Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

> "Brad" == Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: At 5:09 PM -0400 9/18/06, John A. Martin quoted JC Dill: > Where are those restrictions expressed. I do not see them at > . I do not see > them in either the subscription challenge

Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

At 5:09 PM -0400 9/18/06, John A. Martin quoted JC Dill: > JC> The list subscription policy is that it is not OK to setup a > JC> public archive without specific permission. When a > JC> subscription request is accepted the list server is saying > JC> "yes" to personal archives, a

Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

>>>>> "JC" == JC Dill >>>>> "Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane" >>>>> Mon, 18 Sep 2006 09:41:30 -0700 JC> Ask me if you can borrow my car, and I might say yes and give JC> you the keys. Take my car without asking

Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

Barry Warsaw wrote: > > I think that if Gmane were to address the issues that Brad and JC have > raised about their operations, then it would be worth reconsidering. +1 :-) jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail

Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sep 18, 2006, at 12:26 PM, JC Dill wrote: > If Barry wants to let the list be gatewayed to gmane and usenet > over our objections, he is certainly entitled to do that. It will > also mean that he will need new people to help manage the various

Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

On 9/18/06 10:26 AM, JC Dill wrote: > If Barry wants to let the list be gatewayed to gmane and usenet over our > objections, he is certainly entitled to do that. It will also mean that > he will need new people to help manage the various lists that Brad and I > help manage because I'm with Brad

Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

On 9/18/06 10:26 AM, JC Dill wrote: > 2) Even if Gmane wasn't a PITA, there are increased problems with > managing a list when it's gatewayed to usenet. Gmane is not a Usenet gateway. Please see http://gmane.org/ for more about what Gmane is and is not. --

Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

Jim Popovitch wrote: > On Mon, 2006-09-18 at 09:13 -0700, JC Dill wrote: >> 1) We have never received any such notice. I was one of the MM >> list-owners the first and second times this came around. >> >> 2) Opt-out is wrong. It might, possibly, be not too terribly >> wrong if that were the o

Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

John A. Martin wrote: > JC> Barry Warsaw wrote: > >> If I was aware of such problems in the past, I honestly don't > >> remember -- I'll place the blame squarely on my overloaded > >> brain, and age. :) Taking a fresh look at this, I say let's do > >> what we can to get the list

Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

On Mon, 2006-09-18 at 09:13 -0700, JC Dill wrote: > 1) We have never received any such notice. I was one of the MM > list-owners the first and second times this came around. > > 2) Opt-out is wrong. It might, possibly, be not too terribly wrong if > that were the only thing they did/do wrong

Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

Jason R. Mastaler wrote: > On 9/17/06 11:20 PM, Tokio Kikuchi wrote: >>> Great, thanks Barry. I'll take care of getting the MM lists + back >>> archives added to Gmane. The missing Python lists are someone else's >>> problem . Since MM is your project, shouldn't your words above >>> be suffic

Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

>>>>> "JC" == JC Dill >>>>> "Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane" >>>>> Mon, 18 Sep 2006 07:55:37 -0700 JC> Barry Warsaw wrote: >> If I was aware of such problems in the past, I honestly don't >

Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

Jason R. Mastaler wrote: > Although when the lists are added to Gmane, an auto-generated notice > *is* sent to the list-owner address explaining what has happened and > giving them the option to easily opt-out by replying to the notice. > It's possible in the Mailman case that there was some te

Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

On 9/17/06 11:20 PM, Tokio Kikuchi wrote: >> Great, thanks Barry. I'll take care of getting the MM lists + back >> archives added to Gmane. The missing Python lists are someone else's >> problem . Since MM is your project, shouldn't your words above >> be sufficient as far as permission to ad

Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

On 9/18/06 7:37 AM, John A. Martin wrote: > Unless I am missing something, the form at > does not include a place for the > list-owner address. It sees to me therefore unrealistic to expect the > Gmane administrator to contact the list-owner but rather the the > pe

Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

Brad Knowles wrote: > I try very hard to "never say never", but I cannot imagine a > circumstance were we would possibly ever trust them to carry any > Mailman or Python-related content. I *can* imagine - it could (perhaps) happen when they actually follow their stated policy and contact a lis

Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

Barry Warsaw wrote: > If I was aware of such problems in the past, I honestly don't > remember -- I'll place the blame squarely on my overloaded brain, and > age. :) Taking a fresh look at this, I say let's do what we can to > get the lists on Gmane, including any back archives. The probl

Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

Tokio Kikuchi wrote: > Barry has clearly stated "if the Gmane administrators make a formal > request" and this was the point that past mirroring (or archiving) > requests were rejected, IIRC. I'm not so sure we ever rejected a formal request. IIRC, no formal request has ever been made. Certa

Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

>>>>> "Tokio" == Tokio Kikuchi >>>>> "Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane" >>>>> Mon, 18 Sep 2006 14:20:56 +0900 Tokio> Jason R. Mastaler wrote: >> On 9/17/06 9:36 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: >>> Taking

Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

Brad Knowles said the following on 2006/09/16 09:07 PM: > The reason that they were removed from Gmane is that they tell us > they have a policy of always contacting the listowner to see if it's > okay for them to carry the list on their site This is not the case with some lists on the server I

Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

Jason R. Mastaler said the following on 2006/09/17 08:10 AM: > If Gmane allows me and others to keep up with Barry's release > announcements for example in a convenient manner, I think that's a good thing. What's preventing you from just subscribing to the announce list? -- | Bretton Vine | 0

Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

Brad Knowles said the following on 2006/09/17 07:32 AM: > By rights, the listowner(s) should have the final say as to who is > allowed to see the archives of their list, who is allowed to > subscribe to their list, and who is allowed to post. Period. In 10 years of being online and being part o

Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

Jason R. Mastaler wrote: > On 9/17/06 9:36 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: >> Taking a fresh look at this, I say let's do what we can to get the lists >> on Gmane, including any back archives. >> >> Jason, perhaps you can mediate here, since you seem to know both the >> Gmane and Mailman/Python organizat

Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

On 9/17/06 9:36 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > Taking a fresh look at this, I say let's do what we can to get the lists > on Gmane, including any back archives. > > Jason, perhaps you can mediate here, since you seem to know both the > Gmane and Mailman/Python organizations. If the Gmane administrat

Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

On 9/17/06 2:32 AM, Brad Knowles wrote: > What parts of the Mailman community can only access this mailing list > (and the archives) via services like Gmane, as opposed to subscribing to > this mailing list, and reading our public archives that we maintain on > python.org and at mail-archive.com

Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Okay, first of all let's all take a deep breath. This can be worked out. Let me state up front that my general preference is always to allow the widest possible access to the Mailman and Python lists, and in general to all open source content.

Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

At 6:10 AM + 9/17/06, Jason R. Mastaler wrote: > So because you feel personally offended, you choose to punish all > Mailman users by not letting Gmane carry their lists? I think you are > serving your own interests, and not those of the Mailman community, and > that is unfortunate. What

Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Jason R. Mastaler wrote: > On 9/16/06 11:32 PM, Brad Knowles wrote: > > If the Gmane folks had actually come to us first, we might well have > > approved their request to set up a gateway. > So because you feel personally offended, you choose to punish all > M

Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

On 9/16/06 11:32 PM, Brad Knowles wrote: > If the Gmane folks had actually come to us first, we might well have > approved their request to set up a gateway. So because you feel personally offended, you choose to punish all Mailman users by not letting Gmane carry their lists? I think you are

Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

At 1:25 AM + 9/17/06, Jason R. Mastaler wrote: > I understand what you're saying, but seriously, who cares > if the mailman lists were added without anyone's approval? I do. The other listowners do. Lots of other owners of other lists that I've talked to likewise care what's being done w

Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

On 9/16/06 8:25 PM, Jason R. Mastaler at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I understand what you're saying, but seriously, who cares if the mailman > lists were added without anyone's approval? Gmane is a valuable and > useful service and does no damage to anyone. You could think of it as > someone doi

Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

I understand what you're saying, but seriously, who cares if the mailman lists were added without anyone's approval? Gmane is a valuable and useful service and does no damage to anyone. You could think of it as someone doing the project a favor rather than something that needs "forgiveness."

Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

At 7:40 PM + 9/16/06, Jason R. Mastaler wrote: >Having known Lars > Magne Ingebrigtsen for years, he's all about being a good net > citizen, writing software that is aggressively standards > compliant, and all the other good things. Not to me

Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

AFAIK, Gmane has a small group of administrators who add the lists. It's possible one of them just forgot to notify you guys, or didn't understand that he had an obligation to. I'd guess that this was an honest mistake more than anything malicious. Having known Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen for yea

Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

At 6:30 PM + 9/16/06, Jason R. Mastaler wrote: > I was surprised to find the Mailman lists not on Gmane, and some > googling revealed some sort of religious flame war I don't really want > to get into. The reason that they were removed from Gmane is that they tell us they have a policy of

[Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

I was surprised to find the Mailman lists not on Gmane, and some googling revealed some sort of religious flame war I don't really want to get into. But, I think at the very least, mailman-announce should be carried on Gmane. I don't see how that would hurt anyone. I'd really like to just ad