[Python-Dev] API bloat

2011-02-09 Thread Mark Shannon
At sometime between versions 3.1 and the current version, 3.1.3, the API grew considerably. See http://docs.python.org/release/3.1/c-api/exceptions.html#exception-handling and http://docs.python.org/py3k/c-api/exceptions.html#exception-handling The Unicode Exception Objects section is new and se

Re: [Python-Dev] API bloat

2011-02-09 Thread Georg Brandl
Am 09.02.2011 10:09, schrieb Mark Shannon: > At sometime between versions 3.1 and the current version, 3.1.3, > the API grew considerably. > See > http://docs.python.org/release/3.1/c-api/exceptions.html#exception-handling > and > http://docs.python.org/py3k/c-api/exceptions.html#exception-handlin

Re: [Python-Dev] API bloat

2011-02-09 Thread Mark Shannon
Georg Brandl wrote: Am 09.02.2011 10:09, schrieb Mark Shannon: At sometime between versions 3.1 and the current version, 3.1.3, the API grew considerably. See http://docs.python.org/release/3.1/c-api/exceptions.html#exception-handling and http://docs.python.org/py3k/c-api/exceptions.html#except

Re: [Python-Dev] API bloat

2011-02-09 Thread Georg Brandl
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 (Not sure if your message went to python-dev too.) Am 09.02.2011 11:04, schrieb Mark Shannon: > Georg Brandl wrote: >> Am 09.02.2011 10:09, schrieb Mark Shannon: >>> At sometime between versions 3.1 and the current version, 3.1.3, >>> the API grew co

Re: [Python-Dev] API bloat

2011-02-09 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Wed, 09 Feb 2011 10:37:11 + Mark Shannon wrote: > > > > Why redundant? > > Because they are all attribute getter and setters. For example: > > PyUnicodeDecodeError_GetStart(exc, x) <=> > PyObject_GetAttr(exc, "start", x) > > This sort of redundancy seems sensible for list, tuple and suc

Re: [Python-Dev] API bloat

2011-02-09 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
Mark Shannon wrote: > The Unicode Exception Objects section is new and seemingly redundant: > http://docs.python.org/py3k/c-api/exceptions.html#unicode-exception-objects > Should this be in the public API? Those function have been in the public API since we introduced Unicode callbak error handler

Re: [Python-Dev] API bloat

2011-02-09 Thread Mark Shannon
M.-A. Lemburg wrote: Mark Shannon wrote: The Unicode Exception Objects section is new and seemingly redundant: http://docs.python.org/py3k/c-api/exceptions.html#unicode-exception-objects Should this be in the public API? Those function have been in the public API since we introduced Unicode ca

Re: [Python-Dev] API bloat

2011-02-09 Thread Nick Coghlan
On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 10:11 PM, Mark Shannon wrote: > OK, so UnicodeError_xxx is important for codecs, but surely this sort of > argument could be made for lots of things. > Don't forget that for each function added to the API, > all other implementations have to support it forever. Other implem

Re: [Python-Dev] API bloat

2011-02-09 Thread exarkun
On 12:43 pm, ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 10:11 PM, Mark Shannon wrote: OK, so UnicodeError_xxx is important for codecs, but surely this sort of argument could be made for lots of things. Don't forget that for each function added to the API, all other implementations have t

Re: [Python-Dev] API bloat

2011-02-09 Thread Benjamin Peterson
2011/2/9 : > On 12:43 pm, ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 10:11 PM, Mark Shannon wrote: >>> >>> OK, so UnicodeError_xxx is important for codecs, but surely this sort of >>> argument could be made for lots of things. >>> Don't forget that for each function added to the API,

Re: [Python-Dev] API bloat

2011-02-09 Thread Nick Coghlan
On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 11:03 PM, wrote: > On 12:43 pm, ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 10:11 PM, Mark Shannon wrote: >>> >>> OK, so UnicodeError_xxx is important for codecs, but surely this sort of >>> argument could be made for lots of things. >>> Don't forget that for ea

Re: [Python-Dev] API bloat

2011-02-09 Thread Benjamin Peterson
2011/2/9 Mark Shannon : > OK, so UnicodeError_xxx is important for codecs, but surely this sort of > argument could be made for lots of things. > Don't forget that for each function added to the API, > all other implementations have to support it forever. The C-API is about the biggest implementat

Re: [Python-Dev] API bloat

2011-02-09 Thread Michael Foord
On 09/02/2011 14:00, Benjamin Peterson wrote: 2011/2/9 Mark Shannon: OK, so UnicodeError_xxx is important for codecs, but surely this sort of argument could be made for lots of things. Don't forget that for each function added to the API, all other implementations have to support it forever. Th

Re: [Python-Dev] API bloat

2011-02-09 Thread Michael Foord
On 09/02/2011 13:59, Nick Coghlan wrote: [snip...] And, since the C API has never been anywhere near as tightly controlled as the language definition, alternative implementations are going to garner more sympathy if they restrict their concerns to the growth of the stable ABI rather than worrying

Re: [Python-Dev] API bloat

2011-02-09 Thread exarkun
On 01:59 pm, ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 11:03 PM, wrote: On 12:43 pm, ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 10:11 PM, Mark Shannon wrote: OK, so UnicodeError_xxx is important for codecs, but surely this sort of argument could be made for lots of things.

Re: [Python-Dev] API bloat

2011-02-09 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Wed, 09 Feb 2011 12:11:43 + Mark Shannon wrote: > Various others have been added: > > int Py_EnterRecursiveCall(char *where) > void Py_LeaveRecursiveCall() > int Py_ReprEnter(PyObject *object) > void Py_ReprLeave(PyObject *object) Again, they haven't been "added". They have been there for

Re: [Python-Dev] API bloat

2011-02-09 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Wed, 09 Feb 2011 14:13:11 - exar...@twistedmatrix.com wrote: > >And, since the C API has never been anywhere near as tightly > >controlled as the language definition, alternative implementations are > >going to garner more sympathy if they restrict their concerns to the > >growth of the stab

[Python-Dev] python 3.2 (fwd)

2011-02-09 Thread skip
Passing this along from webmaster. S --- Begin Message --- Not sure who to address this question to. Would you please forward it as you feel is appropriate? The python 3.2 release notes say that it compiles against sqlite "2.6". Does that mean it includes the pysqlite 2.6 module which links

Re: [Python-Dev] python 3.2 (fwd)

2011-02-09 Thread Terry Reedy
On 2/9/2011 12:32 PM, s...@pobox.com wrote: Passing this along from webmaster. It is hard to reply to an attachment rather than inline forwarded message. However, with rc1 >>> import sqlite3 >>> sqlite3.version '2.6.0' >>> sqlite3.sqlite_version '3.7.4' I added 'pysqlite' to the "What's ne

Re: [Python-Dev] API bloat

2011-02-09 Thread Martin v. Löwis
> The functions may have been add to CPython 8 years ago, but they were > added to the API when they appeared in the docs, between 3.1 and 3.1.3. > > How is the API defined, if not by the documentation? Just to stress and support Georg's explanation: the API is *not* defined through the documenta

Re: [Python-Dev] devguide: More clarifications: use the term 'working copy' and mention 'hg update'.

2011-02-09 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Wed, 09 Feb 2011 21:17:51 +0100 brett.cannon wrote: > > > -One should always work from a checkout of the CPython source code. While it > may > +One should always work from a working copy of the CPython source code. > +While it may > be tempting to work from the downloaded copy you already

Re: [Python-Dev] devguide: More clarifications: use the term 'working copy' and mention 'hg update'.

2011-02-09 Thread Brett Cannon
On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 12:29, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Wed, 09 Feb 2011 21:17:51 +0100 > brett.cannon wrote: >> >> >> -One should always work from a checkout of the CPython source code. While it >> may >> +One should always work from a working copy of the CPython source code. >> +While it may

Re: [Python-Dev] devguide: More clarifications: use the term 'working copy' and mention 'hg update'.

2011-02-09 Thread Antoine Pitrou
> > > >> -To get a read-only checkout of CPython's source, you need to checkout the > >> source > >> -code. To get a read-only checkout of > >> +To get a read-only checkout of CPython's source, you need a working copy > >> the > >> +source code. To get a read-only checkout of > > > > Why talk ab

Re: [Python-Dev] devguide: More clarifications: use the term 'working copy' and mention 'hg update'.

2011-02-09 Thread Éric Araujo
Le 09/02/2011 23:49, Brett Cannon a écrit : > On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 12:29, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >>> -To get a read-only checkout of CPython's source, you need to checkout the >>> source >>> -code. To get a read-only checkout of >>> +To get a read-only checkout of CPython's source, you need a wo

Re: [Python-Dev] devguide: Fix a silly statement.

2011-02-09 Thread Georg Brandl
Am 09.02.2011 23:58, schrieb brett.cannon: > brett.cannon pushed 7101df1bd817 to devguide: > > http://hg.python.org/devguide/rev/7101df1bd817 > changeset: 291:7101df1bd817 > branch: hg_transition > tag: tip > user:Brett Cannon > date:Wed Feb 09 14:58:17 2011 -0800 >

Re: [Python-Dev] devguide: More clarifications: use the term 'working copy' and mention 'hg update'.

2011-02-09 Thread Terry Reedy
On 2/9/2011 3:29 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: Why talk about "checkout" at all? It's an SVN/CVS/RCS term, if I'm not mistaken (even though it may occasionally be used with hg, it's a synonym of "working copy" there). I believe it harkens back to early source code control systems where one person