27;m tempted to call this Fraction behaviour a bug, but maybe it arises
from the numeric integration themes of PEP 3141. Any ideas?
Mark
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have Fraction+float-->float
> occurring without any exceptions or warnings, and nothing
> bad has happened as a result.
I agree with this; I'd be happy to avoid the control knobs.
Mark
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ther is necessary, because Python doesn't actually use == as the
equivalence relation for containment testing: the actual equivalence
relation is: x equivalent to y iff id(x) == id(y) or x == y. This
restores the missing reflexivity (besides being a useful
optimization).
Mark
_
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:36 PM, Alexander Belopolsky
wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 6:31 PM, Mark Dickinson wrote:
> ..
>> Neither is necessary, because Python doesn't actually use == as the
>> equivalence relation for containment testing: the actual equival
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:52 PM, Alexander Belopolsky
wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 6:47 PM, Mark Dickinson wrote:
> ..
>> There's no ideal solution here; IMO, the compromise that currently
>> exists is an acceptable one.
>
> I don't see a compromise.
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Alexander Belopolsky
wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 7:02 PM, Mark Dickinson wrote:
> ..
>>
>> So if I understand correctly, you propose that float('nan') ==
>> float('nan') return True. Would you also suggest
On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> Mark Dickinson wrote:
>> Here's an interesting recent blog post on this subject, from the
>> creator of Eiffel:
>>
>> http://bertrandmeyer.com/2010/02/06/reflexivity-and-other-pillars-of-civilization/
>
;help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from decimal import *
>>> getcontext().traps[InvalidOperation] = 0
>>> x, y = Decimal('nan'), Decimal('nan')
>>> id(x), id(y)
(47309953516000, 4
e, but they're not relevant to IEEE 754 floating point. There's
a case for using a floating-point model with a single infinity,
especially for those who care more about algebraic functions
(polynomials, rational functions) than transcendental ones; however,
IEEE 754 doesn't make
og post that was linked to up-thread.
Mark
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about this: standard 64-bit binary IEEE 754 doubles
allow for 2**53-2 different nans (2**52-2 signaling nans, 2**52 quiet
nans): anything with bit pattern (msb to lsb)
x111 xxxx xxxx
is an infinity or a nan, and there are only 2 infinities.
e that
information in the payload is preserved. Python doesn't bother, for
floats (though it does for decimal).
Mark
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On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 2:42 PM, Mark Dickinson wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 2:26 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>> This sounds a bit sophistic, if the (Python) user doesn't have access to
>> the payload anyway.
>
> Well, you can get at the payload using the struct mo
On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 3:01 PM, Curt Hagenlocher wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 7:54 AM, Mark Dickinson wrote:
>>
>> Hmm. I take it back. I was being confused by the fact that sqrt(nan)
>> returns a nan with a new identity; but it does apparently preserve
>> the
On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> Mark Dickinson wrote:
>> On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>>> Jesus Cea wrote:
>>>> But IEEE 754 was created by pretty clever guys and sure they had a
>>>> reason for define t
On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 1:15 AM, Jeffrey Yasskin wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 2:09 PM, Mark Dickinson wrote:
>> Slight change of topic. I've been implementing the extra comparisons
>> required for the Decimal type and found an anomaly while testing.
>> Currently
be possible to produce
nans deliberately when necessary, e.g., by directly calling
float('nan').
Python also needs to be able to handle floating-point data generated
from other sources; for this alone it should be at least able to read
and write infinities and nans.
Mark
On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 12:59 AM, Michael Foord
wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> A user has suggested an optional argument to
> unittest.TestCase.assertAlmostEqual for specifying a maximum difference
> between the expected and actual values, instead of using round
this (for both Fraction and
Decimal) seems to be that the result of Decimal(1.1) or Fraction(1.1)
could be confusing. But it's an immediate, explicit confusion, which
can be quickly resolved by pointing the confusee to the section on
floating-point in the a
opped http://www.python.org/dev/buildbot/builders/sparc solaris10 gcc
> 3.x/builds/558
> and a pending build vanished (I'm certain that I used 'stop build' and not
> 'cancel all').
Don't know about this one.
Mark
org/dev/buildbot/builders/x86%20FreeBSD%20trunk/builds/208/steps/compile/logs/stdio
Mark
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ance. So I can't see CPython changing here. I'm not sure
whether other implementations should be required to follow suit,
though---maybe this should be regarded as an implementation-defined
detail?
Mark
[1]
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/38987/how-can-i-merge-two-python-dictionari
03 (the moratorium PEP)? If not, then deprecation
presumably has to wait for 3.3.
Mark
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On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 3:57 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Mark Dickinson gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> Okay; I'll open an issue for deprecation in 3.2 and removal in 3.3.
>>
>> Can this sneak in under the 'incorrect language semantics' exemption
>&g
re failing on the various buildbots.
> bbreport requires Python trunk (2.7) and color output only works on UNIX/BSD
> OS (ie. not Windows).
Does it really need trunk? I've been running it under 2.6 without
problems, but I probably haven
/pipermail/python-dev/2010-February/097458.html
> Python 2.7? If not, given that we're into beta, I don't think we can do it
> now, so I would suggest updating the PEP.
Agreed. There's also the question of whether deprecation warnings or
-3 warnings should
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 2:56 PM, Mark Dickinson wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 2:40 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
>> While talking about Python 2.6 -> 2.7 transitions, the subject of relative
>> and
>> absolute imports has come up. PEP 328 states that absolute imports will
by this would be only (C code)
> indentation, which could be fixed later.
That's not foolproof, though: there are lots of sections of code that
will only get compiled on certain platforms, or with certain configure
options, etc.
Mark
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ended behavior? If so, I'd like to propose a proper multiset
> implementation for the standard library (preferably called "Multiset"; should
> I create a PEP?).
Feel free! The proposal should probably go to python-list or
python-ideas rather
than here, though.
S
On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 10:18 PM, Mark Dickinson wrote:
> See also this recent thread on python-list, and in particular the messages
> from Raymond Hettinger in that thread:
>
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2010-March/thread.html
Sorry, bad thread link.
COMPLETED; and similarly
ONE_EXCEPTION?
I think it would be helpful to clarify whether the timout value (which
you specify as being in seconds) can meaningfully accept a float, e.g.,
0.5?
Anyway, it looks like it will be a really nice addition to the s
mpare:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/executor
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/executer
However, as I mentioned in the first place I didn't expect any change of
this since Java uses the first spelling.
[snip]
--
Mark Summerfield, Qtrac Ltd, www.qtrac.eu
C++,
;
3 0 LOAD_GLOBAL 0 (y)
3 RETURN_VALUE
This is a long way from my area of expertise (I'm commenting here
because it was me who sent Colin here in the first place), and it's
not clear to me whether this is a bug, and if it is a bug, how it
could be resol
patch.
A bug without a patch would also be worthwhile but would almost
certainly cause it to be pushed back to a future 3.x version...
Cheers,
Mark
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many thousands, given that there are people
such as myself who use it indirectly, in my case via matplotlib. Note
that I am aware that the numpy Python 3 support is very close to release.
Kindest regards.
Mark Lawrence.
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Py
10-ton wei
Please raise a new issue, the weight should be 16 ton to conform to
Python standards.
Cheers.
Mark Lawrence.
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t raising the corresponding exceptions until
the end of the block; obviously this idea applies equally well to
functions as to blocks. It's one of the recommended exception
handling modes from section 8 of IEEE 754-2008.
Mark
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for the "Demo/classes" subdir.
Bagsy the Demo/parser subdirectory. Fixing up unparse.py looks like
it could be fun.
Mark
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thought.
For one thing, Brett's change has the result that --with-pydebug
builds end up being built with -O2 instead of -O0, which can make
debugging (e.g., with gdb) somewhat awkward.
Mark
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and restoring CFLAGS across AC_PROG_CC was attempted in
http://bugs.python.org/issue8211 . It turned out that it broke OS X
universal builds.
I'm not sure I understand the importance of allowing AC_PROG_CC to set
CFLAGS (if CFLAGS is undefined at the point of the AC_PROG_CC); can
someone giv
On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 9:37 PM, Jeffrey Yasskin wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 1:04 PM, Mark Dickinson wrote:
>> I think saving and restoring CFLAGS across AC_PROG_CC was attempted in
>> http://bugs.python.org/issue8211 . It turned out that it broke OS X
>> universal b
On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 12:38 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>> On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 13:37, Jeffrey Yasskin wrote:
>>> On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 1:04 PM, Mark Dickinson wrote:
>>>> I'm not sure I understand the importance of allowing AC_PROG_CC to set
>>>>
s -g as option ?
I don't. It could easily be tested for, though. Alternatively,
setting an empty CFLAGS to '-g' could be done just for gcc, since this
is the only compiler for which AC_PROG_CC adds -O2.
Mark
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On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 4:28 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> Mark Dickinson wrote:
>> On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 3:04 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>>> Why do you think that the default -O2 is unwanted
>>
>> Because it can cause debug builds of Python to be built with
>
> 3 SLICE+2
> 4 <39>
> 5 <49>
> 6 <39>
Whoa. That's very peculiar looking bytecode. Is dis.dis behaving as
it should here?
BTW, I think you want 'raise TypeError', not 'raise TypeError()'.
Mark
On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 8:22 AM, Mark Dickinson wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 7:55 AM, Craig Citro wrote:
>>
>>>>> dis.dis("raise TypeError()")
>> 0 <114> 26977
>> 3 <115> 8293
>>
s is happy to interpret byte
strings (i.e., strings in 2.x, bytes in 3.x) as direct representations
of Python bytecode.
There's also an open feature request[1] to allow text strings as input
in py3k, doing an automatic compile before passing the result to
dis.dis.
Mark
[1]
some VM, and I'd bet that these two compile
> to different bytecodes on any of them, but that doesn't preclude
> another implementation from making a different choice there.
Agreed.
Mark
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rity vulnerability in the audioop
module. (CVE-2010-2089). It's got a reviewed patch, and is ready to
be committed, but if you're not comfortable with fixing it this late
then that's completely understandable.
Mark
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k a few of the people who
>>>> made it possible:
>>>
>>> And not forgetting Benjamin himself for managing the whole thing!
>>
>> +1. Thanks a lot for your hard work
>
> Seriously Benjamin, you've done a great job.
+1. A fantastic job.
Mark
_
sn't seem to be any of the usual
'make' output I'd associate with the module-building stage in the
build log at:
http://coverage.livinglogic.de/buildlog.txt
For example, I'd expect to see the string 'mathmodule' somewhere in that output.
Mark
_
the latter was deliberate or an
oversight. And if an oversight, is it worth fixing after the
moratorium expires? (See also http://bugs.python.org/issue2009.)
Mark
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;, line 1
SyntaxError: named arguments must follow bare *
So it probably doesn't matter much whether (3) is permitted by the
grammar or not.
--
Mark
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(My usage
is purely of the interactive shell, I never use IDLE for editing.)
--
Mark Summerfield, Qtrac Ltd, www.qtrac.eu
C++, Python, Qt, PyQt - training and consultancy
"Programming in Python 3" - ISBN 0321680561
http://www.qtrac.eu/py3book.html
__
them commit privileges? IDLE development has often been
done by people who aren't otherwise contributing to the core, and we
surely should trust those folks with commit privileges.
Can I take a really big liberty and volunteer Terry Reedy for the job.
Kindest regards.
Mark Lawrence.
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ne says anything, I have been a former MBCS and
CEng and only gave up cos I couldn't afford the annual fees cos of my
health.
Kindest regards.
Mark Lawrence
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hell can't we get on with it? Or would
the triage team as it stands object cos they'll be put out of a job? :)
Kindest regards.
Mark Lawrence.
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or assigning bugs, I've been told to use the maintainer.rst list, so
either the list is wrong, or I've had finger problems. If it's the
latter I again say sorry.
Kindest regards.
Mark Lawrence
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27;ve been working from this:-
http://svn.python.org/view/*checkout*/python/branches/py3k/Misc/maintainers.rst
It strikes me as being so sadly outdated that it's getting less than
useless, or I assume that it's the same old case of not enough
volunteers? Why did I
only BDFL? :)
I'd also emphasize that I am exactly as far as I stated on this: I'm
mulling it over and asking for feedback. If it turns out that there
are other things that python-dev feels are more necessary but
similarly unglamorous, then I'll think about doing that instead.
Also
On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 1:22 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> +1 for fixing it from me, unless any of the other implementations object.
>
> @Mark: my comment on the tracker issue had an implied "...unless you
> really want to" on the end :)
Thanks! Patch at http://bugs.pyth
re used, rather than PyNumber_Long.
It shouldn't be possible to pass a Decimal instance to something expecting an
integer argument.
Mark
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On 14/07/2010 09:10, Georg Brandl wrote:
Am 12.07.2010 00:51, schrieb Mark Lawrence:
I have been attempting to fill this hole and have been faced with
animosity from people who "hang out" on the python-dev IRC channel. I
thought it was a complete and utter waste of space, so I do
reenshots
Michael Foord
regards
Steve
IIRC Terry Reedy is also interested in moving IDLE forward.
Some help will certainly be needed to work on the 3 high, 80 normal and
13 low priority issues that are open against IDLE on the issue tracker.
Kindest regards.
Mark Lawrence.
__
On 17/07/2010 22:57, Terry Reedy wrote:
On 7/17/2010 8:41 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
IIRC Terry Reedy is also interested in moving IDLE forward.
Interested, yes. But until either a) I can commit patches, or b) there
is someone who will respond to commit review recommendations with "No,
he
On 18/07/2010 15:34, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
Hello Mark,
On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 00:45:09 +0100
Mark Lawrence wrote:
On 17/07/2010 22:57, Terry Reedy wrote:
On 7/17/2010 8:41 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
IIRC Terry Reedy is also interested in moving IDLE forward.
Interested, yes. But until either
On 18/07/2010 18:46, Alexander Belopolsky wrote:
On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 7:45 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
On 17/07/2010 22:57, Terry Reedy wrote:
..
I am certainly reluctant to recruit others to help, as I did for #9222,
if there will be no action indefinitely.
This is standard Python
On 18/07/2010 22:24, Jesse Noller wrote:
On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 5:22 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 4:43 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
I'm extremely offended by your comments. I'll just back off and let the
number of outstanding bugs grow and grow and grow, until su
;meta-tracker" myself until a couple of months ago.)
Is this the same login as for the issue tracker or is a new one needed?
I also suspect that subsections for Extension Modules would be extremely
useful for our C developers, thoughts anybody?
Cheers.
Mark Lawrence.
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I believe that Pat Campbell is responsible for handling contributor
agreements. I'm trying to find out if we have one from Stuart Sheldon.
Could someone in the know please forward this to Pat, then we'll be
able to move these issues.
TIA.
Mar
few orphans, allowing for the fact that you might get told
off for creating noise or for offending devs who don't like being
reminded of outstanding issues? Still, what's nine years to someone
who's waiting for a bug fix?
Kindest regards.
Mark Lawrence.
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Is there any money to pay for the forthcoming 10th birthday party for
this issue? Is the OP still alive?
Kindest regards.
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On 24/07/2010 00:09, Paul Moore wrote:
On 23 July 2010 23:26, Mark Lawrence wrote:
Is there any money to pay for the forthcoming 10th birthday party for this
issue? Is the OP still alive?
I'm not sure the sarcasm helps much. What do you suggest should be
done with the request? Nobod
On 23/07/2010 23:26, Mark Lawrence wrote:
Is there any money to pay for the forthcoming 10th birthday party for
this issue? Is the OP still alive?
Kindest regards.
Mark Lawrence.
Hi all,
I admit that when I sent this off last night, I felt rather better after
for having let off a bit of
7;m
lucky get a coloured output in parallel highlighting removals, additions
and conflicts. If I'm unlucky, get the message "The patch seems
outdated". Is this what you're asking for? Can this be (simply)
implemented on the issue tracker?
5]
>>> print(l[0], l[1], l[2])
0. 0.2 0.142857142857
Any thoughts or comments on this?
There's a working patch at http://bugs.python.org/issue9337
Mark
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On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 8:16 PM, Raymond Hettinger
wrote:
>
> On Jul 29, 2010, at 11:47 AM, Mark Dickinson wrote:
>
>> Now that we've got the short float repr in Python, there's less value
>> in having float.__str__ truncate to 12 significant digits (as it
>>
possible to get some code in place whereby if there is no
response to the initial post, this could be flagged up after (say) 24
hours? Surely any response back to the OP is better than a complete
wall of silence?
Kindest regards.
Mark Lawrence
On 01/08/2010 02:00, Brian Curtin wrote:
On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 19:48, Mark Lawrencewrote:
Hi all,
I have been wading through outstanding issues today and have noticed that
there are several where there has been no response at all to the initial
post. Failing that, the only response has
: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux)
iEYEARECAAYFAkxVQJsACgkQN9GcIYhpnLBxIgCcCiVu/QUkFf0bYM2Vmi8St3mZ
2N4An04q36lr47OA+bslqG/4Zj7ZwVOX
=iL8N
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
If I had things my way I would immediately award you a Blue Peter Gold
Badge. [1]
Kindest regards.
Mark Lawrence.
[1] Blue Peter
en the OP has shown no interest in
moving the issue despite being asked to do so.
Just me tuppence worth.
Mark Lawrence.
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will drive
contributors away. That's not the way to increase manpower.
- Ralf
+1
Mark Lawrence.
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, given that this is my first post: Hi everyone, my name's Mark
Smith. I'm a Python contractor based in Edinburgh, and my nick on IRC is
juD2k (for strange, yet dull historical reasons) :-)
--Mark
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ne bumping the Python versions up five years after the issue was
raised.
Fly back at me if you like. I don't care about me. I don't care about
you. I do care about Python.
Kindest regards.
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ompletely disagree.
Please see my other post.
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On 03/08/2010 00:24, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
On Tue, 03 Aug 2010 00:00:46 +0100
Mark Lawrence wrote:
Fly back at me if you like. I don't care about me. I don't care about
you. I do care about Python.
Well, you should care about people. Free software is as much as about
building
d - I don't recall seeing anything recently on python-dev which would
prompt me to take a look.
Visiting http://www.python.org/dev/buildbot/2.6/ shows a single Windows
buildbot that seems to have been green for the last few builds - am I
looking in the wrong pla
cently added some text to the floating-point section of the 2.7
tutorial to help explain these round problems.
> I don‘t see this mentioned in the release notes and was initially a bit
> puzzled by it.
True; I don't see it in the whatsnew document eith
2010/8/7 Mark Dickinson :
> 2010/8/7 Kristján Valur Jónsson :
>> Hi there.
>> [...]
>> But it appears that the builtin round() method also changed. Whereas I see
>> the changing of floating point representation in string formatting as not
>> being very serious
dd my own custom search for
that if I want it. But I can't help feeling that non-registered users
might miss this.
Mark
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On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 4:09 PM, Ezio Melotti wrote:
> On 11/08/2010 17.59, Mark Dickinson wrote:
>> One niggle: we seem to have lost the simple 'Open Issues' search
>> under 'Summaries' on the left-hand side of the page.
>
> I was expecting some
on needed'? That would
seem like a more useful notion.
Mark
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sive).
IOW, it's similar to random.randrange in the stdlib. In contrast,
random.randint *includes* both endpoints. It's perhaps unfortunate
that random.randint and pylab.randint use different conventions, but
it's not a bug.
Mark
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Suffering from dead parrot syndrome? Kiss of life please :)
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Mark Lawrence.
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ould be able to
leverage this. It also assumes that people open files before handing
them to Python, but otherwise don't use that file - it would be a
slippery-slope to wind up with Py_fread etc.
Mark
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gt;>> x.max(y), x.min(y)
(Decimal('2'), Decimal('2.0'))
But:
>>> max(x, y), min(x, y)
(Decimal('2'), Decimal('2'))
Can you give examples of code that relies on max and min returning the
first among equals?
Mark
_
lso creates
> a new Decimal object for the return value, so I can't use id() to
> check which one of identical elements it returns.
This bit surprises me. I honestly thought I'd fixed it up so that
max(x, y) actually returned one of x and y (and min(x, y) returned the
other). Oh well.
Mark
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in the first.
Yes, you're right; that would make more sense than the other way around.
Mark
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On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 10:51 PM, Mark Dickinson wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Jeffrey Yasskin wrote:
>> It's ignoring the order of the arguments. It also creates
>> a new Decimal object for the return value, so I can't use id() to
>> check which one o
On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 11:00 PM, Mark Dickinson wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 10:51 PM, Mark Dickinson wrote:
>> On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Jeffrey Yasskin wrote:
>>> It's ignoring the order of the arguments. It also creates
>>> a new Decimal object for
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