update,
right? I fail to see the copy (copy data
Martin Devera schrieb:
> It is based on assumption that an object is typicaly used by single
> thread. You must lock it anyway just for case if another thread steps
> on it. The idea is that each object is "owned" by a thread. Owner can
> use its objects without locking. If
Martin Devera schrieb:
> I measured it. Lock op in futex based linux locking is of the same
> speed as windows critical section and it is about 30 cycles on my
> P4 1.8GHz in uncontented case.
> As explained in already mentioned http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6993
> it seems
Michael Walter schrieb:
> in case noone didn't notice yet: the "Windows MSI Installer" link at
> http://www.python.org/download/releases/2.5/ points to Python 2.4!
Why is this a problem? The link is actually correct: The MSI
documentation is the s
Martin v. Löwis schrieb:
> Michael Walter schrieb:
>> in case noone didn't notice yet: the "Windows MSI Installer" link at
>> http://www.python.org/download/releases/2.5/ points to Python 2.4!
>
> Why is this a problem? The link is actually correct: The
Martin Devera schrieb:
> Just from curiosity, would be a big problem removing refcounting and live
> with garbage collection only ? I'm not sure if some parts of py code
> depends on exact refcnt behaviour (I guess it should not).
Now, this gives a true deja-vu. Python applications
ces: the subnav.yml files are identical
in all these.
Actually, looking more closely, it appears that the "working"
pages have a line
subnav: !fragment subnav.yml
in content.yml; this seems to make a difference. What does that
line mean?
Regards,
Martin
_
ecause I would have to use details.winerror
> instead of e.errno.
Portable code should do
def winerror(exc):
try:
return exc.winerror
except AttributeError: #2.4 and earlier
return exc.errno
and then
try:
do something
except WindowsError, details:
if not winerro
hing users may want to know.
See what I wrote. Users are advised to either not use that compiler,
or add -fwrapv.
Regards,
Martin
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on/python-ast.c and cant be
> imported from PC/config.c.
Why is that a problem? PC/config.c refers to Modules/_typesmodule.c.
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Martin
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c-2.6/Users/buildslave/bb/trunk.psf-g4/build/Modules/itertoolsmodule.o
gcc -bundle -undefined dynamic_lookup
build/temp.macosx-10.3-ppc-2.6/Users/buildslave/bb/trunk.psf-g4/build/Modules/itertoolsmodule.o
-L/usr/local/lib -o build/lib.macosx-10.3-ppc-2.6/itertools.so
So itertools.so is regenerate
(C++ allows restating of typedefs; if C allows it, that should be
> something like):
C also allows this; yet, our advise would be that these three
names get always defined together - if that is followed, having
a single guard macro should suffice. PY_SSIZE_T_M
it likely needs to be maintained separately.
It was written for the current trunk, but hopefully applies
to most recent releases.
Regards,
Martin
Index: c-format.c
===
--- c-format.c (revision 113267)
+++ c-format.c (working copy)
@@ -6
e warning only if the redefinition is not
identical to the original definition (or an object-like macro is
redefined as a function-like macro or vice versa).
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Martin
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, in a way that
would support PyArg_ParseTuple. It's probably easier to replace
PyArg_ParseTuple with something that can be statically checked by any
compiler.
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Martin
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a solution. Fix them one by one, as we
encounter them, and document all work-arounds being made, so we can
take them out when the system disappears (or subsequent releases fixed
the platform bugs).
Doing so requires a good understanding of C and C++, of course.
Regards,
Martin
__
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
> Martin> The problem you have is specific to Solaris, and specific to
> Martin> using GCC on Solaris.
>
> So can we fix this in pyport.h or with suitable Configure script
> machinations? Even though the current patch we're using is
symbols remaining should then
either have the PySQLite prefix, except for init_sqlite3.
In fact, since most operations in Python go through function
pointers, there is typically very little need for extern
functions in a Python extension module, even if that module
consists of multiple C files.
Regards,
ported symbols as they already need to be tracked for Windows
> where symbols are hidden by default (unlike traditional *nix).
Of course, this doesn't help on systems where gcc isn't used. So for
Python itself, we should always look for a solution that works
but I was also wrong. Thanks for pointing that out.
Regards,
Martin
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probably be removed separately. And so on.
When you come to a solution that satisfies your needs,
don't forget to document it somewhere.
Regards,
Martin
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U
lease is made.
Of course, there are some things that people remember and want to see
fixed, but they are pretty arbitrary.
Regards,
Martin
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binaries, but
> externals (for 2.5) still points to 0.9.8.a, which is vulnerable.
If there is any change, it should be to 0.9.7k; we shouldn't switch to
a new "branch" of OpenSSL in micro releases.
However, I'm uncertain whether I
nthony already said so).
Likewise, 2.5. will be maintained until 2.6 is released, and one last
2.5.x release will be made shortly after 2.6.
Regards,
Martin
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ubmit a bug report to sf.net/projects/python.
Notice that Python 2.5 ships with a different Tcl version than 2.4;
using the 2.4 Tix binaries in 2.5 may cause crashes.
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really wrong with the data structures or
algorithms they use.
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Martin
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result
> of a 'calculation' as such:
That's how you can end up with 100 different copies of 0.0. But
apparently, people are creating millions of them, and keep them in
memory simultaneously. Unless the text file *only* consists of floating
point numbers, I wou
ension module, the knowledge about the application domain
is larger, so it may be reasonable to do the caching there. I would
still expect that in the typical application where this is an issue,
there is some kind of larger design bug.
Regards,
Martin
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> accept that this is a recurring pattern and adjust python to be more
> efficient when faced by it? Surely a lot of karma lies that way?
I'm worried about the penalty that this causes in terms of run-time
cost. Also,
fortunate given that it's the most compelling value to cache...
Thanks for pointing that out. I can believe this is the only case
in IEEE-754; I also wonder whether alternative implementations
could cause problems (although I don't really worry too much
about VMS).
Regards,
Martin
_
e impact of a change,
in particular if there is no change in computational complexity. Various
effects tend to balance out each other.
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Martin
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ll fraction of the cost and considerably greater generality.
As Michael Hudson observed, this is difficult to implement, though:
You can't distinguish between -0.0 and +0.0 easily, yet you should.
Regards,
Martin
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be zero and
> both are required to evaluate to False in truth value context?
Ah, you are proposing a semantic change, then: -0.0 will become
unrepresentable, right?
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, and no amount of arguing
can change that.
Regards,
Martin
P.S. For that matter, *any* kind of changes to the singleton nature
of certain immutable values is a change in semantics. It's just that
dropping -0.0 is an *additional* change (on top of the change that
&
ics for the majority of the
machines
b) it is likely that this change won't affect a significant number
of applications (I'm pretty sure someone will notice, though;
someone always notices).
Regards,
Martin
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that somehow, -0.0 got into the file. Currently, the sign
"round-trips"; under the proposed change, it would stop doing so.
Of course, there likely wouldn't be any "real" change to value, as
the sign of 0 is likely of no significance to the application.
Regards,
Martin
ntly on different platforms, and cannot really accept
the explanation that the language didn't guarantee the same
behavior on all systems. This explanation doesn't help them:
they still need to modify the application).
Regards,
Martin
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Alastair Houghton schrieb:
> On 3 Oct 2006, at 17:47, James Y Knight wrote:
>
>> On Oct 3, 2006, at 8:30 AM, Martin v. Löwis wrote:
>>> As Michael Hudson observed, this is difficult to implement, though:
>>> You can't distinguish between -0.0 and +0.0 easily,
ide consensus on some
issue, committers will pick up the consensus; if they don't,
it typically means they disagree.
Regards,
Martin
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on?
That reasoning is irrelevant. If it breaks a few systems, that already
is some systems too many. Python should never crash; and we have no
control over the floating point exception handling in any portable
manner.
Regards,
Martin
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math.atan2(0.0, 0.0).
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to these limits when adding casts.
Helping here would be definitely appreciated.
Regards,
Martin
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t after devenv.com is invoked.
Regards,
Martin
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Tim Peters schrieb:
> [Martin v. Löwis]
>> It's been a while that a failure to build some extension modules doesn't
>> cause the "compile" step to fail; this just happened with the _ssl.pyd
>> module before.
>
> I'm guessing only on the release2
at
compile time.
Of course, if everybody would always recompile all extension modules
for a new Python feature release, those flags weren't necessary.
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Barry Warsaw schrieb:
> Why can't we get buildbot to do most or all of this?
Very easy. Because somebody has to set it up. I estimate
a man month or so before it works.
Regards,
Martin
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Anthony Baxter schrieb:
> Mostly it is easy for me, with the one huge caveat. As far as I know, the Mac
> build is a single command to run for Ronald, and the Doc build similarly for
> Fred. I don't know what Martin has to do for the Windows build.
Actually, for 2.3.x, I wouldn&#x
imes something goes wrong: there might a backport
that doesn't work on Windows, or it might be that I broke
my build environment somehow (which I normally keep across
releases - if I have to start from scratch on a fresh
machine, it takes much longer: a day or so
n by that? That Python 2.5.1 should be compiled with
VC 2005? Something else (if so, what)?
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Martin
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n't mandatory.
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ats what we do at work.
Buildbot could do that easily; in fact, I had to explicitly configure
it to not start from scratch each time, to reduce the network traffic
of the donated machines.
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Alexey Borzenkov schrieb:
> On 10/13/06, "Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Please consider also exposing _wspawnvp, depending on whether path
>> argument is a Unicode object or not. See PEP 277 for guidance.
>> Since this would go into 2.6, s
ink it is unrealistic
to expect that anybody making changes will make them to PCbuild8 as
well if they are relevant; in many cases, no changes are made to the
Windows build process at all. Fortunately, Kristjan has volunteered to
maintain PCbuild8, and that's f
cise problem in producing
them yourself? Why do you need somebody else to do it for you?
Regards,
Martin
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thon release, which, due to
timezones, already significantly suffers from the need to create Windows
binaries).
I'm not sure whether you are requesting these for yourself or for
somebody else. If for somebody else, that somebody else should seriously
consider building Python h
Alexey Borzenkov schrieb:
> On 10/13/06, "Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > Umm... do you mean that spawn*p* on python 2.5 is an absolute no?
>> Yes. No new features can be added to Python 2.5.x; Python 2.5 has
>> already been released.
>
ho would be willing and able to build
a debug release, and distribute that
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tain. Anthony has enough on
> his plate without having to fight the web server too ...
There is always some sort of text that accompanies a release. That has
to be edited to be correct; a machine can't do that.
Regards,
Martin
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release, then?
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d if there was another
release. Of course, people might also get the binaries from ActiveState
should they produce some.
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icant to some users, e.g. in automated install
scenarios. We should attempt not to break this.
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t? It really doesn't
matter to me either way - I just didn't think of it causing problems.
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our patch. Can you please update it?
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o_nlocals,
co_stacksize, co_flags, and co_firstlineno fields from short to long;
unmarshalling from an old version would just crash/read garbage.
So how would you propose to deal with such changes in the future?
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Martin
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ectory, and couldn't before?
Anthony, can you please pronounce?
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o be discussed when somebody
actually proposes such a change.
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3 modules building
> (which I haven't yet, since I didn't get their sources.)
You don't need any additional sources for _msi, and, in fact,
my AMD64 and Itanium installers do provide _msi.pyd binaries.
Regards,
Martin
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string()
print map(ord,r[0:8])
print map(ord,r[8:16])
print map(ord,r[16:24])
gives
[0, 0, 0, 0, 105, 32, 167, 193]
[0, 0, 0, 0, 73, 32, 167, 193]
[0, 0, 0, 0, 65, 32, 167, 193]
It's only one byte that changes, and then that in only two bits (2**3
and 2
the same machine. That would prohibit the two Builders
> from running at the same time. (SlaveLocks wouldn't help here, because as you
> pointed out there is no way to tell the buildmaster that two slaves share a
> host).
Ah, ok.
Regards,
Martin
_
.
Not necessarily. You can also ask, at the buildbot GUI, that a
non-existing branch is build. This should cause the checkouts
to be deleted (and then the build to fail); the next regular
build will check out from scratch.
Regards,
Martin
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ange; contributions to fix this are welcome
(quick-hacked work-arounds are not).
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Martin
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cial Python 2.5.x win64/AMD64 windows installers should still *not*
> contain the ctypes package, but they could install it separately.
I don't really understand. Are you planning to back-port PCbuild changes
also? If so, how should including tho
y/all/x86%20Ubuntu%20Breezy%20trunk/builds/55/step-test/0
As you can see, it indeed re-ran configure, and it also rebuilt the
interpreter. It then did not rebuild any of the extensions except for
pyexpat and elementtree.
As I said, contributions
out one second. When power came back, the machine rebooted,
but, for some reason, the svn apache server did not.
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Martin
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> Shall I close/delete that patch and submit a new patch with a more
> modern description? After all, there's not a lot of activity on the old
> patch page...
Closing the issue and opening a new is fine.
Regards,
Martin
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
> That is, can I change stdin from text to binary this way or is it destined
> to always be in text mode?
You can call _setmode on the file descriptor.
Regards,
Martin
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understand is what the "64-bit windows related ctypes
changes" are. Do they include changes to the PCbuild directory?
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Martin
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find enough supporters.
If your primary goal was to contribute to open source, you
might want to look for other areas of Python: there are plenty
of open bugs ("real bugs" :-), unreviewed patches, etc. For
some time, it is more satisfying to work on these, since
the likelih
t. Though I genuinely didn't expect it to be this brusque.
>
> Martin> I could have told you :-) The "problem" really is that you are
> Martin> suggesting a major, significant change to the implementation of
> Martin> Python, and one that doesn't
ickly after seeing the warning
about incompatible APIs.
Regards,
Martin
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