On 09/30/2011 04:56 AM, Sven Burmeister wrote:
If you would take a more positive approach to people who care enough to bring
some bug they noticed for days/weeks to the devs attention (in a sensible
wording of course!), then the latter is simply an opportunity for a wider
community than devs read
>On 28 September 2011 13:46, Bart Kelsey wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I'd like to draw attention to the fact that KDE's bug triage process is
> lacking.
In case anyone is interested and as a FYI, Ubuntu is looking at an
option to help bug triaging:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker
You may notic
On Wednesday, October 5, 2011 17:48:55 Sven Burmeister wrote:
> > regressions where: master, stable branch, ..?
>
> Since distros only ship released versions I guess that would be branch.
ok; realize that most regressions occur in master, and that master becomes the
next release, so a number of re
Am Mittwoch, 5. Oktober 2011, 11:35:41 schrieb Aaron J. Seigo:
> On Tuesday, October 4, 2011 21:46:53 Sven Burmeister wrote:
> > Since we have to start somewhere, as a plasma dev, how do you feel about
> > prioritising regressions as soon as they are reported and fixing them
> > ASAP, i.e. before t
On Tuesday, October 4, 2011 21:46:53 Sven Burmeister wrote:
> Since we have to start somewhere, as a plasma dev, how do you feel about
> prioritising regressions as soon as they are reported and fixing them ASAP,
> i.e. before the next minor release at latest?
regressions where: master, stable bra
Am Dienstag, 4. Oktober 2011, 16:25:50 schrieb Aaron J. Seigo:
> On Saturday, October 1, 2011 09:24:25 Sven Burmeister wrote:
> > thread and true for devs and users likewise. The dangerous thing about
> > it is that users' and devs' frustration amplify each other.
>
> the truly dangerous thing is
On Saturday, October 1, 2011 09:24:25 Sven Burmeister wrote:
> thread and true for devs and users likewise. The dangerous thing about it is
> that users' and devs' frustration amplify each other.
the truly dangerous thing is nobody doing anything.
i can hammer prose out on my keyboard at a pace a
Greets!
I wish I could, but I have a project of my own, here:
http://opengameart.org
I am the sole developer and I have a bug queue of my own. My concern
here was there wasn't ever any evidence that anyone had even looked at
the bug report. While I don't have time to fix bug reports for my
pro
On Sunday, October 02, 2011 11:27:33 AM Anne-Marie Mahfouf wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 28, 2011 01:46:14 PM Bart Kelsey wrote:
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > I'd like to draw attention to the fact that KDE's bug triage process is
> > lacking.
> >
> > It's frustrating for users submitting bug reports
On Sunday, 2011-10-02, Sune Vuorela wrote:
> On 2011-10-02, Kevin Krammer wrote:
> > Interesting. So do other projects ship bug fixes without patch level
> > releas= e or=20
> > do the not ship bug fixes at all?
>
> At least in debian, for stable updates it is only for very serious
> issues there
On Sunday, October 02, 2011 16:14:18 Myriam Schweingruber wrote:
> Many old reports are also
> completely outdated, as they don't apply to the most recent version.
I just respond to this, as this is very true. And one cause of why bug
number keeps growing. If the developer keeps an eye on the bu
On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 13:38, todd rme wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Kevin Krammer wrote:
>> On Saturday, 2011-10-01, Joshua Blocher wrote:
>>> I think we are acting like it all has to be done manually which is
>>> simply not true. Why are we tackling bug triage as something that only
Hi Rui,
On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 23:20, Rui Maciel wrote:
> On 09/30/2011 03:03 PM, Myriam Schweingruber wrote:
>>
>> Well yes, it is feasible, provided the database is completely triaged
>> and there are actual people doing the queries, as those need to be
>> done by sentient beings. Of course we
On 2011-10-02, Kevin Krammer wrote:
> Interesting. So do other projects ship bug fixes without patch level releas=
> e or=20
> do the not ship bug fixes at all?
At least in debian, for stable updates it is only for very serious
issues there are shipped updates in stable releases, among other thin
Am Sun, 02 Oct 2011 13:50:57 +0200
schrieb Martin Gräßlin :
> DrKonqui should not allow to submit the backtrace if it finds
> possible duplicates.
+1 - in general :)
However, remember the "mystery" bug, ie. the uncatched exception thrown
from Qt's eventloop because of the invalid nvidia error log
On Sunday 02 October 2011 13:38:56 todd rme wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Kevin Krammer wrote:
> > On Saturday, 2011-10-01, Joshua Blocher wrote:
> >> I think we are acting like it all has to be done manually which is
> >> simply not true. Why are we tackling bug triage as something tha
On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Kevin Krammer wrote:
> On Saturday, 2011-10-01, Joshua Blocher wrote:
>> I think we are acting like it all has to be done manually which is
>> simply not true. Why are we tackling bug triage as something that only
>> a human can do?
>
> Because it potentially requir
On Saturday, 2011-10-01, Joshua Blocher wrote:
> I think we are acting like it all has to be done manually which is
> simply not true. Why are we tackling bug triage as something that only
> a human can do?
Because it potentially requires interpretation of natural language text,
understanding of
On Saturday, 2011-10-01, Scott Kitterman wrote:
> We are worried about regressions, so we are careful about post-release
> updates but we do do them. When I got approval to ship these updates the
> fact that KDE has a policy to only put bug fixes in these updates was an
> important part of gettin
On Saturday, 2011-10-01, Rui Maciel wrote:
> On 09/30/2011 03:03 PM, Myriam Schweingruber wrote:
> > Well yes, it is feasible, provided the database is completely triaged
> > and there are actual people doing the queries, as those need to be
> > done by sentient beings. Of course we welcome all vol
On Wednesday, September 28, 2011 01:46:14 PM Bart Kelsey wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I'd like to draw attention to the fact that KDE's bug triage process is
> lacking.
>
> It's frustrating for users submitting bug reports when an easily
> reproducible bug sits in the queue, without even a comment, for
On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 10:52 PM, Rui Maciel wrote:
> On 09/30/2011 07:17 PM, todd rme wrote:
>>
>> If they don't have time to respond to all the bug reports, what makes
>> you think they would have time to respond to just as many, if not
>> more, emails? You would only be increasing the amount of
On 09/30/2011 03:03 PM, Myriam Schweingruber wrote:
Well yes, it is feasible, provided the database is completely triaged
and there are actual people doing the queries, as those need to be
done by sentient beings. Of course we welcome all volunteer triagers
to give a hand:) See also my previous
On 09/30/2011 01:50 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
but you can only expect that reporters being patient if they get as minimum
ONE reply of a developer with a shor explain that it may take a little
longer to get this fixed
This. Having a bit of meaningful feedback is the difference between
contrib
On 09/30/2011 07:17 PM, todd rme wrote:
If they don't have time to respond to all the bug reports, what makes
you think they would have time to respond to just as many, if not
more, emails? You would only be increasing the amount of stuff they
need to read, further decreasing the amount of time
On Saturday, October 01, 2011 09:33:58 AM Martin Gräßlin wrote:
...
> Downstreams do not backport fixes. We see that quite clearly. There is no
> need to assume that this would change. They also don't know what bugs
> exists and what has to be backported. For really critical fixes I do inform
> th
On Friday, September 30, 2011 10:19:40 PM Sven Burmeister wrote:
> Am Freitag, 30. September 2011, 17:12:01 schrieb Martin Gräßlin:
> > The bugtracker in it's current state does not help to increase the
> > quality of the software. In fact the quality decreases as the
> > developers have to spend t
Am Samstag, 1. Oktober 2011, 12:34:56 schrieb Martin Gräßlin:
> There is ZERO communication with downstream about bugs. We do (at least for
> KWin) get no feedback at all about important bugs for the distro and we
> give no feedback to the distros. I hardly see distro people in the
> bugreports and
- Ursprüngliche Mitteilung -
> Am Samstag, 1. Oktober 2011, 09:33:58 schrieb Martin Gräßlin:
> > Downstreams do not backport fixes. We see that quite clearly. There is
> > no need to assume that this would change. They also don't know what
> > bugs exists and what has to be backported. For
Am Samstag, 1. Oktober 2011, 09:33:58 schrieb Martin Gräßlin:
> Downstreams do not backport fixes. We see that quite clearly. There is no
> need to assume that this would change. They also don't know what bugs
> exists and what has to be backported. For really critical fixes I do inform
> the distr
On Saturday 01 October 2011 09:15:02 Sven Burmeister wrote:
> Am Samstag, 1. Oktober 2011, 07:54:48 schrieb Martin Gräßlin:
> > For the bugtracker I think there is a simple solution.
> > If a user has 4.x.y and there is a released 4.x.z with z>y don't accept the
> > bug report but give the user the
Am Freitag, 30. September 2011, 16:22:28 schrieb Aaron J. Seigo:
> c) spend less time blaming each other and more time working on solutions.
> this thread is the kind of thing that personally drives me nuts as i see a
> lot of "you're doing this wrong" being aimed at people who are doing lots
> of
Am Samstag, 1. Oktober 2011, 07:54:48 schrieb Martin Gräßlin:
> For the bugtracker I think there is a simple solution.
> If a user has 4.x.y and there is a released 4.x.z with z>y don't accept the
> bug report but give the user the information where to request the newer
> version.
This would mean
On Friday 30 September 2011 22:19:40 Sven Burmeister wrote:
> Am Freitag, 30. September 2011, 17:12:01 schrieb Martin Gräßlin:
> > The bugtracker in it's current state does not help to increase the quality
> > of the software. In fact the quality decreases as the developers have to
> > spend time o
I think we are acting like it all has to be done manually which is
simply not true. Why are we tackling bug triage as something that only
a human can do? Computers are good a repetitive tasks. A little bit of
intelligent use of technology would reduce the "burden" on all of our
developers. KDE has
On Friday, September 30, 2011 09:10:22 PM Andras Mantia wrote:
> I agree. There is a common complaint by developers, that they waste
> their time on bug report reading/asnwering instead of coding. While this
> seems reasonable, you have to understand that developing a software
> product involve
>On 30 September 2011 14:44, Dr.-Ing. Edgar Alwers wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 15:59:45 +0200
> Myriam Schweingruber wrote:
>
>> I am answering here as an active bug triager.
>
> Sorry for the noise, bu you seem to be a "german language" native. What
> exactly is "triage" ? I could not find it
Am Freitag, 30. September 2011, 17:12:01 schrieb Martin Gräßlin:
> The bugtracker in it's current state does not help to increase the quality
> of the software. In fact the quality decreases as the developers have to
> spend time on managing garbage. Yes what we get is garbage. Most of the
> report
Hi Edgar,
on Friday 30 September 2011 20:44:23 Dr.-Ing. Edgar Alwers wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 15:59:45 +0200
>
> Myriam Schweingruber wrote:
> > I am answering here as an active bug triager.
>
> Sorry for the noise, bu you seem to be a "german language" native.
Good guess.
> What
> exact
On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 5:33 PM, Rui Maciel wrote:
> On 09/30/2011 01:29 PM, todd rme wrote:
>>
>> I don't think any of those are good options, since all of them have
>> the same result: spamming developers with huge amounts of useless
>> information. This would only make it far more difficult to
On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 15:59:45 +0200
Myriam Schweingruber wrote:
> I am answering here as an active bug triager.
Sorry for the noise, bu you seem to be a "german language" native. What exactly
is "triage" ? I could not find it in my english dictionary ( is a little old )
Thanks for the explanatio
On Friday, September 30, 2011 16:33:36 Rui Maciel wrote:
> On 09/30/2011 01:29 PM, todd rme wrote:
> > I don't think any of those are good options, since all of them have
> > the same result: spamming developers with huge amounts of useless
> > information. This would only make it far more difficu
On 09/30/2011 01:29 PM, todd rme wrote:
I don't think any of those are good options, since all of them have
the same result: spamming developers with huge amounts of useless
information. This would only make it far more difficult to manage bug
reports. Just being patient seems like the only sol
On Friday, September 30, 2011 14:26:22 Rui Maciel wrote:
> After all, if not here then how would we tackle this issue?
that's a great question, and it has a very simple answer that is a bit more
difficult to implement than it might at first seem, though it is completely
possible to accomplish:
On Friday 30 September 2011 09:44:54 Scott Kitterman wrote:
> Having fewer users or fewer bugs would help, so it may be that making the
> software either better or worse would reduce the bug triage backlog.
Sorry to disagree, in KWin we see the opposite. The better we become the bigger
the (usele
On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 15:09, Ian Wadham wrote:
> Resending. Sorry, I used the wrong sending address before and got bounced.
>
>...
> Surely there is some kind of database app behind bugzilla? Would it not
> be possible to produce reports and summaries that highlight and prioritise
> bugs accor
Hi Sven,
I am answering here as an active bug triager. Disclaimer: I am not a developer.
On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 11:56, Sven Burmeister wrote:
> Am Donnerstag, 29. September 2011, 13:25:49 schrieb Sebastian Kügler:
...
>
> So IMHO if you want good bug reports you have to start giving good feedba
On Friday, September 30, 2011 02:29:47 PM todd rme wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Sven Burmeister
>
> wrote:
> > Am Donnerstag, 29. September 2011, 13:25:49 schrieb Sebastian Kügler:
> >> > It's frustrating for users submitting bug reports when an easily
> >> > reproducible bug sits i
Le Vendredi 30 de septembre 2011 11:56:55 Sven Burmeister a écrit :
> Ok, so if a user reports a bug and gets no answer for weeks, what should he
> do? Keep posting to the bug every few weeks, blog about it, private email to
> the dev, ask on IRC (which would not be much different than a mailinglis
On 09/30/2011 01:29 PM, todd rme wrote:
I don't think any of those are good options, since all of them have
the same result: spamming developers with huge amounts of useless
information. This would only make it far more difficult to manage bug
reports. Just being patient seems like the only sol
On 09/29/2011 12:25 PM, Sebastian Kügler wrote:
This posting of bugreports to mailinglists is often seen as unnecessary, and
unfair since you're bringing attention to your pet bugs, which disadvantages
others' pet bugs.
As a user who filed a considerable number of bugs along the years, I
have
Resending. Sorry, I used the wrong sending address before and got bounced.
On 30/09/2011, at 10:29 PM, todd rme wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Sven Burmeister
> wrote:
>> Am Donnerstag, 29. September 2011, 13:25:49 schrieb Sebastian Kügler:
It's frustrating for users submitting
Am 30.09.2011 14:29, schrieb todd rme:
> On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Sven Burmeister
> wrote:
>> Am Donnerstag, 29. September 2011, 13:25:49 schrieb Sebastian Kügler:
It's frustrating for users submitting bug reports when an easily
reproducible bug sits in the queue, without even
On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Sven Burmeister
wrote:
> Am Donnerstag, 29. September 2011, 13:25:49 schrieb Sebastian Kügler:
>> > It's frustrating for users submitting bug reports when an easily
>> > reproducible bug sits in the queue, without even a comment, for six
>>
>> > months. For the r
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On 09/29/2011 11:48 AM, Sune Vuorela wrote:
> Many bug reports are 'low quality', as in 'hard to figure out what
> the submitter means'. There are really many bug reports in
> general. This leads to a fact that finding the 'high quality' bug
> reports
Am Donnerstag, 29. September 2011, 13:25:49 schrieb Sebastian Kügler:
> > It's frustrating for users submitting bug reports when an easily
> > reproducible bug sits in the queue, without even a comment, for six
>
> > months. For the record, I'm referring to this bug report here:
> This posting of
Hi,
On Wednesday, September 28, 2011 19:46:14 Bart Kelsey wrote:
> I'd like to draw attention to the fact that KDE's bug triage process is
> lacking.
Did you get in contact with the bugsquad, they'll probably appreciate your
help.
> It's frustrating for users submitting bug reports when an easi
On Wednesday 28 September 2011 13:46:14 Bart Kelsey wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I'd like to draw attention to the fact that KDE's bug triage process is
> lacking.
>
> It's frustrating for users submitting bug reports when an easily
> reproducible bug sits in the queue, without even a comment, for six
On 2011-09-28, Bart Kelsey wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I'd like to draw attention to the fact that KDE's bug triage process is
> lacking.
Hi Bart
You are absolutely right that we get more bug reports to any component
than we can currently handle, as you have noticed yourself.
I haven't looked at th
On Wednesday 28 September 2011 19:46:14 Bart Kelsey wrote:
> I'd like to draw attention to the fact that KDE's bug triage
> process is lacking.
Thanks for your offer to help with bug triage. There are over 4
bugs/wishes waiting for a comment, a confirmation, or a patch. You can
also request
Hi folks,
I'd like to draw attention to the fact that KDE's bug triage process is lacking.
It's frustrating for users submitting bug reports when an easily
reproducible bug sits in the queue, without even a comment, for six
months. For the record, I'm referring to this bug report here:
https://
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