Re: [Python-Dev] Adding a conditional expression in Py3.0

2005-09-23 Thread Terry Reedy
"Nick Coghlan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] I am reminded of how some people seem to react to fingernails on a blackboard, while the screech is just another noise to me, except that I am in the opposite position with respect to a if b else c. > Does it help if

Re: [Python-Dev] Adding a conditional expression in Py3.0

2005-09-23 Thread Michael Urman
On 9/23/05, Nick Coghlan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > But I think there's a difference in kind here - to *fix* Raymond's example > required a fundamental change to the structure of the line, none of which > looked as clean as the original. There is no way to get the and/or construct > to gracefully

Re: [Python-Dev] Adding a conditional expression in Py3.0

2005-09-23 Thread Nick Coghlan
Terry Reedy wrote: > During the c.l.p debate, someone counted about 100 correct uses of 'a and b > or c' in the standard library. But one real misuse edged Guido toward > replacing it. So I think the replacement should be as clear as reasonably > possible and clearly an improvement. But I thi

Re: [Python-Dev] Adding a conditional expression in Py3.0

2005-09-23 Thread Terry Reedy
"Greg Ewing" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Terry Reedy wrote: > >> Many people, perhaps most, including me, read >> >> exp1 if exp2 else exp3 # as >> cond if etrue else efalse # in direct analogy with >> cond ? etrue : efalse # from C > > I'd have thought only

Re: [Python-Dev] Visibility scope for "for/while/if" statements

2005-09-23 Thread Greg Ewing
Nick Coghlan wrote: > Python, however, uses a dynamic name binding system and scopes are expensive > because they require setting up all of the machinery to support nested > visibility. Scopes within a function needn't be anywhere near as expensive as scopes for nested functions are. The compil

Re: [Python-Dev] Visibility scope for "for/while/if" statements

2005-09-23 Thread Nick Coghlan
Andrew Koenig wrote: >>Interestingly enough, not all C++ compilers (Microsoft) hid variables >>created in for loops >>(http://www.devx.com/cplus/10MinuteSolution/28908/0/page/2). > > > That's because the C++ spec changed during standardization, when the > standards committee realized the original

Re: [Python-Dev] Adding a conditional expression in Py3.0

2005-09-23 Thread Terry Reedy
"Jim Jewett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] A nice summary, to which I will add just a little. > For a conditional expression, I think the choices are really down > to the following, which was already way too much freedom last > (http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0308.

Re: [Python-Dev] Adding a conditional expression in Py3.0

2005-09-23 Thread Terry Reedy
>> Need I continue? Or is the dead still dead? Since 'a if b else c' is not obviously dead, I will summarize my argument against it thusly: It is ambiguous to people because it is can be parsed (by people, who are not automatons) as either '(a if) b (else c)' or 'a (if b) (else c)'. The firs

Re: [Python-Dev] Compressing MSI files: 2.4.2 candidate?

2005-09-23 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Vincent Wehren wrote: > The LZX:21-compressed package worked absolutely fine for me (Windows XP > Professional Build 2600.xpsp_sp2_gdr). Thanks for all the confirmations; I'm going to use it then for 2.4.2. Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Py

Re: [Python-Dev] Adding a conditional expression in Py3.0

2005-09-23 Thread Josiah Carlson
Gareth McCaughan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [seems to have gone off list with a portion of the discussion] > > The reason I like "a if b else c" is because it has the > > most natural word order. In English, > >My dog is happy if he has a bone, else sad. > > sounds much more natural than > >

Re: [Python-Dev] Adding a conditional expression in Py3.0

2005-09-23 Thread Paul Moore
On 9/20/05, Nick Coghlan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Basically, I'm +1 on the original PEP 308 form because it reads more naturally > (and more like LC's and GE's) to me in expression contexts, and +0 on the > "if/then/elif/else" form (because I would like a real conditional operator). I agree th

Re: [Python-Dev] GIL, Python 3, and MP vs. UP

2005-09-23 Thread Paul Moore
On 9/21/05, Josiah Carlson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Antoine Pitrou <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > The best way to make people stop complaining about the GIL and start > > > using > > > process-based multiprogramming is to provide solid, standardized support > > > for process-based m

Re: [Python-Dev] Visibility scope for "for/while/if" statements

2005-09-23 Thread Andrew Koenig
> Interestingly enough, not all C++ compilers (Microsoft) hid variables > created in for loops > (http://www.devx.com/cplus/10MinuteSolution/28908/0/page/2). That's because the C++ spec changed during standardization, when the standards committee realized the original idea was a mistake. One of t

Re: [Python-Dev] Visibility scope for "for/while/if" statements

2005-09-23 Thread Gareth McCaughan
On Thursday 2005-09-22 20:00, Josiah Carlson wrote: [Alexander Myodov:] > > But for the "performance-oriented/human-friendliness" factor, Python > > is anyway not a rival to C and similar lowlevellers. C has > > pseudo-namespaces, though. > > C does not have pseudo-namespaces or variable encapsul

Re: [Python-Dev] Adding a conditional expression in Py3.0

2005-09-23 Thread Gareth McCaughan
> The reason I like "a if b else c" is because it has the > most natural word order. In English, >My dog is happy if he has a bone, else sad. > sounds much more natural than >My dog is, if he has a bone, happy, else sad. Neither sounds very natural to me; conditional expressions don't occu

Re: [Python-Dev] GIL, Python 3, and MP vs. UP

2005-09-23 Thread Michael Hudson
"Gregory P. Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Mon, Sep 19, 2005 at 09:12:05PM +0100, Michael Hudson wrote: >> Martin Blais <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> > http://www.gotw.ca/publications/concurrency-ddj.htm >> > The Free Lunch Is Over: A Fundamental Turn Toward Concurrency in Software >> >

[Python-Dev] Repository for python developers

2005-09-23 Thread Mikhail Kashkin
Moscow, Russia, September 23th, 2005 We are happy to spread good news about `Key Solutions' `_ new initiative. We have created a new public repository for python developers. The ulitimate goal of this project is to unite companies and people under the umbrella of Russi

Re: [Python-Dev] IMPORTANT: release24-maint branch is FROZEN from 2005-09-21 00:00 UTC for 2.4.2

2005-09-23 Thread Jeremy Maxfield
That's great - thanks alot. Cheers, Max   On 9/23/05, Michael Hudson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Michael Hudson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:> Jeremy Maxfield < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:>>> Sorry I think you're 'much mistaken'... The revision of PyState.c in the rc242c1  looks like 2.38.22 (shoul

Re: [Python-Dev] IMPORTANT: release24-maint branch is FROZEN from 2005-09-21 00:00 UTC for 2.4.2

2005-09-23 Thread Michael Hudson
Michael Hudson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Jeremy Maxfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> Sorry I think you're 'much mistaken'... >> >> The revision of PyState.c in the rc242c1 looks like 2.38.22 (should be >> 2.42) >> and threadmodule.c looks like 2.59 (should be 2.64) > > Looks like you'