The pyjamas author seems to have a different
> opinion about installing stuff into /usr without working with the system's
> packaging mechanism:
>
> http://bugs.python.org/setuptools/issue63
>
> I don't understand how that can possibly be manageable.
>
Note
t.p_print and ...
That way madness lies. Besides which, what a terrific opportunity to
castigate the Py3k developers forever. Opportunities like that don't
come by every day ;-)
regards
Steve
--
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Maybe of
you looked at the code you would find low-hanging fruit you could pick
for sensible use cases.
regards
Steve
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__
Guido van Rossum wrote:
[...] (There could be good reasons not to
> complexificate it this way too.)
>
You've been 'Mercanized. This is the most worstest English I have ever
seen you write.
regards
Steve
--
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ile the "yield from" expression's
value comes from "outside" (the value passed to a .send() method call).
Please forgive this bear of very little brain. I suspect the
documentation will need to make this asymmetry more obvious still.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden
Module(__name__).filePath.parent().listdir()
>
> (and yes, this works with zip files)
Careful, Glyph. Nobody likes a smart-ass ;-)
regards
Steve
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Holden Web LLC http:
mmer I ever
>> met.)
>
> But is his humility enough to cancel out Linus's attitude?
>
All the humility in the world pales besides Linus's attitude. But that's
probably just because we are all fools.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden
on't
>> fix it." :-)
>
> Anything using an exec
that can be done in some other (more pythonic way)
> is broken by definition ;-)
>
> Benjamin?
>
We've just had a fairly clear demonstration that small semantic changes
to the language can leave unexpected
s the big disadvantage of not being Microsoft-endorsed,
> though. In that sense, it feels very much like easy_install (which also
> does dependencies).
>
Not only that, but the Cygwin packaging system appears to be extremely
difficult to organize a package for.
regards
Steve
--
Steve H
hitespace in makefiles: only the fact that leading tabs were required
rather than just-any-old whitespace.
I guess some people just home in on things to complain about.
regards
Steve
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suring that all
contributions to source are correctly logged against authors in a
traceable way.
regasds
Steve
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Want to know? Come to PyCon - soon! http://us.pycon.org/
__
gt;
> You wrote a program to find the two smallest ints that would have a
> hash collision in the CPython set implementation? I'm impressed. And
> by impressed I mean frightened.
>
Given the two numbers in question (1, 2**16+1) I suspect this is the
result of an
>>
>>>>> print set([-1,6]).pop(), set([6,-1]).pop()
>> 6 -1
>
> Can't resist:
>
>>>> print set([-2,-1]).pop(), set([-1,-2]).pop()
> -1 -2
>
>>> a = 0.001
>>> b = 0.002
>>> print set([a, b]).pop(), set([b, a]).pop
the only ways to
store the messages are either as a monolithic bytes string that gets
parsed when the individual components are required or as a sequence of
components in the database's preferred encoding (if you want to keep the
original encoding most relational databases won't be able to he
Tony Nelson wrote:
> (email-sig added)
>
> At 08:07 -0400 04/09/2009, Steve Holden wrote:
>> Barry Warsaw wrote:
> ...
>>> This is an interesting question, and something I'm struggling with for
>>> the email package for 3.x. It turns out to be pretty
B adapters appears to require some fairly hairy escaping
of the data to make it usable with the cursor execute() method. IMHO you
shouldn't have to escape data that is passed for insertion via a
parameterized query.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
H
airly deeply embedded in the PostgreSQL engine. No "syntax" should be
necessary.
I suppose if we have to go round again on this we should take it to
email as we have gotten pretty far off-topic for python-dev.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 49
Oleg Broytmann wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 09, 2009 at 04:42:21PM -0400, Steve Holden wrote:
>> If I can't pass a 256-byte string into a BLOB and get it back without
>> anything like this happening then there's *something* in the chain that
>> makes the database useless
MSDN site)
Project/Company (Python Software Foundation)
Complete Mailing Address
(Street Address)
(City), (State/Province)
(Postal or Zip Code)
(Country)
Phone Number
-- Tom
-----Original Message-
From: Steve Holden [mailto:st...@holdenweb.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 0
Christian Heimes wrote:
> Steve Holden wrote:
>> Devs:
>>
>> I've been in correspondence with Microsoft about the provision of
>> software, and it transpires that if you want to support Windows better
>> Microsoft will be quite liberal about licensing: they wi
I sent fourteen requests for licenses in to Microsoft. I've asked them
to let me know which they grant (since they may choose to limit the
number) and will inform you all personally when I hear their decision.
regards
Steve
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Holde
e dev list right now I'd
appreciate direct Cc's.
regards
Steve
PS: If any further core developers need licenses, I plan to apply to
Microsoft again in the new year. I'll be sending out a message then, I
don't intend to keep a waiting list.
--
Steve Holden +1 571 4
Subject: RE: [PSF-Board] Microsoft contributor agreement received?
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 23:25:45 +
From: Scott Wiltamuth
To: Dino Viehland , Steve Holden
CC: p...@python.org , VanL , Dave
Fugate
References:
<1a472770e042064698cb5adc83a12acd04d90...@tk5ex14mbxc
gt; From: Ben Hodgson
> To: webmas...@python.org
>
>
>
> Hey there,
>
> In case you don't know, the link on http://www.python.org/download/ to
> the Python 2.6.5 Mac Installer Disk Image
> (http://www.python.org/ftp/python/2.6.5/python-2.6.5_macosx10.3.dmg
Tres Seaver wrote:
> Steve Holden wrote:
>> Why is it unavoidable that the Mac build will languish behind others?
>> Are we supporting MacOs or aren't we? If we are, why isn't the creation
>> of the build a part of the release process?
>
>> Clearly it
of such a decision *very* carefully.
intuition alone (even yours, which I would back against most people's)
may not suffice.
regards
Steve
--
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Holden Web LLC http://www
eks.
>
> That is not surprising: none of the webmaster people would be able to
> answer the question. python-dev is indeed the right place to ask.
>
I thought I'd picked this thread off python-dev. What point am I not
understanding here?
regards
Steve
--
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to.
>
> Yes, ditto the MacPorts/Fink allergy.
>
> All we need is a script, right? The released branches should be built
> automatically every night anyway, just for regression testing.
>
> Perhaps we should take this up on Mac-Python?
>
Please do, and let me know
Michael Foord wrote:
> On 14/04/2010 06:13, Ned Deily wrote:
>> In article,
>> Steve Holden wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Why is it unavoidable that the Mac build will languish behind others?
>>> Are we supporting MacOs or aren't we? If we are, why
r.
>
> That is just my recollection, however - it may be out of date or wrong.
> Paul.
I spent some considerable effort last year ensuring the developer
community was well-supplied with MS developer licenses that give access
to any necessary tools. Was I wasting my time?
regards
Steve
--
S
e__/foo.jython-32.class`. Some implementations may
>> use multiple compiled files to create the module, in which case
>> `__cached__` may be a tuple. The exact contents of `__cached__` are
>> Python implementation specific.
>>
>> It is recommended that when nothing sensib
some idea in order to get relevant results (e.g.,
> windows, windoze, window$, win32).
>
Yes, tight vocabulary control will lead to more consistent classifications.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
See PyCon Talks from Atlanta 2010 http://
ning pieces in the
> script, too, and no living person has that much expertise to write the
> script (perhaps there are one or two people, and they don't have the time).
>
I take it you don't mean to imply that there's a dead person somewhere
with the necessary expertise? [
the time).
>
> Well, God forbid they should ever be hit by a bus! This kind of thing
> needs to be written down.
>
+1
regards
Steve
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Holden Web LLC htt
quot;authority" to recommend him.
In such an event (or if committers are too busy to action a promising
candidate) I don't see anything wrong with a candidate asking directly
(as long as they are prepared to put up with a semi-public discussion of
their application's merits).
reg
of presenting the content, though there is no thread subscription.
Google Groups have their disadvantages too. I personally dislike "web
forum" style interfaces.
regards
Steve
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See PyCon Talks from Atlanta 2010 http://pycon.b
osoft Developer Network licenses to open source
> projects to assist them in better supporting Windows.
>
>[...]
> If this applies to you and you are interested, let me know.
>
Thanks, Brian, for taking this on.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494
and that it couldn't be generated using keyword argument
syntax, but I don't see why we discriminate against f(**dict(...)) to
limit it to what could be generated using keyword argument syntax. Is
this such a big deal?
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Guido van Rossum wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 4:38 PM, Steve Holden wrote:
>> I'm sure we wouldn't want to go so far as to inhibit this. (Py 3.1)
>>
>>>>> def f(**kwargs):
>> ... kwargs[1] = "dummy"
>> ... print(kwargs)
'll be happy to change IronPython to be more compatible. :)
>
>
This would be a lose anyway, since the CPython specifications suggest
that you should not rely on being able to change locals() (or at least
shouldn't expect that such changes are actually reflected in the local
namespace)
pletely controlled from
> the master side, and then uploading the resulting dmg file. I'd be
> happy to help coordinate any experiments offline if you're interested.
>
> I do currently have a DMG built for 2.7 Beta 1, if it would be useful.
>
t and
> convenient for 40%, would you remove it? Really?
> IMO, removal of a feature which is used by 40% is out of the question;
> and if removal is, deprecation is as well.
>
> Back to the actual numbers: dropping the argument is impossibl
> |
> | Both are ok for me. "-v" as a shortcut for "--version" looks wrong, though.
> | "-v" is almost always used for verbosity these days.
>
> My view is the same.
I don't expect -v to be one or the other, and I certainly don't expect
th
ad license, with activation keys for
many products generated on demand.
regards
Steve
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UPCOMING EVENTS:http://holden
Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On Apr 19, 2010, at 08:14 AM, Brian Curtin wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 06:48, Steve Holden wrote:
>>
>>> Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>>>> Le Fri, 16 Apr 2010 08:01:54 -0500, Brian Curtin a écrit :
>>>>> The recent thr
me to review the way people "prove their motivation and the
quality of their work"?
regards
Steve
* I'd be against it, but I'd fight to change the development process so
that adding new people *didn't* create work. We should, in m
ody will have to make a decision, and that
> is "work".
>
Well, I'm sorry to have put you to the work of penning that reply, when
you could have used the effort instead to triage a bug.
regards
Steve
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omething you write in
a statement.
Some of the comments in this thread have seemed positively unwelcoming,
even though I doubt that was the authors' intention.
regards
Steve
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See PyCon Talks from Atlanta 2010 ht
R. David Murray wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 14:15:01 -0400, Steve Holden wrote:
[...]
> For the record, note that both Antoine and I have been instrumental in
> bringing more than one new person into both the triage and the committer
> ranks. We (along with others) *are* the on
body would make an decision ultimately, one which both proponents
> and opponents of the PEP would accept.
>
> Without a BDFL, I think we need a committee to make decisions, e.g. by
> majority vote amongst committers.
Couldn't we just go with the FLUFL?
regards
Steve
--
Steve Ho
back now). As a starting point, Barry would have to indicate whether he
> is interested in that role.
>
If he isn't then we can depose him and replace him with a puppet.
regards
Steve
PS: Barry: sorry I can't make the gig tonight. Hope it went well ...
--
Steve Holden
ughout the civilized world.
>
The last time I was in a UK builders' yard I hear someone asking for
"two meter pieces of two by four". At the time the UK was notionally
metric (and the timber was planed to the nearest metric size) but the
old names still survived.
regards
lease. There's plenty to do
without having to fight that issue too.
I'm copying this message to Rich Leland, who is currently making a study
of the PSF's web requirements, to make sure this gets folded in. Many of
the tasks are essentially macrogeneration, and unless automated will
r
rdize all C files on a 4-spaces
> indentation rule?
>
> I understand the "svn annotate" argument, but we edit code far more often
> than we annotate it. Also, it seems "svn ann -x -w" would ignore
> whitespace changes.
>
Let's not forget to consider what Hg
l to partial(operator.add, 2). I don't think he's
> suggesting it should compare equal to partial(lambda x,y: x+y, 2).
>
Which absence, presumably, also mildly disappoints you?
regards
Steve
> +0.5 on comparing equal.
> +1 on a nicer repr for partial
n Java and
> C++ and (at least in Java) it is used extensively and without too much
> trouble. If there are implementation bugs then we can fix them just like
> we would with any other module.
>
I don't see the availability of this functionality in those languages as
any kind of rea
Jesse Noller wrote:
> On Sun, May 23, 2010 at 7:52 AM, Steve Holden wrote:
> ...snip...
>
>>>> Issues like the ones I'm bringing up could be fixed pretty
>>>> straightforwardly if it were just a matter of filing a bug on a small
>>>> package,
org which would break backward compatibility. IMO it would make
> more
> sense to leave this module as a top-level module for now (a sibling to
> "threading", "multiprocessing").
>
Unless there's some way of having the two namespaces (existing and
concurrent
ys seems to happen when the rule is broken;
2) But we may wish to release 3.1.2.1(?) which backports fixes from the
3.2 line but retains the file store semantics (which I am assured will
be easy in the glorious reign of Hg).
Surely some compatible "shim" layer could have been intro
ypothetical 2.8 development team.
>
How does throwing away information represent "moving forward"?
I have to say I am surprised by the current lack of momentum behind 3.x,
but I do know users who consider that their current investment in the
2.x series is unlikely to migrate to 3
lopment community we decided to change the language. Now we have
to do what we can to ensure that the changed language has appropriate
support.
regards
Steve
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Ho
Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 6/9/2010 10:42 AM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>
>>> Steve Holden wrote
>>>> How does throwing away information represent "moving forward"?
>
> 'Closing' a tracker issue does not 'throw away' information', it *a
e all that pent up energy focussed on doing whatever we can to help
> people transition to Python 3.
>
Though one might ironically suggest that sticking to the policy actually
represents a change in policy :)
regards
Steve
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See Pyt
ibrary support, and they are the guys who see the
issues day in day out so it is hard to argue with them (and I don't
think an autocratic decision-making process would be appropriate).
regards
Steve
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See Python Video! http://python.
channel is just
> a signpost pointing at an empty room.
>
Which is yet another reason I don't think it would be productive to
attempt any kind of pre-emptive action against the #python team. They do
serve a very useful purpose, and there is reasoned logic behind their
position even if we mig
and would
like to tap your developer creativity in helping to define how the
Foundation can effectively commit more developer time to Python.
GSoC and GHOP are great examples, but there is plenty of room for all
sorts of initiatives that result in development opportunities. I'd like
to hel
atter as the
> other thing.
>
>
> Thanks again for everyone's input on all of python-dev, #python,
> #python-offtopic,
> Laurens
>
And thanks for engaging so directly and responsively. The Python
community has impressed me again with its maturity.
regards
ly need to make this move.
>
> I agree we have to make it at some point but I feel this is way, way too
> early.
>
> thanks for your continued input,
> Laurens
But it's never too early to plan for something you know to be
inevitable. More planning might have helped ear
a
problem - they could probably be done at a gross level).
regards
Steve
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ake a major
step forward. This won't be a campaign with a victorious charge over
some imaginary finish line.
regards
Steve
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Stephen Thorne wrote:
> On 2010-06-25, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
>> Am 25.06.2010 01:28, schrieb Stephen Thorne:
>>> Steve Holden Wrote:
>>>> Given the amount of interest this thread has generated I can't help
>>>> wondering why it isn'
nal list (not copies of those objects). A deep copy
would need to copy any referenced lists, and so on.
> Can this be updated? Or someone explain to me why it's correct?
>
It sounds correct to me.
regards
Steve
> Cheers
>
> Example:
>
>
>>>> t = [1, 2, 3]
>&g
2 due out?
regards
Steve
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"All I want for my birthday is anothe
to actually be a performance issue, you
> can always deal with it later, with a custom string type." I'm
> confident that in *most* cases, it would not be.
>
Well that would be a nice win.
> Anyway, this may be a serious issue, but I increasingly feel like I'm
> veeri
thon.
>
> No no no. [...]
It isn't always easy to tell, but I think Martin meant "no".
regards
Steve
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Holden Web LLC htt
work for me. If schedule slips in any way, we'll have
> to move the release into end-of-September (but the days as proposed are
> fine).
>
> Regards,
> Martin
A six-week slippage wouldn't be good. What's the relevant chaos theory
when a one- or two-day hold lead
to what version
>> to download.
>
> Ah, ok. No, nobody has taken ownership of that project, and likely,
> nobody actually will - unless you volunteer.
>
Or perhaps spur the pydotorg community on with some well-placed
encouragement. Nobody ever seems to say "thanks" to t
Regards,
> Martin
I suppose for 2..6. it's not really critical.
regards
Steve
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Nick Coghlan wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 9:23 AM, Benjamin Peterson
> wrote:
>> 2010/6/25 Steve Holden :
>> I would call it more a sign of no tests rather than one of neglect and
>> perhaps also an indication of the usefulness of those tools.
>
> Less t
ily just do a timing of test_mailbox
under 2.6 and 3.2, to verify they see the same disparity as me? The test
takes about twice as long under 3.1 here (and I am concerned that
unexercised aspects of the code may extend real-world problem run times
by an order of magnitude or more).
regards
St
> Nick.
>
Thanks for all the timings! If a Windows user could do the same thing
that would help ...
regards
Steve
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Steve Holden wrote:
> Nick Coghlan wrote:
>> Command line: ./python -m test.regrtest -v test_mailbox
>>
>> trunk: Ran 274 tests in 25.239s
>> py3k: Ran 268 tests in 26.263s
>>
>> So I don't see any substantial difference on a Kubuntu 10.04 box (both
>
ithout going crazy.
I agree - trying to step through -O2 optimized code isn't going to help
debug your code, it's going to help you debug the optimizer. That's a
very rare use case.
regards
Steve
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See Python Video!
A.M. Kuchling wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 11:40:50AM -0400, Steve Holden wrote:
>> I will leave the profiler output to speak for itself, since I can find
>> nothing much to say about it except that there's a hell of a lot of
>> decoding going on inside mailbox.iterk
Steve
> - use that for the rest of the code
>
> --Guido
>
> On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Steve Holden wrote:
>> A.M. Kuchling wrote:
>>> On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 11:40:50AM -0400, Steve Holden wrote:
>>>> I will leave the profiler output to speak for itself, si
R. David Murray wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Jun 2010 13:54:09 -0400, Steve Holden wrote:
>> A.M. Kuchling wrote:
>>> But should mailboxes really be opened in a UTF-8 encoding, or should
>>> they be treated as 7-bit text? I'll have to think about this.
>> Neit
R. David Murray wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Jun 2010 17:02:14 -0400, Steve Holden wrote:
>> Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>
>>> - wrap the binary stream in a text stream
>> "wrap" how? The ultimate destiny of the text is twofold:
>
> I would imagine Guido i
nging this up years ago. I think that
> "unexpected" is a bad term and should be renamed to reflect the fact
> that the test was skipped because an optional third-party package was
> not included.
A "dependency skip", perhaps?
> Or simply output why a certain tes
x27;s innards.
http://eli.thegreenplace.net/2010/06/30/python-internals-adding-a-new-statement-to-python/
regards
Steve
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See Python Video! http://python.mirocommunit
ve to
> see about that.
>
And, as always, a way to get better insight and help speed the process
along is to join the cast ...
regards
Steve
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See Python Video! http://p
about, I wonder if you couldn't
> write one decent patch instead of ten complaining mails, and make both
> you and us happier in the process.
>
+1
That's the spirit, Georg.
Anatoly, I had an email along these lines saved pending transmission,
but I have deleted it now. Let'
tweeting
"tweet me for an invite to the wave") is that you have to persist, and
learn different habits for each set of collaborators. I suppose I should
approve of it on account of how it improves geek social skills.
If the wave were to result in good documentation about how to *get*
ready th
atoly's) messages
>> constructive and insightful. To me it looks like they are wasting the
>> aggregate signal to noise ratio.
>>
>> Antoine.
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Python-Dev mailing list
>> Python-Dev@python.org
>> http://mail.p
Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Jul 2010 12:55:56 -0400
> Steve Holden wrote:
>> Fred Drake wrote:
>>> On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 8:34 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>>>> The two sets of repositories use different conversion tools and rules.
>>>> They ha
hout a
>>> proliferation of mirrors/repos/etc.
>>>
>>> Also, we're not staying on subversion - well, as far I know.
>> At least not parallel to Mercurial. Definitely.
>>
>> Georg
>
> Well, I was worried I missed a meeting in the secret clubhouse
ause a change in another
> one, then certainly that's a sign that they should be in the same
> repo.
>
> But for the windows issue, using subrepo so that when you clone python
> repo, you get the exact same versions of C libraries as used for the
> official msi (tk, tcl, op
ast to simplify the license of Python
> but this would require agreement from the current rights owners
> including CWI and CNRI. IIRC not all of the rights owners are willing
> to agree to a change.
>
That is the current position.
regards
Steve
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>> will cost.
>
> I would be happy to relicense it under the Python license.
>
I believe the ideal outcome, if it is possible, is for you to sign a
contributor agreement. This will license your material to the PSF in
such a way that we can release it under whatever lice
mat__ can be set appropriately. See:
>
> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0258/#id42
>
That is _so_ Python 2 ;-)
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
DjangoCon US September 7-9, 2010http://djangocon.us/
See Python Video! http://p
I see no reason to introduce the
> 2.x behaviour into Python 3.
>
> So I'd say there's nothing to do.
> Paul.
This /could/ become a bugfix in 2.7.x if people thought it was a
sufficiently egregious bug to need fixing. Given that the matter is only
now coming to light it's proba
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