Re: Usability issue in the task bar applet

2013-05-23 Thread Mark
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 1:07 AM, Eike Hein wrote: > > >> I just browsed through the QML and i must say, the QML looks >> surprisingly simple and certainly not long for something as >> complicated as the taskbar. Also, using a tooltip proxy is really >> neat. I was struggling with the tooltip code

Re: Usability issue in the task bar applet

2013-05-22 Thread Eike Hein
I just browsed through the QML and i must say, the QML looks > surprisingly simple and certainly not long for something as > complicated as the taskbar. Also, using a tooltip proxy is really > neat. I was struggling with the tooltip code before but gave up due to > various reasons. > Thanks, it's

Re: Usability issue in the task bar applet

2013-05-22 Thread Mark
On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 11:18 PM, Eike Hein wrote: > >> Where is your branch anyway? Or is it still private on your computer only? >> ;) > > > No, otherwise Aaron couldn't have reported to have tried it. > > It's at clones/kde-workspace/hein/kde-workspace for quite some time now. > > > Cheers, > E

Re: Usability issue in the task bar applet

2013-05-21 Thread Eike Hein
> Where is your branch anyway? Or is it still private on your computer only? > ;) > No, otherwise Aaron couldn't have reported to have tried it. It's at clones/kde-workspace/hein/kde-workspacefor quite some time now.

Re: Usability issue in the task bar applet

2013-05-21 Thread Mark
On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Eike Hein wrote: > >> >> btw.. when can we merge your branch? we are up against the soft feature >> freeze >> for 4.11 now. > > > I had been hoping to make soft freeze, but due to other commitments I've > been > delayed a bit further - and today there's more Folde

Re: Usability issue in the task bar applet

2013-05-21 Thread Eike Hein
> having tried your replacement out, it already works reasonably well. i'd > like > to see it merged into master sooner rather than later so we can get the > other > developers at least testing it and so we can compile a list of showstopper > issues, if any actually exist. > I understand and actua

Re: Usability issue in the task bar applet

2013-05-21 Thread Aaron J. Seigo
On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 12:39:35 Eike Hein wrote: > So while I'm getting nervous as well I have to ask for a little more > waiting un- > fortunately, so I can get the remaining bits integrated properly. > Fortunately we're > in the feature plan so we can take it to hard freeze, as unpretty as that

Re: Usability issue in the task bar applet

2013-05-21 Thread Marco Martin
On Tuesday 21 May 2013 12:30:26 Aaron J. Seigo wrote: > i would LOVE to have a way to accurately gauge a statistically significant > agglomeration of user experience on such things as the inherently selfish > first- person POV (which each of us has) is utterly useless as design > input. > > we hav

Re: Usability issue in the task bar applet

2013-05-21 Thread Eike Hein
> > btw.. when can we merge your branch? we are up against the soft feature > freeze > for 4.11 now. I had been hoping to make soft freeze, but due to other commitments I've been delayed a bit further - and today there's more Folder View stuff to do as well, it seems. So while I'm getting nervou

Re: Usability issue in the task bar applet

2013-05-21 Thread Veeti Paananen
On 21/05/13 13:03, Eike Hein wrote: > FWIW, IMHO the real problem there is that the task manager uses the generic > Disabled icon effect via KIconEffects, instead of using the "Panel" > category. If > it used the proper category, the user could disable this effect > specifically only > for the pane

Re: Usability issue in the task bar applet

2013-05-21 Thread Marco Martin
On Tuesday 21 May 2013 12:28:31 Eike Hein wrote: > > i'm fine with bringing back some colour to the icons to aid such people. > > painting it with some alpha might work nicely to preserve both indication > > of > > minimization and preserving colour cues. > > Hm, I'll experiment a bit and see if t

Re: Usability issue in the task bar applet

2013-05-21 Thread Aaron J. Seigo
On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 12:26:44 Eike Hein wrote: > But I'm not keen on adding a widget-level config checkbox for this behavior > either personally, so it's a dilemma. just make something that is reasonably good. you will never please everyone with the tasks widget, but you can make life good fo

Re: Usability issue in the task bar applet

2013-05-21 Thread Aaron J. Seigo
On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 12:28:31 Eike Hein wrote: > > i'm fine with bringing back some colour to the icons to aid such people. > > painting it with some alpha might work nicely to preserve both indication > > of > > minimization and preserving colour cues. > > Hm, I'll experiment a bit and see if

Re: Usability issue in the task bar applet

2013-05-21 Thread Aaron J. Seigo
On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 11:59:03 Veeti Paananen wrote: > Please reconsider this behavior. It has very little utility yet it > causes many issues. i've described a possible solution in another email. so hopefully we can improve this a bit in 4.11 with the QML replacement. sidenote 1: often whe

Re: Usability issue in the task bar applet

2013-05-21 Thread Eike Hein
> i'm fine with bringing back some colour to the icons to aid such people. > painting it with some alpha might work nicely to preserve both indication > of > minimization and preserving colour cues. Hm, I'll experiment a bit and see if there's a compromise variant that looks decent. _

Re: Usability issue in the task bar applet

2013-05-21 Thread Veeti Paananen
On 21/05/13 12:56, Martin Gräßlin wrote: > I must say that the screenshot really looks like not being translucent. So > you > might have hit a problem that in a composited environment Plasma picks the > non-composited background. Can you please confirm that you see a visual > difference in the

Re: Usability issue in the task bar applet

2013-05-21 Thread Eike Hein
> > imho this is not a good solution. the idea of "icons in the panel" is > broken > in a number of ways: the icons may not only be in the panel at all, there > is > no "the" panel (or put another way: panels may have very different > purposes), > etc. the icon handling reflects how things were a d

Re: Usability issue in the task bar applet

2013-05-21 Thread Aaron J. Seigo
On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 12:08:09 Eike Hein wrote: > He's right though, this is entirely unrelated to using desktop effects or > not, > and that the icons of minimized icons get desaturized as of 4.10, with no > good way to disable that behavior, is indeed quite unpopular over in #kde. nearly ever

Re: Re: Re: Usability issue in the task bar applet

2013-05-21 Thread Eike Hein
> > good way to disable that behavior, is indeed quite unpopular over in > #kde. > it is relevant. If it works fine in the composited setup, then the problem > is > not that it's put to grayscale, but that the contrast in the non-composited > setup is too bad. Which would mean that should be fixed.

Re: Re: Re: Usability issue in the task bar applet

2013-05-21 Thread Martin Gräßlin
On Tuesday 21 May 2013 12:08:09 Eike Hein wrote: > He's right though, this is entirely unrelated to using desktop effects or > not, > and that the icons of minimized icons get desaturized as of 4.10, with no > good way to disable that behavior, is indeed quite unpopular over in #kde. it is relevant

Re: Usability issue in the task bar applet

2013-05-21 Thread Aaron J. Seigo
On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 12:03:53 Eike Hein wrote: > FWIW, IMHO the real problem there is that the task manager uses the generic > Disabled icon effect via KIconEffects, instead of using the "Panel" > category. If imho this is not a good solution. the idea of "icons in the panel" is broken in a n

Re: Re: Usability issue in the task bar applet

2013-05-21 Thread Eike Hein
He's right though, this is entirely unrelated to using desktop effects or not, and that the icons of minimized icons get desaturized as of 4.10, with no good way to disable that behavior, is indeed quite unpopular over in #kde. The main reason being given is that users rely on telling windows apar

Re: Usability issue in the task bar applet

2013-05-21 Thread Eike Hein
FWIW, IMHO the real problem there is that the task manager uses the generic Disabled icon effect via KIconEffects, instead of using the "Panel" category. If it used the proper category, the user could disable this effect specifically only for the panel via Icons -> Advanced in System Settings. Unf

Re: Re: Usability issue in the task bar applet

2013-05-21 Thread Martin Gräßlin
On Tuesday 21 May 2013 12:31:19 Veeti Paananen wrote: > On 21/05/13 12:26, Martin Gräßlin wrote: > > if I interpret the screenshots correctly you are not using Desktop > > Effects, > > right? > > I am using desktop effects. Disabling them makes no difference. I must say that the screenshot really

Re: Usability issue in the task bar applet

2013-05-21 Thread Veeti Paananen
On 21/05/13 12:26, Martin Gräßlin wrote: > if I interpret the screenshots correctly you are not using Desktop Effects, > right? I am using desktop effects. Disabling them makes no difference. ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://m

Re: Usability issue in the task bar applet

2013-05-21 Thread Martin Gräßlin
On Tuesday 21 May 2013 11:59:03 Veeti Paananen wrote: > The default task bar Plasma applet ("tasks") has a very irritating > behavior with minimized windows. When a window is minimized, its task > bar entry and icon are given a grayscale and transparency effect. See > screenshots [1] and [2]. if I

Usability issue in the task bar applet

2013-05-21 Thread Veeti Paananen
The default task bar Plasma applet ("tasks") has a very irritating behavior with minimized windows. When a window is minimized, its task bar entry and icon are given a grayscale and transparency effect. See screenshots [1] and [2]. Although this may sound like a good idea in theory, it's terrible