Re: [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Sun, Jul 11 2010, Bruce Sherwood wrote: > On the notion that IDLE is fatally flawed and is driving away > potential users of Python (to put the statements in their most extreme > form): > > It seems that there are (at least) two very different communities > people have in mind. I can appreciate

Re: [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 05:20:49 -0400 "Kurt B. Kaiser" wrote: > > I'm mystified about the comments that the GUI is ugly. It is minimal. > On XP, it looks exactly like an XP window with a simple menubar. Those > who haven't looked at it for awhile may not be aware of the recent > advances made by T

Re: [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

After a few keystrokes in the interactive interpreter, I got the following traceback: Traceback (most recent call last): File "Lib/idlelib/idle.py", line 11, in idlelib.PyShell.main() File "/home/antoine/py3k/__svn__/Lib/idlelib/PyShell.py", line 1420, in main root.mainloop() File

Re: [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Hi Kurt, I'm glad you've joined this discussion. My point is that whatever the reason, for the past five years (at least) nearly every issue related to IDLE has taken years to be resolved, and many have still not been resolved. As a result the current state of IDLE is quite poor. To be perfectly

Re: [Idle-dev] [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 1:41 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: >> My point is that I don't think I am exaggerating IDLE's flaws. I'm not >> saying that it is no longer usable or useful, but I am saying that its >> current state is not "okay". > > So can you produce a list of patches that you think can

Re: [Idle-dev] [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 1:44 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: >> FWIW this is why I started IDLE-Spoon (well, continued Noam Raphael's >> project of the same name, in a sense). The idea was to have a fork of >> IDLE with new features which need to be tried out by "beta testers" to >> iron out all of t

Re: [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

If I read the patch correctly it replaces the existing 8.4 support by support for 8.5. That would not be acceptable because it would result in a non-functional version of IDLE for anyone that hasn't installed a custom copy of Tk. Not quite. It doesn't specify a version of Tk to run; it ch

Re: [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Tal Einat wrote: I would like to propose removing IDLE from the standard library. I use IDLE every day. It does everything I want an IDE to do, it looks simple and doesn't waste screen real estate like some other IDEs do, it supports proportionally spaced fonts correctly, its syntax coloring

Re: [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 7/12/10 10:16 AM, Michiel Overtoom wrote: Tal Einat wrote: I would like to propose removing IDLE from the standard library. I use IDLE every day. It does everything I want an IDE to do, it looks simple and doesn't waste screen real estate like some other IDEs do, it supports proportionally

Re: [Idle-dev] [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12 2010, Tal Einat wrote: > On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 1:44 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: >>> FWIW this is why I started IDLE-Spoon (well, continued Noam Raphael's >>> project of the same name, in a sense). The idea was to have a fork of >>> IDLE with new features which need to be tried o

Re: [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 3:20 AM, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: > > > As I recollect, much of what Scherer did in VIDLE related to running > multiple IDLE copies. > > For that reason, the VIDLE changes have to be evaluated carefully to > determine what has already been incorporated. I believe I added a >

Re: [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: >> Using Tkinter is a major reason that maintaining and further >> developing IDLE is difficult. For example, it took me many hours just >> to get a working Tkinter scrolled frame widget, having had to write it >> from scratch and struggle with the under-documented Canvas widg

Re: [Idle-dev] [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Stephen Hansen wrote: > On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 4:53 PM, Steve Holden wrote: > > > Stephen Hansen wrote: > > > On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 9:23 PM, Guilherme Polo > > > wrote: > > > > > > By "never had a problem" do you mean using some of the latest > > versions > > >

Re: [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 07/10/2010 06:05 PM, Tal Einat wrote: Hello, I would like to propose removing IDLE from the standard library. I have been using IDLE since 2002 and have been doing my best to help maintain and further develop IDLE since 2005. In recent years IDLE has received negligible interest and atten

Re: [Idle-dev] [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 6:11 PM, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: > On Mon, Jul 12 2010, Tal Einat wrote: > >> On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 1:44 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" >> wrote: FWIW this is why I started IDLE-Spoon (well, continued Noam Raphael's project of the same name, in a sense). The idea was to h

Re: [Idle-dev] [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Jul 12, 2010, at 11:36 AM, Reid Kleckner wrote: > (Somwhat off-topic): Another pain point students had was accidentally > shadowing stdlib modules, like random. Renaming the file didn't solve > the problem either, because it left behind .pycs, which I had to help > them delete. I feel your

Re: [Idle-dev] [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Am 12.07.2010 13:01, schrieb Tal Einat: > On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 1:41 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: >>> My point is that I don't think I am exaggerating IDLE's flaws. I'm not >>> saying that it is no longer usable or useful, but I am saying that its >>> current state is not "okay". >> >> So can yo

Re: [Idle-dev] [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

>> Not normally, no - there's no easy way to connect a checkin message to >> a committer's email address, > > There's a one-to-one mapping somewhere. Unfortunately, no: we don't have email addresses of all committers. Regards, Martin ___ IDLE-dev maili

Re: [Idle-dev] [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

2010/7/12 "Martin v. Löwis" : >>> Not normally, no - there's no easy way to connect a checkin message to >>> a committer's email address, >> >> There's a one-to-one mapping somewhere. > > Unfortunately, no: we don't have email addresses of all committers. What about the python-committers mailing l

Re: [Idle-dev] [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Am 12.07.2010 23:57, schrieb Benjamin Peterson: > 2010/7/12 "Martin v. Löwis" : Not normally, no - there's no easy way to connect a checkin message to a committer's email address, >>> >>> There's a one-to-one mapping somewhere. >> >> Unfortunately, no: we don't have email addresses of all

Re: [Idle-dev] [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 7/11/10 7:31 AM, Tal Einat wrote: However, I still think IDLE is not currently in a state that it should be suggested for use by beginners. Being one of those beginners... here's my $0.02 worth. IDLE being instantly available on pretty much anything I care to try my hand at python on... my