Re: [Python-Dev] Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicit conversions).

Neil Hodgson wrote: > M.-A. Lemburg: > > >>Unicode has the concept of combining code points, e.g. you can >>store an "é" (e with a accent) as "e" + "'". Now if you slice >>off the accent, you'll break the character that you encoded >>using combining code points. >>... >>next_(u, index) -> int

Re: [Python-Dev] AST branch is in?

Simon Burton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Is there a python interface ? Not yet. Neil ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev

Re: [Python-Dev] New codecs checked in

Martin v. Löwis wrote: > M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > > >>I had to create three custom mapping files for cp1140, koi8-u >>and tis-620. > > > Can you please publish the files you have used somewhere? They > best go into the Python CVS. Sure; I'll check in the whole build machinery I'm using for this.

Re: [Python-Dev] New codecs checked in

Martin v. Löwis wrote: > M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > >>I just left them in because I thought they wouldn't do any harm >>and might be useful in some applications. >> >>Removing them where not directly needed by the codec would not >>be a problem. > > > I think memory usage caused is measurable (I est

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 351, the freeze protocol

Josiah Carlson wrote: > Nick Coghlan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I think having dicts and sets automatically invoke freeze would be a >> mistake, >> because at least one of the following two cases would behave unexpectedly: > > I'm pretty sure that the PEP was only aslomg if one would freeze t

Re: [Python-Dev] AST branch is in?

On Tue, Oct 25, 2005 at 01:36:26PM +1000, Simon Burton wrote: > Is there a python interface ? Not yet, as far as I know. FYI, all: please see the following weblog entry for a description of the AST branch: http://www.amk.ca/diary/2005/10/the_ast_branch_lands_1 If I got anything wrong,

[Python-Dev] Reminder: PyCon 2006 submissions due in a week

The submission deadline for PyCon 2006 is now a week away. PyCon 2006 will be in Dallas, Texas, February 24-26 2006. For 2006, I'd like to see more tutorial-style talks on the program. This means that your talk doesn't have to be about something entirely new; you can show how to use a particular

Re: [Python-Dev] Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicit conversions).

Bengt Richter wrote: > At 11:43 2005-10-24 +0200, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > >>Bengt Richter wrote: >> >>>Please bear with me for a few paragraphs ;-) >> >>Please note that source code encoding doesn't really have >>anything to do with the way the interpreter executes the >>program - it's merely a way

Re: [Python-Dev] Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicitconversions).

M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > I don't follow you here. The source code encoding > is only applied to Unicode literals (you are using string > literals in your example). String literals are passed > through as-is. however, for Python 3000, it would be nice if the source-code encoding applied to the *enti

Re: [Python-Dev] Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicitconversions).

Fredrik Lundh wrote: > M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > > >>I don't follow you here. The source code encoding >>is only applied to Unicode literals (you are using string >>literals in your example). String literals are passed >>through as-is. > > > however, for Python 3000, it would be nice if the source

Re: [Python-Dev] New codecs checked in

M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > Martin v. Löwis wrote: > >>M.-A. Lemburg wrote: >> >> >> >>>I had to create three custom mapping files for cp1140, koi8-u >>>and tis-620. >> >> >>Can you please publish the files you have used somewhere? They >>best go into the Python CVS. > > > Sure; I'll check in the who

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed resolutions for open PEP 343 issues

Almost there - this is the only issue I have left on my list :) Guido van Rossum wrote: > On 10/24/05, Nick Coghlan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> However, those resolutions bring up the following issues: >> >>5 a. What exception is raised when EXPR does not have a __context__ >> method? >>

[Python-Dev] MinGW and libpython24.a

Is the instruction at http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/inst/tweak-flags.html#SECTION000622000 still relevant? I am not 100% certain I didn't make one myself, but it looks to me as though my Windows Python 2.4.1 distro came with a libpython24.a. I am asking here because it seems on

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed resolutions for open PEP 343 issues

On 10/25/05, Nick Coghlan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Almost there - this is the only issue I have left on my list :) [,,,] > > Why are you so keen on TypeError? I find AttributeError totally > > appropriate. I don't see symmetry with for-loops as a valuable > > property here. AttributeError and T

Re: [Python-Dev] New codecs checked in

M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > Done. > > In order to rebuild the codecs, cd Tools/unicode; make > then check the codecs in the created build/ subdir (e.g. > using comparecodecs.py) and copy them over to the > Lib/encodings/ directory. Thanks! Martin ___ Pytho

Re: [Python-Dev] MinGW and libpython24.a

David Abrahams wrote: > Is the instruction at > http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/inst/tweak-flags.html#SECTION000622000 > still relevant? I am not 100% certain I didn't make one myself, but > it looks to me as though my Windows Python 2.4.1 distro came with a > libpython24.a. I am

Re: [Python-Dev] Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicit conversions).

Bill Janssen wrote: > I just got mail this morning from a researcher who wants exactly what > Martin described, and wondered why the default MacPython 2.4.2 didn't > provide it by default. :-) If all he wants is to represent Deseret, he can do so in a 16-bit Unicode type, too: Python supports UTF-

Re: [Python-Dev] Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicitconversions).

Fredrik Lundh wrote: > however, for Python 3000, it would be nice if the source-code encoding applied > to the *entire* file (XML-style), rather than just unicode string literals > and (hope- > fully) comments and docstrings. As MAL explains, the encoding currently does apply to the entire file.

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 351, the freeze protocol

Nick Coghlan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Josiah Carlson wrote: > > Nick Coghlan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> I think having dicts and sets automatically invoke freeze would be a > >> mistake, > >> because at least one of the following two cases would behave unexpectedly: > > > > I'm pret

Re: [Python-Dev] MinGW and libpython24.a

"Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > David Abrahams wrote: >> Is the instruction at >> http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/inst/tweak-flags.html#SECTION000622000 >> still relevant? I am not 100% certain I didn't make one myself, but >> it looks to me as though my Windows Py

Re: [Python-Dev] Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicitconversions).

"Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Fredrik Lundh wrote: > > however, for Python 3000, it would be nice if the source-code encoding > > applied > > to the *entire* file (XML-style), rather than just unicode string literals > > and (hope- > > fully) comments and docstrings. > > As

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed resolutions for open PEP 343 issues

Guido van Rossum wrote: > It is true though that AttributeError is somewhat special. There are > lots of places (perhaps too many?) where an operation is defined using > something like "if the object has attribute __foo__, use it, otherwise > use some other approach". Some operations explicitly ch

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed resolutions for open PEP 343 issues

On 10/25/05, Eric Nieuwland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hmmm... Would it be reasonable to introduce a ProtocolError exception? And which perceived problem would that solve? The problem of Nick & Guido disagreeing in public? -- --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/) ___

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed resolutions for open PEP 343 issues

Guido van Rossum wrote: > On 10/25/05, Eric Nieuwland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Hmmm... Would it be reasonable to introduce a ProtocolError exception? > > And which perceived problem would that solve? The problem of Nick & > Guido disagreeing in public? ;-) No, that will go on in other field

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed resolutions for open PEP 343 issues

[Eric "are all your pets called Eric?" Nieuwland] > >> Hmmm... Would it be reasonable to introduce a ProtocolError exception? [Guido] > > And which perceived problem would that solve? [Eric] > It was meant to be a bit more informative about what is wrong. > > ProtocolError: lacks __enter__ or __e

[Python-Dev] PEP 343 - multiple context managers in one statement

I have a deep suspicion that this has been done to death already, but my searching ability isn't up to finding the reference. So I'll simply ask the question, and not offer a long discussion: Has the option of letting the with statement admit multiple context managers been considered (and presumab

Re: [Python-Dev] AST branch is in?

On 10/20/05, Neal Norwitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The Grammar is (was at one point at least) shared between Jython andwould allow more tools to be able to share infrastructure.  The ideais to eventually be able to have [JP]ython output the same AST totools. Hello Python-dev, My name is Frank

Re: [Python-Dev] AST branch is in?

On 10/25/05, Frank Wierzbicki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > My name is Frank Wierzbicki and I'm working on the Jython project. Does > anyone on this list know more about the history of this Grammar sharing > between the two projects? I've heard about some Grammar sharing between > Jython and Pyth

Re: [Python-Dev] Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicit conversions).

I think he was more interested in the invariant Martin proposed, that len("\U0001") should always be the same and should always be 1. Bill ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubsc

Re: [Python-Dev] Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicit conversions).

On 10/25/05, Bill Janssen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I think he was more interested in the invariant Martin proposed, that > > len("\U0001") > > should always be the same and should always be 1. Yes but why? What does this invariant do for him? -- --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.

Re: [Python-Dev] [Jython-dev] Re: AST branch is in?

Frank Wierzbicki wrote: > On 10/20/05, *Neal Norwitz* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > wrote: > > The Grammar is (was at one point at least) shared between Jython and > would allow more tools to be able to share infrastructure. The idea > is to eventually be able to h

Re: [Python-Dev] Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicitconversions).

Josiah Carlson wrote: > It seems that removing this restriction may cause serious issues, at > least in the case when using cyrillic characters in names. See recent > security issues in regards to web addresses in web browsers for the > confusion (and/or name errors) that could result in their use

Re: [Python-Dev] AST branch is in?

Guido van Rossum wrote: > On 10/25/05, Frank Wierzbicki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> My name is Frank Wierzbicki and I'm working on the Jython project. Does >>anyone on this list know more about the history of this Grammar sharing >>between the two projects? I've heard about some Grammar shar

Re: [Python-Dev] AST branch is in?

On 10/25/05, Samuele Pedroni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Your best bet is to track down Jim Hugunin and see if he remembers. > > He's jimhug at microsoft.com or jim at hugunin.net. > no. this is all after Jim, its indeed a derived effort from the CPython > own AST effort, just that we started u

Re: [Python-Dev] Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicit conversions).

Guido van Rossum wrote: > Yes but why? What does this invariant do for him? I don't know about this person, but there are a few things that don't work properly in UTF-16 mode: - the Unicode character database fails to lookup things. u"\U0001D670".isupper() gives false, but should give true

Re: [Python-Dev] Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicitconversions).

"Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Josiah Carlson wrote: > > It seems that removing this restriction may cause serious issues, at > > least in the case when using cyrillic characters in names. See recent > > security issues in regards to web addresses in web browsers for the > > co

Re: [Python-Dev] Inconsistent Use of Buffer Interface in stringobject.c

On Monday 24 October 2005 7:39 pm, Guido van Rossum wrote: > On 10/24/05, M.-A. Lemburg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Guido van Rossum wrote: > > > A concern I'd have with fixing this is that Unicode objects also > > > support the buffer API. In any situation where either str or unicode > > > is a

Re: [Python-Dev] Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicitconversions).

Josiah Carlson wrote: > "Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>Fredrik Lundh wrote: >> >>>however, for Python 3000, it would be nice if the source-code encoding >>>applied >>>to the *entire* file (XML-style), rather than just unicode string literals >>>and (hope- >>>fully) comments and

Re: [Python-Dev] Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicitconversions).

On 10/25/05, Josiah Carlson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Identically drawn glyphs are a problem, and pretending that they aren't > a problem, doesn't make it so. Right now, all possible name glyphs are > visually distinct, which would not be the case if any unicode character > could be used as a n

Re: [Python-Dev] Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicitconversions).

Josiah Carlson wrote: > And how users could say, "name error? But I typed in window.draw(PEN) as > I was told to, and it didn't work!" Ah, so the "serious issues" you are talking about are not security issues, but usability issues. I don't think extending the range of acceptable characters will

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed resolutions for open PEP 343 issues

Guido van Rossum wrote: > On 10/25/05, Nick Coghlan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Almost there - this is the only issue I have left on my list :) > [,,,] >>> Why are you so keen on TypeError? I find AttributeError totally >>> appropriate. I don't see symmetry with for-loops as a valuable >>> proper

Re: [Python-Dev] Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicitconversions).

M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > A few years ago we had a discussion about this on python-dev > and agreed to stick with ASCII identifiers for Python. I still > think that's the right way to go. I don't think there ever was such an agreement. Regards, Martin ___

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed resolutions for open PEP 343 issues

On 10/25/05, Nick Coghlan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Maybe there's a design principle in there somewhere: > >Failed duck-typing -> AttributeError (or TypeError for complex checks) >Failed instance or subtype check -> TypeError Doesn't convince me. If there are principles at work here (a

Re: [Python-Dev] Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicitconversions).

Guido van Rossum wrote: > This actually seems a killer even for allowing Unicode in comments, > which I'd otherwise favor. What do Unicode-aware apps generally do > with right-to-left characters? The Unicode standard has an elaborate definition of what should happen. There are many rules to it, bu

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 343 - multiple context managers in one statement

Paul Moore wrote: > I have a deep suspicion that this has been done to death already, but > my searching ability isn't up to finding the reference. So I'll simply > ask the question, and not offer a long discussion: > > Has the option of letting the with statement admit multiple context > managers

Re: [Python-Dev] Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicitconversions).

"Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Josiah Carlson wrote: > > And how users could say, "name error? But I typed in window.draw(PEN) as > > I was told to, and it didn't work!" > > Ah, so the "serious issues" you are talking about are not security > issues, but usability issues. Ind

Re: [Python-Dev] Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicitconversions).

On 10/25/05, Josiah Carlson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Indeed, they are similar, but_ different_ in my font as well. The trick > is that the glyphs are not different in the case of certain greek or > cyrillic letters. They don't just /look/ similar they /are identical/. Well, in the font I'm u

Re: [Python-Dev] Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicitconversions).

Guido van Rossum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 10/25/05, Josiah Carlson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Indeed, they are similar, but_ different_ in my font as well. The trick > > is that the glyphs are not different in the case of certain greek or > > cyrillic letters. They don't just /look

Re: [Python-Dev] Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicitconversions).

Martin v. Löwis: > This aspect of rendering is often not implemented, though. Web browsers > do it correctly, see > ... > GUI frameworks sometimes do it correctly, sometimes don't; most > notably, Tk has no good support for RTL text. Scintilla does a rough job with this. RTL text is displayed

Re: [Python-Dev] Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicitconversions).

Martin v. Löwis wrote: > For window.draw, people will readily understand that > they are supposed to use Latin letters. More generally, they will know > what script to use just from looking at the identifier. Would it help if an identifier were required to be made up of letters from the same alph

[Python-Dev] make testall hanging on HEAD?

At the moment, I see make testall hanging in test_timeout. In addition, test_curses is leaving the tty in a hosed state: test_crypt test_csv test_curses test_datetime test_dbm test_decimal test_decorators

Re: [Python-Dev] make testall hanging on HEAD?

ditto on the "curses" problem, but test_timeout completed just fine, at least the first time around. fedora core 4, x86_64 [GCC 4.0.1 20050727 (Red Hat 4.0.1-5)] on linux2 Jeff pgpTesSunOdI7.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Python-Dev mailing list P

Re: [Python-Dev] Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicit conversions).

M.-A. Lemburg: > You mean a slice that slices out the next ? Yes. > This sounds a lot like you'd want iterators for the various > index types. Should be possible to implement on top of the > proposed APIs, e.g. itergraphemes(u), itercodepoints(u), etc. Iterators may be helpful, but can a

Re: [Python-Dev] Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicitconversions).

Josiah Carlson wrote: > In this case it's not just a misreading, the characters look identical! > When is an 'E' not an 'E'? When it is an Epsilon or Ie. Saying what > characters will or will not be used as identifiers, when those > characters are keys on a keyboard of a specific type, is pretty

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed resolutions for open PEP 343 issues

Guido van Rossum wrote: > [Eric "are all your pets called Eric?" Nieuwland] Hmmm... Would it be reasonable to introduce a ProtocolError exception? > > [Guido] >>> And which perceived problem would that solve? > > [Eric] >> It was meant to be a bit more informative about what is wrong. >

Re: [Python-Dev] Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicitconversions).

Greg Ewing wrote: > Would it help if an identifier were required to be > made up of letters from the same alphabet, e.g. all > Latin or all Greek or all Cyrillic, but not a mixture. > Then you'd get an immediate error if you accidentally > slipped in a letter from the wrong alphabet. Not in the li

Re: [Python-Dev] Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicitconversions).

> "Josiah" == Josiah Carlson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Josiah> Indeed, they are similar, but_ different_ in my font as Josiah> well. The trick is that the glyphs are not different in Josiah> the case of certain greek or cyrillic letters. They don't Josiah> just /look/ simil