x27;t sound strong enough to change a
> programming language's grammar.
>
> While I promise you I will remain -1 on the proposal simply because it
> doesn't serve any programmer's goals, you've piqued my curiosity --
> can you give an example of what your t
your
test values. That was when I found out that MySQL (5.0.41, anyway)
doesn't implement the INT() function. What was I saying about standards?
regards
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rning a value of the same type as the input? int(), being a
call to a type, should never return a value of another type.
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_
ere you have it.
>
"""
Python is TIOBE's Language of the Year for 2007
Python moves up from 8 to 6 in TIOBE's list of popular programming languages
Published: Fri, 18 Jan 2008, 10:30 -0500
"""
From http://python.org/, with a link to th
output.
>> Writing to stdin would be wrong, since it's usually read-only, even
>> when connected to a terminal.
>
> Nowadays, it often is writable I've found, but we still shouldn't assume that.
>
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his thread could be truncated. It's got me going round and
round. I'm completely floored, and will doubtless end up barking mad -
you know, like a ceil.
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ts lack attributions for the quotes.
I see from your headers you have, at least some of the time, been
posting via gmane using "mirapoint webmail direct", whatever that is.
Perhaps that's the problem?
sticking-with-t'bird-despite-its-f
classes were
moved into the background.
A brief scan of the 2.4 library (the nearest to hand) shows no uses of
int() without an argument in the top level modules. There's clearly no
point calling int() with a literal integer argument, so its uses for
conversion clearly dominate its use as a p
at's a low S/N
ratio. Even without the digital signature overhead it is still 89
characters from a total of 648 ... it's quite possible that's why his
messages are being misinterpreted.
regards
Steve
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;s good to see that the whole burden no longer falls on Tim
and Martin.
Does VS2008 (Express) coexist peacefully with VS2005, which I need to
retain for certain client projects?
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Steve
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o be a temporary) fix by
deleting files. Looks like we need to be a little more aggressive with
that policy until the replacement machine (due int he next month or two)
arrives.
Or perhaps we should just add a new disk immediately and relocate some
stuff?
regards
Steve
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Aahz wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 11, 2008, Steve Holden wrote:
>> Douglas Napoleone wrote:
>>> Not sure if this is effecting the core svn repository or not, but the
>>> conference software (also hosted at svn.python.org) is reporting that
>>> the disk is full:
>>
27;Full', 'Queue', 'PriorityQueue', 'LifoQueue']
>>
>> I like the second one better.
>>
>>
>> Raymond
>> ___
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>> Python-Dev@python.org
>&g
e goals here (discussion is ongoing). But I hope
> that the rest of the changes are uncontroversial enough to merit
> consideration for possible inclusion in 2.6/3.0.
>
> Thoughts?
>
Only one: if this stunning plethora of improvements is likely to benefit
by you and Christian having acc
r to be "Accepted", "Someday/Maybe", "Design
decision needed", "Ready for checkin" and "Unreviewed". OK. maybe
"triage" wasn't such a good name for for a four-state condition, but it
serves a useful purpose and helps people understa
because nobody had time to pay them any attention in six months -
nor bugs neither, come to that.
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Virgil Dupras wrote:
> On 2/18/08, Steve Holden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I'm not sure we should be throwing RFE's away with such casual abandon
>> just because nobody had time to pay them any attention in six months -
>> nor bugs neither, come to tha
, May 18 2007, 16:56:43)
[GCC 3.4.4 (cygming special, gdc 0.12, using dmd 0.125)] on cygwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> def eggs((a, )=2.1):
... pass
...
>>>
Oops. 'def eggs((a, )=(2.1,
Steve Holden wrote:
[...]
> The one that surprised me was the legality of
>
> def eggs((a, )=c):
> pass
>
> That just seems like unpacking-abuse to me.
>
Needless to say, a call that tries to *use* the default value fails
horribly, as the parameter form doe
t; and fixed for a bug report.
>
That sounds eminently sensible. So sensible there should be
documentation that tells us to do that. Drat it, where's Brett Cannon
when you need him? :-)
regards
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#x27;t really see
> why the necessity of b'' should be seen as opening the flood gates
> to backport everything without regard to whether it makes Py2.6 better.
>
It certainly doesn't seem to have the same urgency for cases where 2to3
can unambiguously do
r team (not necessarily all committers) could help us improve
quality and reduce the issue count. Deleting issues purely on grounds of
age is simply throwing away useful information to reduce a numeric
metric that doesn't really relate directly to quality, and quality
assurance is the real poin
y seen the phrase 'works for me' to mean agreement of a
>> proposed action of some sort.
>>
>> Maybe something along the lines of 'can not reproduce' would be better?
>
> I have to agree with Ron. I honestly thought "works for m
u can hold off from committing to
> that branch for a little while longer, that would be appreciated. I
> will cut 3.0a3 tomorrow (Saturday) as early as possible.
>
> time-to-start-drinking-ly y'rs,
Barry:
If you can document the web stuff you have to do I will formalize i
to their inappropriate
nature by our closeness to and familiarity with them, and I think a
major effort to revise their structure (and to a lesser degree their
content) could pay itself back many times over in increased user
friendliness.
Georg's recen
repeat the same material in
different contexts (hopefully by including some common documentation
source rather than laborious and error-prone copy-and-paste).
Document things where people expect to find them. (Now *there's* a
usability study screaming to be done ... and SoC is coming up).
reg
tool chain like Mingw and one with the
latest and greatest MS production line. Unfortunately the problem seems
to be developer effort. For a long time only Martin and Tim were serious
about the Windows platform, and I can appreciate (some of) the extra
effort that parallel development platforms wou
Steven Bethard wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 5:10 PM, Steve Holden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Christian Heimes wrote:
>> > Bob Kline wrote:
>> >> Any possibility of revisiting this question (upgrading to a more recent
>> >> compiler for W
itself without the
occasional library compatibility issue), and more freely available.
regards
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Pytho
nnot say how it is licensed to the PSF for
redistribution, nor do I know whether Oracle's acquisition of SleepyCat
will affect future versions. Bet it gave the MySQL guys some sleepless
nights, though.
regards
Steve
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Trent Nelson wrote:
>>> New sprint idea: getting all (inc. trunk) the buildbots green by
>> Thursday. Anyone interested?
>>
>> I think the chance to achieve that is close to zero.
>
> Sounds like a challenge if ever I've heard one -- care to wager a beer on it?
> (Only applies to buildbots that
Then put the picture on your screen and SEND ME A SCREENSHOT!
regards
Steve
Neal Norwitz wrote:
> Great work Trent! You'll need to take a picture of Martin buying you
> the beer once you get the rest green. :-)
>
> n
>
> On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 5:57 PM, Trent Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote
Leif Walsh wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Paul Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > This strikes me as a gratuitous API change of the kind Guido was
>> > warning about in his recent post: "Don't change your APIs incompatibly
>> > when porting to Py3k"
>>
>> This seems compelling t
Martin v. Löwis wrote:
Martin v. Löwis wrote:
>> I'll note that I use easy_install *only* to work in *non-system*
>> locations: if I want to install Python packages to /usr/lib/python2.x/,
>> I use the standard system installer, e.g. 'apt-get install
>> python-frobnatz'.
>
> This is probably not
ge or other sites with special
> download mechanisms
>
> * scan websites for links
>
> * make coffee, clean the house, send the kids to school :-)
>
But a package that *would* do this could be immensely popular.
>> And of course, there are still some issu
e in order to get a satisfactory
translation into 3.0.
Once you start editing 3.0 source you have to either leave the 2.X world
behind or accept a dual-source development.
regards
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;repr" consumption
of the values? "The next couple of elements" is a dangerous thing to use
unless you don't mind them disappearing. And the last one's right out -
you;d end up storing lists anyway!
regards
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H
te and read. (And making it a regex match would be
> even cooler.)
>
In which case assertRaisesMatching (and then eventually
assert_raises_matching) might be a better name for it?
regards
Steve
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and direct error message like
"Illegal use of [] subscripting/indexing"?
one-more-coat-for-the-bikeshed-ly y'rs - steve
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Giampaolo Rodola' wrote:
Maybe it would be better considering Windows CE systems too:
- if os.name == 'nt'
+ if os.name in ('nt', 'ce')
Cygwin? I don't know how Unix-like it is.
regards
Steve
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stribution".
-1
Zooko
who doesn't mind stirring up trouble on occasion...
regards
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who doesn't mind trouble but would rather see communications improve
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where to put it ;-)
On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 8:25 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[much good sense]
regards
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de with an assignment which
would make a name be recognized as local? If you're worried about
"yield" disappearing you should also be worried about assignments
disappearing, since that might cause names to be interpreted as glob
cial applications to number checks in
batches, from a starting point that depends on the number of checks
issued in previous runs. Having a start point would allow this to be
done more simply, though it's not anyway what I would call an onerous task.
regards
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ongue out of your cheek immediately. I am beginning to
feel somewhat uncomfortable on your behalf.
regards
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P
nux. AFAIK the patch hasn't been applied yet.
See http://bugs.python.org/issue1322
Contributor agreement?
regards
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he given platforms. I
would like "being able to call a wide range of native libraries" to be a
Python claim on all platforms, even when the native libraries are
platform-proprietary.
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ahamh, 2008-05-19 23:49 Updated + doc -> reST
That was quick. I'm not in a position to svn update were I am. Looks
like someone's paying attention, though.
regards
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an that we need access to the Sun compiler or that the Sun
compiler has bugs which prevent ctypes from compiling?
I don't think anyone's mentioned Solaris in this context, but there are
claims that libffi "doesn't build" for AIX and HP-UX.
regards
Steve
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()"
100 loops, best of 3: 0.454 usec per loop
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~
$ python -m timeit "'%s' % ''"
1000 loops, best of 3: 0.0715 usec per loop
(times are a bit variable at this very moment since I have a few
different apps open)
Me too. Timin
") worked.
It would be even handier if help(if) worked, but that's a syntax
problem, and it would be a horrendous one to overcome, I suspect.
regards
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"salvaging" it. It's going to be too tricky to convert using 2to3
otherwise.
regards
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havior to
complain if it stopped working. Basically retaining this behavior is
pandering to people who have ignored the language specification!
regards
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the new one too? It does seem
that change was a little precipitate.
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Perhaps we need a split between "networking technologies" and
"network-based applications".
regards
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eport it and the core developers
ignore the reports, that's something that should be rectified.
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, saying that "a" is given twice.
is this a bug or a feature?
-tomer
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sattr() to determine method
availability, while not strictly "look before you leap" because it
doesn't test for a specific type, certainly isn't EAFP either.
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ers of a string is going to be an extremely
inefficient operation.
Surely it's desirable under all circumstances that
len(u) == sum(1 for c in u)
and that
[c for c in u] == [c[i] for i in range(*len(u))]
How would that play under Jeroen's proposed change?
regards
Steve
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lpful to many people (including myself).
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it". The stdlib is definitely broken if it
raises warnings of that kind.
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Benjamin Peterson wrote:
On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 8:02 AM, Steve Holden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Benjamin Peterson wrote:
Yes, indeed. We should make sure, however, that the changes in the 2.6
libraries are the absolute minimum to get the job done. (I'm trying to
pretend like
the failure of the test, not the specific
exception that is raised to fail it. Or would you prefer tests that
raise other exceptions to succeed? The exception type is an
implementation detail, and a fairly unimportant one as far as the
purpose of testing goes.
regards
Steve
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Antoine Pitrou wrote:
Let's split hairs a little...
Steve Holden holdenweb.com> writes:
"Fail" isn't a negative. As Guido said, it's a description of the test
behavior under particular circumstances.
In most circumstances, "fail" is a negative word def
uch less natural way of expressing the condition, and (for
all I know) might even introduce an extra negation operation. "is not"
is, I believe, treated as a single operator.
> [...]
regards
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e wrong decision is better than no decision, and I
suspect most if us can agree that it's better if everyone thinks about
tests the same way. Otherwise test code is difficult to understand for
some of its user population.
regards
Steve
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Tim Peters wrote:
[Michael Foord]
...
Adding the following new asserts:
...
assertNotIs (first, second, msg=None)
[Steve Holden]
Please, let's call this one "assertIsNot".
+1
I know it's valid Python to say
if a not is b:
Nope, that's a syntax error
e obvious pattern set by
the others, in the interest of matching Python's 'is not' grammar.
Well, I'd have said "in the interest of reading correctly in English",
though I have to acknowledge this may not be an issue for many Python
users whose first language not is Engli
ry course):
>>> isinstance(type, object)
True
>>> isinstance(object, type)
True
This is a classic property of general object hierarchies based on
metaclasses. I remember teaching the SmallTalk-80 equivalent to M.Sc.
studnets in the early 1980s, though the detail
ssing some subtlety? 2.5.1 says:
>>> isinstance(unittest.TestCase, type)
True
Also, are there any expected benefits from making this change in 2.7?
What will the module do differently?
It seems like a risky change for zero-benefit.
Better revert it, then :-)
But easier to just drop t
themselves are doubly negative. assert* methods are so much more
straightforward to comprehend.
I think this is where I came in.
regards
Steve
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er my code to use
the updated module you have changed the API. Test code is particularly
sensitive to such changes.
regards
Steve
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ng_as_a_container. Or something equally trivial.
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is myself but a) I'm not the obvious candidate and b) I'm too
busy to give it my attention now.
If someone wanted to tackle this, it might help getting people testing
for the next beta, and also to recruit more testers in the long-term.
regards
Steve
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nless you can find a way to add the checks without slowing it down,
an external checker might be better.
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een so far are all way impractical anyway.
regards
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63, Apr 15 2008, 22:57:26)
str("qwer")
'qwer'
repr("qwer")
"'qwer'"
No it doesn't. What's happening in these examples is that the
interpreter is calling repr() on the expression result - otherwise you
wouldn'
of time before some genius decides to design a 67.9-bit computer.
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http://mail
g/dev/peps/pep-3117/
Not to mention the April 1 Licensing blog entry:
http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2006/04/python-25-licensing-change.html
regards
Steve
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answer.
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ted
that the patches will never get released.
Perhaps we should just document the maintenance of Python releases
more clearly and also plan for a final bug fix release 3 years after
the initial branch release. That way developers and users can also
adjust their plans accordingly.
As always the problem is
f All Engine users download this old version.)
I'd be happy to arrange things with a Mac expert to put the Mac binaries on
the download site.
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ions and you have to privately backport,
though, isn't it?
There have been hints dropped that if the 2.6 release hits its deadline
it will be incorporated into vendor builds. Let's hope one of them is
MacOS, then at least it'll be relatively up to date.
regards
Steve
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suspicious of any solution involving the word "just". I suppose we
will "just" be able to recruit volunteers to maintain the additional
content?
regards
Steve
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t this is low risk high benefit,
> I'd vote no for 2.6/3.0.
But it's [the] wafer-thin [end of the wedge] ...
The difficulties with subprocess suggest there's plenty to do without
adding yet one more tiny little task.
regards
Steve
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t you should take a look at Enthought's traits
package. It's part of the Enthought Tool Suite (ETS).
https://svn.enthought.com/enthought/wiki
While I too appreciate your comments about super I believe you have
perhaps overdone it. I do look forward to seeing the edited edition as a
part of t
; there's code that must painstakingly strip the trailing 'c' or 'o'
> from __file__ in order to read the source code. Perhaps we should have
> a separate API for finding out whether a module was loaded from source
> or from a .pyc file; but I think it would be better
to the directory first. For me, not
> a big deal.
>
My own solution, on systems where I haven't bothered to add \python25
and python25\Scripts to the PATH, is to simply use
\python25\python
With tab expansion enabled by default it's easy enough.
regards
Steve
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hat it was such a restrictive license. When I
> see "Berkeley" I think "BSD license".
>
Well of course nowadays when you see "SleepyCat" you need to be thinking
"Oracle". They have dabbled in open source, but I didn't get the
impression that the
ned that it appears that normal procedures have
been circumvented to enable its removal from 3.0. Since we have at least
one developer committed to ongoing support that seems both harsh and
unnecessary.
regards
Steve
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>python
'python' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
operable program or batch file.
C:\Users\sholden\Documents\dyjr>manage.py
Type 'manage.py help' for usage.
regards
Steve
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s 2.x What's New doc. That's what people
> expect to find. We shouldn't be changing that now.
>
+1
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e a cross-link to the 3.0 docs.
>
Indeed. Having spent efforts to persuade the community that 3.0 isn't
intended to replace 2.6 for production use it would be a shame to have
docs.python.org counteract that.
regards
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tive portions of the security team would help
the busy members to avoid such issues dropping through the cracks in future.
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his was more of a "so how the hell does it really work" question.
>
I haven't yet heard anyone make a convincing case that it does. It is a
great idea, and we *do* need to take security seriously, but at present
all we have is a bunch of well-intentioned and over-committed volunt
to run the
> program through 2to3 to make it port correctly, I recommend to use
> the build_py_2to3 build step of distutils in 3.0. Then the same source
> can be installed for 2.x and 3.x, with no modifications.
>
Of course there is also the option of treating Python 3 as a diffe
te removing
the pre-defined 'bytes', or maybe defining it as something else.
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bytes alias
> serves? I spent 5 minutes with the docs but I wasn't able to find a good
> explanation of the bytes alias
>
Yes, I think all that's really needed is a clarification in the
documentation. Just so people expect slightly kooky behavior of the kind
originally n
me they are called).
>
Though it would seem redundant to create multiple copies of constant
structures. Wouldn't there be some way to optimize this to allow each
call to access the data from the same place?
> Then fusing e.g. LOAD_FAST LOAD_FAST BINARY_ADD into ADD_FAST_FAST would cove
ure. You never know when
> personal affairs are more important than voluntary work.
>
Pretty much whenever they come up ...
regards
Steve
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Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
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