the RM.
Instead, if the release procedures say that the buildbots must pass the
test, and the tests don't actually pass, the natural consequence is not
to release. Barry has often exercised that approach in the past, and in
many cases, it actually helped in getting people mo
r using one of
the contributed patches, or starting from scratch).
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Martin
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s - I do have all the
compilers available to me that I need to do that.
Indeed, MSDN subscribers can still access older compiler versions
for quite some time after Microsoft stopped otherwise distributing
the product.
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Am 08.08.2010 22:03, schrieb Terry Reedy:
> The usual Friday Summary of Python Trackers Issues did not appear on
> Gmane. Was one generated?
Sending it failed due to a hard disk problem.
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Martin
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> Python's distutils do not work with the SDK compiler, only Visual Studio.
That is not true.
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as it
>> could (or should) be.
>>
> At one point Mike Fletcher published a patch to make distutils use the
> SDK compiler. It would make a lot of sense if it were built in to
> distutils as a further compiler choice.
Please understa
at comes up.
Not sure when Mike Fletcher wrote his code - if it is recent, he
surely must have run into the feature while reading the existing
code base.
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resemblance to an A).
That's why it says "rough" alphabetical order. Putting it into either
place sounds reasonable - we can just expect people to change it forth
and back.
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he alphabet. So the
ö in Chrigström sorts in a different way than the ö in Löwis. If I move
to Sweden, the file would have to change :-)
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Martin
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low the Default Unicode Collation
Element Table (DUCET).
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glish-based Python distribution knows the
> order of the 26 English letters. Please use that order (including for
> decorated versions and tranliterations) instead of various idiosyncratic
> and possibly conflicting nationality-based rules.
So where do you put Γεώργιος Μπο
Am 11.08.2010 00:35, schrieb Alexander Belopolsky:
> On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 6:29 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
> ..
>> So where do you put Γεώργιος Μπουτσιούκης?
>>
>
> or Александр Белопольский for that matter? :-)
If you care about that, feel free to add t
of the
Linux advocacy forums.
A little bit on-topic, I think that Python actually helps to lower
the barrier between users and programmers on Windows.
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> The question is "who will support those folks?" I don't see any
> reason why you or Martin should support MSYS/mingw if you don't want
> to, but please don't put down the folks who ask for it. Just say "no,
> it's not worth it". Or maybe, &q
d, not at least for the
need to provide sources as well.
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Martin
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.org. This will not only help children,
but any user of the language who isn't very good at the English
language.
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to pick
out any specific. Notice that #3871 is really two patch: the original
one (from Roumen), and the one by Руслан, who basically hijacked the issue.
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he -j option to regrtest.
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h a fix might be difficult to implement.
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t; gets updated, but it never sticks in my memory).
If you really *want* to update the FAQ yourself, I recommend you
do a pydotorg checkout _now_.
Ever since I did, I never forgot how to get it - simply because I
just kept the sandbox.
Regards,
Martin
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> I do it every time myself, AFAIK it reduces the workload of people
> that are making sure all pending patches were applied.
Do we really have any such people still?
I thought they have all given up long ago.
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> May I have commit privileges so that I can commit these patches and
> future patches in a similar state?
Please send me your SSH key.
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be fine with the 2.6.6 doc set - will the minor changes
that we can make to it (given that no bug fixes will be made to the
code) really matter?
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7;t overwrite each
other. And so that if you downloaded one of them, you'd still know what
it is that you downloaded afterwards.
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Unsu
2.7 and 3.2: that link is already there.
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, because it couldn't know what encoding the
exception string was in when it printed it).
I believe this is fixed in Python 3, which uses a Unicode string for the
text.
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[Errno 10054] A lÚtez§ kapcsolatot a tßvoli ßllomßs
>>> kÚnyszerÝtette n bezßrta
>>
> Which is to say that the original *really* should be included.
And indeed, the original message *was* included: [Errno 10054]
JGFI, and out comes "An existing connection was forcibly closed by the
r
Am 26.08.2010 01:28, schrieb Adal Chiriliuc:
> And there doesn't seem to be a link to
> download the CHM files (the last I could find on python.org is for
> Python 2.6.2).
Thanks for pointing that out; there is now.
Regards,
Martin
> Regards, and a toast to 2.6.6!
Prost!
Martin
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ly,
each case could be considered, suggesting an alternative code for the
desired effect.
I'll be off the net for the next two weeks most of the time, so
I might not be able to respond quickly.
Anybody interested in advancing that patch, feel free to commit
changes into the branch.
Re
>> This leads me to a question: how do these configure options affect the
>> PEP 384 stable ABI? That PEP is currently silent on the issue, while
>> PEP 3149 appears to implicitly assume that "abi3" completely specifies
>> the ABI.
>
> It's a great qu
arises if you pass FILE* across DLLs which in turn
are linked with different CRTs.
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Martin
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level of
> portability could continue to use the non-ABI FILE * functions, but
> people who do could use Py_fopen/Py_fclose in place of fopen/fclose but
> otherwise work as now.
I don't think this would solve the problem; see above.
Regards,
Martin
__
> This sounds like the issues such a mix can cause are mostly
> theoretical and don't really bother much in practice, so
> PEP 384 on Windows does have a chance :-)
Actually, the CRT issues (FILE* in particular) have been
causing real crashes for many years, for many people.
R
docs.
Yes, and that policy is an ongoing annoyance, one that PEP 384 tries
to remedy.
Only after I wrote the PEP, I learned that it can have uses for Linux
distributions, too.
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Martin
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why we take serious precautions that you never ever do.
For example, distutils will, by default, refuse to use a different
compiler.
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FromWideChar()
> and PyUnicode_AsWideChar().
Ok. I'm fine with excluding Py_UNICODE from the stable ABI. However,
I think in the long run, I guess more support for wchar_t will then
be needed in the API, e.g. more convenient argument parsing.
Regards,
Martin
_
each other.
3. When the PEP recommends that stuff gets installed into pyshared,
why does the patch then not implement this recommendation, but
continues installing files into lib-dynload?
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hen writing
> that PEP :)
I think then that the PEP should better separate what is actually being
specified (and apparently, that's just the name of the shared objects),
from possible use case scenarios.
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Am 07.09.2010 19:46, schrieb M.-A. Lemburg:
> "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
>>> -1 on always using wchar_t as well. Python's default is UCS2 and the
>>> stable ABI should not change that.
>>
>> It's not really Python's default. It is what confi
installation directory.
Is the rephrasing done already?
I still wonder why you suggest /usr/share should be used, when the FHS
says it should be /usr/lib. This keeps confusing me, despite not being
part of the specification.
Regards,
Martin
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Am 07.09.2010 19:48, schrieb M.-A. Lemburg:
> "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
>>
>>> This sounds like the issues such a mix can cause are mostly
>>> theoretical and don't really bother much in practice, so
>>> PEP 384 on Windows does have a chance :-)
o such a location might use
the stable ABI, anyway.
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Martin
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load time rather than at compile time).
It's too late, though: when the module is being created, the code
using the ABI is already running. As I wrote in the issue: the *real*
ABI version is "python3.dll".
Regards,
Martin
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Python 4 keeps that structure)
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Martin
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(which then don't need to bring /usr/lib/python3.3
into existance even though python 3.3 isn't installed).
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e in order to
fix problems, it might be sufficient if only you look at the buildslave
results, and create bug reports whenever you notice a problem.
Regards,
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allows for easy pass-through
from the web server.
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fine with me: I won't use the data myself, either.
However, I fail to see why this should stop me from providing the
data, when there are people requesting this feature over and over
again. I'd like to see some of Python's "consenting adults" attitude
here.
Regards,
Martin
uld actively hinder
adoption of the better replacement.
That's really sad. So people will have to wait a few years to
efficiently implement tools that they could implement today.
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d implement today.
Why a few years?
Because it will take that long until a significant number of
packages will use distutils 2. People still use very old versions
of packaging tools (e.g. the ones that come with Debian); it will
just take time to get the new tools and API adopted.
Regards,
that.
IT WILL BE NOT IN PREFERENCE TO DISTUTILS2.
Regards,
Martin
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stutils2a2
will be out soon).
And I don't mind pushing it, unless that means to deny users service
now based on the promise of offering better service tomorrow.
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elling them that the data
is flawed for various reasons. I object to denying them the data,
and I really dislike having to discard the patch that I already
wrote to implement it.
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I don't understand the rational behind providing flawed data at PyPI.
I am -1 on that.
-1 sounds much better than vetoing it :-) Taking the votes together,
I currently arrive at
Tarek -1
Michael -1 (?)
Jannis -1 (?)
Jim +1
Thomas +1
Any other opinions?
Am 18.09.10 17:49, schrieb P.J. Eby:
At 05:19 PM 9/18/2010 +0200, Martin v. Löwis wrote:
In the specific case of tl.eggdeps, the dependency information is only
used to create printable graphs. If this turns out to be slightly
incorrect, people would notice if they try to use the packages in
Am 18.09.2010 15:27, schrieb Steve Holden:
> On 9/18/2010 9:21 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
>> IT WILL BE NOT IN PREFERENCE TO DISTUTILS2.
>
> No need to shout.
I really felt that this otherwise wouldn't be heard - I tried
to say it a number of times before, and it
> Also could you provide me the master.cfg file (with obfuscated
> passwords) that is used by the Python buildbot master or tell me if it
> is in subversion somewhere?
Attached!
Regards,
Martin
# -*- python -*-
# This is a sample buildmaster config file. It must be installed as
# &#
cases that went that way :-).
Also, I think it would be better to ask the contributor to step back
"on his own" (acknowledging that this isn't really voluntarily), instead
of revoking privileges and then informing about that decision.
Regards,
Martin
___
>> deputed tracker authority/ies. Not everyone has the same idea about how
>> to handle the various fields and processes. Who decides in cases of
>> disagreement?
>
> We discussed this a while back and I don't think we really have a tracker
> BD. Brett and Ma
imply
> as a blog entry...)
Can you please rephrase the question? What's a "tracker-trawler"?
Regards,
Martin
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Am 23.09.2010 11:43, schrieb Tim Golden:
> On 23/09/2010 10:38, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
>>> Let me ask a question which I don't think has been asked in this
>>> thread: are there guidelines for tracker-trawlers? I'm never sure
>>> where to look
fields in the tracker are filled in correctly
Likewise.
Regards,
Martin
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to contribute to Python and start by searching for
> issues at the bug tracker.
Sure. However, on any specific search, many issues come up already.
So people searching for stuff to do will easily find tasks already.
Regards,
Martin
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nybody can write to the Python wiki, it feels not very official.
It's the same reason why people often trust Wikipedia less than a
printed encyclopedia.
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Martin
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.python.org, or MoinMoin, but opposing Wikis as general.
By nature (quick-quick), information is unorganized in a Wiki. This is
what wiki advocates cite as its main feature, and wiki opponents as its
main flaw.
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.jacobmason.us/blog/?p=35
http://bitbucket.org/jacobmason/sphinx-web-support
http://gsoc.jacobmason.us/demo/contents
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Martin
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t when the issue is
going to be closed, anyway. I do believe that much of the information on
closed issues is irrelevant - yet I would oppose to deleting them
entirely from the database.
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tself
> something that requires a strong wiki admin team.
There actually is an admin team, and they actually do set ACLs.
IIUC, this is primarily for spam protection, though.
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Am 24.09.2010 00:39, schrieb Guido van Rossum:
> On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 3:35 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
>>> With an admin team behind it, you can also make more use of ACLs to
>>> flag certain parts of the wiki as "official" by making them only
>&
-public in 2.7.x).
Regards,
Martin
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Am 24.09.2010 23:22, schrieb Daniel Stutzbach:
> On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 4:09 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" <mailto:mar...@v.loewis.de>> wrote:
>
> I think it would be possible to have two versions of
> _PyGC_REFS_UNTRACKED, one being, say, -5.
> _PyGC_R
ed: 2 (+1, namely #4); delta would be 0
IOW, the numbers after +/- match the counts in the lists shown below,
not the delta since last week.
HTH,
Martin
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So how do you like the OpenID login of PyPI, which has a Google,
MyOpenID and Launchpad icon, which users need to click on to create
in account or login?
The ultra geeks demanded and got a separate page where they
can enter long URLs.
Regards,
Martin
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ints the numbers I put into parentheses (+2, +1),
and they do *not* sum up to +1. The numbers I posted as "delta would
be" are not currently included in the report.
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wiki.python.org/>, and FTR, it has annoyed me as well.
So how would you propose to resolve this? Keep in mind that existing
links need to continue to work.
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Martin
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ry",
which I think is anatoly's way of saying "it's not a bug
report".
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Martin
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> Redirect wiki.python.org to the Python wiki front page, and put the Jython
> wiki somewhere on its own (whether it's wiki.jython.org or not).
But that can't work: then off-site links into either wiki break.
Regards,
Martin
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Am 26.09.2010 00:48, schrieb Georg Brandl:
> Am 26.09.2010 00:16, schrieb "Martin v. Löwis":
>>> Redirect wiki.python.org to the Python wiki front page, and put the Jython
>>> wiki somewhere on its own (whether it's wiki.jython.org or not).
>>
>&g
ularly puzzles people some of the existing WSGI servers are
now incompatible to the PEP, when they still were compatible last
week.
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Martin
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Unsubsc
rts being applied to the problem
> it's always to know whether you are searching for the right
> keywords.
The Python bug tracker has only 5 keywords at the moment,
which all have a straight-forward meaning. Adding "performance"
and "resource usage" wou
quot;ultra geek" category (which I
seriously don't mean as an offense).
I've learned that OpenID really is a mystery even to the fairly
technical usership of PyPI. As an anecdote, a user was puzzled that,
after registering the Google OpenID, all you
tags that cover only one or a few files).
Regards,
Martin
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Am 26.09.2010 13:58, schrieb Nick Coghlan:
> On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 8:16 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
>> But that can't work: then off-site links into either wiki break.
>
> Georg isn't suggesting a general structural change, just a change to
> ha
lly) redirect from wiki.jython.org to wiki.python.org/jython
> -- or --
> make wiki.jython.org the canonical URI for the Jython wiki and redirect
> from old /jython URIs there.
I've asked Frank Wierzbicki which one he prefers.
Regards,
Martin
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aring
> it final is reasonable.
I'm still with Guido here: I'd accept PEP 333 as final in the state it
had last week, give PJE's edits a new PEP number, and accept that as
final right away also.
Regards,
Martin
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EP which includes
> PJE's corrections. I'm not going to approve Final status for a
> history-rewrite of PEP 333.
+1
Martin
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names have to be changed, but also all
software doing automatic processing of tag names will have to be updated
(in addition to being ported to Mercurial, which is necessary either
way).
But then, if somebody volunteers to make these changes, I'm -0 to
the renaming (I slightly pref
ould have
>> to change to check both states, and likewise the debug assert in
>> visit_reachable().
>
> Given the intent is to restore the 2.6 state, perhaps it is the
> "UNTRACK_ALLOW_RETRACK" optimisation that should get the new special
> value? O
Am 26.09.2010 20:31, schrieb Terry Reedy:
> On 9/26/2010 12:54 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
>
>> But then, if somebody volunteers to make these changes, I'm -0 to
>> the renaming (I slightly prefer calling even future release tags rXYZ).
>
> Except that r31
> No, Martin really meant "not possible": once basic auth is started,
> the browser prompts for username and password and you are in basic-auth
> land thereafter; the web server has *no way* to tell the browser to
> *stop* using basic auth.
Yes, but Scott proposed that Open
ts/post-commit-svnup.py", line
139, in main
cmd("make pep-.txt")
File "/data/website-build/build/scripts/post-commit-svnup.py", line
35, in cmd
raise RuntimeError, '%s failed w/ exit code %d' % (command, err)
RuntimeError: make pep-.txt failed w
ps over
pep-.txt. However, if it's really important that the fields
in a PEP are in a certain order (why is that important?), then
I guess PEP 0 should really comply with its own specification :-)
Regards,
Martin
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ild fails, the
html file will still have an old time stamp.
So I'm unsure why you thought you needed to modify some of the files.
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Martin
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the error messages that got generated.
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Martin
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into it, and the community doesn't really
get a voice in deciding on it. It's bad for quality (as I think you
also point out) if the author of a PEP is also the one who pronounces
on it.
Regards,
Martin
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tored on disks, or else
disks should stop being byte-oriented.
Let's go the Smalltalk way - they store all source code in the image,
no need to deal with perversities like files anymore.
Regards,
Martin
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inal source is
fairly safe.
Regards,
Martin
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e effort to write them is also reduced :-)
Regards,
Martin
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7;t know how
to get roundup to post to Rietveld, "anonymously", so to speak.
So perhaps we should just run our own Rietveld instance next to Roundup.
Regards,
Martin
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