Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 2:04 PM, Steve Holden wrote: > Neil Hodgson wrote: >> Stephen J. Turnbull: >> >>> But it's very important to be able to *move* tabs across windows or >>> panes.  ... >>> In many apps, however, you would have to select the foo.c tab, close >>> it, bring up a new window, and

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Neil Hodgson wrote: > Stephen J. Turnbull: > >> But it's very important to be able to *move* tabs across windows or >> panes. ... >> In many apps, however, you would have to select the foo.c tab, close >> it, bring up a new window, and open foo.c using the long path >> (presumably with a file bro

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 5:13 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 7:23 PM, Oleg Broytman wrote: >>   Sorry for being a wet blanket but vim implements tabbed windows even in >> console (text) mode. (-: > > Oh, I know vim and emacs are actually incredibly powerful once you > learn how

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 07/15/2010 07:13 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 7:23 PM, Oleg Broytman wrote: Sorry for being a wet blanket but vim implements tabbed windows even in console (text) mode. (-: Oh, I know vim and emacs are actually incredibly powerful once you learn how to use them. I'm

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 7:23 PM, Oleg Broytman wrote: >   Sorry for being a wet blanket but vim implements tabbed windows even in > console (text) mode. (-: Oh, I know vim and emacs are actually incredibly powerful once you learn how to use them. I'm just a child of the GUI generation and believe

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 09:23:06AM +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote: > I use tabbed editors all the time (Kate, Notepad++) and find them to > be excellent. Tastes will obviously vary though, since there are even > people out there that use vim and emacs voluntarily ;) Sorry for being a wet blanket but

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Stephen J. Turnbull: > But it's very important to be able to *move* tabs across windows or > panes.  ... > In many apps, however, you would have to select the foo.c tab, close > it, bring up a new window, and open foo.c using the long path > (presumably with a file browser interface, but often eno

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Guilherme Polo writes: > Adding tabs doesn't necessarily mean a single window, you should be > able to continue using multiple windows with single tabs if that is > your preference. But it's very important to be able to *move* tabs across windows or panes. For example, in XEmacs this is a som

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

2010/7/14 Greg Ewing : > Giampaolo Rodolà wrote: >> >> One of the main problems with IDLE is the lack of tabs for editing >> multiple files within the same window. > > While tabs seem to work well for web browsing, I'm not so > sure about using them for source editing. Often I want to > display two

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Nick Coghlan wrote: I use tabbed editors all the time (Kate, Notepad++) and find them to be excellent. Tastes will obviously vary though, since there are even people out there that use vim and emacs voluntarily ;) It's probably all right if you have the ability to move tabs from one window to

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 9:26 AM, Greg Ewing wrote: > Giampaolo Rodolà wrote: >> >> One of the main problems with IDLE is the lack of tabs for editing >> multiple files within the same window. > > While tabs seem to work well for web browsing, I'm not so > sure about using them for source editing.

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Giampaolo Rodolà wrote: One of the main problems with IDLE is the lack of tabs for editing multiple files within the same window. While tabs seem to work well for web browsing, I'm not so sure about using them for source editing. Often I want to display two or more files side by side, which can

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

http://docs.python.org/dev/whatsnew/2.7.html#ttk-themed-widgets-for-tk Sorry, I realized just now that ttk is already included in Python 2.7 and 3.2. 2010/7/14 Giampaolo Rodolà : > 2010/7/14 Guilherme Polo : >> 2010/7/14 Terry Reedy : >>> On 7/14/2010 2:35 AM, Giampaolo Rodolà wrote: One

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

2010/7/14 Guilherme Polo : > 2010/7/14 Terry Reedy : >> On 7/14/2010 2:35 AM, Giampaolo Rodolà wrote: >>> >>> One of the main problems with IDLE is the lack of tabs for editing >>> multiple files within the same window. >>> Having that alone would be a great improvement. >> >> Yes, the same as tabs

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 7/14/2010 12:58 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 12:34:27 -0400 Terry Reedy wrote: So I can see that pushing to make it a business meeting would not be too welcome. What I would like is an online sprint with a temporary #python-triage channel, with at least one commit-developer

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

2010/7/14 Terry Reedy : > On 7/14/2010 2:35 AM, Giampaolo Rodolà wrote: >> >> One of the main problems with IDLE is the lack of tabs for editing >> multiple files within the same window. >> Having that alone would be a great improvement. > > Yes, the same as tabs for browsing was. > > This is first

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 11:34, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 7/14/2010 4:10 AM, Georg Brandl wrote: > > Sure, and if it was work time, we probably would do this ;). As it is >> right now, this is volunteer time, and I would say that we're entitled >> to do whatever helps us getting done the (not alwa

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 7/14/2010 2:35 AM, Giampaolo Rodolà wrote: One of the main problems with IDLE is the lack of tabs for editing multiple files within the same window. Having that alone would be a great improvement. Yes, the same as tabs for browsing was. This is firstly an unlying gui widget set issue. Tk do

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Terry Reedy wrote: > On 7/14/2010 4:10 AM, Georg Brandl wrote: > >> Sure, and if it was work time, we probably would do this ;). As it is >> right now, this is volunteer time, and I would say that we're entitled >> to do whatever helps us getting done the (not always exciting) work, >> and our IR

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 12:34:27 -0400 Terry Reedy wrote: > > So I can see that pushing to make it a business meeting would not be too > welcome. What I would like is an online sprint with a temporary > #python-triage channel, with at least one commit-developer present. It should be noted that #py

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 7/14/2010 4:10 AM, Georg Brandl wrote: Sure, and if it was work time, we probably would do this ;). As it is right now, this is volunteer time, and I would say that we're entitled to do whatever helps us getting done the (not always exciting) work, and our IRC crap talk, if that's what it is

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 14/07/2010 09:10, Georg Brandl wrote: Am 12.07.2010 00:51, schrieb Mark Lawrence: I have been attempting to fill this hole and have been faced with animosity from people who "hang out" on the python-dev IRC channel. I thought it was a complete and utter waste of space, so I don't intend goi

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Georg Brandl wrote: > Am 12.07.2010 00:51, schrieb Mark Lawrence: > >> I have been attempting to fill this hole and have been faced with >> animosity from people who "hang out" on the python-dev IRC channel. I >> thought it was a complete and utter waste of space, so I don't intend >> going ba

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Am 12.07.2010 00:51, schrieb Mark Lawrence: > I have been attempting to fill this hole and have been faced with > animosity from people who "hang out" on the python-dev IRC channel. I > thought it was a complete and utter waste of space, so I don't intend > going back. I agree with everything

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

One of the main problems with IDLE is the lack of tabs for editing multiple files within the same window. Having that alone would be a great improvement. --- Giampaolo http://code.google.com/p/pyftpdlib http://code.google.com/p/psutil ___ Python-Dev mail

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 18:20, Tal Einat wrote: > > The (hopefully) compelling arguments were others, such as the sentence > > following the one you quoted: > > > > "I think that in its current state, IDLE may still be helpful for > > learning Python, but it is more likely to drive away users who

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 19:08:07 -0400 Terry Reedy wrote: > On 7/12/2010 2:05 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: > >> What I specifically want right now is Commit Authorization Privilege, > >> especially for IDLE, > > > > Not sure who could grant that, but as far as I can: you have it. > > If I were approv

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 7/11/10 7:31 AM, Tal Einat wrote: However, I still think IDLE is not currently in a state that it should be suggested for use by beginners. Being one of those beginners... here's my $0.02 worth. IDLE being instantly available on pretty much anything I care to try my hand at python on... my

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 7/12/2010 10:49 PM, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: I've not had experience with patches from Terry. I don't think there are any in IDLE, at least not acknowledged in NEWS. You posts in the last day have told me a lot more about you. Let me introduce myself to you in turn. I have been involved wi

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 7/12/2010 6:50 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: Am 13.07.2010 00:00, schrieb Terry Reedy: On 7/12/2010 5:43 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: There should be an "Edit with IDLE" (sic) context menu item. I agree, and thought about requesting such You misunderstand. To the contrary. You misunde

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12 2010, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 7/12/2010 2:05 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: >>> What I specifically want right now is Commit Authorization Privilege, >>> especially for IDLE, >> >> Not sure who could grant that, but as far as I can: you have it. > > If I were approved to commit patche

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12 2010, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 7/12/2010 5:43 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: >> Am 12.07.2010 23:21, schrieb Terry Reedy: >>> On 7/12/2010 5:46 AM, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: >>> On Windows, IDLE opens when you right click / edit a .py. Very useful. >>> >>> On my xp machine with 3.1.2,

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 7/12/2010 2:05 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: What I specifically want right now is Commit Authorization Privilege, especially for IDLE, Not sure who could grant that, but as far as I can: you have it. If I were approved to commit patches directly, then by implication I should be able to ap

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 07/12/2010 01:21 PM, Ian Bicking wrote: On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 3:38 PM, Ron Adam mailto:r...@ronadam.com>> wrote: There might be another alternative. Both idle and pydoc are applications (are there others?) that are in the standard library. As such, they or parts of them, are

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Am 13.07.2010 00:00, schrieb Terry Reedy: > On 7/12/2010 5:43 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: >> Am 12.07.2010 23:21, schrieb Terry Reedy: >>> On 7/12/2010 5:46 AM, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: >>> On Windows, IDLE opens when you right click / edit a .py. Very useful. >>> >>> On my xp machine with 3.1.2

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 12 July 2010 23:00, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 7/12/2010 5:43 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: >> >> There should be an "Edit with IDLE" (sic) context menu item. > > I agree, and thought about requesting such, but there is not and never has > been for me that I know of. There is for me. I think what

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 12/07/2010 23:00, Terry Reedy wrote: On 7/12/2010 5:43 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: Am 12.07.2010 23:21, schrieb Terry Reedy: On 7/12/2010 5:46 AM, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: On Windows, IDLE opens when you right click / edit a .py. Very useful. On my xp machine with 3.1.2, it edit .py opens

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 7/12/2010 5:43 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: Am 12.07.2010 23:21, schrieb Terry Reedy: On 7/12/2010 5:46 AM, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: On Windows, IDLE opens when you right click / edit a .py. Very useful. On my xp machine with 3.1.2, it edit .py opens with notepad. Perhaps the installer just

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Am 12.07.2010 23:21, schrieb Terry Reedy: > On 7/12/2010 5:46 AM, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: > >> On Windows, IDLE opens when you right click / edit a .py. Very useful. > > On my xp machine with 3.1.2, it edit .py opens with notepad. Perhaps the > installer just copies forward the association from lon

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 7/12/2010 5:46 AM, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: On Windows, IDLE opens when you right click / edit a .py. Very useful. On my xp machine with 3.1.2, it edit .py opens with notepad. Perhaps the installer just copies forward the association from long ago, before IDLE was available, or at least so u

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 11:32 AM, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: > On Mon, Jul 12 2010, geremy condra wrote: > >> No offense, but I've been specifically asked not to do demos with IDLE >> because it looked 'unprofessional'. Given the constraint of working >> within tkinter that may not be something you can

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 12/07/2010 19:21, Ian Bicking wrote: On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 3:38 PM, Ron Adam > wrote: There might be another alternative. Both idle and pydoc are applications (are there others?) that are in the standard library. As such, they or parts of them, are

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 3:38 PM, Ron Adam wrote: > There might be another alternative. > > Both idle and pydoc are applications (are there others?) that are in the > standard library. As such, they or parts of them, are possibly importable > to other projects. That restricts changes because a c

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 1:44 AM, Bill Janssen wrote: > Steve, you encouraged me to try it again.  From an xterm on OS X 10.5.8, > it launches fine (long as you know where it is -- > /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/Current/bin/idle). > Seems to work OK for what it is, too.  Sam

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 11:23:04 -0400 "Kurt B. Kaiser" wrote: > > What distro are you using? Tk8.6 is still in beta. It's Mandriva 2010.1 > Still looks crummy? Bummer. Yes. > Fine, I showed it as an example of the improvement in 8.5. Most people, > I think, are using Windows or Macs. Looks d

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Stephen Hansen wrote: > On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 4:53 PM, Steve Holden wrote: > > > Stephen Hansen wrote: > > > On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 9:23 PM, Guilherme Polo > > > wrote: > > > > > > By "never had a problem" do you mean using some of the latest > > versions > > >

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12 2010, geremy condra wrote: > No offense, but I've been specifically asked not to do demos with IDLE > because it looked 'unprofessional'. Given the constraint of working > within tkinter that may not be something you can work around, but I'm > sure you can see that from a certain pe

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12 2010, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 08:12:10 -0400 > "Kurt B. Kaiser" wrote: >> > >> > Ok, I've just tried IDLE (on py3k) for the first time in years. Under >> > Linux, the look is ugly and outdated; it uses some kind of Motif-like >> > widgets. >> >> That's because

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Jul 12, 2010, at 4:34 AM, Éric Araujo wrote: >> Plus, is a useful resource >> for core developers with only a little bit of free time to do a >> review. > > Title: “Review Tickets, By Order You Should Review Them In” > I haven’t found a description of

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tal Einat wrote: >> I would like to propose removing IDLE from the standard library. >> >> I have been using IDLE since 2002 and have been doing my best to help >> maintain and further develop IDLE since 2005. > > I'm surprised by the amount of intere

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 12/07/2010 11:37, geremy condra wrote: On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 5:31 AM, Stefan Krah wrote: Jesse Noller wrote: On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 8:22 PM, geremy condra wrote: (This seems to me like an area where a judicious application of PSF funds might help; if every single bug were actively tr

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 8:12 AM, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: > On Mon, Jul 12 2010, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > >> On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 05:20:49 -0400 >> "Kurt B. Kaiser" wrote: >>> >>> I'm mystified about the comments that the GUI is ugly.  It is minimal. >>> On XP, it looks exactly like an XP window with

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 08:12:10 -0400 "Kurt B. Kaiser" wrote: > > > > Ok, I've just tried IDLE (on py3k) for the first time in years. Under > > Linux, the look is ugly and outdated; it uses some kind of Motif-like > > widgets. > > That's because Linux isn't using Tk 8.5 yet. Debian defaults to Tk 8

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12 2010, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 05:20:49 -0400 > "Kurt B. Kaiser" wrote: >> >> I'm mystified about the comments that the GUI is ugly. It is minimal. >> On XP, it looks exactly like an XP window with a simple menubar. Those >> who haven't looked at it for awhile

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 00:13:21 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote: > On 11/07/2010 19:40, "Martin v. L=F6wis" wrote: > >>> There clearly are *some* folks who care enough about IDLE to submit > >>> bug reports and fixes. How about we empower these people by giving at > >>> least one of them commit privilege

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 7:17 AM, Stefan Krah wrote: > geremy condra wrote: >> On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 5:31 AM, Stefan Krah wrote: >> > Jesse Noller wrote: >> >> On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 8:22 PM, geremy condra wrote: >> >> >>> (This seems to me like an area where a judicious application of PSF

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

geremy condra wrote: > On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 5:31 AM, Stefan Krah wrote: > > Jesse Noller wrote: > >> On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 8:22 PM, geremy condra wrote: > >> >>> (This seems to me like an area where a judicious application of PSF > >> >>> funds might help; if every > >> >>> single bug wer

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 12/07/2010 2.56, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: As for assigning bugs, I've been told to use the maintainer.rst list, so either the list is wrong, or I've had finger problems. If it's the latter I again say sorry. I see. What copy have you been using specifically? I think I need to remove myself

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 5:31 AM, Stefan Krah wrote: > Jesse Noller wrote: >> On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 8:22 PM, geremy condra wrote: >> >>> (This seems to me like an area where a judicious application of PSF >> >>> funds might help; if every >> >>> single bug were actively triaged and responded t

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

After a few keystrokes in the interactive interpreter, I got the following traceback: Traceback (most recent call last): File "Lib/idlelib/idle.py", line 11, in idlelib.PyShell.main() File "/home/antoine/py3k/__svn__/Lib/idlelib/PyShell.py", line 1420, in main root.mainloop() File

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 05:20:49 -0400 "Kurt B. Kaiser" wrote: > > I'm mystified about the comments that the GUI is ugly. It is minimal. > On XP, it looks exactly like an XP window with a simple menubar. Those > who haven't looked at it for awhile may not be aware of the recent > advances made by T

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12 2010, Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven wrote: > -On [20100712 08:26], Stephen Hansen (apt.shan...@gmail.com) wrote: >>But I, personally, would consider it a significant loss if IDLE went >>the way of the dodo or a third-party module.  > > Why would it be a significant loss if it went t

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Jesse Noller wrote: > On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 8:22 PM, geremy condra wrote: > >>> (This seems to me like an area where a judicious application of PSF funds > >>> might help; if every > >>> single bug were actively triaged and responded to, even if it weren't > >>> reviewed, and patch > >>> cont

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Am 12.07.2010 10:06, schrieb Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven: > -On [20100712 08:26], Stephen Hansen (apt.shan...@gmail.com) wrote: >> But I, personally, would consider it a significant loss if IDLE went the way >> of >> the dodo or a third-party module. > > Why would it be a significant loss if i

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

-On [20100712 08:26], Stephen Hansen (apt.shan...@gmail.com) wrote: >But I, personally, would consider it a significant loss if IDLE went the way of >the dodo or a third-party module.  Why would it be a significant loss if it went the way of a third party module? Clearly right now it's not being m

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 4:53 PM, Steve Holden wrote: > Stephen Hansen wrote: > > On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 9:23 PM, Guilherme Polo > > wrote: > > > > By "never had a problem" do you mean using some of the latest > versions > > ? Here, running "idle" from a mac term

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

> What I specifically want right now is Commit Authorization Privilege, > especially for IDLE, Not sure who could grant that, but as far as I can: you have it. Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mail

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 7/11/2010 2:40 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: Guido There clearly are *some* folks who care enough about IDLE to submit bug reports and fixes. How about we empower these people by giving at least one of them commit privileges? IDLE development has often been done by people who aren't otherwise

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 8:22 PM, geremy condra wrote: > On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 3:38 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >> On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 14:59:14 -0400 >> Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: >>> >>> Guido proposes to give someone interested in IDLE commit access, and >>> hopefully that will help in > this part

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 8:07 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote: >> >> I see. What copy have you been using specifically? I think I need to >> remove myself from these lists. >> >> Regards, >> Martin > > Hi Martin, > > Again thanks for the response. > > I've been working from this:- > http://svn.python.org/

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 8:22 PM, geremy condra wrote: > On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 3:38 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >> On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 14:59:14 -0400 >> Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: >>> >>> Guido proposes to give someone interested in IDLE commit access, and >>> hopefully that will help in > this part

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 3:38 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 14:59:14 -0400 > Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: >> >> Guido proposes to give someone interested in IDLE commit access, and >> hopefully that will help in > this particular area.  But, as I recall, at >> the last language summi

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 7:13 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote: > > Martin, > > Thanks for your response. > > IIRC Terry Reedy has already volunteered to do this, if I'm incorrect I'll > apologise right now to both of you. > > As for assigning bugs, I've been told to use the maintainer.rst list, so > eithe

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 12/07/2010 00:56, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: IIRC Terry Reedy has already volunteered to do this Apologies to Terry if this is incorrect, but I believe this to be the case. Hmm. I don't recall that happening. As for assigning bugs, I've been told to use the maintainer.rst list, so either

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

> IIRC Terry Reedy has already volunteered to do this Hmm. I don't recall that happening. > As for assigning bugs, I've been told to use the maintainer.rst list, so > either the list is wrong, or I've had finger problems. If it's the > latter I again say sorry. I see. What copy have you been u

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Stephen Hansen wrote: > On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 9:23 PM, Guilherme Polo > wrote: > > By "never had a problem" do you mean using some of the latest versions > ? Here, running "idle" from a mac terminal and trying to type: print > "hi" crashes when entering the

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Jul 11, 2010, at 5:33 PM, Georg Brandl wrote: > Honestly, how would you feel as a committer to have scores of issues assigned > to you -- as a consequence of speedy triage -- knowing that you have to invest > potentially hours of volunteer time into them, while the person doing the > triaging i

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Jul 11, 2010, at 3:19 PM, Martin v. Löwis wrote: > Unfortunately, it's often not clear what the submitter wants: does she > want to help, or want to get help? For a bug report, I often post a > message "can you provide a patch?", but sometimes, it isn't that clear. Perhaps this is the one area

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

2010/7/11 Mark Lawrence : > I can understand your frustration, but in response to an appeal from Terry > Reedy some weeks back on c.l.py I've done a substantial amount of work in > the last couple of weeks to clear outstanding issues, sadly IDLE just sits > in the pile.  Ow, but hang on a minute,  

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 11/07/2010 19:40, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: There clearly are *some* folks who care enough about IDLE to submit bug reports and fixes. How about we empower these people by giving at least one of them commit privileges? IDLE development has often been done by people who aren't otherwise contribu

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

2010/7/11 Mark Lawrence : > > I have been attempting to fill this hole and have been faced with animosity > from people who "hang out" on the python-dev IRC channel.  I thought it was > a complete and utter waste of space, so I don't intend going back.  I would > like things fixed, not a cosy littl

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 11/07/2010 23:18, Tal Einat wrote: Martin v. Löwis wrote: Initially (five years ago!) I tried to overcome these issues by improving IDLE, solving problems and adding a few key features. Without going into details, suffice to say that IDLE hasn't improved much since 2005 despite my efforts. Fo

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 11/07/2010 19:59, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: On Jul 11, 2010, at 2:37 PM, Martin v. Löwis wrote: Initially (five years ago!) I tried to overcome these issues by improving IDLE, solving problems and adding a few key features. Without going into details, suffice to say that IDLE hasn't improved m

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 07/10/2010 06:05 PM, Tal Einat wrote: Hello, I would like to propose removing IDLE from the standard library. I have been using IDLE since 2002 and have been doing my best to help maintain and further develop IDLE since 2005. In recent years IDLE has received negligible interest and atten

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

> I am aware of the situation with regard to issue reviews, but I think > with IDLE there is more going on. In other parts of the Python > codebase, a workaround for a major usability issue wouldn't normally > have taken nearly three years to resolve after a working patch was > submitted. Oh sure

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Martin v. Löwis wrote: >> Initially (five years ago!) I tried to overcome these issues by >> improving IDLE, solving problems and adding a few key features. >> Without going into details, suffice to say that IDLE hasn't improved >> much since 2005 despite my efforts. For example, see >> http://bugs

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 6:30 AM, R. David Murray wrote: > So, this is indeed an area where improvement is theoretically possible, > but I'm not sure how we get from here to there.  As you say, one option is > for the PSF to fund people to do it somehow.  (I'd be happy to be one of > those people f

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Am 11.07.2010 20:59, schrieb Glyph Lefkowitz: > > On Jul 11, 2010, at 2:37 PM, Martin v. Löwis wrote: > >>> Initially (five years ago!) I tried to overcome these issues by >>> improving IDLE, solving problems and adding a few key features. >>> Without going into details, suffice to say that IDLE

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 11/07/2010 20:47, A.M. Kuchling wrote: On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 05:22:28PM +0300, Tal Einat wrote: Initially (five years ago!) I tried to overcome these issues by improving IDLE, solving problems and adding a few key features. Without going into details, suffice to say that IDLE hasn't imp

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 13:30, R. David Murray wrote: > On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 14:59:14 -0400, Glyph Lefkowitz > wrote: >> On Jul 11, 2010, at 2:37 PM, Martin v. L=F6wis wrote: >> > I can understand that this is frustrating, but please understand that >> > this is not specific to your patches, or t

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 14:59:14 -0400, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: > On Jul 11, 2010, at 2:37 PM, Martin v. L=F6wis wrote: > > I can understand that this is frustrating, but please understand that > > this is not specific to your patches, or to IDLE. Many other patches on > > bugs.python.org remain unre

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 05:22:28PM +0300, Tal Einat wrote: > Initially (five years ago!) I tried to overcome these issues by > improving IDLE, solving problems and adding a few key features. > Without going into details, suffice to say that IDLE hasn't improved > much since 2005 despite my efforts.

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 14:59:14 -0400 Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: > > Guido proposes to give someone interested in IDLE commit access, and > hopefully that will help in > this particular area. But, as I recall, at the > last language summit there was quite a bit of > discussion about how to address th

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

> (This seems to me like an area where a judicious application of PSF > funds might help; if every single bug were actively triaged and > responded to, even if it weren't reviewed, and patch contributors were > directed to take specific steps to elicit a response or a review, the > fact that patch

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Jul 11, 2010, at 2:37 PM, Martin v. Löwis wrote: >> Initially (five years ago!) I tried to overcome these issues by >> improving IDLE, solving problems and adding a few key features. >> Without going into details, suffice to say that IDLE hasn't improved >> much since 2005 despite my efforts.

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

>> There clearly are *some* folks who care enough about IDLE to submit >> bug reports and fixes. How about we empower these people by giving at >> least one of them commit privileges? IDLE development has often been >> done by people who aren't otherwise contributing to the core, and we >> surely s

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

> Initially (five years ago!) I tried to overcome these issues by > improving IDLE, solving problems and adding a few key features. > Without going into details, suffice to say that IDLE hasn't improved > much since 2005 despite my efforts. For example, see > http://bugs.python.org/issue1529142, wh

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Tal Einat wrote: > Although several people say that they think having IDLE in the stdlib > is important, the fact is that IDLE is considered quite unimportant by > most of the Python community. Having IDLE in the stdlib may be > convenient for a few people, but most never use it and don't care >

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Guido van Rossum wrote: >David Beazley wrote: >> >>> I would like to propose removing IDLE from the standard library. >>> >> >> -1000. From the Python training department, I would like to say that this >> would be a horrible idea. > >Right. IDLE fits a niche. It's never going to be the world's b

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 11:57 AM, Tal Einat wrote: >> I would like to propose removing IDLE from the standard library. >> >> I have been using IDLE since 2002 and have been doing my best to help >> maintain and further develop IDLE since 2005. > > I'm surprised by the amount of interest this has ra

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