On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 21:53:17 -0400, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> And of course, what happens if the original subject is in one charset and the
> prefix is in an incompatible one? Then you end up with a wire format of two
> RFC 2047 encoded words separated by whitespace. You have to keep those chunks
>
On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 23:45:12 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:
> Based on the discussion so far, I think you should go ahead and
> implement the API agreed on by the mail sig both because is *has* been
> agreed on (and thinking about the wsgi discussion, that seems to be a
> major achievement) and beca
On Mon, 20 Sep 2010 06:55:50 +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 3:27 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> >
> > For the record, the code is pretty much done now:
> > http://bugs.python.org/issue9360
>
> Generally looks pretty reasonable. As I noted on the issue, my one
> concern is that
On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 19:18:35 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 9/22/2010 6:47 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> > Now I understand that opinions over this may vary and involve multiple
> > factors, but I would suggest that at least a bit of mentoring is needed
> > if we want to give privileges early on.
>
opinion on that aspect of it.
For me the change is about making it easier for the dev community
(who are using/creating the development infrastructure) to update the
relevant documentation.
--
R. David Murray www.bitdance.com
___
On Thu, 23 Sep 2010 10:41:35 -0400, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On Sep 23, 2010, at 09:06 AM, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
> >Are any of our docs subject to release schedules?
>
> I guess what I'm concerned about is this scenario:
>
> You're a developer who has the source code to Python 3.1. You read the
h of somebodies who *do* care, then the wiki
would be much more useful. But I still don't want to edit the
dev docs there, if I have a choice :) There's a reason I stopped
updating the wiki as soon as I moved to a code repository.
--
R. David Murray
es
was causing significant problems on the tracker, and so we were forced
to disable his account. This disabling does not need to be permanent.
--
R. David Murray www.bitdance.com
___
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-
ng os specific rather than file system type specific is the usability bug.
But to fix it we'll need to introduce a 'filesystems' module enumerating
the different file systems we support, with tools for figuring out
what filesystem your program is talking to. But normacase still,
wouldn'
On Sat, 25 Sep 2010 14:22:06 +0200, Georg Brandl wrote:
> Am 25.09.2010 14:10, schrieb "Martin v. L=F6wis":
> > The total numbers reported are really the totals. Also, the delta
> > reported for the totals is the difference to the last report.
>
> > The number reported with +/- for open/closed ar
to tell the browser to
*stop* using basic auth.
> imagine that only "ultra geeks" know their URIs (I have no idea what the
> URI for a Google account is). But, I don't see this as being worthwhile
Well, my OpenId is 'david.bitdance.com', so even if you could get aro
A while back on some issue or another I remember telling someone that
if there was any sort of clever hack that would allow the current email
package (email5) to work with bytes we would have implemented it.
Well, I've come up with a clever hack.
The idea came out of a conversation with Antoine.
On Sat, 02 Oct 2010 19:15:57 -0500, Benjamin Peterson
wrote:
> 2010/10/2 R. David Murray :
> > Regardless of whether or not this patch or a descendant thereof is
> > accepted I still intend to continue working on email6. =C2=A0There are ma=
> ny
> > other bugs in the cu
On Mon, 04 Oct 2010 12:32:26 -0400, Scott Dial
wrote:
> On 10/2/2010 7:00 PM, R. David Murray wrote:
> > The clever hack (thanks ultimately to Martin) is to accept 8bit data
> > by encoding it using the ASCII codec and the surrogateescape error
> > handler.
>
> I&#x
On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 22:05:33 +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 3:41 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull
> wrote:
> > R. David Murray writes:
> > > Only if the email package contains a coding error would the
> > > surrogates escape and cause problems for user
with bytes sometimes and strs sometimes.
>
> Please provide a way to return strs-with-surrogates if I ask for them.
Does my proposal make sense? But note, it raises exactly the backward
compatibility concerns you mention in your next email (that I will r
On Wed, 06 Oct 2010 22:55:00 +0900, "Stephen J. Turnbull"
wrote:
> R. David Murray writes:
>
> > version of headers to the email5 API, but since any such data would
> > be non-RFC compliant anyway, [access to non-conforming headers by
> > reparsing the bytes
On Thu, 07 Oct 2010 03:31:34 +0900, "Stephen J. Turnbull"
wrote:
> R. David Murray writes:
>
> > 5. Return the content, with non-ASCII bytes replaced with ?
> > characters.
>
> That hadn't occurred to me (and it makes me sick to contemplate it)
Stephen J. Turnbull xemacs.org> writes:
> R. David Murray writes:
> > We're (in the current patch) not punting on handling non-conforming
> > email, we're punting on handling non-conforming bytes *if the headers
> > that contain them need to be mo
t all programs
using difflib use it to generate diffs for direct output. (2) might
be worth it given that there is a "standard" to follow so it might be
worth coding that standard into the stdlib.
> Orthogonal: *After* a decision is made for
On Thu, 07 Oct 2010 15:00:04 +0900, "Stephen J. Turnbull"
wrote:
> R. David Murray writes:
>
> > > But that's not interesting; you did that with Python 3. We want to
> > Of course I did it with Python3. It's the Python3 email codebase
>
changes (that is, we don't do it intentionally without
a good reason and a deprecation cycle, and if we do it unintentionally
it is a regression and treated as such).
--
R. David Murray www.bitdance.com
___
Python-
vocate here.
Obviously the issues directly affect you, so hopefully it is worth
your time to engage us on this topic.
And thank you for the messages you have sent. I know they have made
me even more careful than I was already trying to be.
--
R. David Murray
g at, although in
practice I think you have to hang wire-format and text-format bits off
of appropriate places in the model in order to keep everything properly
coordinated.
> Maybe even in email5
I suspect that's pushing it. Patches happily accepted, though :)
--
R. David Murray
if you see examples where we are failing in that goal, call us on it
(with specifics).
> to offer, except to underscore again that changes made here affect
> very many people who are too busy using Python to participate here.
> Especially given the still tentative state of 3.X, stabi
n the direction of structure
by breaking lines at "obvious" places like ';'s. (Which line breaking
algorithm is the subject of at least one bug report)
I'd like to fix that in email6 by adding full support for structured
headers.
--
R. David Murray
et sorted out).
>
> I don't understand why this is difficult. As far as what Unicode has
It isn't difficult in principle. It's just difficult in email5.
--
R. David Murray www.bitdance.com
___
On Sat, 09 Oct 2010 02:48:23 +0900, "Stephen J. Turnbull"
wrote:
> R. David Murray writes:
> > On Sat, 09 Oct 2010 01:06:29 +0900, "Stephen J. Turnbull"
> wrote:
> > > That mess is entirely unnecessary in Python 3. Text and wire format
> > >
an end to that naming scheme, and that's a shame.
>
> Anyway, I can always alias pysetup to cheeseshop or ohmightytim on my
> machine and reminisce.
Or thebookofarmaments.
--
R. David Murray www.bitdance.com
___
. Why it can't "just work" for my
> user story?
Because you weren't around advocating and implementing a change when
Python 3 was developed?
It's too late now to arbitrarily break backward compatibility, so you'll
have to advocate and develop any change inside the parameter
On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 19:33:52 +0200,
=?windows-1252?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?= wrote:
> > So as well as pysetup.py/.exe I would like pysetup-3.2.py / .exe on
> > Windows please. (I'd really like a python-3.2.exe as well.)
>
> Please submit a patch to the installer, then.
>
> I'm still skeptic
t?
Good question :)
When I added this it seemed like such a simple thing. Maybe the
endianness issue is the one to look at, despite the pass on Solaris.
--
R. David Murray www.bitdance.com
___
Python-Dev mailing list
following issues
> could be commited: 4499, 678250, 730467.
I've committed #9862, #4499 and #678250. I'd like a confirming opinion
on #730467, though it sounds reasonable to me.
--
R. David Murray www.bitdance.com
___
l Stutzbach and I are (were) two users of the second meaning. Itâs
> more useful to follow Raymondâs meaning, so that a simple query can find
> all accepted patches that are awaiting commit.
>
> I donât remember if I took up this use from R. David Murray or someone
> else,
ing it 'unit test needed', but if
people would rather change it back to just 'test needed', I will raise
no objection, since in practice trying to squeeze the meaning I wanted
into the stage field doesn't really work.
--
R. David Murray www.b
tting users groups to participate).
I'll be around and able to participate that weekend except for evening
US Eastern time.
--
R. David Murray www.bitdance.com
___
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev@python.org
h
ducing a new directory and having multiple files that cross-import
> one another.
+1 (or more)
--
R. David Murray www.bitdance.com
___
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/list
On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 16:46:15 -0400, Michael Foord wrote:
> On 26/10/2010 15:05, R. David Murray wrote:
> > On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 10:39:19 -0700, Raymond
> > Hettinger wrote:
> >> If someone wants to reorganize code for clarity, I would prefer keeping
> >> it
d I'm not saying that packages are always bad.
I'm just saying that packages are also not always good; and, further,
that the number of lines of code in a file should, IMO, have nothing to
do with the decision as to whether or not to create a packa
But the reality is that almost all those Python2 users are future Python3
users, so they *are* the future user base. And like Georg said, as far
as we can see Python3 uptake is pretty much right on the schedule that
was predicted when it was first released.
--
R. David
es of 2.7 are worth the effort, we will, I'm
sure, continue to produce them.
What *new features* are needed in 2.x? I think the effort required
to set up and maintain a fork is a good measure of whether or not such
features are *valuable enough* to be worth doing. If they are, someone
will do
eems like it would need to be documented, even though
it would in a lot of cases just be used through assertEqual.
--
R. David Murray www.bitdance.com
___
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev@python.org
http://mail.pyth
On Sat, 30 Oct 2010 18:36:45 +0200, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Oct 2010 12:02:27 -0400
> "R. David Murray" wrote:
> >
> > I don't disagree with this simplification, but given that you all want
> > to pare down the unittest API, I'd be in
7;s no biggie to have an optional style argument for basicConfig.
> People who don't use it don't have to specify it; the style argument would
> only
> apply if format was specified.
>
> For some people, use of {} over % is more about personal taste than about the
>
hm is stable, which means the above
> behaviour is a feature. I see no easy way of eliminating the O(n*n)
> issue. Custom key functions can't work in all cases.
Even granting some theoretical way to sort sets by their contents, it
still wouldn't be a bu
le,
so that is in fact *not* an invariant:
>>> x = ['abcd', 'foo'*50, 'foo'*50, 'dkke']
>>> y = x[::-1]
>>> [id(n) for n in sorted(x)]
[3073747680, 3073747904, 3073747624, 3073747512]
>>> [id(n) for n in sorted(y)]
[3073747680,
On Mon, 01 Nov 2010 15:14:36 -, Michael Foord
wrote:
> On 01/11/2010 15:10, R. David Murray wrote:
> > On Mon, 01 Nov 2010 14:26:19 -, Michael
> > Foord wrote:
> >> Well, bug is the wrong word as it is obviously an intended feature (or
> >> consequ
imarily on the available system memory
(see: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/configtuning-kernel-limits.html)
The systems I got the above number from have 1GB of memory.
--
R. David Murray www.bitdance.com
___
Pytho
n" and "closed"
> deltas is already quite an achievement and shows that our triage works.
Agreed.
We did have negative open deltas for several weeks running in October.
Kudos to everyone involved, and lets do it some more :) I&
resolved soon.
FYI bugs.python.org and www.python.org are different machines, and
in fact the two machines are not even hosted at the same location.
Valery, I would advise you to submit the patch to bugs.python.org when
it comes back up. Patches posted to this mailing list will in general
On Mon, 08 Nov 2010 17:02:24 +0100, wrote:
> If there is no enormous difficulty in maintaining compatibility, I think
> the usual deprecation process should be followed. We donât know who is
> using pydoc as a library, so letâs play safe and not risk breaking their
> code (especially consider
On Mon, 08 Nov 2010 18:10:17 -0600, Ron Adam wrote:
> def _private_api():
> #
> # Isn't it a good practice to use comments here?
> #
> ...
IMO, no.
--
R. David Murray www.bitdance.com
__
ode to deal with.
I think Tres was referring to certain packages (which shall remain
nameless since I don't feel like googling to find one) whose
documentation recommends the 'from import *' methodology.
At least that's how I read "Module writers who..." (that is,
s.python.org/issue1553375
--
R. David Murray www.bitdance.com
___
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/
r this list. The question was "why did you developers drop this
(obscure) feature that we depend on in Python3?" I don't think that
question would make sense on python-list. Granted, there's a fuzzy
line there, but pylint is really development infrastructure :)
The pyth
d the ActiveState recipes for simple caches, but in
almost every case, I've had to adapt the implementation to provide more
transparency. I'd prefer to not have to do the same with the stdlib.
Regards,
Jason R. Coombs
# modified from
http://code.activestate.com/recipes/498245-lru-and-l
processing of non-RFC conformant data.
I want to look at the CGI issue, but I'm not sure when I'll get to it.
--
R. David Murray www.bitdance.com
___
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev@python.org
http://
ng written the above, I googled for UCS-2 and got the Wikipedia
article on UTF16/UCS-2 [1]. Scanning that article, I do not see anything
that would clue me in to the problems of slicing strings in a Python
narrow build. Indeed, reading that article with my limited unicode
knowledge, if I were told P
On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 10:17:57 -0800, Raymond Hettinger
wrote:
> On Nov 21, 2010, at 9:38 AM, R. David Murray wrote:
> > I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. As a relative unicode ignoramus,
> > "UCS-2" and "UCS-4" convey almost no information to me, and the
On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 19:59:54 -0800, Glenn Linderman
wrote:
> On 11/21/2010 9:18 AM, R. David Murray wrote:
> > I want to look at the CGI issue, but I'm not sure when I'll get to it.
>
> Actually, since this code was working before 3.x, and if email.parser
> can n
`, the
faq/extending.rst: ... print('UCS4 build')
faq/extending.rst: ... print('UCS2 build')
--
R. David Murray www.bitdance.com
___
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev@python.org
http://m
On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 12:37:59 -0500, Alexander Belopolsky
wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 12:30 PM, R. David Murray
> wrote:
> ..
> > For reference, a grep in py3k/Doc reveals that there are currently exactly
> > 23 lines mentioning UCS2 or UCS4 in the docs.
>
> Did
efer Python because it uses smaller and more namespaces
> which are more specific and well defined. If we add email and compression
> functions to bytes, why not adding a web browser to the str?
As MAL says, the codec machinery is a general purpose too
On Fri, 03 Dec 2010 11:14:56 -0500, Alexander Belopolsky
wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 10:11 AM, R. David Murray
> wrote:
> ..
> > Please also recall that transform/untransform was discussed before
> > the release of Python 3.0 and was approved at the time, but it
I understand all four
of these to be "versions of xxx that won't raise". I think that's
a reasonable use of the word 'safe', but perhaps there is something
better.
SafeConfigParser doesn't follow that pattern, of course, though it
is perhaps true that it would raise er
7;t at the moment), it seems to make sense from an implementation
standpoint as well.
Like Ãric, I'm not sure what the implications of the existing module
having been released in 2.7 and 3.2 beta are in terms of making such an
API change.
--
R. David Murray
re lots
more out there[*]. I do especially like the fact that there is one in the
stdlib :)
It seems like the status quo is fine. I wouldn't object to it being
made more consistent. I would object to removing the existing cases.
--
R. David Murray www.bit
un directly. In 3.2, this means it will never show up
normally, since you can't even run the .pyc file without moving it out of
__pycache__. Which means 'ddir' is henceforth useful only to those people
who want to package sourceless distributions of the python code. (If
'12,345'
> ...
> >>> "UK says {value:,@uk} and France says
> {value:,@france}".format(value=12345, uk=uk_loc, france=france_loc)
> 'UK says 1,234.5 and France says 1 234,5'
>
> Comments?
There was at least one long thread on this on py
s "actual, expected"... And yet "expected,
> actual" still looks weird to me. :-(
You aren't unique, I feel the same way. But it seems to me that the most
important thing is to be consistent, so that I don't freak out for long.
--
R. David Murray
t; let developers act more quickly on bug reports. I wonder if this output
> really speeds up the process.
>
> Do you have an example bug where this patch helps in finding the precise
> location of a segfault?
How is 'line 29 in g' not more precise
ion:: int PyErr_WarnFormat(PyObject *category, Py_ssize_t
> stack_level, const char *format, ...)
>
> Function similar to :c:func:`PyErr_WarnEx`, but use
> - :c:func:`PyUnicode_FromFormat` to format the warning message.
> + :c:func:`PyUnicode_FromFormat` to format the warning m
with
the 8th bit set, leaving no room for interpretation. So presumably
you mean it is (treated as) an ISO-8859-1 encoded string, despite the
function name?
--
R. David Murray www.bitdance.com
___
Python-Dev mailing
On Tue, 28 Dec 2010 13:58:24 +0100, Victor Stinner
wrote:
> Le mardi 28 décembre 2010 à 11:40 +0100, "Martin v. Löwis" a écrit :
> > Am 28.12.2010 11:28, schrieb Victor Stinner:
> > > Le lundi 27 décembre 2010 à 23:07 -0500, R. David Murray a écrit :
> &g
On Tue, 28 Dec 2010 10:28:51 +0100, Victor Stinner
wrote:
> Le lundi 27 décembre 2010 à 23:13 -0500, R. David Murray a écrit :
> > > Modified: python/branches/py3k/Doc/c-api/unicode.rst
> > > ==
gt;
>> I believe you mean
>> "struct.pack no longer implicitly encodes unicode to UTF-8",
>> which will be clearer to most people.
>
>Yes, done in r87559
You still have two words swapped. You changed it to
no longer encodes implicitly unicode
but it
g to be maintaining 2.7 for a while, this is
a workflow problem that we *must* solve to make the hg transition
worthwhile. I have no doubt that we will, but I also have no doubt we
need to *solve* it, not just wave our hands. Many thanks to Georg and
Djirkan for
all supports. In other words,
a user of concurrent.futures really needs to tweak their FreeBSD install
to make in fully functional.
There should be a way (through sysctl, presumably) to query the maximum
number of semaphores and skip the relevant tests on that basis.
--
R. David Murray
On Thu, 30 Dec 2010 14:42:48 +0900, "Stephen J. Turnbull"
wrote:
> R. David Murray writes:
>
> > We merge bug fixes to 2.7 on a routine basis. It is the rule rather
> > than the exception, by a long shot.
>
> For bugfixes, of course it's routine. I un
hat it
> > is a SMOP is a concern :)
>
> Sure, but in this crowd, I wouldn't waste a good worry on this
> particular SMOP.
Talent is one thing, available time, as you pointed out about yourself,
is a different matter.
I'm confident we can make this all work. The only qu
sue numbers). Whoops, two of those are mine. I am still
> learning and will try to remember to include it in both log messages and
> NEWS entries.
Heh. I think two of them were mine, and I'm supposed to know better by now.
--
R. David Murray www.b
you are still relatively new to
Python coding it may take longer to do the necessary research to be able
to write the patch).
If you like you can also come hang out on the #python-dev IRC channel
on freenode, where a number of the core developers and other folks
hang out and discuss issues (am
en
out-of-range values were passed to the CRT that other platforms
accepted.
--
R. David Murray www.bitdance.com
___
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
Unsub
On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 08:33:42 +, Mark Summerfield
wrote:
> from ..Graphics import Xpm
> SVG = 1
>
> I can do the relative import with Python 3.0 and 3.1 but not with
> 3.2rc1:
What about 3.1.3? I wonder if it is related to this issue:
http://bugs.python.org/issue79
new contributor isn't in general going to know when a small change
is controversial without asking *somewhere*, be it a mailing list or
the tracker. Searching the tracker to make sure it hasn't already been
proposed and rejected is, of course, a good id
g and fix that script. Martin hasn't had time to do it,
and I haven't had time to learn enough about rietveld to try.
Getting set up to test tracker patches is distinctly non-trivial,
which is probably why very few people work on it.
--
R. Davi
are not web developers) avoid XML whenever possible, and when
we do have to deal with it we tend to abstract it behind easier to work
with Python code. The obvious exception to that would be web templating
languages, but I personally prefer to avoid those, as well
s and recompile.
I imagine at least some of this is already covered in the dev guide
(I haven't made time to review it yet). If any of it is unclear
to you, please provide feedback so we can improve the guide (which
is new).
--
R. David Murray www.
ils2 component is newly added.
(Antoine: FYI, the place this is edited is http://bugs.python.org/component,
and I don't know anything more than what is explained on that scree :).
--
R. David Murray www.bitdance.com
y using "If every character is a digit, then it is treated as an
> integer, otherwise it is used as a string".
Perhaps you are thinking of http://bugs.python.org/issue7951. Not
directly on point, but related.
--
R. David Murray
ory
instances intact). With bazaar I got in trouble trying to do that,
because the interrelationship between the working copy directories
(and their subsets of the repo?) and the master repo(?) was not clear.
I never did figure out how to make it work, I ended up st
On Tue, 01 Mar 2011 16:26:05 -0500, Eric Smith wrote:
> On 3/1/2011 4:19 PM, Kerrick Staley wrote:
> > Hello,
> > There is a need for the default Python2 install to place a symlink at
> > /usr/bin/python2 that points to /usr/bin/python, or for the
> > documentation to recommend that packagers ensu
ycle management, but I don't
think there is any *fix* other than more people. So, doing followup after
sprints/bug days to help keep contributor enthusiasm going and get some of
them converted into committers is perhaps the best "fix"
other choice, it should provide a /usr/bin/python2 symlink.
Otherwise, it is going to be getting bug reports from users asking
why XYZ script doesn't run.
In short, I don't see any *downside* to providing a /usr/bin/python2
symlink.
--
R. David Murray
t
about this issue before, it is probably worth mentioning sys.executable
somewhere (a footnote?).
But another issue here (and this speaks against the proposal of not
shipping a /usr/bin/python link) is that it is quite possible to write
a script that will run on either python2 or python3.
On Fri, 04 Mar 2011 07:03:08 -0800, Westley =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mart=EDnez?=
wrote:
> On Fri, 2011-03-04 at 00:54 -0800, Aaron DeVore wrote:
> > On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 11:44 PM, Kerrick Staley
> > wrote:
> > > That way, if the sysadmin does decide to replace the installed "python"
> > > file, he ca
s on it won't run on a vanilla
user-install of 2.7.1 or 2.7. But how likely is that scenario compared
to the scenario where a script written for another distro fails to run
because /usr/bin/python2 doesn't exist? I think the balance of the
est way to find them (if
they aren't ignored).
Or if there's some way to configure my personal .hgrc to ignore
those particular ignore lines, that would be fine too :)
--
R. David Murray www.bitdance.com
___
do a rebuild after...and
all of that just takes too long :)
I guess I have some hg hacking in my future, unless someone has already
written extensions for this stuff.
--
R. David Murray www.bitdance.com
___
Python-Dev ma
olor sit amet
> [python-checkins] devguide: Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet
> [python-checkins] devguide (hg_migration): Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet
>
> What we have isn't bad, but I agree with Benjamin that it could be better.
I don't feel strongly about it either way.
--
R. David Mu
801 - 900 of 1206 matches
Mail list logo
