Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

On 27 September 2014 06:08, Terry Reedy wrote: > Pip on Windows should act like a normal Windows program. If I install > Python for all users, I expect pipped packages to be installed for all users > too, unless I specify otherwise. If installation (for all users) requires > admin privileges, I

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

On 27 Sep 2014 14:19, "Chris Barker" wrote: > > All this is also making me think that virtualenv and friends is the real solution to user installed packages anyway. The main use case that doesn't cover is system scripting on Linux, where you may want access to all the platform specific libraries.

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

On 9/26/2014 1:03 PM, Chris Barker wrote: On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 5:38 PM, Donald Stufft mailto:don...@stufft.io>> wrote: 2) Switch to —user based on if the user has permission to write to the site-packages or not. ouch -- no. Why not a clear error message if p

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 5:38 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: > 2) Switch to —user based on if the user has permission to write to the >> site-packages or not. >> > > ouch -- no. Why not a clear error message if pip can't write to > site-packages -- something like: > > I fairly strongly believe that

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

> On Sep 26, 2014, at 9:53 AM, Paul Moore wrote: > > On 26 September 2014 14:31, Donald Stufft wrote: >> Yea, I think we throw an error when you use —user inside a virtual >>environment. > > So if --user became the default, what would happen? I'd like pip > inside a virtualenv to install i

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

On 26 September 2014 14:31, Donald Stufft wrote: > Yea, I think we throw an error when you use —user inside a virtual > environment. So if --user became the default, what would happen? I'd like pip inside a virtualenv to install into the environment without needing a --system flag. Is that th

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

> On Sep 26, 2014, at 3:09 AM, Paul Moore wrote: > > On 26 September 2014 01:38, Donald Stufft wrote: >> Either way I'm fairly commited to making --user the default, the only >> question >> on my mind is what exactly does that look like (e.g. does root get --user by >> default?) and how we get

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

On 26 September 2014 01:38, Donald Stufft wrote: > Either way I'm fairly commited to making --user the default, the only > question > on my mind is what exactly does that look like (e.g. does root get --user by > default?) and how we get from where we are now to that point. I think that > raising

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

> On Sep 25, 2014, at 6:44 PM, Chris Barker wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 9:00 AM, Donald Stufft > wrote: > 1) Just always default to —user and add a —system or similar flag, this > is super easy to change but is a backwards incompatible change and > would

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 9:00 AM, Donald Stufft wrote: > 1) Just always default to —user and add a —system or similar flag, this > is super easy to change but is a backwards incompatible change and > would need to go through a deprecation window. > Maybe would have been the way to go to b

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

On 26 Sep 2014 01:56, "Paul Moore" wrote: > > Basically, I'd like to hold off moving to "Program Files" as a default > until *after* we have enough confidence in user installs that we are > willing to switch pip to --user as the default behaviour everywhere. > And yes, I'm aware that the first "we

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

On 09/24/2014 09:11 PM, Larry Hastings wrote: Therefore: if VC14 doesn't ship by 3.5 RC1, currently set at August 5, 2015, I decree we have to ship 3.5 with the previous version. Reasonable? Seems reasonable to me. -- ~Ethan~ ___ Python-Dev mailin

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

Am 24.09.14 14:34, schrieb Antoine Pitrou: > On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 17:12:35 +1000 > Nick Coghlan wrote: >> On 24 Sep 2014 15:15, "Tim Golden" wrote: >>> >>> On 23/09/2014 18:05, Steve Dower wrote: I'm also considering/experimenting with installing into "Program Files" by default, but

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

On 25 September 2014 18:13, Steve Dower wrote: > Again, this isn't trivial to get right. The design for the elevation model > seems to have focused mainly on GUI rather than console, probably assuming > that people who need to elevate from the console will elevate the shell > itself (this is a

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

> Paul Moore wrote: > On 25 September 2014 17:05, Steve Dower wrote: >> So yes, pip can certainly do this, and if it's already running >> elevated then it shouldn't reprompt, but it's not entirely trivial to >> get this right ("are you denied write access to that directory because >> you're not ad

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

On 25 September 2014 17:05, Steve Dower wrote: > So yes, pip can certainly do this, and if it's already running elevated then > it shouldn't reprompt, but it's not entirely trivial to get this right ("are > you denied write access to that directory because you're not admin or because > it's on

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

Chris Angelico wrote: > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 6:50 AM, Steve Dower > wrote: >> Donald Stufft wrote: >>> One thing about *nix is even though you can’t write to your normal >>> Python install location without root, invoking pip with permissions >>> (assuming you have >>> them) is as easy as prefa

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

> On Sep 25, 2014, at 11:54 AM, Paul Moore wrote: > > On 25 September 2014 16:43, Donald Stufft wrote: >> Basically people have Python in a ton of different configurations and it’s >> hard to figure out if —user will work out of the box in all of them or not. > > I guess that "Using the python

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

On 25 September 2014 16:43, Donald Stufft wrote: > Basically people have Python in a ton of different configurations and it’s > hard to figure out if —user will work out of the box in all of them or not. I guess that "Using the python.org Python installer on Windows" is a limited enough subset th

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

> On Sep 25, 2014, at 4:54 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > On Thu, 25 Sep 2014 07:34:31 +0100 > Paul Moore wrote: >> On 25 September 2014 02:08, Antoine Pitrou wrote: Indeed. Moving towards having --user as the norm is definitely something we want to look at for pip. One of the biggest

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

On 24 September 2014 23:16, Mike Miller wrote: > Hi all, > > ProgramFiles was the default in Python 1.X. > > It has been a supported option for just shy of 15 years on 2.X... most if > not all the bugs (setuptools) were fixed a decade ago, and right now > thousands, if not millions of people are

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

Le 25/09/2014 09:22, INADA Naoki a écrit : > FYI, homebrew's Python uses prefix option, so I can't use `--user`. > Is it a bug? > > $ /usr/local/bin/pip -V > pip 1.5.6 from > /usr/local/Cellar/python/2.7.8_1/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.7/lib/python2.7/site-packages/pip-1.5.6-py2.7.egg

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

On Thu, 25 Sep 2014 07:34:31 +0100 Paul Moore wrote: > On 25 September 2014 02:08, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > >> Indeed. Moving towards having --user as the norm is definitely > >> something we want to look at for pip. One of the biggest concerns is > >> how well-exercised the whole user site direct

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

FYI, homebrew's Python uses prefix option, so I can't use `--user`. Is it a bug? $ /usr/local/bin/pip -V pip 1.5.6 from /usr/local/Cellar/python/2.7.8_1/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.7/lib/python2.7/site-packages/pip-1.5.6-py2.7.egg (python 2.7) $ /usr/local/bin/pip install --user torna

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

On 25 September 2014 02:08, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >> Indeed. Moving towards having --user as the norm is definitely >> something we want to look at for pip. One of the biggest concerns is >> how well-exercised the whole user site directory area is in practice. > > What do you mean by well-exercise

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

On 09/24/2014 08:04 AM, Victor Stinner wrote: It was too distrubing to read "3.4" in the "3.5" schedule. I modified the PEP directly, sorry Larry. No sweat. I would have fixed it myself, but yesterday was a big travel day. Thanks for fixing it! //arry/ __

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

On 09/23/2014 06:48 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: On 24 September 2014 03:05, Steve Dower wrote: I'd like to move the Windows versions onto the next release of VC (currently "VC 14" until the branding team figures out what to call it). There isn't a promised RTM date for VC 14 yet, so it looks like

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

On 9/24/2014 6:59 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: That is, could pip defer the declaration until it's parsed its command line args and decided that it'll be installing into the system directory, but NOT make that declaration if it's given --user, or if it's running inside a venv, or anything else that

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

Yes, we enable the compile script. As we require admin rights to install Python and system (not user) modules with pip, the stdlib .pycs do get created under ProgramFiles at install time. There might well be a situation where a system pipped module doesn't get compiled, but to be honest the d

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 6:50 AM, Steve Dower wrote: > Donald Stufft wrote: >> One thing about *nix is even though you can’t write to your normal Python >> install location without root, invoking pip with permissions (assuming you >> have >> them) is as easy as prefacing it with ``sudo`` in most c

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > > I'd rather be conservative here and wait for another Python release before > switching VC versions. There are a few important questions that need answers > before we can consider a new VC version: > > * Will there be free versions available ? > > * Will those free editio

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 22:56:20 +0100 Paul Moore wrote: > On 24 September 2014 22:29, Steve Dower wrote: > >> In my experience pip --user works just fine also. We use it on our unmanned > >> media players successfully. > > > > This is good to know. Maybe we aren't as far away as we think. > > Indee

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

On 24 September 2014 22:29, Steve Dower wrote: >> In my experience pip --user works just fine also. We use it on our unmanned >> media players successfully. > > This is good to know. Maybe we aren't as far away as we think. Indeed. Moving towards having --user as the norm is definitely something

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

On 09/25/2014 08:43 AM, Donald Stufft wrote: One thing about *nix is even though you can’t write to your normal Python install location without root, invoking pip with permissions (assuming you have them) is as easy as prefacing it with ``sudo`` in most cases. Does Windows have an equivalent or

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

Paul Moore wrote: One thing that I presume would be an issue. Isn't Program Files protected in newer versions of Windows? Yes, that's the feature that protects from malicious users/code editing "import os" to run "format c:\", spam your address book, or look for credit card numbers, etc. I

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

On 09/25/2014 08:50 AM, Steve Dower wrote: Unfortunately not. The "easy way" is for the executable to declare that it needs administrative privileges, and then the OS will take over and let you approve/reject/sign-in/etc. according to your settings. There is the runas command, though it coul

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

> Mike Miller wrote: > Paul Moore wrote: >>> One thing that I presume would be an issue. Isn't Program Files >>> protected in newer versions of Windows? > > Yes, that's the feature that protects from malicious users/code editing > "import > os" to run "format c:\", spam your address book, or look

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

Thanks for the insights, Steve. More below... On 24.09.2014 18:52, Steve Dower wrote: > M.-A. Lemburg wrote: >> >> I'd rather be conservative here and wait for another Python release before >> switching VC versions. There are a few important questions that need answers >> before we can consider a

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

Donald Stufft wrote: > One thing about *nix is even though you can’t write to your normal Python > install location without root, invoking pip with permissions (assuming you > have > them) is as easy as prefacing it with ``sudo`` in most cases. Does Windows > have > an equivalent or do you need t

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

> On Sep 24, 2014, at 4:24 PM, Steve Dower wrote: > >> Paul Moore wrote: >> On 24 September 2014 14:16, Mike Miller wrote: >>> It has been a supported option for just shy of 15 years on 2.X... >>> most if not all the bugs (setuptools) were fixed a decade ago, and >>> right now thousands, if not

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

> Paul Moore wrote: > On 24 September 2014 14:16, Mike Miller wrote: >> It has been a supported option for just shy of 15 years on 2.X... >> most if not all the bugs (setuptools) were fixed a decade ago, and >> right now thousands, if not millions of people are running it under >> Program Files ri

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 21:32:52 +0200 Victor Stinner wrote: > Most Windows setup are desktop configured with a single user. I would not > be shocked if pip installs modules only for the current user by default. > Maybe it could be an option in Python installer (pip system wide or user). pip install

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

Most Windows setup are desktop configured with a single user. I would not be shocked if pip installs modules only for the current user by default. Maybe it could be an option in Python installer (pip system wide or user). Victor Le mercredi 24 septembre 2014, Paul Moore a écrit : > On 24 Septem

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

On 24 September 2014 14:16, Mike Miller wrote: > It has been a supported option for just shy of 15 years on 2.X... most if > not all the bugs (setuptools) were fixed a decade ago, and right now > thousands, if not millions of people are running it under Program Files > right now. I can vouch for

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

On 09/24/2014 10:00 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP On 24 Sep 2014 15:15, "Tim Golden" wrote: > > On 23/09/2014 18:05, Steve Dower wrote: >> I'm also considering/experimenting with installing into "Program >>

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

2014-09-23 2:22 GMT+02:00 Donald Stufft : <> I think we need a Python 3.5 Release Schedule PEP. >> >> Just checked it in as PEP 478. It should show up here in a few minutes: >> >> http://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0478/ >> Comments? > > It says 3.4.0 all through it. It was too distrubing to r

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 17:12:35 +1000 Nick Coghlan wrote: > On 24 Sep 2014 15:15, "Tim Golden" wrote: > > > > On 23/09/2014 18:05, Steve Dower wrote: > >> > >> I'm also considering/experimenting with installing into "Program > >> Files" by default, but I suspect that isn't going to work out yet. > >

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

On 24.09.2014 03:48, Nick Coghlan wrote: > On 24 September 2014 03:05, Steve Dower wrote: >> Larry Hastings wrote: >>> >>> On 09/19/2014 03:31 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: >>> I think we need a Python 3.5 Release Schedule PEP. >>> >>> Just checked it in as PEP 478. It should show up here in a few minu

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

On 24 September 2014 06:13, Tim Golden wrote: > My only real misgiving here is that, for a few years, we'll need *three* > versions installed to build the active branches: 2008 for 2.7; 2010 for 3.4; > and 2014 for 3.5. Am I wrong? Also, will 2014 express edition be able to fully build extensions

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

On 24 Sep 2014 15:15, "Tim Golden" wrote: > > On 23/09/2014 18:05, Steve Dower wrote: >> >> I'm also considering/experimenting with installing into "Program >> Files" by default, but I suspect that isn't going to work out yet. > > > I'd like to see that go forward: I think it's increasingly diffic

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

On 23/09/2014 18:05, Steve Dower wrote: I'm also considering/experimenting with installing into "Program Files" by default, but I suspect that isn't going to work out yet. I'd like to see that go forward: I think it's increasingly difficult to justify Python's position at c:\pythonxx. But it d

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

From: Donald Stufft<mailto:don...@stufft.io> Sent: ‎9/‎23/‎2014 18:50 To: Nick Coghlan<mailto:ncogh...@gmail.com> Cc: Steve Dower<mailto:steve.do...@microsoft.com>; python-dev@python.org<mailto:python-dev@python.org> Subject: Re: [Python-Dev]

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

> On Sep 23, 2014, at 10:14 PM, Steve Dower wrote: > > "This new compiler has the incredibly awesome feature of being forwards > compatible > right? Like in 10 years stuff compiled with a newer compiler will still work?" > > That's the promise at least :) > > All the macros that leaked implem

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

> On Sep 23, 2014, at 9:48 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > On 24 September 2014 03:05, Steve Dower > wrote: >> Larry Hastings wrote: >>> >>> On 09/19/2014 03:31 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: >>> I think we need a Python 3.5 Release Schedule PEP. >>> >>> Just checked it

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

On 24 September 2014 03:05, Steve Dower wrote: > Larry Hastings wrote: >> >> On 09/19/2014 03:31 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: >> I think we need a Python 3.5 Release Schedule PEP. >> >> Just checked it in as PEP 478. It should show up here in a few minutes: >> http://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-047

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

Larry Hastings wrote: > > On 09/19/2014 03:31 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > I think we need a Python 3.5 Release Schedule PEP. > > Just checked it in as PEP 478.  It should show up here in a few minutes: > http://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0478/ > > Key facts: > . Beta 1 is May 24th 2015, about a

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

On 23 September 2014 19:46, Nick Coghlan wrote: > Under consideration (in addition to the items already listed in the PEP): > > PEP 432 (simplifying the startup sequence) > PEP 475 (retry system calls failing with EINTR) > Improved Windows console Unicode support (see > https://pypi.py

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

On 23 September 2014 10:20, Larry Hastings wrote: > > On 09/19/2014 03:31 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > > I think we need a Python 3.5 Release Schedule PEP. > > > Just checked it in as PEP 478. It should show up here in a few minutes: > > http://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0478/ Thanks. Some upda

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

> On Sep 22, 2014, at 8:20 PM, Larry Hastings wrote: > > > On 09/19/2014 03:31 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: >> I think we need a Python 3.5 Release Schedule PEP. > > Just checked it in as PEP 478. It should show up here in a few minutes: > http://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0478/ >

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

On 09/19/2014 03:31 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: I think we need a Python 3.5 Release Schedule PEP. Just checked it in as PEP 478. It should show up here in a few minutes: http://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0478/ Key facts: * Beta 1 is May 24th 2015, about a month after the end of the P

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

Yep. I plan to write it on Monday, at the PyCon UK sprints, right after 3.4.2rc1 goes out. FWIW it'll be 3.4 + 18 months. //arry/ On 09/19/2014 03:31 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: Hi Larry, I think we need a Python 3.5 Release Schedule PEP. Cheers, -Barry ___

[Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

Hi Larry, I think we need a Python 3.5 Release Schedule PEP. Cheers, -Barry signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.pytho