Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating the formatter module

2013-08-15 Thread Brett Cannon
On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 5:22 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:16:20 +0200 > Victor Stinner wrote: > > 2013/8/15 Antoine Pitrou : > > > We don't have any substantial change in store for an eventual "Python > > > 4", so it's quite a remote hypothesis right now. > > > > I prefered

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating the formatter module

2013-08-15 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:16:20 +0200 Victor Stinner wrote: > 2013/8/15 Antoine Pitrou : > > We don't have any substantial change in store for an eventual "Python > > 4", so it's quite a remote hypothesis right now. > > I prefered the transition between Linux 2 and Linux 3 (no major > change, just a

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating the formatter module

2013-08-15 Thread Victor Stinner
2013/8/15 Antoine Pitrou : > We don't have any substantial change in store for an eventual "Python > 4", so it's quite a remote hypothesis right now. I prefered the transition between Linux 2 and Linux 3 (no major change, just a "normal" release except the version), rather than the transition betw

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating the formatter module

2013-08-15 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:28:52 +1000 Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > These are all very good arguments, for both sides, and it is a balance > between code churn and bit rot, but on balance I'm going to come down firmly > in favour of Nick's earlier recommendation: PendingDeprecation (and/or a move >

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating the formatter module

2013-08-14 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On 15/08/13 01:08, Brett Cannon wrote: On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 10:22 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On 13/08/13 23:36, Brett Cannon wrote: On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 6:34 AM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: 12.08.13 22:22, Brett Cannon написав(ла): I have created http://bugs.python.org/issue1

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating the formatter module

2013-08-14 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 8/14/2013 12:09 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > >> On 14 August 2013 11:55, Brett Cannon wrote: >> > > I view a deprecation as the same thing. If we leave the module in until >>> Python 4 then I can live with that, but simply moving documentat

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating the formatter module

2013-08-14 Thread Terry Reedy
On 8/14/2013 12:09 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: On 14 August 2013 11:55, Brett Cannon wrote: I view a deprecation as the same thing. If we leave the module in until Python 4 then I can live with that, but simply moving documentation around is not enough to communicate to those who didn't read the

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating the formatter module

2013-08-14 Thread Brett Cannon
On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 1:50 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 6:42 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > That would be PEP 4 :) > > What's the normal way to update a PEP? > > ... proposals for deprecating modules MUST be made by providing a > change to the text of this PEP, whic

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating the formatter module

2013-08-14 Thread Chris Angelico
On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 6:42 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > That would be PEP 4 :) What's the normal way to update a PEP? ... proposals for deprecating modules MUST be made by providing a change to the text of this PEP, which SHOULD be a patch posted to SourceForge...""" Would that now b

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating the formatter module

2013-08-14 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 14 August 2013 12:17, Eli Bendersky wrote: > On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 9:09 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: >> >> On 14 August 2013 11:55, Brett Cannon wrote: >> > I view a deprecation as the same thing. If we leave the module in until >> > Python 4 then I can live with that, but simply moving document

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating the formatter module

2013-08-14 Thread Skip Montanaro
> We then realized that it isn't really used by anyone (pydoc uses it but it > should have been using textwrap). Looking at the history of the module it > has just been a magnet for cleanup revisions and not actual usage or > development since Guido added it back in 1995. Note that it is/was used

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating the formatter module

2013-08-14 Thread MRAB
On 14/08/2013 17:17, Eli Bendersky wrote: On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 9:09 AM, Nick Coghlan mailto:ncogh...@gmail.com>> wrote: On 14 August 2013 11:55, Brett Cannon mailto:br...@python.org>> wrote: > On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Nick Coghlan mailto:ncogh...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating the formatter module

2013-08-14 Thread Brett Cannon
On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > On 14 August 2013 11:55, Brett Cannon wrote: > > On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Nick Coghlan > wrote: > >> > >> On 14 August 2013 11:08, Brett Cannon wrote: > >> > We take adding a module to the stdlib very seriously for all of these >

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating the formatter module

2013-08-14 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 9:09 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > On 14 August 2013 11:55, Brett Cannon wrote: > > On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Nick Coghlan > wrote: > >> > >> On 14 August 2013 11:08, Brett Cannon wrote: > >> > We take adding a module to the stdlib very seriously for all of these >

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating the formatter module

2013-08-14 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 14 August 2013 11:55, Brett Cannon wrote: > On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: >> >> On 14 August 2013 11:08, Brett Cannon wrote: >> > We take adding a module to the stdlib very seriously for all of these >> > reasons and yet people seem to forget that the exact same reason

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating the formatter module

2013-08-14 Thread Brett Cannon
On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > On 14 August 2013 11:08, Brett Cannon wrote: > > We take adding a module to the stdlib very seriously for all of these > > reasons and yet people seem to forget that the exact same reasons apply > to > > modules already in the stdlib, wheth

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating the formatter module

2013-08-14 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 14 August 2013 11:08, Brett Cannon wrote: > We take adding a module to the stdlib very seriously for all of these > reasons and yet people seem to forget that the exact same reasons apply to > modules already in the stdlib, whether they would be added today or not (and > in this instance I woul

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating the formatter module

2013-08-14 Thread Antoine Pitrou
Le Wed, 14 Aug 2013 11:08:29 -0400, Brett Cannon a écrit : > > > > You know, there may be one or two Python programmers who didn't go > > to PyCon CA... :-) > > > > Sure, but you would assume at least *one* person would have known of > the module in a room of sprinters. Not necessarily. There ar

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating the formatter module

2013-08-14 Thread Brett Cannon
On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 10:22 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On 13/08/13 23:36, Brett Cannon wrote: > >> On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 6:34 AM, Serhiy Storchaka > >wrote: >> >> 12.08.13 22:22, Brett Cannon написав(ла): >>> >>> I have created >>> http://bugs.python.org/issue18716

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating the formatter module

2013-08-13 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On 13/08/13 23:36, Brett Cannon wrote: On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 6:34 AM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: 12.08.13 22:22, Brett Cannon написав(ла): I have created http://bugs.python.org/**issue18716to deprecate the formatter module for removal in Python 3.6 unless

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating the formatter module

2013-08-13 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 13 Aug 2013 09:39, "Brett Cannon" wrote: > > > > > On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 6:34 AM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: >> >> 12.08.13 22:22, Brett Cannon написав(ла): >> >>> I have created http://bugs.python.org/issue18716 to deprecate the >>> formatter module for removal in Python 3.6 unless someone con

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating the formatter module

2013-08-13 Thread Brett Cannon
On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 6:34 AM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: > 12.08.13 22:22, Brett Cannon написав(ла): > > I have created > http://bugs.python.org/**issue18716to > deprecate the >> formatter module for removal in Python 3.6 unless someone convinces me >> otherwi

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating the formatter module

2013-08-13 Thread Serhiy Storchaka
12.08.13 22:22, Brett Cannon написав(ла): I have created http://bugs.python.org/issue18716 to deprecate the formatter module for removal in Python 3.6 unless someone convinces me otherwise that deprecation and removal is the wrong move. The formatter module doesn't look such buggy as the audioo

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating the formatter module

2013-08-13 Thread Phil Elson
On 12 August 2013 22:01, Ryan wrote: > Keep it, but put better documentation. It's needed. There are many a useful package outside of the standard library. If this is genuinely useful in some specialist use cases then I'm sure the code will find its way to a github repo and be maintained as a

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating the formatter module

2013-08-12 Thread Ryan
I never realized it existed till now. Considering the usually erratic projects I like do, I can see that coming in use in several in which I had to do odd workarounds. Keep it, but put better documentation. It's needed. Brett Cannon wrote: >At the PyCon CA sprint someone discovered the format

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating the formatter module

2013-08-12 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Mon, 12 Aug 2013 14:22:01 -0700 Eli Bendersky wrote: > On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 12:22 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > > At the PyCon CA sprint someone discovered the formatter module had > > somewhat low code coverage. We discovered this is because it's tested by > > test_sundry, i.e. it's tested

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating the formatter module

2013-08-12 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 12:22 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: > At the PyCon CA sprint someone discovered the formatter module had > somewhat low code coverage. We discovered this is because it's tested by > test_sundry, i.e. it's tested by importing it and that's it. > > We then realized that it isn't r

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating the formatter module

2013-08-12 Thread Larry Hastings
On 08/12/2013 04:11 PM, Paul Moore wrote: [...] if I'd stumbled across it by chance, my reaction would have been that it was another one of Python's "hidden gems" that I'd never been aware of. Hidden "gem"? No. Hidden "paste diamond", maybe. YAGNI, //arry/

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating the formatter module

2013-08-12 Thread Paul Moore
On 12 August 2013 20:22, Brett Cannon wrote: > At the PyCon CA sprint someone discovered the formatter module had > somewhat low code coverage. We discovered this is because it's tested by > test_sundry, i.e. it's tested by importing it and that's it. > > We then realized that it isn't really use

[Python-Dev] Deprecating the formatter module

2013-08-12 Thread Brett Cannon
At the PyCon CA sprint someone discovered the formatter module had somewhat low code coverage. We discovered this is because it's tested by test_sundry, i.e. it's tested by importing it and that's it. We then realized that it isn't really used by anyone (pydoc uses it but it should have been using