Aahz wrote:
On Thu, Dec 09, 2004, Michiel Jan Laurens de Hoon wrote:
My suggestion is therefore to replace PyOS_InputHook by two functions
PyOS_AddInputHook and PyOS_RemoveInputHook, and let Python keep track of
which hooks are installed. This way, an extension module can add a hook
function withou
On Friday 10 December 2004 06:25, Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy) wrote:
> Michael Hudson wrote:
> > Anthony's Australian, people expect this sort of thing from him :)
>
> As another Australian, I think that "Making Python Not Suck" implies
> that if you don't do extra things, Python Sucks.
>
> This i
Raymond> * Any PR effort should also emphasize that no usability
Raymond> trade-offs were made along the way. A number of features
Raymond> make Py2.4 easier to use than 1.5.6: list comps, genexps,
Raymond> generators, sets, nested scopes, int/long unification,
Raymond>
I've included a lot of background information here, if you just want to
know the details
of the proposed change, skip to the bottom.
As some of you may know, Python 2.4's configure script and distutils
has some
tricky behavior with regard to the ``MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET``
environment
variable
Guido van Rossum wrote:
[snip]
One thing that bugs me: the article says 3 or 4 times that Python is
slow, each time with a refutation ("but it's so flexible", "but it's
fast enough") but still, they sure seem to harp on the point. This is
a PR issue that Python needs to fight -- any ideas?
One thin
On Thu, 2004-12-09 at 16:37 -0500, Phillip J. Eby wrote:
> +1 on all the stuff you said, with one minor exception. Pyrex-the-language
> is often unpythonically ugly and verbose at present.
Personally I have no problem with Pyrex's current tradeoffs, but given
the amount of effort that this is g
If I parse you correctly, this would be great.
- Michael
On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 16:37:59 -0500, Phillip J. Eby
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 04:11 PM 12/9/04 -0500, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote:
>
>
> >On Wed, 2004-12-08 at 17:39 -0500, Phillip J. Eby wrote:
> >
> > > The only thing that will fix the
At 04:11 PM 12/9/04 -0500, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote:
On Wed, 2004-12-08 at 17:39 -0500, Phillip J. Eby wrote:
> The only thing that will fix the PR issue is to have a Python compiler
> distributed as part of the language. It doesn't matter if it doesn't
> support the full generality of Python, or eve
On Thu, Dec 09, 2004, Dennis Allison wrote:
>
> And, parenthetically, I continue to be amazed at the number of projects
> that use Python, but do it in stealth-mode and view it as their
> silver-bullet and competative edge. I wish more people would publish
> their experience.
http://www.paulgraha
On Dec 9, 2004, at 4:20 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
On Thu, 2004-12-09 at 10:30, Phillip J. Eby wrote:
ISTR that for a long time, Visual Basic actually did the same thing.
A few
magazines mentioned the fact, but nobody really cared. However, if
this is
really a concern, bundle Pyrex as well. Both
On Thu, 2004-12-09 at 10:30, Phillip J. Eby wrote:
> ISTR that for a long time, Visual Basic actually did the same thing. A few
> magazines mentioned the fact, but nobody really cared. However, if this is
> really a concern, bundle Pyrex as well. Both Pyrex and py2exe are
> distutils-based,
On Wed, 2004-12-08 at 17:39 -0500, Phillip J. Eby wrote:
> The only thing that will fix the PR issue is to have a Python compiler
> distributed as part of the language. It doesn't matter if it doesn't
> support the full generality of Python, or even if it doesn't speed many
> operations up muc
The goal here is to make Python better known and to counter some of the
prevalent myths. One way to accomplish this goal is to publish literate
technical articles with real content including performance measurements
and pointers to the code. Perhaps Guido could be a real-life N. Bourbaki
and co-
On 2004-12-09, at 15.07, Scott David Daniels wrote:
Oleg Broytmann wrote:
Raymond Hettinger wrote:
* Python's website has traditionally been self-centered, leaving
others
to have to make the case for their own products. Perhaps, it is
time to
change that. Those who really care about speed canno
On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 14:16:18 -0500, James Y Knight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Dec 9, 2004, at 1:31 PM, Phillip J. Eby wrote:
> > Isn't it funny, by the way, that people don't go around talking about
> > how slow Jython is? At least, I haven't seen it to the extent that
> > I've seen with CPyth
Michael Hudson wrote:
> Anthony's Australian, people expect this sort of thing from him :)
As another Australian, I think that "Making Python Not Suck" implies
that if you don't do extra things, Python Sucks.
This is not a good thing IMO.
"Making Python Suck Less" would be even worse.
How abou
On Dec 9, 2004, at 1:31 PM, Phillip J. Eby wrote:
Isn't it funny, by the way, that people don't go around talking about
how slow Jython is? At least, I haven't seen it to the extent that
I've seen with CPython.
People talk about how slow CPython is, is because they are writing code
targeted for
At 04:39 PM 12/9/04 +, Gareth McCaughan wrote:
On Wednesday 2004-12-08 22:39, Phillip J. Eby wrote:
> The only thing that will fix the PR issue is to have a Python compiler
> distributed as part of the language. It doesn't matter if it doesn't
> support the full generality of Python, or even i
"Robert Brewer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Anthony Baxter wrote:
>> FWIW, I was planning on writing a tutorial (working title:
>> "Making Python Code Not Suck") for some conference
>> or another...
>
> Perhaps, given your high profile in the Python developer community, you
> might reconsider th
Anthony Baxter wrote:
> FWIW, I was planning on writing a tutorial (working title:
> "Making Python Code Not Suck") for some conference
> or another...
Perhaps, given your high profile in the Python developer community, you
might reconsider the title? Little details like that are what PR is made
o
>> I've been trying to get Tile to work with python.
>> It can make your tkinter apps look like
>> http://tktable.sourceforge.net/tile/screenshots/demo-alt-unix.png
>> See http://tktable.sourceforge.net/tile/
>
> Sorry, this is not a good place to get Python support; python-dev is for
> people acti
> The other thing that might work is to change the name of the language
> to "C" plus optional punctuation.
You mean "C@@" (pronounced C-pie-pie)?
Bill
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On Wednesday 2004-12-08 22:39, Phillip J. Eby wrote:
[Guido:]
>> One thing that bugs me: the article says 3 or 4 times that Python is
>> slow, each time with a refutation ("but it's so flexible", "but it's
>> fast enough") but still, they sure seem to harp on the point. This is
>> a PR issue that
At 01:17 PM 12/9/04 +0300, Oleg Broytmann wrote:
On Wed, Dec 08, 2004 at 08:30:02PM -0500, Phillip J. Eby wrote:
> As I explained later in that message, "native" simply means, "has an .exe
> extension on Windows".
And very soon that strategy will backfire - people will start PRing
"but those .ex
On Thu, Dec 09, 2004, Stephen Kennedy wrote:
>
> I've been trying to get Tile to work with python.
> It can make your tkinter apps look like
> http://tktable.sourceforge.net/tile/screenshots/demo-alt-unix.png
> See http://tktable.sourceforge.net/tile/
Sorry, this is not a good place to get Python
FWIW, I was planning on writing a tutorial (working title:
"Making Python Code Not Suck") for some conference
or another... talked to a bunch of people last week at
OSDC, and it seems like something people are interested
in. Got a bunch of stuff already down from various notes
I've written in the
On Thu, Dec 09, 2004 at 06:07:41AM -0800, Scott David Daniels wrote:
> Oleg Broytmann wrote:
> > That's overreaction, I think.
>
> Perhaps a link on the main page
Why on the main page? There are Topics Guide at
http://python.org/topics/ that describes the ways Python can be used in
some popu
Oleg Broytmann wrote:
Raymond Hettinger wrote:
* Python's website has traditionally been self-centered, leaving others
to have to make the case for their own products. Perhaps, it is time to
change that. Those who really care about speed cannot make a balanced
decision about Python without consid
On Thursday 09 December 2004 14:55, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> * Have python.org prominently feature an article of Python's use in
> high-performance environments. IIRC, somebody wrote a realtime voice
> over internet system and found that with good design, there was no speed
> issue. Also, the c
I've been trying to get Tile to work with python.
It can make your tkinter apps look like
http://tktable.sourceforge.net/tile/screenshots/demo-alt-unix.png
See http://tktable.sourceforge.net/tile/
Under linux I built tile from source, installed and it just works.
import Tkinter
root = Tkinter.Tk
On Thu, Dec 09, 2004, Michiel Jan Laurens de Hoon wrote:
>
> My suggestion is therefore to replace PyOS_InputHook by two functions
> PyOS_AddInputHook and PyOS_RemoveInputHook, and let Python keep track of
> which hooks are installed. This way, an extension module can add a hook
> function without
On Wed, Dec 08, 2004 at 10:55:59PM -0500, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> * Have python.org prominently feature an article of Python's use in
> high-performance environments. IIRC, somebody wrote a realtime voice
> over internet system and found that with good design, there was no speed
> issue. Also,
On Wed, Dec 08, 2004 at 08:30:02PM -0500, Phillip J. Eby wrote:
> As I explained later in that message, "native" simply means, "has an .exe
> extension on Windows".
And very soon that strategy will backfire - people will start PRing
"but those .exe's are nothing more than a python interpreter
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