Re: [mailop] DNSBL List

> On 19 Dec 2024, at 18:52, Grant Taylor via mailop wrote: > > On 12/19/24 6:56 AM, Scott Q. via mailop wrote: >> I think you are underestimating spammers. > > Maybe. > >> In my experience, spammers have much better configured spamming domains >> sporting proper SPF and whatnot than a lot of

Re: [mailop] DNSBL List

On 12/19/24 6:56 AM, Scott Q. via mailop wrote: I think you are underestimating spammers. Maybe. In my experience, spammers have much better configured spamming domains sporting proper SPF and whatnot than a lot of legitimate hosts... I agree. They are much more motivated to get their mes

Re: [mailop] DNSBL List

Yep, you got it. ​>>  There are also spamtrap operators that accept mail on mistyped domains (for example the shady no-name "mail.h-email.net" operators), in which case it's basically unavoidable that there will be some hits (due to the sheer amount of domains that can be mistyped) that likely fee

Re: [mailop] DNSBL List

I think you are underestimating spammers. In my experience, spammers have much better configured spamming domains sporting proper SPF and whatnot than a lot of legitimate hosts... They are much more motivated to get their messages across. ​ Scott​ On Wednesday, 18/12/2024 at 22:32 Grant Taylor vi

Re: [mailop] DNSBL List

On 19/12/2024 02:41, L. Mark Stone via mailop wrote: Also, again, no disrespect, but I don't see anything wrong with the DNSBL's suggestion for you to grep your logs for undeliverable outgoing messages within a certain timeframe. Seems sensible and quite helpful as they've given you a specifi

Re: [mailop] DNSBL List

On 18/12/2024 16:00, Gellner, Oliver via mailop wrote: The last two times an IP address which we are responsible for was explicitly listed by Spamhaus, Spamhaus said that this was due to a misconfiguration in their side. So we could have searched our logs forever without finding a malicious me

Re: [mailop] DNSBL List

Dnia 19.12.2024 o godz. 00:41:58 L. Mark Stone via mailop pisze: > they've given you a specific timeframe in which to search, and a specific > bounce message for which to search. Did they really? From Scott's email I had the impression that they didn't give him a *specific* message to search for

Re: [mailop] DNSBL List

Am Wed, 18 Dec 2024 18:24:06 -0500 schrieb "Scott Q. via mailop" : > I simply wanted a way to find out who the abusers were so I can > solve the problem. I didn't want a removal, automatic or not. > > Not co-operating with ESPs about who the offenders are​​ doesn't > really help solve anything. I

Re: [mailop] DNSBL List

On Wed, 18 Dec 2024 16:26:34 -0500, "Scott Q. via mailop" wrote: >But why is it bad if legitimate hosting providers know which of >their accounts is abused so they can take action and fix the problem ? If you are paying attention to the activities of the clients on your network, you will know wh

Re: [mailop] DNSBL List

On 12/18/24 18:21, Scott Q. via mailop wrote: So basically instead of saying: here, look for e-mails sent to sdfdfgfgdg...@myrbl.com  , they say: grep your logs and find a hard bounce around with a distinctive message - and therefore I also find their 'secret' s

Re: [mailop] DNSBL List

ng Partner For Companies With Mission-Critical Email Needs - Original Message - | From: "Scott" | To: "L. Mark Stone" , "mailop" | Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2024 7:21:36 PM | Subject: Re: [mailop] DNSBL List | Hi Mark, | absolutely. We have a hard lim

Re: [mailop] DNSBL List

: "Scott Q. via mailop" | To: "Michael Peddemors" , "mailop" | Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2024 6:24:06 PM | Subject: Re: [mailop] DNSBL List | I simply wanted a way to find out who the abusers were so I can solve the | problem. I didn't want a removal, aut

Re: [mailop] DNSBL List

You know the IP, so if you can get a timestamp and timezone to match then you'll likely be able to narrow it down pretty well. It does give away spam traps but I've not had a problem being given a timestamp from any RBL when I've asked. It's important that they perceive you as an ally in the fi

Re: [mailop] DNSBL List

___ L. Mark Stone, Founder North America's Leading Zimbra VAR/BSP/Training Partner For Companies With Mission-Critical Email Needs - Original Message - | From: "Scott Q. via mailop" | To: "Michael Peddemors" , &quo

Re: [mailop] DNSBL List

On 2024-12-18 15:24, Scott Q. via mailop wrote: I simply wanted a way to find out who the abusers were so I can solve the problem. I didn't want a removal, automatic or not. Not co-operating with ESPs about who the offenders are​​ doesn't really help solve anything. It's completely counter-pro

Re: [mailop] DNSBL List

I simply wanted a way to find out who the abusers were so I can solve the problem. I didn't want a removal, automatic or not. Not co-operating with ESPs about who the offenders are​​ doesn't really help solve anything. It's completely counter-productive. So basically, the logic here is the follow

Re: [mailop] DNSBL List

IF you can't adequately monitor your own outbound mail queues, and track rejections, and want someone else to do your job for you, you might like to offer the RBL operators some money to do your job for you. *Sheesh* Eg, Twilio is a billion dollar company, and can't get a handle on those phis

Re: [mailop] DNSBL List

But why is it bad if legitimate hosting providers know which of their accounts is abused so they can take action and fix the problem ? I understand you don't want spammers to know what spamtraps you use, but surely it would be beneficial for everyone if there is a trust circle that can easily solv

Re: [mailop] DNSBL List

> But why is it bad if legitimate hosting providers know which of > their accounts is abused so they can take action and fix the problem ? Because spamtraps become effectively useless the moment you know they're there. That goes for every single imaginable value of "you." > I understand you don'

Re: [mailop] DNSBL List

In the past uceprotect for listings on sending to spam traps made the bounce message clear with a 5xx bounce. Rather than accepting the email, it is a hard bounce with a message that it is detected as spam, or will be added to a blocklist. There should be few to no false positives on their spam

Re: [mailop] DNSBL List

And I'd be perfectly fine with that approach if it were applied equally to everyone. But it's not, rather what ended up happening is that most blocklists went into uselessness because they started blocking Gmail/MS365 who _do_ send out large amounts of Spam. So they could either block them and ever

Re: [mailop] DNSBL List

> On Dec 18, 2024, at 5:10 AM, Atro Tossavainen via mailop > wrote: > >> Indeed, they could list the Message-ID on their website. That would >> make it much easier. > > If spamtrap operators provided data unequivocally identifying the > messages they had received that would simply out the spa

Re: [mailop] DNSBL List

On 18.12.2024 at 14:37 Scott Q. via mailop wrote: > ok, granted, but how else do you suppose would be a better method ? Can you > imagine them asking Gmail to look at their logs at around +/- 1 minute > ? We're not Gmail level but we still have lots of data, it's a silly way to > convey inform

Re: [mailop] DNSBL List

("List only" replies appreciated here) > ok, granted, but how else do you suppose would be a better method > ? Can you imagine them asking Gmail to look at their logs at around > +/- 1 minute ? We're not Gmail level but we still have lots of data, > it's a silly way to convey information. I don'

Re: [mailop] DNSBL List

ok, granted, but how else do you suppose would be a better method ? Can you imagine them asking Gmail to look at their logs at around +/- 1 minute ? We're not Gmail level but we still have lots of data, it's a silly way to convey information. Scott​ On Wednesday, 18/12/2024 at 07:10 Atro Tossava

Re: [mailop] DNSBL List

> Indeed, they could list the Message-ID on their website. That would > make it much easier. If spamtrap operators provided data unequivocally identifying the messages they had received that would simply out the spamtraps. It's kind of contrary to the intention. Speaking as a spamtrap operator.

Re: [mailop] DNSBL List

On 18.12.2024 06:41 Scott Q. wrote: > Our IP is on Level 1 but the problem is we can't identify which > user / e-mail caused us to get listed. It's probably a compromised > account. > > They say to look for logs +/- 1 minute around a certain time but > that's a lot of failures to go through. Yo

Re: [mailop] DNSBL List

Our IP is on Level 1 but the problem is we can't identify which user / e-mail caused us to get listed. It's probably a compromised account. They say to look for logs +/- 1 minute around a certain time but that's a lot of failures to go through. I quickly filtered some but it's really not easy to

Re: [mailop] DNSBL List

Every single time the DNSBL we don't talk about here is raised as some sort of discussion point, we end up in circular and pointless arguments about them. I took the decision to implement a ban as the list moderator because I was fed up of seeing the same old tired points being made. It's not ce

Re: [mailop] DNSBL List

On 18.12.2024 05:35 Scott Q. via mailop wrote: > Anyone that dealt with them before and who can offer some tips ? You have to tell us on which of their lists you are. They operate 4. Use their form to identify on which one you are listed. ___ mailop ma

Re: [mailop] DNSBL List

On 12/18/24 11:41 AM, Marco wrote: On 18.12.2024 11:20 Renaud Allard via mailop wrote: You should not worry too much about being on those lists, nobody sane is using them for filtering outside of a scoring method. Being on Level 0 or Level 1 is a clear indicator that the system itself sent

Re: [mailop] DNSBL List

On 18.12.2024 11:20 Renaud Allard via mailop wrote: > You should not worry too much about being on those lists, nobody sane > is using them for filtering outside of a scoring method. Being on Level 0 or Level 1 is a clear indicator that the system itself sent mails to the spamtraps. I use those

Re: [mailop] DNSBL List

I know, but sadly some domains _are_ using them.  I'm not trying to discuss them and their methods, to each its own. Just trying to navigate being listed by them for reasons unknown and without paying money for no good reason. Anyone that dealt with them before and who can offer some tips ? Than

Re: [mailop] DNSBL List

On 12/18/24 10:58 AM, Scott Q. via mailop wrote: I tried posting about the UCE list and it got returned as message filtered. Just checking in if that keyword really is banned here or I might have typed something else wrong by mistake. All discussions involving UCE have resulted in some kin

Re: [mailop] DNSBL List

On 18.12.2024 04:58 Scott Q. via mailop wrote: > I tried posting about the UCE list and it got returned as message > filtered. Just checking in if that keyword really is banned here or I > might have typed something else wrong by mistake. Your mail was posted to the list, maybe because you didn't

[mailop] DNSBL List

I tried posting about the UCE list and it got returned as message filtered. Just checking in if that keyword really is banned here or I might have typed something else wrong by mistake. Scott​ ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop