Re: [Python-Dev] [Distutils] [Catalog-sig] accept the wheel PEPs425, 426, 427

2012-11-13 Thread Ronald Oussoren
On 13 Nov, 2012, at 18:32, Martin v. Löwis wrote: > Am 13.11.12 17:45, schrieb Maciej Fijalkowski: >> For example distutils is absolutely *untestable* which makes it very >> far from good enough for me. > > I never had issues with testing distutils applications. I use > "python setup.py sdist",

Re: [Python-Dev] [Catalog-sig] [Distutils] accept the wheel PEPs 425, 426, 427

2012-11-13 Thread Ronald Oussoren
On 13 Nov, 2012, at 17:21, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > Le Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:10:30 +0100, > Ronald Oussoren a écrit : >> >> On 13 Nov, 2012, at 16:00, Daniel Holth wrote: >>> >>> I want to remove distutils from the standard library. >> >> Why? Distutils may not be perfect, but is usable for ba

Re: [Python-Dev] cpython (3.2): add gc_collects to weakref tests

2012-11-13 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Tue, 13 Nov 2012 21:26:51 +0100 (CET) philip.jenvey wrote: > http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/a580cf4ab940 > changeset: 80418:a580cf4ab940 > branch: 3.2 > parent: 80397:8a28c974f903 > user:Philip Jenvey > date:Tue Nov 13 12:26:31 2012 -0800 > summary: > add gc_col

Re: [Python-Dev] [Distutils] accept the wheel PEPs 425, 426, 427

2012-11-13 Thread Barry Warsaw
I'm just beginning to review these PEPs and the threads, with an OS vendor packager's eye. Let me start with one small suggestion for PEP 425. From the FAQ: Q. Who will maintain the registry of abbreviated implementations? A. New two-letter abbreviations can be requested on the python-dev maili

Re: [Python-Dev] [Catalog-sig] [Distutils] accept the wheel PEPs 425, 426, 427

2012-11-13 Thread Daniel Holth
On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 12:23 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: > I want to remove distutils from the standard library. If that happens >> then we might want a secure way to install it from pypi. One way would >> be to include the public key used to sign distutils in Python's own >> signature-verifying

Re: [Python-Dev] [Distutils] [Catalog-sig] accept the wheel PEPs425, 426, 427

2012-11-13 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 13.11.12 17:45, schrieb Maciej Fijalkowski: For example distutils is absolutely *untestable* which makes it very far from good enough for me. I never had issues with testing distutils applications. I use "python setup.py sdist", then unpack the resulting source package, install it, and run i

Re: [Python-Dev] [Catalog-sig] [Distutils] accept the wheel PEPs 425, 426, 427

2012-11-13 Thread Martin v. Löwis
I want to remove distutils from the standard library. If that happens then we might want a secure way to install it from pypi. One way would be to include the public key used to sign distutils in Python's own signature-verifying bootstrap wheel installer, never mind whether it used ECDSA or RSA or

Re: [Python-Dev] [Catalog-sig] accept the wheel PEPs 425, 426, 427

2012-11-13 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 13.11.12 11:26, schrieb M.-A. Lemburg: Note that signing such distribution files can be handled outside of the wheel format PEP. It just way to complex and out of scope for the wheel format itself. Also note that PGP/GPG and the other signing tools work well on any distribution file. There's r

Re: [Python-Dev] [Distutils] [Catalog-sig] accept the wheel PEPs425, 426, 427

2012-11-13 Thread Donald Stufft
Distutils is not good enough for the vast majority of people. Even for what it does, it does not do it well. It is a library that is user hostile and buggy. It was a fine first revision of packaging, but the Python community needs something better. On Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 11:31 AM, a.c

Re: [Python-Dev] [Distutils] [Catalog-sig] accept the wheel PEPs425, 426, 427

2012-11-13 Thread Maciej Fijalkowski
On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 5:31 PM, wrote: > > +1 > Distutils is good enough: it could be better but for what is required > (essentially copying files and creating packages installers) is fine. The only > corner case is an absolute pain in the neck is in the cross compile scenario. I think you shou

Re: [Python-Dev] [Distutils] [Catalog-sig] accept the wheel PEPs425, 426, 427

2012-11-13 Thread a.cavallo
I'll give you that number(?) but ... mercurial, docutils, jinjia2 pygments, sphinx, lxml, nose, cherrypy, django, pyqt ... all they don't need/use setuptools: that 25% left is quite an interesting field to play in. If setuptools was "significant packaging innovation" do you think people wouldn

Re: [Python-Dev] [Distutils] [Catalog-sig] accept the wheel PEPs425, 426, 427

2012-11-13 Thread a.cavallo
+1 Distutils is good enough: it could be better but for what is required (essentially copying files and creating packages installers) is fine. The only corner case is an absolute pain in the neck is in the cross compile scenario. Currently I don't have *any* need for "auto" tools (setuptools and

Re: [Python-Dev] [Distutils] [Catalog-sig] accept the wheel PEPs 425, 426, 427

2012-11-13 Thread Daniel Holth
The signatures section is now just: +If JSON web signatures are used, one or more JSON Web Signature JSON +Serialization (JWS-JS) signatures may be stored in a file RECORD.jws +adjacent to RECORD. JWS is used to sign RECORD by including the SHA-256 +hash of RECORD as the JWS payload:: { "ha

Re: [Python-Dev] [Distutils] [Catalog-sig] accept the wheel PEPs425, 426, 427

2012-11-13 Thread Daniel Holth
Setuptools! You would avoid 75% of pypi. It is nonsense to pretend that setuptools is not a significant packaging innovation. Its main flaw is that it is based on distutils, a non-extensible design. distutils2 is a lot of setuptools and distutils code with the plug-ability taken out. Perhaps I sho

Re: [Python-Dev] [Distutils] [Catalog-sig] accept the wheel PEPs 425, 426, 427

2012-11-13 Thread Ronald Oussoren
On 13 Nov, 2012, at 16:00, Daniel Holth wrote: > > I want to remove distutils from the standard library. Why? Distutils may not be perfect, but is usable for basic packages. It could even be enhanced to support these peps and be even more useable, although patches for that would run into the

Re: [Python-Dev] externals?

2012-11-13 Thread Benjamin Peterson
2012/11/13 Benjamin Peterson : > Their still in svn as far I know. s/Their/They're -- Regards, Benjamin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/o

Re: [Python-Dev] [Distutils] [Catalog-sig] accept the wheel PEPs 425, 426, 427

2012-11-13 Thread Dirkjan Ochtman
On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 4:00 PM, Daniel Holth wrote: > I'm willing to go ahead and move any mention of signing algorithms into a > separate PEP, leaving only the basic manifest hash vs. file contents > verification under the auspices of this PEP. >From the discussion so far, that seems like the s

Re: [Python-Dev] externals?

2012-11-13 Thread Benjamin Peterson
Their still in svn as far I know. 2012/11/13 Kristján Valur Jónsson : > This may be a silly question, but haven‘t the python externals been moved to > HG yet? > > I usually work on cpython without bothering with the externals, but I found > today that I needed them. On Windows this is a bit of a

Re: [Python-Dev] [Distutils] [Catalog-sig] accept the wheel PEPs 425, 426, 427

2012-11-13 Thread Daniel Holth
On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 5:26 AM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > On 13.11.2012 10:51, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: > > Am 13.11.12 03:04, schrieb Nick Coghlan: > >> On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 4:47 AM, Daniel Holth >> > wrote: > >> > >> I think Metadata 1.3 is done. Who would like to

[Python-Dev] externals?

2012-11-13 Thread Kristján Valur Jónsson
This may be a silly question, but haven't the python externals been moved to HG yet? I usually work on cpython without bothering with the externals, but I found today that I needed them. On Windows this is a bit of a bother. And I've thrown away all my SVN stuff... K __

Re: [Python-Dev] [Distutils] [Catalog-sig] accept the wheel PEPs 425, 426, 427

2012-11-13 Thread Paul Moore
On 13 November 2012 10:26, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > I agree with Martin. If the point is to "to protect against cryptography > that is not used", then not using the de-facto standard in signing > open source distribution files, which today is PGP/GPG, misses that > point :-) > I agree as well. For

Re: [Python-Dev] [Catalog-sig] accept the wheel PEPs 425, 426, 427

2012-11-13 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 13.11.2012 10:51, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: > Am 13.11.12 03:04, schrieb Nick Coghlan: >> On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 4:47 AM, Daniel Holth > > wrote: >> >> I think Metadata 1.3 is done. Who would like to czar? >> >> (Apologies for the belated reply, it's been a busy few

Re: [Python-Dev] [Catalog-sig] accept the wheel PEPs 425, 426, 427

2012-11-13 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 13.11.12 03:04, schrieb Nick Coghlan: On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 4:47 AM, Daniel Holth mailto:dho...@gmail.com>> wrote: I think Metadata 1.3 is done. Who would like to czar? (Apologies for the belated reply, it's been a busy few weeks) I'm happy to be BDFL delegate for these. I'd like to s