On August 16, 2015 at 11:26:08 AM, Steven D'Aprano (st...@pearwood.info) wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 10:52:00AM -0400, Donald Stufft wrote:
>
> > > So what is the benefit of including wheel with ensurepip?
> >
> > pip has an optional dependency on wheel, if you install that optional
> > de
On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 10:52:00AM -0400, Donald Stufft wrote:
> > So what is the benefit of including wheel with ensurepip?
>
> pip has an optional dependency on wheel, if you install that optional
> dependency than you’ll get the implicit wheel cache enabled by default
> which can drastically
On August 16, 2015 at 10:41:42 AM, Steven D'Aprano (st...@pearwood.info) wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 02:17:09PM +0100, Paul Moore wrote:
>
> > Sorry I'm late to this, but I would very much like to see wheel
> > installed with ensurepip on at least Windows.
>
> I seem to be missing someth
On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 02:17:09PM +0100, Paul Moore wrote:
> Sorry I'm late to this, but I would very much like to see wheel
> installed with ensurepip on at least Windows.
I seem to be missing something critical to this entire discussion.
As I understand it, ensurepip is *only* intended to boo
On 8 August 2015 at 04:53, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>> I do however think it would make ensurepip itself better, so I’m not dead
>> set against it, mostly just worried about ramifications.
>
> I'd advise against letting concerns about Linux distro politics hold
> you back from making ensurepip as good
On 8 August 2015 at 02:12, Donald Stufft wrote:
>
>> On Aug 7, 2015, at 11:13 AM, Chris Barker - NOAA Federal
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Please don't add extra pain for purity and
>>> make sure that ensurepip installs "pip" and
>>> not "slow pip until you install wheel in the venv".
>>
>>
>> This is a rea
> On Aug 7, 2015, at 11:13 AM, Chris Barker - NOAA Federal
> wrote:
>
>> Please don't add extra pain for purity and
>> make sure that ensurepip installs "pip" and
>> not "slow pip until you install wheel in the venv".
>
>
> This is a really good point -- other than purity, what is the downsid
>Please don't add extra pain for purity and
>make sure that ensurepip installs "pip" and
>not "slow pip until you install wheel in the venv".
This is a really good point -- other than purity, what is the downside?
Arguably, the only reason setuptools, pip, and wheel are not in the
standard libra
> I'm confident we're
> going to want a "support prebuilt wheels only" installation option
> downstream in the Linux distro world -
Interesting-- so move to a Python specific binary distribution option
-- rather than using rm or deb packages?
Doesn't lead to a dependency heck? I.e no way to expre
Le 7 août 2015 00:51, "Robert Collins" a écrit :
> So - I was in a talk at PyCon AU about conda[*], and the author
> believed they were using the latest pip with all the latest caching
> features, but their experience (16 minute installs) wasn't that.
If an expert user is unaware of having to exp
On 7 August 2015 at 17:20, Donald Stufft wrote:
> I’m not sure if —no-build-tools make sense, since I plan on removing
> setuptools from ensurepip completely once pip can implicitly install it. PEP
> 453 explicitly called out the fact that setuptools was installed as an
> implementation detail
> On Aug 7, 2015, at 3:02 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>
> On 7 August 2015 at 08:50, Robert Collins wrote:
>> Certainly the framing of ensurepip as 'this installs pip' is going to
>> be confusing and misleading if it doesn't install pip the way
>> get-pip.py (or virtualenv) install pip, leading to
On 7 August 2015 at 08:50, Robert Collins wrote:
> Certainly the framing of ensurepip as 'this installs pip' is going to
> be confusing and misleading if it doesn't install pip the way
> get-pip.py (or virtualenv) install pip, leading to confusion such as
> that.
>
> Given the inconsequential impa
On 7 August 2015 at 03:28, Donald Stufft wrote:
>
>> On Aug 6, 2015, at 5:04 AM, Robert Collins wrote:
>>
>> Yes: but the logic chain from 'its a bad idea' to 'we don't include
>> wheel but we do include setuptools' is the bit I'm having a hard time
>> with.
>
>
> In my opinion, it’s the severity
> On Aug 6, 2015, at 5:04 AM, Robert Collins wrote:
>
> Yes: but the logic chain from 'its a bad idea' to 'we don't include
> wheel but we do include setuptools' is the bit I'm having a hard time
> with.
In my opinion, it’s the severity of how crippled their experience is without
that particu
On 6 August 2015 at 19:04, Robert Collins wrote:
> On 6 August 2015 at 15:04, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> When I consider the harm to a production pipeline that using
> setuptools can cause (in that it triggers easy_install, and
> easy_install has AFAIK none of the security improvements pip has added
>
On 6 August 2015 at 15:04, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> On 6 August 2015 at 09:29, Victor Stinner wrote:
>> Le 5 août 2015 17:12, "Nick Coghlan" a écrit :
>>> A hard dependency on wheel wouldn't fit into the same category - when
>>> folks are using a build pipeline to minimise the installation
>>> foot
On 6 August 2015 at 09:29, Victor Stinner wrote:
> Le 5 août 2015 17:12, "Nick Coghlan" a écrit :
>> A hard dependency on wheel wouldn't fit into the same category - when
>> folks are using a build pipeline to minimise the installation
>> footprint on production systems, the wheel package itself
Le 5 août 2015 17:12, "Nick Coghlan" a écrit :
> A hard dependency on wheel wouldn't fit into the same category - when
> folks are using a build pipeline to minimise the installation
> footprint on production systems, the wheel package itself has no
> business being installed anywhere other than d
On 6 August 2015 at 00:10, Donald Stufft wrote:
> Just a small correction, in general setuptools does blur that line, but
> for pip itself setuptools is completely a build time dependency which
> isn’t *technically* any different than our dependency on wheel. We work
> perfectly fine without it in
On August 5, 2015 at 10:01:50 AM, Nick Coghlan (ncogh...@gmail.com) wrote:
>
> setuptools is in the situation where because it also includes
> pkg_resources, it blurs the line between "build time" and "run time"
> dependency. While it would be nice to split that and have a "just
> pkg_resources" ru
On 3 August 2015 at 11:06, Donald Stufft wrote:
>
> On August 2, 2015 at 8:47:46 PM, Robert Collins (robe...@robertcollins.net)
> wrote:
>> So, pip 7.0 depends on the wheel module for its automatic wheel
>> building, and installing pip from get-pip.py, or the bundled copy in
>> virtualenvs will a
On August 2, 2015 at 8:47:46 PM, Robert Collins (robe...@robertcollins.net)
wrote:
> So, pip 7.0 depends on the wheel module for its automatic wheel
> building, and installing pip from get-pip.py, or the bundled copy in
> virtualenvs will automatically install wheel.
>
> But ensurepip doesn't
So, pip 7.0 depends on the wheel module for its automatic wheel
building, and installing pip from get-pip.py, or the bundled copy in
virtualenvs will automatically install wheel.
But ensurepip doesn't bundle wheel, so we're actually installing a
slightly crippled pip 7.1, which will lead to folk h
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