Pleaee ignore this.. I feel such an ass for even ASKING about this &%$
That'll teach me to read error messages.. completely :)
Sorry,
John 'Neuron' McGarrigle
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 18220396
Phone: +44 (0)7944 604 644
-Original Message-
Fro
btw. Any
help would be appreciated!
John
Well, I think I solved the problem myself. I added
"localhost.localdomain" to my access.db and gave it relaying
permissions. I am sure that this is a work-around and that I have
something misconfigured in mailman, but I can't find it.
At any rate, everyone is getting their mess
detail, what
administrative tasks can be performed directly by email commands?
My list contains about 100,000 subscribers. Manually searching for
an address through a list of 100,000 to delete them is not
practical.
I would appreciate any information you can provide.
Thanks.
John
Mailman 2.x make this any easier?
Thanks,
John
> -Original Message-
> From: Orion (Steve Pirk) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 6:29 PM
> To: Tom Geller
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] The perennial question: Moving lists?
I have a small list on a dsl connection and the evil company Verizon can't
seem to maintain very well. What I would like to do is implement list
redundancy across two machines that have different ISPs. Out of curiosity
as anyone successfully done this? Could be fun to set up, I am thinking a
co
sr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/private
admin(22900): PYTHONPATH: /usr/local/mailman
admin(22900): PATH_INFO: /isocnz-council-discuss/
admin(22900): HTTP_REFERER:
http://listserver.isocnz.org.nz/mailman/private/isocnz-council-discuss/
admin(22900): SERVER_NAME: www.isocnz.org.nz
--
John Vor
#x27;ve been running several Majordomo lists for the best part of a year
without any significant problems.
Just don't where to start with a manual install...
--
John
--
Mailman-Users maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.python.org
I think its a good idea. I have a script that runs at the end of the month
that gives message counts for each user and a script that runs every day
that collects random quotes and all the hyperlinks into textfiles that is
displayed on a webpage. Not very something you would have for a list like
but not for others
and I cannot see any differences bewtween the lists as far as permissions
go.
Has anyone got any ideas on where I should look. I am not a python expert
by any means?
We are running:
Mailman 2.0.3
Python 1.5.2
on a Debian Linux (potatoe) release.
Apart from this the lists
Nigel,
When I said funny I though the message was manufactured by
a list member to appear as if it was coming from the List Admin
Anyway, the interface will not let me unsubscribe, I tried every thing
but it just doesn't work. I even tried to subscribe using the same email
address (from the
lman-owner@ address
on the listinfo page..
I have searched for documentation on this, but found very little...
I would appreciate any help you could give me :)
John 'Neuron' McGarrigle
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 18220396
Phone:
Much appreciated,
Thanks!
John 'Neuron' McGarrigle
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 18220396
Phone: +44 (0)7944 604 644
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Pug Bainter
Sent: 11 May 2001 1:29 PM
To: John McGarrigle
way to authenticate unsophisticated users... and we tend to use
our kerberos realm more as a distributed password system (that has
better security than NIS) than as an ultra-secure authentication system.
--
John "kzin" Rudd http://www.domain.org/users/kzin
Truth decays
#x27;/home/mailman/lists/va/config.db'554 "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post
va"... unknown mailer error 1
I have opened over
100 links about this error on the web, but have yet to come with a
solution.
Can please
advise?
Thanks,
John
Le
I'm getting these message by the dozen. I just did a Python install and a
Mailman install apparently nothing works yet. Help?
Thanks,
John
Cron /usr/local/bin/python -S /home/mailman/cron/qrunner
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/home/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 85
Hell yeah it supports 386.
If you don't have alot of HDD don't install things you don't need. I used
to run mailman, a webserver and a mailserver on my 486.. (hows that for
"propaganda") heck you would be amazed with what you can do with a stripped
down kernel on a floppy disk.
But hopefully if
I have a list and it seems that nobody has ever succeeded in subscribing to
it. Finally somebody complained to me. The confirm mail he tried to send had
all kinds of MIME and HTML suff it in and the error message he got back from
mailman was like:
Command? This is a multi-part message in MI
Hello,
This is a newbie question.
I just installed mailman. Messages sent to it manage to make it to the
archive but are not relayed to subscribers. All the right buttons appear
to be ticked.
Could someone help please.
Best Regards
John
++
John
On an English Solarix site
The English mailman GUI mangles Japanese on the GUI level but the
archived Japanese is OK. Would the Japanese version of Mailman do any
better on the English Solarix or is the menu language all that is
different?
Best Regards
John
ing [EMAIL PROTECTED]
208.146.74.99
I ended up getting two subscription confirmation emails.
Thanks for any ideas or suggestions.
--
John Masterson
Modwest
Powerful, Affordable Hosting
http://www.modwest.com
406-541-4678
--
Mailman-Users maill
Any ideas on this out there?
Thanks.
--
John Masterson
Modwest
Powerful, Affordable Hosting
http://www.modwest.com
406-541-4678
- Original Message -
From: "John Masterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 8:13 PM
S
directory?
Thanks.
John Kostash
Gennum Corporation
begin:vcard
n:Kostash;John
tel;fax:905-632-2055
tel;work:905-632-2999 x1780
x-mozilla-html:TRUE
org:Gennum Corporation
adr:;;P.O. Box 489, Station A;Burlington;Ontario;L7R 3Y3;
version:2.1
email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
title:Manager, IT
Title: Bug Message
Here it is in plain text.
Bug
in Mailman version 1.1
We're sorry, we hit a bug!
If
you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of this page
to the webmaster for this site with a description of what happened. Thanks!
Traceback: Traceback (innermo
omain
hosts = localhost
The content of database "mail" in MySQL:
table "aliases":
+--++-+
| uid | alias | maildir |
+--++-+
| 1100 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | ysl.or.
tricted to our HR people.
Thanks.
John Kostash
Gennum Corp.
begin:vcard
n:Kostash;John
tel;fax:905-632-2055
tel;work:905-632-2999 x1780
x-mozilla-html:TRUE
org:Gennum Corporation
adr:;;P.O. Box 489, Station A;Burlington;Ontario;L7R 3Y3;
version:2.1
email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
title:M
Have followed the installation instructions for mailman 2.1. The website
looks fine, and appears to work. I can register for the test list (through
the site) and it sends out the confirmation email. When I respond to the
confirmation email, I am able to see through the logs that it receives
does that break something?
Mailman: 2.0.5
Python: Active Python 2.1, build 210
Linux:Redhat 6.2 (Zoot)
John Jones, Systems Admin
http://www.ActiveState.com
Programming for the People
--
Mailman-Users maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED
her follow-on
companies/scams may not.
Believe me, if I find myself on a list that I cannot leave (or someone on my
networks report such a thing)... that entire network just gets blackholed
and submitted to the RBL.
John Jones, Systems Admin
http://www.ActiveState.com
Programming for
Okay, here is a question...
Qmail, Mailman. I have 1376 mails in the queue, but Mailman's /qfiles
directory only has about 4 messages in it, and they are being sent out
pretty regularly. So, I am assuming that this is a non-deliverable or
long-wait-deliverable problem.
What kind of optimizatio
After AOL/CS mysteriously blocked postings from our list due
to "excessive member complaints" -- 8 AOL/CS members out of 49) we
decided to move the list to a new server. Now list postings go through
correctly and reach everyone, but messages like the one below are
generated on occasion to post
rious about the inner workings on this one.
Well, note that your first paragraph says you have set it to send a
digest daily, whether or not it is full.
Are you saying that some days you send out two digests and the first one
is only 40 KB?
--
John DeCarlo, My V
What is the usual way of handling Mailman's icons when using Apache?
Should I just copy them from mailman/icons to Apache's Icons directory, or
can I change the configuration file by appending a second directory to
the icons alias?
3.152.37.92 Port 80
LockFile.py contains:-
self.__tmpfname = '%s.%s.%d' % (
lockfile, socket.gethostname(), os.getpid())
How do I find the result of socket.gethostname() ?
--
John
--
Mailman-Users mailin
them that aren't in use. The files have the name of
> the process that is running as a part of their name, so a "ps ax" will
> reveal whether the process is still running or not.
Actually, I'm not using Unix, but
On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 09:12:02PM +0100, John Poltorak wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 03:08:24PM -0400, Jon Carnes wrote:
> > Version 2.0.13 is perfectly respectable.
> >
> > Is the server admin address *really* set to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"?
>
> Not
new list was created.
Hope this helps.
--
John DeCarlo, My Views Are My Own
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable
machines are Windows machines)?
--
John DeCarlo, My Views Are My Own
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable
don't see anywhere else I can set this list to be unmoderated. Can you point me to the category it is under?
Thanks.
--
John DeCarlo, My Views Are My Own
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.python.org/mailman
usr/local/mailman/archives/public/
Options -Indexes FollowSymlinks -Includes
AllowOverride None
order allow,deny
allow from all
Any suggestions? I've reinstalled mailman several times, tried various
apache settings, and still no
---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailman]# bin/version
Using Mailman version: 2.1.3
-
I'm still stuck. Anyone else have any ideas?
Thanks,
John B.
Simon White wrote:
02-Nov-03 at 14:06, Doug Griswold ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote :
Your apache server is executing th
On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:58:05 -0800, Will Yardley wrote:
>> > Do we *really* need this "feature" on the mailman-users list? Does
>> > anyone actually find it helpful?
>
>I'd like to assume (perhaps wrongly) that most people on *this* list can
>figure out what address a message was sent to by looking
at
dangerous.
I need to figure out how to have the code rely on the extension over the content type. If anyone has knowledge of modifying the
Scrubber.py (I think that is where it is) to allow this, please let me know
--
John DeCarlo, My Views Are My Own
-
by this funtion and where should it
be retrieved from? ie should it be using $HOSTNAME ?
--
John
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi
On Thu, Nov 06, 2003 at 04:57:12PM +, Richard Barrett wrote:
>
> On Thursday, November 6, 2003, at 05:43 pm, John Poltorak wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I'm getting an error in LockFile.py at this point (line 180) :-
> >
> > self.__tmpfna
robably wrong in this assumption.
It works fine from a Python command line, but I can't be sure the
environment in which Apache is running is exactly the same.
When I remove socket.gethostname() from the above line it works, so I'm
quite it is the culprit.
Wha
his is an
announcement list and by default members can't post to it.)
Do I have a correct understanding? Admins must specifically also have
"Mod" unchecked to freely post? Or does it sound like something might
be wrong
Is there an option to send outgoing mail via Sendmail?
--
John
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives
Can anyone explain the difference betweem SMTPDirect and Sendmail ?
If I select Sendmail will outgoing mail be held in Sendmail spool queue?
--
John
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo
ng on?
I tried changing delivery_module to Sendmail in case I could get a better
idea about what was going on, but nothing gets sent to Sendmail.
--
John
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.python.org/mailman/lis
; denied" notices.
Actually, I had just spotted that after I had sent my msg.
I got it working by changing Sendmail's LocalIP to include 127.0.0.1, but
I'm not sure about the consequences of doing that. Maybe I should change
Mailman's SMTPHOST to 192.168.0.1...
--
John
Are there any handy tips for converting a list from Majordomo to Mailman?
--
John
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
; denied" notices.
Yes this is exactly what caused the problems.
I've added 127.0.01 to the list of addresses allowed to relay, although
I'm not sure if there are any dangers in doing this...
> Jon Carnes
>
> On Sat, 2003-11-08 at 05:18, John Poltorak wrote:
> &g
ng happened when the message
was replied to and it was not seen in the web interface)
Apart from that, everything else works fine, posting, subscription,
archive browsing etc.
Any ideas?
John Snowdon - IT Support Specialist
-==-
Faculty of Medical Sci
ng happened when the message
was replied to and it was not seen in the web interface)
Apart from that, everything else works fine, posting, subscription,
archive browsing etc.
Any ideas?
John Snowdon - IT Support Specialist
-==-
Faculty of Medical Sci
e is what I put:
###
# Here's where we get the distributed defaults.
from Defaults import *
DEFAULT_ADMIN_MEMBER_CHUNKSIZE = 60
But the page still only shows addresses in chuncks of 30. Is this right?
How can this be done a per-list basis?
--
John DeCarlo,
it possible to mirror our Yahoo subscriber to Mailman?
4. Do you have a documentation explaining step by step on how to
install it to Linux box?
--
John DeCarlo, My Views Are My Own
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
h
ld like to disable access to the web interface.
--
John DeCarlo, My Views Are My Own
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
PROTECTED] mail list is working although i have deleted it.
it is not seen on our mailman web admin. int.
so this maillist deliver mails without moderation (i've allready set the moderation
rule!)
billions of times everyday.
how can i solve this problem ?
--
John DeCarlo, My Views Are M
error about service not being known.
What am I missing and what do I need to do to get Mailman running? Tnx -
John
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http
your own domain for the list from your web host or are you
using theirs?
In theory, what you did should be sufficient, so I am just guessing at
where the problem may lie.
--
John DeCarlo, My Views Are My Own
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
[
error about service not being known.
What am I missing and what do I need to do to get Mailman running? Tnx -
John
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http
Jim,
TG wrote:
Trying to upgrade to the current version of MM and I am having some
issues.
I can't answer any of your ToDigest questions.
But, to start with something simple, changes to any .py won't take
effect until you restart the mailmanctl program.
--
John DeCarlo, My Views
How do I try and identify why outgoing mail does not get processed?
Does qrunner have any trace or debug options?
And is there and equivalent of 'sendmail -bp' for display what is held in
the queue?
--
John
--
Mailman-Use
Is there any way to add a number of users to a list from a script?
--
John
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Are there any recommendations for providing a search facility for
archives?
--
John
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw
process it as soon as it has arrived in the qfiles directory. Is there any
option for doing this?
--
John
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http
, and how? Is there a walkthrough on the web for
this kind of use?
Help is kindly appreciated,
--
John Meredith
Aperio Limited
Focal Point
Newmarket Road
Bottisham
Cambridge CB5 9BD
Registered in England, No. 3235409
t. +44 (0)870 600 80 50
f. +44 (0)870 600 80 40
e
Greetings-
I have a question: is there a method to add the subscriber names, in addition to
e-mail addresses, en masse? That would be really usefule to me.
GNU Peace,
Ron Carson
Octadyne Systems
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
with shell scripts.
Thanks for any help or ideas!
Regards,
John
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http:
pwards all the time; we could do this on one line and pipe
> # to another pipe and so on... but separating isn't such a bad thing
> sort -d /tmp/abc.wk2 | uniq > /tmp/abc.wk1
>
> # now sync back to the list
> $prefix/bin/sync_member
I desperately and immediately need the capability to send email to a
database of about 3000 people, all of whom are true subscribers to our list.
We're a small office running Windows XP, with no network or server beyond
minimal disk space on a subscribed ISP server. I'm basically a former
database
, and as far as I can see
the only directories which contain any data for a list are:
archives/
lists/
logs/
So if I make a clean installation of mailman on my new server, and then copy
over those
directories from the old server - will that work ?
Thanks,
John
Is there any way to make Mailman automatically reject mail from a
particular domain?
--
John
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin
I can't do that since I'm only a list owner.
> On Thu, 2004-01-01 at 15:12, John Poltorak wrote:
> > Is there any way to make Mailman automatically reject mail from a
> > particular domain?
> >
>
--
John
---
. I read the FAQ at
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.025.htp
but it doesn't explain why a list (as opposed to a simple alias) is
required.
--
John DeCarlo, My Views Are My Own
--
Mailman-Users mailin
???
There are many different reasons for Bounce messages. If you could post
a particular one, someone on the list could undoubtedly explain it to
you.
--
John DeCarlo, My Views Are My Own
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http
earch on this to verify
who can post? I see the regex search on the membership list page, but I
don't see how this can search the extra bits?
Apologies if this has been answered before, but I couldn't find it.
Thanks!
John
-
archiving (instead of deleting them from the file) and run
.../bin/arch --start=N --wipe etrans-echange
At least this should get you started.
--
John DeCarlo, My Views Are My Own
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http
with some number like half of
the number you got above and if you have too many messages left in the
archives, go up as needed.
--
John DeCarlo, My Views Are My Own
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.python.org/mailman
n I moved a list from one machine to another and
simply forwarded all mail to the new address.
The answer, in this case, is to go to the Privacy -> Recipient Filters
section and add alternate email addresses users may send to to the list
of aliases.
Hope this helps.
--
John
I installed Mailman v2.1.1 some time ago, and would like to upgrade to a
later version. How do I go about it? Do I just install a new version over
the top of the old one?
--
John
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http
Is it safe to delete lockfiles which have been hanging around for a long
time?
There is one called master-qrunner from a many months ago.
--
John
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo
Where can I find an explanation of how qfiles are supposed to work?
I'm struggling to make any sense of them.
Is there some way to run a qrunner daemon so that it processes all qfiles
as and when they occur?
--
John
--
Mailman-
Is there any way I can set up a new list so that Web address is prefixed
by 'www' but the email address isn't?
At the moment they both end up the same.
--
John
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://
How do I go about creating a new list for a virtual host?
I know I can specify the listname as [EMAIL PROTECTED] and this works
fine for the web interface but I'm not sure how to make the email address
of the list to be [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Any hints would be appreciated.
--
On Mon, Feb 02, 2004 at 11:47:00AM +0100, Dirk Försterling wrote:
> John Poltorak wrote:
> >
> > How do I go about creating a new list for a virtual host?
> >
> > I know I can specify the listname as [EMAIL PROTECTED] and this works
> > fine for the we
ey run ~mailman/bin/sync_members
to take care of any changes that may have happened in the last time period.
HTH.
--
John DeCarlo, My Views Are My Own
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinf
Chason,
Just curious - why are you running Mailman if you aren't running any
mailing lists?
Chason Hayes wrote:
I don't run a mailing list on this server. Please help
--
John DeCarlo, My Views Are My Own
--
Mailman-Users ma
er error 1
Can anyone suggest what is wrong? I suspect it has something to do with
permissions, but I don't know how to confirm that.
--
John
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listi
Is there any way to configure a list so that a reply gets sent back to the
list rather than the original sender?
--
John
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ
;
> Kind regards,
>
> Remko Lodder
> Elvandar.org/DSINet.org
> www.mostly-harmless.nl Dutch community for helping newcomers on the
> hackerscene
>
> -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
> Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] John Poltorak
> Verzonden: woensd
n concepts of the entire CLI "thing", regardless
of what year you happen to be sitting at the terminal. Can you do it?
Sure. But _should_ you? Well, that's up to you.
--
John ! The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace
Buttery! alarmed -- and thus clamor
There is a user on one of my mailing lists that bounces all of the
mailing list messages. This started less than a week ago.
First question: is it possible to see the actual bounce messages before
the user's subscription is disabled? When mailman notified me that his
address was disabled, it in
omputer virus this time.
Ford doesn't provide a chauffeur with every new car. Learn the tool.
--
John ! Rarely do we find men who willingly engage in hard, solid
Buttery! thinking. There is an almost universal quest for easy answers
www.io.c! and half-baked solutions. Nothing pains so
er ignorance, inertia, or occasionally just downright laziness.
For the latter two, well, get off your butt. :) For the former, the
correct solution to ignorance is education, not making your ignorance
someone else's problem.
--
John ! The problem with pointing to the Nazis or the Gestapo
B
best explanations of my point of view on it are in this email
and the two I posted a little while ago. Hopefully they at least
clarified things, even if they don't change anyone's habits.
--
John ! Give a man a fish, and he'l
nstallation location.
But it is not in the source...
Please can someone send me a copy of this script, and/or can you add a link
to it on the
web site so others can download it.
Thanks,
John.
_
Express yourself with cool emoticons - do
I'm currently unable to use the GUI, but need to add new users to a list.
How do I do that?
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John
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Has anyone seen a situation in Mailmain 2.1 where administrative requests
(subscribe, unsubscribe) might be forwarded back to the unmoderated list,
and thereby to the general list members?
Is there a setting which could make this happen?
We have a list which was converted over from Majordomo last
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