> > Better to use psselect (from the psutils suite) to re-order
> > TOCs in PostScript documents; for pdf documents, pdftk.
> > While this necessarily requires users to write a pipeline,
> > it's "the right tool," [...]
Not necessarily; see below.
> The only place it can be done properly is in t
> This thread has mentioned Kernighan's troff tutorial
> http://cm.bell-labs.com/7thEdMan/index.html
> Of course it lacks the modest, but very helpful,
> groff extensions, but it's a great base document.
There's also a useful tutorial on writing a simple
general-purpose macro package at the end o
Doug McIlroy:
> This thread has mentioned Kernighan's troff tuto-
> rial Here's where to get it:
>
> http://cm.bell-labs.com/7thEdMan/index.html
>
> Of course it lacks the modest, but very helpful,
> groff extensions, but it'sa great base document.
> I would think Brian would welcome an u
Ingo Schwarze:
> > From my own experince, the existing packages are
> > much stronger coupled with Groff and cannot be
> > used without good understanding of Groff itself.
> > I didn't try mom though.
>
> Maybe you didn't try mdoc(7), either - or only
> considered general purpose packages
Clarke Echols:
> I was working on a troff/nroff tutorial at HP back
> in 1988, but got pulled off of it to handle the
> HP-UX Reference (man pages) for four years. The
> version that got produced was a cut-down version
> for nroff only, and it never hit the bookstore
> market like the
This thread has mentioned Kernighan's troff tutorial
Here's where to get it:
http://cm.bell-labs.com/7thEdMan/index.html
Of course it lacks the modest, but very helpful,
groff extensions, but it'sa great base document.
I would think Brian would welcome an upgrade.
He's b...@princeton.edu.
Doug McI
Hi Anton,
Anton Shepelev wrote on Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 04:10:26AM +0400:
> Mike Bianchi:
>> [...] To do even the simplest document requires
>> much-too-much expertise for the rank beginner.
>>
>> What is missing is a Front Door that leads you
>> gently into the Castle, teaches you t
Hi Peter,
> Terminal copy, via -Tascii or -Tutf8, works with relatively
> straightforward documents, but no attempt has been made to support it
> fully.
That's better than I thought... Given the inherent limitations one
can't expect much more. I'll try and move reading about mom up the
"list".
Peter Schaffter:
> The "I haven't used/checked out mom" thing has
> come up a couple of times in this thread (with
> respect to introducing groff to novices), which is
> funny since mom already implements most of the
> proposals being made, viz:
> [...]
In my case this was due to lac
Ralph --
On Sat, Jul 30, 2011, Ralph Corderoy wrote:
> > In other words, mom's already the "front door": a conceptually easy,
> > flexible set of macros that's perfect for beginners, serves the needs
> > of the more experienced, and leads naturally to greater exploration of
> > groff itself.
>
>
On Sat, Jul 30, 2011, Mike Bianchi wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 01:22:53PM -0400, Peter Schaffter wrote:
> > The "I haven't used/checked out mom" thing has come up a couple of
> > times in this thread (with respect to introducing groff to novices),
> > which is funny since mom already implement
On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 01:22:53PM -0400, Peter Schaffter wrote:
> The "I haven't used/checked out mom" thing has come up a couple of
> times in this thread (with respect to introducing groff to novices),
> which is funny since mom already implements most of the proposals
> being made, viz:
>
Hi Peter,
> In other words, mom's already the "front door": a conceptually easy,
> flexible set of macros that's perfect for beginners, serves the needs
> of the more experienced, and leads naturally to greater exploration of
> groff itself.
It does sound mighty fine and I've not looked at it clo
On Sat, Jul 30, 2011, Ralph Corderoy wrote:
> simple package like ms (or perhaps mom; I've not used it)
The "I haven't used/checked out mom" thing has come up a couple of
times in this thread (with respect to introducing groff to novices),
which is funny since mom already implements most of the pr
On 30/07/11 00:31, Anton Shepelev wrote:
> Ralph Corderoy:
>> Is it non-standard? I thought the normal way was
>> to set up two passes, or more strictly a loop
>> until everything settles down into place, as this
>> is how TeX does it too IIRC. Not that TeX's way
>> of doing anything nec
Hi Mike,
> As a *roff user since the mid-1970s I am all too aware that to be good
> at this you have to know and _understand_ a lot of details about the
> document models (as represented by the different macro collections:
> man, mm, mom, ms ...) and the fundamental commands, registers, etc.
> To
On 07/29/2011 06:10 PM, Anton Shepelev wrote:
Mike Bianchi:
[...] To do even the simplest document requires
much-too-much expertise for the rank beginner.
What is missing is a Front Door that leads you
gently into the Castle, teaches you the way
through the rooms, closets and pa
Mike Bianchi:
> [...] To do even the simplest document requires
> much-too-much expertise for the rank beginner.
>
> What is missing is a Front Door that leads you
> gently into the Castle, teaches you the way
> through the rooms, closets and pantries, so you
> can live comforta
Ralph Corderoy:
> Is it non-standard? I thought the normal way was
> to set up two passes, or more strictly a loop
> until everything settles down into place, as this
> is how TeX does it too IIRC. Not that TeX's way
> of doing anything necessarily makes it right. ;-)
I meant, non-s
Mike Bianchi wrote:
> What is missing is a Front Door that leads you gently into the Castle, teaches
> you the way through the rooms, closets and pantries, so you can live
> comfortably there with what is present. Then (and only then) should you be
> led
> down into the basement and shown how t
On Fri, Jul 29, 2011, Mike Bianchi wrote:
> I worry that *roff is an old technology loved only by old people.
> It won't survive much longer if it isn't loved by people much
> younger than me.
...
> That way one would not have to memorize quite as much trivial
> detail to understand the document s
On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 05:37:41PM +0200, Werner LEMBERG wrote:
> :
> > The other day I was thinking of creating, as a first step, a set of
> > overlay macros for things like groff_mm (my macro package of choice)
> > to ease the burden of learning and understanding it:
> >
> > .mm_Abs
> As a *roff user since the mid-1970s I am all too aware that to be
> good at this you have to know and _understand_ a lot of details
> about the document models (as represented by the different macro
> collections: man, mm, mom, ms ...) and the fundamental commands,
> registers, etc. To do even
Fair warning. This started as a short "I agree" note, but ...
On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 04:12:40PM +0200, Werner LEMBERG wrote:
> >> My user opinion is that letting a postprocessor change the
> >> structure of a document is confusing. I don't like pdfroff for
> >> this reason. In my humble opini
>> My user opinion is that letting a postprocessor change the
>> structure of a document is confusing. I don't like pdfroff for
>> this reason. In my humble opinion, writing the table of content in
>> the begining of a document is a job for a troff macro.
>
> But this would require the somewhat
Hi Anton,
> But this would require the somewhat non-standard way of using troff in
> two passes.
Is it non-standard? I thought the normal way was to set up two passes,
or more strictly a loop until everything settles down into place, as
this is how TeX does it too IIRC. Not that TeX's way of do
Pierre-Jean:
> My user opinion is that letting a postprocessor
> change the structure of a document is confusing. I
> don't like pdfroff for this reason. In my humble
> opinion, writing the table of content in the
> begining of a document is a job for a troff macro.
But this would requ
On Thursday 28 Jul 2011 21:21:33 Peter Schaffter wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 28, 2011, Ralph Corderoy wrote:
> > Would it be better to leave the re-ordering to external utilities, e.g.
> > the pdftk package
> >
> > http://www.pdflabs.com/tools/pdftk-the-pdf-toolkit/
> >
> > on the basis of do one sm
On Thu, Jul 28, 2011, Ralph Corderoy wrote:
> Would it be better to leave the re-ordering to external utilities, e.g.
> the pdftk package
>
> http://www.pdflabs.com/tools/pdftk-the-pdf-toolkit/
>
> on the basis of do one small thing and do it well?
This is essentially what I concluded when w
Deri James wrote:
> Another good programmer's rule says that the best place to do something is
> "as
> soon as you can". Which places it in the domain of the document creator
> (gropdf). It's not really a radical new feature, more exposing an api to add
> pages in a non-linear fashion.
>
Hel
On Thursday 28 Jul 2011 18:02:32 Ralph Corderoy wrote:
> Hi Deri,
>
> > In a pdf every page is an object and the page order is given in an
> > array called "kids" which is an attribute of the "pages" object. So to
> > reorder the pages in a pdf is simply a case of reordering this array
> > before
Hi Deri,
> In a pdf every page is an object and the page order is given in an
> array called "kids" which is an attribute of the "pages" object. So to
> reorder the pages in a pdf is simply a case of reordering this array
> before it is written to the file. Currently I just push each new page
> on
pdfroff is a very clever and useful utility in groff and I'd appreciate advice
on how best to integrate it into gropdf. Currently gropdf includes its own
pdfmark macros which are intended as a drop in replacement for pdfmark.tmac,
in fact most of the macros are based on Keith Marshall's work.
P
33 matches
Mail list logo
