Executive summary:
Larry admits that doing an early alpha is a plausible experiment, he
just has reasons not to do it himself. OTOH, Nick has a reason for
wanting to do it in *this* release cycle.
It's Larry's call; we should restrict ourselves to giving him the
information he requests to make a
In article
<20121003203328.horde.za5_tqgzi1vqbit43mhb...@webmail.df.eu>,
mar...@v.loewis.de wrote:
> I wouldn't mind having alpha 1 in April 2013, and alpha 2 in October 2013.
> I share Larry's skepticism, and actually fear that it may confuse users
> (which find that they test something complete
On 10/3/2012 12:02 PM, Larry Hastings wrote:
What it really comes down to: I'm a first-time RM, and I lack the
courage/wisdom to overrule what appears to be a reasonable status quo.
I feel I don't have to defend the decision to maintain the status quo; I
feel instead you have to make a case for
mar...@v.loewis.de writes:
> We once had nightly builds of the Windows installers. It required a
> dedicated buildbot operator, since the process tended to break.
For what it's worth, I'd be willing to try to re-institute the daily
Windows installer builds if they'd see usage, but I suspect I'll
On 03.10.12 20:10, MRAB wrote:
I downloaded the alphas to test the support for PEP 393 I'd added to
the regex module.
Hardly alpha would be useful to you if it released before PEP 393
implementation.
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Hello :)
That PEP is indeed pining to the fjords. I may be able to contribute (and
hopefully I can with the preliminary research and
talking-to-people-about-what-they-want that I've already done that maybe
hasn't made it into the draft PEP versions), but I can not currently spare
the cycles to car
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On 03/10/12 17:27, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> I received a fair number of complaints from people that wanted to
> experiment with yield from, but couldn't, because the first alpha
> wasn't out yet and they weren't sufficiently interested to go to
> the ef
Am 04.10.2012 12:49, schrieb Dirkjan Ochtman:
> On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Christian Heimes
> wrote:
>> Two days ago NIST announced the SHA-3 contest winner. My wrapper of
>> keccak https://bitbucket.org/tiran/pykeccak/ is almost ready and just
>> needs some cleanup and more tests. Once it'
On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Christian Heimes wrote:
> Two days ago NIST announced the SHA-3 contest winner. My wrapper of
> keccak https://bitbucket.org/tiran/pykeccak/ is almost ready and just
> needs some cleanup and more tests. Once it's done I'll remove the Python
> 3.2 and 2.x compatibil
Am 03.10.2012 13:54, schrieb Larry Hastings:
> As for the rest of it, my understanding was that there is no longer any
> great plan written in the stars for Python releases. Python releases
> are comprised of whatever features people propose, implement, and are
> willing to support, that they can
Am 04.10.2012 um 03:38 schrieb R. David Murray :
>>> Other proposed large-scale changes:
>>> [...]
>>> * A standard event-loop interface (PEP by Jim Fulton pending)
>>
>> Really? Was this discussed somewhere? I'd like to know more about it.
>
> I believe it was discussed at the Language Summit
mar...@v.loewis.de writes:
> I wouldn't mind having alpha 1 in April 2013, and alpha 2 in October 2013.
> I share Larry's skepticism, and actually fear that it may confuse users
> (which find that they test something completely different from what gets
> released).
I don't really think you ne
On Thu, 04 Oct 2012 03:14:11 +0200, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Giampaolo_Rodol=E0?=
wrote:
> 2012/10/3 Larry Hastings :
>
> > Other proposed large-scale changes:
> > [...]
> > * A standard event-loop interface (PEP by Jim Fulton pending)
>
> Really? Was this discussed somewhere? I'd like to know more abou
2012/10/3 Larry Hastings :
> Other proposed large-scale changes:
> [...]
> * A standard event-loop interface (PEP by Jim Fulton pending)
Really? Was this discussed somewhere? I'd like to know more about it.
--- Giampaolo
http://code.google.com/p/pyftpdlib/
http://code.google.com/p/psutil/
http:/
Zitat von Nick Coghlan :
Regardless of when the first alpha happens, I'll be promoting the hell
out of it, begging for feedback on any of these changes that are
available by then (which should be quite a few, given the preceding
PyCon US sprints). However, I would *like* to have months rather t
Zitat von Maciej Fijalkowski :
On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 8:43 PM, Larry Hastings wrote:
Begging for feedback doesn't mean you'll get any,
I received a fair number of complaints from people that wanted to
experiment with yield from, but coul
Zitat von Eric Snow :
On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
I *can't* effectively trial
those changes on PyPI (except perhaps some of the disassembly
changes), and I don't have the resources to create and distribute
Windows and Mac OS X installers on my own. That means, before t
Zitat von Skip Montanaro :
I've roughed out a release schedule
Is there a rough list of changes for 3.4 written down somewhere, or is
that only to be inferred based on PEPs whose Python-Version header
reads "3.4"? How confident are you that the schedule you've proposed
gives enough time
Zitat von Larry Hastings :
I welcome your feedback--without any further input I'll go ahead and
post this as a PEP in a week or so.
I personally feel that the release period is too long. Is it really necessary
to start with the release more than 6 month before the scheduled release date?
Sta
On Wed, 3 Oct 2012 20:05:24 +0200
Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Oct 2012 20:25:17 +0530
> Nick Coghlan wrote:
> > On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 5:16 PM, Larry Hastings wrote:
> > > I don't agree. It's my understanding that the alphas are largely ignored,
> > > and having them earlier would hardly
On Wed, 3 Oct 2012 20:25:17 +0530
Nick Coghlan wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 5:16 PM, Larry Hastings wrote:
> > I don't agree. It's my understanding that the alphas are largely ignored,
> > and having them earlier would hardly make them more relevant.
>
> I would appreciate it you stopped pro
On 2012-10-03 16:28, Brian Curtin wrote:
On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 10:13 AM, Larry Hastings wrote:
On 10/03/2012 04:55 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
Regardless of when the first alpha happens, I'll be promoting the hell
out of it, begging for feedback on any of these changes that are
available by then
On 10/03/2012 06:26 PM, R. David Murray wrote:
On Wed, 03 Oct 2012 18:02:03 +0200, Larry Hastings wrote:
Changing an existing alpha to be earlier doesn't alter the workload, but
I fear it makes the alpha less relevant. Evaluating alphas / betas
takes an investment of time, and whether or not a
On 03.10.12 19:02, Larry Hastings wrote:
But my suspicion is that most people who
try the alphas are doing early integration testing with their own
stuff. For those people, the earlier the alpha, the less interesting it
probably is to them. Earlier means that the software will be less
finished.
On 3 October 2012 17:34, R. David Murray wrote:
> There *were* bug reports during the alpha phase. A number of regressions
> were caught. Also, there were more alpha-phase bug reports than
> I remember getting for 3.2. I remember thinking, "wow, cool, we're
> actually getting regression bug rep
Nick Coghlan wrote:
On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 8:58 PM, Brian Curtin wrote:
This doesn't answer the question of the users wanting the alphas
earlier, but they're certainly more than largely ignored...
The webstats in April 2012 show 5628 downloads of 3.3a1 and 4946
downloads of 3.3a2 Windows insta
On Wed, 03 Oct 2012 11:19:57 -0500, Brian Curtin wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 11:02 AM, Larry Hastings wrote:
> >
> > On 10/03/2012 05:28 PM, Brian Curtin wrote:
> >
> > The webstats in April 2012 show 5628 downloads of 3.3a1 and 4946
> > downloads of 3.3a2 Windows installers.
> >
> >
> > I'd
On Wed, 03 Oct 2012 18:02:03 +0200, Larry Hastings wrote:
> Changing an existing alpha to be earlier doesn't alter the workload, but
> I fear it makes the alpha less relevant. Evaluating alphas / betas
> takes an investment of time, and whether or not a potential alpha user
> makes that invest
Nick Coghlan writes:
> I proposed to Larry originally that we start the alphas 6 months
> after 3.3.0,
I like this idea better, even though to keep the total workload
constant you'd need to more than double the interval between alphas.
Still, a 10- or 12-month release schedule feels like a much
On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 11:02 AM, Larry Hastings wrote:
>
> On 10/03/2012 05:28 PM, Brian Curtin wrote:
>
> The webstats in April 2012 show 5628 downloads of 3.3a1 and 4946
> downloads of 3.3a2 Windows installers.
>
>
> I'd love to know how much feedback we got as a result of these downloads.
> Do
On 10/03/2012 05:27 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
That's your prerogative as RM of course, but you haven't given any
reason beyond the circular "I don't care about enabling feedback from
people that can't or won't build from source, because people that
can't or won't build from source don't provide us
On Oct 03, 2012, at 11:22 AM, R. David Murray wrote:
>I don't have any data to back this up, but it is my impression that more
>distributions are providing access to alpha releases in their "testing"
>package trees.
Ubuntu and Debian generally does, thanks to Matthias's great work. Python
3.3's
On 3 October 2012 16:13, Larry Hastings wrote:
> On 10/03/2012 04:55 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>
> Regardless of when the first alpha happens, I'll be promoting the hell
> out of it, begging for feedback on any of these changes that are
> available by then (which should be quite a few, given the pre
On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> I *can't* effectively trial
> those changes on PyPI (except perhaps some of the disassembly
> changes), and I don't have the resources to create and distribute
> Windows and Mac OS X installers on my own. That means, before the
> release of 3.4
On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 8:59 PM, Maciej Fijalkowski wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 8:43 PM, Larry Hastings wrote:
>>> Begging for feedback doesn't mean you'll get any,
>>
>> I received a fair number of complaints from people that wanted to
>
On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 8:58 PM, Brian Curtin wrote:
> This doesn't answer the question of the users wanting the alphas
> earlier, but they're certainly more than largely ignored...
>
> The webstats in April 2012 show 5628 downloads of 3.3a1 and 4946
> downloads of 3.3a2 Windows installers.
So, th
On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 10:13 AM, Larry Hastings wrote:
> On 10/03/2012 04:55 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>
> Regardless of when the first alpha happens, I'll be promoting the hell
> out of it, begging for feedback on any of these changes that are
> available by then (which should be quite a few, given
On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 8:43 PM, Larry Hastings wrote:
>> Begging for feedback doesn't mean you'll get any,
>
> I received a fair number of complaints from people that wanted to
> experiment with yield from, but couldn't, because the first alph
On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 8:43 PM, Larry Hastings wrote:
> Begging for feedback doesn't mean you'll get any,
I received a fair number of complaints from people that wanted to
experiment with yield from, but couldn't, because the first alpha
wasn't out yet and they weren't sufficiently interested to
On Wed, 03 Oct 2012 20:25:17 +0530, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 5:16 PM, Larry Hastings wrote:
> > I don't agree. It's my understanding that the alphas are largely ignored,
> > and having them earlier would hardly make them more relevant.
>
> I would appreciate it you stopped p
> If you can show me people who use the alphas who want them earlier, I'll
> consider it. So far the only person who's said they want them is you, and
> IIUC you won't be a consumer of the alpha per se.
>
> Begging for feedback doesn't mean you'll get any,
I haven't done any Python core developme
On 10/03/2012 04:55 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
Regardless of when the first alpha happens, I'll be promoting the hell
out of it, begging for feedback on any of these changes that are
available by then (which should be quite a few, given the preceding
PyCon US sprints).
If you can show me people wh
On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 5:16 PM, Larry Hastings wrote:
> I don't agree. It's my understanding that the alphas are largely ignored,
> and having them earlier would hardly make them more relevant.
I would appreciate it you stopped promoting this myth. Each step in
the release process widens the poo
On Oct 03, 2012, at 06:45 AM, Skip Montanaro wrote:
>Is there a rough list of changes for 3.4 written down somewhere
Let the wild rumpus begin!
-Barry
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On 10/03/2012 01:54 PM, Larry Hastings wrote:
On 10/03/2012 01:45 PM, Skip Montanaro wrote:
Is there a rough list of changes for 3.4 written down somewhere, or is that
only to be inferred based on PEPs whose Python-Version header reads "3.4"? How
confident are you that the schedule you've propo
On 10/03/2012 01:45 PM, Skip Montanaro wrote:
Is there a rough list of changes for 3.4 written down somewhere, or is
that only to be inferred based on PEPs whose Python-Version header
reads "3.4"? How confident are you that the schedule you've proposed
gives enough time for proposed changes to
On 10/03/2012 01:40 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 4:57 PM, Larry Hastings wrote:
- 3.4.0 alpha 1: August 3, 2013
Looks pretty good to me, but I'd still like to experiment with
bringing this one up a few months (say to April, a few weeks after
PyCon US 2013). I'm sure we can la
> I've roughed out a release schedule
Is there a rough list of changes for 3.4 written down somewhere, or is
that only to be inferred based on PEPs whose Python-Version header
reads "3.4"? How confident are you that the schedule you've proposed
gives enough time for proposed changes to be imp
On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 4:57 PM, Larry Hastings wrote:
>
> Howdy howdy. Unless someone has a better idea, I'm the release manager for
> Python 3.4. I've roughed out a release schedule, assuming a 16-month period
> between 3.3 and 3.4. It works out to having 3.4 ship about seven weeks
> before th
Howdy howdy. Unless someone has a better idea, I'm the release manager
for Python 3.4. I've roughed out a release schedule, assuming a
16-month period between 3.3 and 3.4. It works out to having 3.4 ship
about seven weeks before the PyCon 2014 core dev sprint, so even if we
slip some we sh
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