[issue11948] Tutorial/Modules - small fix to better clarify the modules search path

Terry J. Reedy added the comment: Definitely out-of-scope for the tutorial. I consider this akin to monkey patching imported modules. -- ___ Python tracker ___

[issue11948] Tutorial/Modules - small fix to better clarify the modules search path

Eric Snow added the comment: FYI: unless importlib took undue liberties (unlikely), frozen modules also precede path-based modules. See the implicit additions to sys.meta_path in Lib/importlib/_bootstrap.py. Whether or not to include a mention of frozen modules in the tutorial...I'll leave

[issue11948] Tutorial/Modules - small fix to better clarify the modules search path

Sandro Tosi added the comment: Thanks Terry for the ping, I've just committed it - thanks again to everyone for the help/suggestions. -- resolution: -> fixed stage: commit review -> committed/rejected status: open -> closed ___ Python tracker

[issue11948] Tutorial/Modules - small fix to better clarify the modules search path

Roundup Robot added the comment: New changeset d01208ba482f by Sandro Tosi in branch '2.7': Issue #11948: clarify modules search path http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/d01208ba482f New changeset 6d663db63705 by Sandro Tosi in branch '3.2': Issue #11948: clarify modules search path http://hg.pyth

[issue11948] Tutorial/Modules - small fix to better clarify the modules search path

Terry J. Reedy added the comment: Sandro, I think you can apply this. -- versions: -Python 3.1 ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bug

[issue11948] Tutorial/Modules - small fix to better clarify the modules search path

Éric Araujo added the comment: I think I’d better leave this one to Terry or Raymond. -- ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list

[issue11948] Tutorial/Modules - small fix to better clarify the modules search path

Changes by Terry J. Reedy : -- stage: patch review -> commit review ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscri

[issue11948] Tutorial/Modules - small fix to better clarify the modules search path

Terry J. Reedy added the comment: Sandro, thank you for sticking with this. Seemingly simples issues sometimes 'explode' a bit. Having reviewed the patch, I think the it is ready to be committed. Éric: if you were to commit this and, in the process, wanted to change sys.path back to 'this mo

[issue11948] Tutorial/Modules - small fix to better clarify the modules search path

Éric Araujo added the comment: > First, I dislike 'This allows' on stylistic grounds Fully agreed, sir! > The whole paragraph is about sys.path, so it is not an hidden detail. It may be that I miss context; I don’t actually know whether the paragraph is only about sys.path or about module sear

[issue11948] Tutorial/Modules - small fix to better clarify the modules search path

Terry J. Reedy added the comment: I disagree (else I would not have suggested change ;-). First, I dislike 'This allows' on stylistic grounds, when there is a better alternative. It is rather wishy-washy: 'this allows' -- so what? As for the rest -- why not be specific? The whole paragraph is

[issue11948] Tutorial/Modules - small fix to better clarify the modules search path

Éric Araujo added the comment: About Terry’s suggestion to change "This allows Python programs to modify or replace the module search path" to "After initialization, Python programs can modify sys.path": IMO the old text is talking about intent (modify the module search path) and the replacem

[issue11948] Tutorial/Modules - small fix to better clarify the modules search path

Sandro Tosi added the comment: I first would like to apologize if my comments were interpreted like I'd like to do a poor quality job, that's actually the opposite! I just get caught by surprise how a simple change in a word to better join two paragraphs grows up like this - but that's perfec

[issue11948] Tutorial/Modules - small fix to better clarify the modules search path

Raymond Hettinger added the comment: See http://bugs.python.org/issue12047 -- ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing lis

[issue11948] Tutorial/Modules - small fix to better clarify the modules search path

Georg Brandl added the comment: +1 to the guidance, and to adding it to the doc style chapter. -- nosy: +georg.brandl ___ Python tracker ___

[issue11948] Tutorial/Modules - small fix to better clarify the modules search path

Terry J. Reedy added the comment: I agree with both Raymond and David's suggestion. -- ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list ma

[issue11948] Tutorial/Modules - small fix to better clarify the modules search path

R. David Murray added the comment: Raymond: yes, thanks for the clear guidance. Perhaps it could be added to Documenting Python, perhaps in the Style Guide chapter? -- ___ Python tracker

[issue11948] Tutorial/Modules - small fix to better clarify the modules search path

Terry J. Reedy added the comment: Sandro, import is a somewhat dark corner of Python that newcomers and even experienced people ofter trip over. So getting the text both correct and clear is worth some thought. I just noticed that the text is only true for Python-coded modules and not for bu

[issue11948] Tutorial/Modules - small fix to better clarify the modules search path

Sandro Tosi added the comment: Raymond, thanks for explaining the reasoning behind your replies, it really helps me understand the "spirit" behind python :) That said, and trying to be a bit more pragmatical, what are the next steps to make this patch acceptable? It's kinda of a small patch,

[issue11948] Tutorial/Modules - small fix to better clarify the modules search path

Raymond Hettinger added the comment: One other stylistic note. The tone of the tutorial (and all the docs) needs to be respectful of the readers intelligence. We don't presume that the readers are stupid. We lay out the relevant information, show motivating use cases, provide glossary link

[issue11948] Tutorial/Modules - small fix to better clarify the modules search path

Raymond Hettinger added the comment: The tutorial is meant for newcomers. The experience needs to be positive and not leave the reader with worries that something bad will happen if they make a misstep. People commonly use the tutorial to evaluate the language as a whole. The tutorial need

[issue11948] Tutorial/Modules - small fix to better clarify the modules search path

R. David Murray added the comment: Raymond: I haven't read the examples in detail so I don't have an opinion on the appropriateness of the text, but I'm curious: while what you say certainly applies to the Language Reference, does it also apply to the Tutorial? -- nosy: +r.david.murra

[issue11948] Tutorial/Modules - small fix to better clarify the modules search path

Sandro Tosi added the comment: Sorry Raymond for the bad editing, I was confused by thinking 'tutorial' is particularly meant for new-coming people. Anyhow, sorry again: I attach a patch removing the badworded part. Please let me know if anything else is missing or needs fixing. Thanks for y

[issue11948] Tutorial/Modules - small fix to better clarify the modules search path

Raymond Hettinger added the comment: Please don't make these kind of changes. Guido has been clear that the docs need to affirmatively state what the language does. Except for certain security risks or segfault risks, the docs should avoid wording along the lines of "feature x is dangerous

[issue11948] Tutorial/Modules - small fix to better clarify the modules search path

Sandro Tosi added the comment: What about the attached (v3) patch? the "This allows...experts hands." part can be remove completely if can be mis-interpreted. -- Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file21944/issue11948-v3.patch ___ Python tracker

[issue11948] Tutorial/Modules - small fix to better clarify the modules search path

Ezio Melotti added the comment: s/``sys.path``/:data:`sys.path`/ (or whatever turns that into a link). I also don't like the "Python programs that know what they're doing" bit. The list of places where the modules are searched could be a bullet list. -- nosy: +ezio.melotti

[issue11948] Tutorial/Modules - small fix to better clarify the modules search path

Sandro Tosi added the comment: Here's attached the patch including Terry's suggestion (gaah, sorry for this late reply). -- Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file21913/issue11948-v2.patch ___ Python tracker

[issue11948] Tutorial/Modules - small fix to better clarify the modules search path

Éric Araujo added the comment: One caveat to Terry’s suggestion: never ever change the case of a Python identifier or keyword (“Sys”). -- nosy: +eric.araujo ___ Python tracker

[issue11948] Tutorial/Modules - small fix to better clarify the modules search path

Terry J. Reedy added the comment: I believe the patch produces the following as the first sentence "When a module named :mod:`spam` is imported, the interpreter searches for a file named :file:`spam.py` in a list of directories given by the variable ``sys.path`` which is initialized from the

[issue11948] Tutorial/Modules - small fix to better clarify the modules search path

Changes by Sandro Tosi : Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file21836/issue11948.patch ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing lis

[issue11948] Tutorial/Modules - small fix to better clarify the modules search path

Sandro Tosi added the comment: Hi Raymond, thanks for looking into it! What do you think of this patch? I tried to save what I think was nice in the first paragraph and collapse it into the second one. -- ___ Python tracker

[issue11948] Tutorial/Modules - small fix to better clarify the modules search path

Raymond Hettinger added the comment: It would be better to drop the introductory phrase entirely. -- nosy: +rhettinger priority: normal -> low ___ Python tracker ___ ___

[issue11948] Tutorial/Modules - small fix to better clarify the modules search path

New submission from Sandro Tosi : Following up http://mail.python.org/pipermail/docs/2011-April/004029.html here's a small patch (applicable on all the active branches) to "actually" :) connects the two paragraphs about modules search path. -- assignee: docs@python components: Document