Re: Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff, IMPORTANT FIXUP

On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 8:15 AM, Rick Stockton < rickstock...@reno-computerhelp.com> wrote: > I'll top post this one: > > OOPS! And PLEASE ignore my post, in Vol 45/Issue 46, where I talked about > this being requiring "just an easy change": This requires no changes at > all. It's already support

Re: Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff, IMPORTANT FIXUP

I'll top post this one: OOPS! And PLEASE ignore my post, in Vol 45/Issue 46, where I talked about this being requiring "just an easy change": This requires no changes at all. It's already supported, and it even works back in 4.7.4. (Maybe earlier, but 4.7.4 is the ea

Re: Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

On 03/18/2012 05:27 AM, Mark wrote: On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 1:56 AM, Xavier Sythe wrote: As far as I can recall, it was decided that the "back button" would be implemented in the new Kickoff as support for the mous

Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 1:56 AM, Xavier Sythe wrote: > As far as I can recall, it was decided that the "back button" would be > implemented in the new Kickoff as support for the mouse's "back button", as > well as support for the "backspace" key, in conjunction with the other > keyboard navigatio

Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

As far as I can recall, it was decided that the "back button" would be implemented in the new Kickoff as support for the mouse's "back button", as well as support for the "backspace" key, in conjunction with the other keyboard navigation. (arrow keys) I would appreciate Martin and Aaron's confirma

Re: Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

Hello, well if there is going to be a QML version ... then the solution is simple since you just have to change the QML file if you don't like the default solution. Regards, Djuro Drljaca On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 1:54 PM, Mark wrote: > On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 12:59 PM, Martin Gräßlin wrote: > >

Re: Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 12:59 PM, Martin Gräßlin wrote: > this is my last mail to this thread > > On Friday 16 March 2012 12:29:45 Mark wrote: > > Things have changed quite a bit between the last discussion and now. Back > > then the KDE version had both the breadcrumbs and the back button. Right

Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

On Friday, March 16, 2012 12:29:45 Mark wrote: > but others might think differently. here is the most useful bit of all three emails so far in the resurrected thread. there is going to be no "right answer" because no matter what the choice is someone will differ. if we have both ways? "it's clu

Re: Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

this is my last mail to this thread On Friday 16 March 2012 12:29:45 Mark wrote: > Things have changed quite a bit between the last discussion and now. Back > then the KDE version had both the breadcrumbs and the back button. Right > now we have a new KDE version that only has the breadcrumbs. So

Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 11:47 AM, Martin Gräßlin wrote: > Hi Mihai, > > there has already been a lengthy discussion about breadcrumbs in Kickoff > back > in December [1]. > > I don't think anyone is interested in having yet another discussion about > that > topic. > > Thanks. > > Martin Gräßlin >

Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

Hi Mihai, there has already been a lengthy discussion about breadcrumbs in Kickoff back in December [1]. I don't think anyone is interested in having yet another discussion about that topic. Thanks. Martin Gräßlin [1] http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/plasma-devel/2011-December/018184.html On Thu

Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 12:46 PM, Marco Martin wrote: > On Saturday 31 December 2011, Martin Gräßlin wrote: >> > if the breadcrumbs are moved to the left and/or get a specialized visual >> > treatment (neither of which are bad ideas imho) then the other headers >> > should similarly be adjusted fo

Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

On Saturday 31 December 2011, Martin Gräßlin wrote: > > if the breadcrumbs are moved to the left and/or get a specialized visual > > treatment (neither of which are bad ideas imho) then the other headers > > should similarly be adjusted for consistency across the tabs. > > so far I synchronized th

Re: Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

On Saturday 31 December 2011 09:30:25 Aaron J. Seigo wrote: > On Wednesday, December 28, 2011 09:42:35 Martin =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gr=E4=DFlin?= > > Yes and that's why I moved it to the left in the new implementation. > > note that this then puts it in a different location to all the other headers > in

Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

On Wednesday, December 28, 2011 09:42:35 Martin =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gr=E4=DFlin?= > Yes and that's why I moved it to the left in the new implementation. note that this then puts it in a different location to all the other headers in the other tabs. so you switch from Favourites to Applications -> hea

Re: Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

On Tuesday 27 December 2011 23:36:54 Matthew Dawson wrote: > 1) The back button was a much larger button to hit. > According to Fitt's Law[1], the smaller a target is to hit, the longer > it > takes. The breadcrumbs, being smaller, decreases the speed at which someone > can hit the target.

Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

On Tuesday 20 December 2011 17:54:02 Martin Gräßlin wrote: > Up to now nobody gave a proper reason *why* we should add a back button. > Just because we can is no reason, sorry. > First, I understand that the back button is gone and I'm not advocating its return. I do think I understand why the

Re: Re: Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

On Tuesday 27 December 2011 20:16:48 Kevin Kofler wrote: > Martin Gräßlin wrote: > > Which significant number of critical comments? How many users have > > commented here in the thread and reported bugs? 5? 10? 20? We are talking > > about a feature which will be used by millions of users. If we ge

Re: Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

Martin Gräßlin wrote: > Which significant number of critical comments? How many users have > commented here in the thread and reported bugs? 5? 10? 20? We are talking > about a feature which will be used by millions of users. If we get to a > thousand users complaining we can start to think about s

Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

Rick Stockton wrote: > Alexey, you have two of KDE's smartest people (Aaron and Martin) in > agreement that we probably want to provide this via the "Back" Button on > the Mouse. (Less new code, less confusion, less maintenance headache.) That assumes that the mouse has such a nonstandard button i

Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

On 21 дек 2011 08:25:03 Martin Gräßlin wrote: > but that's the point. Now in a month someone else wants something completely > different. Then it's still not the perfect idea to fork Kickoff because of > one function. A month later the next config option creeps in and another > one and another one.

Re: Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

On 01/-10/-28163 11:59 AM, Xavier Sythe wrote: Alexey made several valid points << SNIP >> Regardless of whether the back button is reinstated, I will support adding the mouse's back button as a way to go back. The back button is a staple of modern UI, featured prominently in all file/web

Re: Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

On Wednesday 21 December 2011 21:33:52 Martin Klapetek wrote: > To play the devil's advocate here - as the main reason against bringing it > back is mostly the increased code complexity, then if you add whole support > for additional mouse buttons that actually trigger the back action, which is jus

Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 21:07, Alexey Chernov <4er...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 20 дек 2011 19:31:06 Rick Stockton wrote: > > Alexey, you have two of KDE's smartest people (Aaron and Martin) in > > agreement that we probably want to provide this via the "Back" Button on > > the Mouse. (Less new code,

Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

Xavier, while I also want the back button back, it seems to me that you miss several important points: As for the notion that most prominent KDE apps don't possess back buttons, > there are actually quite a few examples, such as Konqueror/Rekonq, the > "System Settings" application, and Dolphin. >

Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

On 20 дек 2011 19:31:06 Rick Stockton wrote: > Alexey, you have two of KDE's smartest people (Aaron and Martin) in > agreement that we probably want to provide this via the "Back" Button on > the Mouse. (Less new code, less confusion, less maintenance headache.) > That's the option on the table, wi

Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

Alexey made several valid points. It's not a question of whether or not to "add" a back button, it's a question of whether or not to restore it. If it's a question of redundancy, one might argue that the new breadcrumb navigation could be removed in favour of the classic back button. After all,

Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

this is my last email on the matter as i refuse to allow "decision by endless discussion" and acceptable means of resolution have been put forward. On Wednesday, December 21, 2011 00:51:45 Alexey Chernov wrote: > > plasmoids, including the tasks plasmoid (and that's ended up turning out > > rathe

Re: Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

On Wednesday 21 December 2011 00:51:45 Alexey Chernov wrote: > On 20 дек 2011 11:20:23 Aaron J. Seigo wrote: > > On Tuesday, December 20, 2011 00:33:20 4ernov wrote: > > > unclear why you so against to approve such a work. > > > > i think it is perfectly fine if you wish to create a modified kickof

Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

On 01/-10/-28163 11:59 AM, Alexey Chernov wrote: As to me, my solution is: keep both Back button and breadcrumbs. Here's my arguments: - no config and no tweaks required - users can use both ways - no redundancy or duplication as it's just two methods to reach the same result (there're thousands

Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

On 20 дек 2011 11:20:23 Aaron J. Seigo wrote: > On Tuesday, December 20, 2011 00:33:20 4ernov wrote: > > unclear why you so against to approve such a work. > > i think it is perfectly fine if you wish to create a modified kickoff and > ship it as a separate plasmoid. this is what we've done for a

Re: Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

On Tuesday 20 December 2011 00:33:20 4ernov wrote: > I also can't see a reason to be so much against any suggestion on > improve the situation with Back button itself. If it's a question of > resources to implement e.g. a config option than, for example I can > work at it. I think nobody wants to s

Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

On Tuesday, December 20, 2011 00:33:20 4ernov wrote: > unclear why you so against to approve such a work. i think it is perfectly fine if you wish to create a modified kickoff and ship it as a separate plasmoid. this is what we've done for a few different plasmoids, including the tasks plasmoid

Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

I'll answer to Martin Gräßlin to move discussion from the certain bug report (http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=274489) here to keep the whole discussion in one place. > > Very interesting discussion in plasma-devel but I personally didn't find any > > arguments why the 'Back' button is bad but

Re: Re: Re: Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

On 01/-10/-28163 11:59 AM, Martin Gräßlin wrote: Hey Rick, On Sunday 18 December 2011 09:29:36 Rick Stockton wrote: > On 01/-10/-28163 11:59 AM, Aaron J. Seigo wrote: > > Aaron, my words were unclear. If you and Ma

Re: Re: Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

Hey Rick, On Sunday 18 December 2011 09:29:36 Rick Stockton wrote: > On 01/-10/-28163 11:59 AM, Aaron J. Seigo wrote: > > Aaron, my words were unclear. If you and Martin are willing to put this > into the 4.8.x Series, it CAN be done, but we _must_ use the name which > already exists. 'Xbutton1' =

Re: Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

On 01/-10/-28163 11:59 AM, Aaron J. Seigo wrote: Aaron, my words were unclear. If you and Martin are willing to put this into the 4.8.x Series, it CAN be done, but we _must_ use the name which already exists. 'Xbutton1' == the Back Button, the other two names will be synonyms for 'XButton1' in

Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

On Saturday, December 17, 2011 16:12:18 Rick Stockton wrote: > The names 'BackButton and 'ExtraButton1' aren't defined until Qt5, but > 'XButton1' is already present in Qt 4.7 (and many earlier 4.x Releases, as > well). Implementing this, Xavier (and others) would be able to buy and use > a mouse w

Re: Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

Martin, I have an idea- even though I never even looked at Kickoff. (Before writing this, I SHOULD have looked - but I don't have time right now.) It seems to me that all of the layout issues, and the GUI focus issues, of doing a GUI "back button" can be avoided: Just lis

Re: Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 5:02 PM, Martin Klapetek wrote: > So if we went down the road of making kickoff less > "deep", then imho breadcrumb looses its purpose and back button would be > just enough. I don't think this is possible. The application directory structure is defined by distributions,

Re: Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 4:18 PM, Martin Gräßlin wrote: >> Would you support removing the back button from Dolphin, in favour of just >> breadcrumbs? >> I doubt that anyone would support that. > I thought about it and I had to open Dolphin to verify that there is a back > button at all. I doubt I h

Re: Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 17:02, Martin Klapetek wrote: > > Having both types in kickoff at the same time seems a bit wrong to me too. > Having an option to switch that on the other hand would be more sensible. I > would suggest to find someone who can implement it in Martin's newest > kickoff branc

Re: Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

Hi, I don't have any strong opinions to either solution, but I just want to state my views on this discussion. > > It's a simple fact that it requires less mouse movement, > If you state "facts" you have to prove them. Where is your usability study > showing that a movement to the left is bett

Re: Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

Hi, given that I basically told you not to write developers personally, I do not understand why you sent the mail to me instead of the mailinglist. I forwared your mail to the mailinglist and please send further mails also to the list if you are really interested in discussing this. Please also d

Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

Actually, the breadcrumbs don't really need to be removed. I merely see the need to reinstate the back button. "I personally do not see any need for the back button any more." It's mostly a user experience perspective. It's a simple fact that it requires less mouse movement, hence, less time, to

Re: Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

On Thursday 08 December 2011 16:01:33 Xavier Sythe wrote: > Nearly two months ago, I contacted him, and asked him to reverse the > controversial commit. > He has yet to reply. Please understand that not each developer has the time to answer personal requests. You state yourself that it is controver