On 05Oct2011 21:33, Terry Reedy wrote:
| On 10/5/2011 8:07 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
| >On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 10:55:07 +1100 Cameron Simpson wrote:
| >>Equally, why on earth are you running tests as root!?!?!?!?! Madness.
| >>It's as bad as compiling stuff as root etc etc. A
On 06Oct2011 04:26, Glyph wrote:
| On Oct 5, 2011, at 10:46 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote:
| > Surely VERY FEW tests need to be run as root, and they need careful
| > consideration. The whole thing (build, full test suite) should
| > not run as root.
|
| This is news to me - is most of P
On 07Oct2011 12:46, Andrew Bennetts wrote:
| On Fri, Oct 07, 2011 at 08:27:01AM +1100, Cameron Simpson wrote:
| […]
| > | >> running buildbot tests as root does not reflect the experience of
| > | >> non-root users. It seems some tests need to be run both ways just for
|
On 07Oct2011 13:42, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
| Cameron Simpson wrote:
| >On 06Oct2011 04:26, Glyph wrote:
| >| On Oct 5, 2011, at 10:46 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote:
| >| > Surely VERY FEW tests need to be run as root, and they need careful
| >| > consideration. The whole
uld be different security
scopes/zones/levels: different users or different VMs. Andrew's
suggestion of a VM-for-tests sounds especially good.
And that I think the as-root tests suite shouldn't run unless the
not-root test suite passes.
Cheers,
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Cameron Simpson DoD#743
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On 07Oct2011 06:50, Glyph wrote:
| On Oct 7, 2011, at 6:40 AM, Cameron Simpson wrote:
| > I think that the build and the tests should be different security
| > scopes/zones/levels: different users or different VMs. Andrew's
| > suggestion of a VM-for-tests sounds especially go
tant that all
| tests pass when run as a *non-admin* user.
I'm pretty sure that's what Terry meant; if these apps were tested non-admin
they wouldn't need to run as "admin (without an obvious good reason".
Cheers,
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Cameron Simpson DoD#743
http://w
, travelling laptop) in my hgbox script.
The hgrc says:
[merge-patterns]
timesheets-cameron/2* = merge-dumb
dailylog-cameron/2*/[A-Z]* = merge-dumb
so it is easy to specify a particular tool to merge particular files.
Cheers,
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Cameron Simpson DoD#743
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|
| so it is easy to specify a particular tool to merge particular files.
Oh yes, the associated clause:
[merge-tools]
merge-dumb.args = $local $other > $output
to specify how merge-dumb is invoked.
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Cameron Simpson DoD#743
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I was gratified
ne
I come to this late, but if we're going after the docs...
At the above link one finds this text:
This assures that files are flushed [...]
It does not. It _ensures_ that files are flushed. The doco style "affirmative
tone" _assures_. The coding practice _ensures_!
Pedanticly,
Admittedly starting with "python2.*" in the same directory, but in
principle in other places. Arbitrary other places.
IMO a symlink is far and away the better choice in this situation.
Cheers,
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Cameron Simpson DoD#743
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I need your clot
ally hint at preferred approaches. The
new new formatting is a deliberate Python change. Without some
rationale/editorial it flies in the face of the "one obvious way to do
things" notion. It shouldn't be overdone, but neither should it be
absent.
Cheers,
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Cameron Simpson DoD#74
call? The caller doesn't necessarily know anything about the
loggers in play, so if a logger sprouts different message formating
syntax the caller is hosed.
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A Master is someone who started before you di
/wall-time.html (while yours matches
| #2 :-).
I think this also. A "wallclock()" function that did not return real world
elapsed time seconds would be misleading or at least disconcerting.
| Maybe it could be called realtime()?
"elapsedtime()?" It is getting a bit long though.
C
2607515/screenshots/argparse-old1.png
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That's just the sort of bloody stupid name they would choose.
- Reginald Mitchell, designer of the Spitfire
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Py
ut the need for "T", but it
should not be the base facility offered. The base should let people
request their feature set and inspect what is supplied.
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Time is nature's way of keeping everything from happening at
On 30Mar2012 15:21, Guido van Rossum wrote:
| On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote:
| > Given the subtlety sought for various purposes, people should be
| > calling:
| > T = time.getclock(flags)
| > and then later calling:
| > T.now()
| > to get their float
nt bikeshedding in a simple interface and without
constraining user choices to "what we thought of, or what we thought
likely".
Cheers,
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Cameron Simpson DoD#743
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Availability: Samples Q1/97
Volume H2/97
So, it's vapor right now, b
to integrate it into the PEP. A PEP should list all alternatives!
Surely.
The only updates I can see are to provide the flat interface
(instead of via clock-object indirection) and the missing hires_clock()
and monotonic_clock() convenience methods.
I'll do th
clock() to hires_clock(0 for
consistency.
Cheers,
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Q: How does a hacker fix a function which doesn't work for all of the elements
in its domain?
A: He changes the domain.
- Rich Wareham
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he desired coarse flags, inspecting each closely for precision
or whatever. Easy enough to tweak get_clock() to take an optional
all_clocks=False parameter to return all matching clocks in an iterable
instead of (the first match or None). Or the user could reach directly
for one of the clock lists
be, internally at least, multiple lists for quality of
returned result
- there should be a way to iterate over the available clocks, probably
via an all_clocks paramater instead of a public list name
Cheers,
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Cameron Simpson DoD#743
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There is hop
happily change T_HIRES to HIRES and so forth. They're hard to
type and read at present. The prefix is a hangover from old C coding habits,
with no namespaces.
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If you don't live on the edge, you're takin
27;t ask me to find them, this thread is huge.
The idea of falling back to different clocks on the fly on different
calls got a bit of a rejection I thought. A recipe for clock
inconsitency whatever the failings of the current clock.
Cheers,
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Cameron Simpson DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshost
ead:
clock = get_clock(MONOTONIC|HIRES) or get_clock(MONOTONIC)
If the symbol names are not the horribleness, can you qualify what API
you would like more?
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We had the experience, but missed the meaning.
On 03Apr2012 09:03, Mark Lawrence wrote:
| On 03/04/2012 07:03, Cameron Simpson wrote:
| > On 03Apr2012 07:51, Lennart Regebro wrote:
| > | I like the aim of letting the user control what clock it get, but I
| > | find this API pretty horrible:
| > |
| > |>clock = get
On 03Apr2012 09:07, Ethan Furman wrote:
| Lennart Regebro wrote:
| > On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 08:03, Cameron Simpson wrote:
| >> clock = get_clock(MONOTONIC|HIRES) or get_clock(MONOTONIC)
| >>
| >> If the symbol names are not the horribleness, can you qualify what API
| &
s you outline),
which _not_ offer it? Offering steady() provides no way for the user to
ask for higher guarentees.
Cheers,
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Cameron Simpson DoD#743
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But in our enthusiasm, we could not resist a radical overhaul of the
system, in which all of its major w
ery I'd decide it was not steady enough and choose not to rely on
it. (Or print all results output in blinking red text:-)
Cheers,
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http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/
186,282 miles per second - Not just a good idea, It's the Law!
On 03Apr2012 15:08, Ethan Furman wrote:
| Cameron Simpson wrote:
| > get_clock already has two arguments - you can optionally hand it a clock
| > list - that's used by monotonic_clock() and hires_clock().
|
| def get_clock(*flags, *, clocklist=None):
I presume that bare "*,&quo
On 04Apr2012 09:53, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
| Lennart Regebro wrote:
| > On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 08:03, Cameron Simpson wrote:
| >> clock = get_clock(MONOTONIC|HIRES) or get_clock(MONOTONIC)
| >> If the symbol names are not the horribleness, can you qualify what API
| &g
ly found a revision independent URL on bitbucket.)
| - define flags of all clocks listed in the PEP 418: clocks used in
| the pseudo-code of time.steady and time.perf_counter, and maybe also
| time.time
I'll make one. It will take a little while. Will post again when ready. At
present th
versely, monotonic() ("gimme the time!") and indeed time() should
raise an exception if there is no clock. They're, for want of a word,
"live" functions you would routinely embed in a calculation.
So not so much a straw man as a relevant illuminating example.
--
Cameron
_clocks()
for enumeration, that I should stuff into the code).
Cheers,
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Cameron Simpson DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/
Q: How many user support people does it take to change a light bulb?
A: We have an exact copy of the light bulb here and it seems to be
working fine. Can you te
to know, or a big glaring negative guarrentee in the docs
and on platforms without a system monotonic clock you might get a clock
with weird (but monotonic!) behaviours if you use the fallback.
Cheers,
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Cameron Simpson DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/
Tachyon: A gluon that's no
sensitivity, forced indents), ubiquitous exceptions, limited
| syntax of lambdas and absence of code blocks (read - forced functions),
| etc.
But exceptions are NOT ubiquitous, nor should they be. They're a very
popular and often apt way to handle certain circumstances, that's all.
--
Cameron
topic, sometimes months and years.
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Cameron Simpson DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/
Sam Jones on the Nine Types of User:
Frying Pan/Fire Tactician - "It didn't work with the data set we had, so I
fed in my aunt's recipe for key lime p
ck() in signature, but returning all matches instead
of just the first one).
Cheers,
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Cameron Simpson DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/
>From the EXUP mailing list ...
Wayne Girdlestone :
WG> Let's say there are no Yamaha's or Kawa's in the world.
Stevey Racer :
S
locks. Especially if they were
compatible in API with whatever clock objects the core time module
clocks used, so that a user _could_ add them into the pick-a-clock
decision easily.
Cheers,
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Cameron Simpson DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/
I'd be careful who you call sma
. Otherwise they are steady,
if the runner's speed is always sufficiently close to the flag speed
(this threshold and the criteria for measuring it as subject to debate,
forming policy).
And "high resolution" has its own flavours, though generally less
contentious.
Cheers,
--
Cameron S
On 06Apr2012 00:27, Victor Stinner wrote:
| Le 06/04/2012 00:17, Cameron Simpson a écrit :
| > This is where the bitmap approach can be less confusing - the docstring
| > says "The returned clock shall have all the requested flags". It is at
| > least very predictable.
|
| By
OSIX says:
The time() function shall return the value of time in seconds since
the Epoch.
and the epoch is a date. So UNIX time() should be a wall clock.
Python "help(time.time)" says:
Return the current time in seconds since the Epoch.
So I think it should also be a wall clock b
On 06Apr2012 13:14, Greg Ewing wrote:
| Cameron Simpson wrote:
| > A monotonic clock never returns t0 > t1 for t0, t1 being two adjacent
| > polls of the clock. On its own it says nothing about steadiness or
| > correlation with real world time.
|
| No, no, no.
| This is the strict
ord. "monotonic" alone is such a word, and means just one thing.
"monotonic clock" means _more_, but isn't always a requirement; "steady
clock" seems more commonly wanted.
Except of course that some participants say "steady clock" is a
nonsensical term.
--
C
On 06Apr2012 14:31, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
| Cameron Simpson wrote:
| > | The main reason to use the word "monotonic clock" to refer to the
| > | second concept is that POSIX does so, but since Mac OS X, Solaris,
| > | Windows, and C++ have all avoided following
ll negatives. If steady implies monotonic and people
| agree that that is so, I'm happy too, and happy that steady is a better
| aspiration than merely monotonic.
I've had some sleep. _Of course_ steady implies monotonic, or it
wouldn't steadily move forwards.
--
Cameron Simpson DoD
otonic clock" against which Greg Ewing railed.
And why? For one thing, because one can't inspect its metadata to find
out what it does.
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http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/
Tens of thousands of messages, hundreds of points of view. It was not called
the Net
On 06Apr2012 20:25, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
| Cameron Simpson wrote:
| > My core objective was to allow users to query for clocks, and ideally
| > enumerate and inspect all clocks. Without the caller having platform
| > specific knowledge.
|
| Clocks *are* platform specific -- not
On 06Apr2012 17:30, Glenn Linderman wrote:
| On 4/6/2012 4:11 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote:
| > Another alternative is the public lists-of-clocks.
|
| After watching this thread with amusement and frustration, amusement
| because it is so big, and so many people have so many different
| opini
id this. It ran in seconds since the epoch (in its case, start of
01jan1970 GMT). Printing dates and timestamps to humans needed daylight
saving knowledge etc.
Cheers,
--
Cameron Simpson DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/
Stan Malyshev wrote:
| You're dragging a peg in a blind hair
wristwatch (oh, the days of wrist
watches:-) synched to an atomic clock. By walking 4 metres down the hall
from my office to peer into the window of the room with the atomic
clock:-)
Cheers,
--
Cameron Simpson DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/
Knox's 386 is slick.Fox in
...
I've started on this, see above.
Victor Stinner wrote:
| | - define flags of all clocks listed in the PEP 418: clocks used in
| | the pseudo-code of time.steady and time.perf_counter, and maybe also
| | time.time
|
| I'll make one. It will take a little while.
?
I don't think it is confusing given some more context; to me it would
usually be a Big Clue that the internal supposedly-wallclock got a big
adjustment between log timestamps. If that shouldn't happen it may be
confusing or surprising...
Cheers,
--
Cameron Simpson DoD#743
http:/
Am I going to the wrong place to learn about these functions?
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Cameron Simpson DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/
I distrust a research person who is always obviously busy on a task.
- Robert Frosch, VP, GM Research
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. But finding the accuracy seems harder than one would like.
--
Cameron Simpson DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/
Thomas R. Collins wrote
> This is NOT alt.peeves, as I previously suspected, but
>alt.talk-about-what-you-want-but-sooner-or-later-you'll-get-flamed.
alt.peeves
ath) works in (for
example, nanoseconds)
- precision is the effective precision of the results, for example
milliseconds
I'd say people would care if they knew, and mostly care about
"precision".
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Cameron Simpson DoD#743
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On 18Apr2012 00:18, Chris Angelico wrote:
| On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 2:48 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote:
| > On 16Apr2012 01:25, Victor Stinner wrote:
| > | I suppose that most people don't care that "resolution" and
| > | "precision" are different things.
| >
|
On 17Apr2012 08:35, R. David Murray wrote:
| On Tue, 17 Apr 2012 14:48:22 +1000, Cameron Simpson wrote:
| > On 16Apr2012 01:25, Victor Stinner wrote:
| > | I suppose that most people don't care that "resolution" and
| > | "precision" are different things
mentation uses .resolution as the name for the metadata specifying
the fineness of the OS call API (not the accuracy of the clock). So I
would like to adjust my metadata to match and send Vicotr updated code
for the snapshot he has in the PEP.
Cheers,
--
Cameron Simpson DoD#743
http://www.csk
ut I think "adjusted" is fine. As in "this clock
| is adjusted (occasionally)".
-1 on "adjustable". That suggests the user can adjust it, not that the
OS may adjust it.
+1 on "adjusted" over "is_adjusted".
--
Cameron Simpson DoD#743
http://www.cs
depends on context. Reach for the doco.
Of course, in the context of the PEP means "may be adjusted by exterior clock
maintenance like NTP, and in fact this may have already happened". I am
unhappy with that filled with underscores and used as the name:-(
Cheers,
--
Cameron S
is the meaning
in the context of the PEP.
Cheers,
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http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/
I'm not making any of this up you know. - Anna Russell
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s
| and confusing (it has nothing to do with POSIX errnos).
It is EIO ("I/O error"), and not inappropriate for a communictions failure.
I don't think POSIX prohibits other library functions from setting errno,
either.
Cheers,
--
Cameron Si
On 27May2012 11:29, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
| On Sun, 27 May 2012 12:00:57 +1000
| Cameron Simpson wrote:
| > On 26May2012 21:28, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
| > | You'll note there is still a "Errno 5" in that error message; I don't
| > | really know what to do with it. Ha
t back are dropped (special hack - drop inbound
from the list address)
This mechanical approach would get you access control to block spam to
the bat-signal and send alerts to the other lists, and send discussion
back to python-dev.
Cheers,
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Cameron Simpson
Nothing is impossible for the man wh
test is strong (at least at the time of the test) and the other is weak.
So I'd be +0.5 for making the docs more clear that True is reliable and
False may merely mean "could not access".
And -1 on changing the semantics; I think they are correct.
Cheers,
--
Cameron Simpson
Again
IO what you normally do is use number
| returned from the write call to make next call and try to write the
| remaining part.
|
| How is this supposed to work with writelines? What is the caller supposed to
do?
I'd expect writelines to include such logic within itself, personally.
--
Cameron S
uot;standard" names like "python3.4", maybe "testpy34" or something equally
short). And having made those convenience aliases, possibly even move
the test wrapper scripts our of my ~/bin depending on how widely that
get used by other higher
You're not diagnosing system misconfiguration, just
saying "I can't find stuff, and here is where I looked".
Cheers,
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Uns
On 30Dec2012 07:42, Lennart Regebro wrote:
| On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 11:55 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote:
|
| > On 29Dec2012 21:16, Lennart Regebro wrote:
| > | On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 8:04 PM, Antoine Pitrou
| > wrote:
| > | > Why should we care about that situation if we *do* pro
ted in the PEP).
Quietly breaking libraries that relied on cloexec=False being the status
quo...
The global tunable still make me feel uneasy.
I am in agreement that the general leakage of open files because cloexec
defaults to False is untidy and sometimes problematic; the tension
ly in an exciting new module
called shoot_self_in_foot or some similarly alarming name...
Cheers,
--
Cameron Simpson
That said, I'm inclined to agree that that's not necessarily a good
idea. I always wanted to write a little program that would pop up a
Mac window to ask ``I'm goi
dy an instance of _URL
len(U)# I'm still a string
U.startswith("http:")
U.scheme # eg "http"
U.hrefs # fetch content, parse as HTML, return links
Just a thought on supporting code expecting strings.
Cheers,
--
Cameron Simpson
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