On 08/19/2015 10:39 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 9:35 PM, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
>> On 08/19/2015 09:24 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
>>>
>>> When you download software you receive a copy. You start out with
>>> zero works. Somebody sends you a copy of that work. You write it to
On Wednesday, August 19, 2015 10:43:05 PM Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 10:25 PM, Fernando Rodriguez
> wrote:
> > The GPL symbols are not necessary for interoperability. For that you need
> > little more that access to the hardware and an interface to userspace.
Most of
> > those
On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 10:37 PM, Fernando Rodriguez
wrote:
>
> Try a different exercise. Go buy a Quran. Now use it as a cryptographic key to
> encrypt an email. Is the email now a derived work? That's no a perfect analogy
> but it's more like what happens when you dynamic link a library.
But th
On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 10:25 PM, Fernando Rodriguez
wrote:
> The GPL symbols are not necessary for interoperability. For that you need
> little more that access to the hardware and an interface to userspace. Most of
> those GPL symbols are convenience routines to enable reuse of code among
> diff
On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 9:35 PM, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
> On 08/19/2015 09:24 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
>>
>> When you download software you receive a copy. You start out with
>> zero works. Somebody sends you a copy of that work. You write it to
>> disk. You end up with the same number of copi
On Wednesday, August 19, 2015 9:20:41 PM Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 8:48 PM, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
> > On 08/19/2015 08:37 PM, Fernando Rodriguez wrote:
> >>
> >> What's the purpose of these quotes?
> >> Neither of them says it doesn't allow steps 1-3. Instead of doing
select
Le 2015-08-19 22:18, walt a écrit :
I'm seeing horrible performance from the xfce window manager (xfwm4) on
my main, everyday machine, but not on an older backup machine or on any
of the linux virtual machines I run on virtualbox.
The symptoms: moving a window with the mouse is so slow as to be
On Wednesday, August 19, 2015 9:09:59 PM Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 7:40 PM, Fernando Rodriguez
> wrote:
> >
> > The law is not clear about that. But how can it not be a derived work if
it
> > doesn't work without it?
> >
>
> A is only a derived work of B if the law says it is
I'm seeing horrible performance from the xfce window manager (xfwm4) on
my main, everyday machine, but not on an older backup machine or on any
of the linux virtual machines I run on virtualbox.
The symptoms: moving a window with the mouse is so slow as to be
painful, and the CPU usage (on one of
Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 7:40 PM, Fernando Rodriguez
> wrote:
>> The law is not clear about that. But how can it not be a derived work if it
>> doesn't work without it?
>>
> A is only a derived work of B if the law says it is.
>
> My pot isn't a derived work of my stove. My b
On 08/19/2015 09:24 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
>
> When you download software you receive a copy. You start out with
> zero works. Somebody sends you a copy of that work. You write it to
> disk. You end up with the same number of copies as you were given.
>
> Cite a court case that upholds a cla
On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 6:31 PM, Jeremi Piotrowski
wrote:
>
> This discussion has been going on ever since the kernel was first
> conceived, and some matters are still not entirely clear.
Honestly, I don't think they'll be any consensus on this argument
until a court makes some kind of ruling. T
On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 9:12 PM, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
> On 08/19/2015 09:05 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 7:14 PM, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
>>>
>>> Anything you can do without the kernel source code is legal, sure. But
>>> we're talking about...
>>>
>>> 1. Downloading the k
On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 8:48 PM, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
> On 08/19/2015 08:37 PM, Fernando Rodriguez wrote:
>>
>> What's the purpose of these quotes?
>> Neither of them says it doesn't allow steps 1-3. Instead of doing selective
>> reading you should read the whole thing. If that's too much just
On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 8:04 PM, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
> On 08/19/2015 07:40 PM, Fernando Rodriguez wrote:
>>>
>>> 1. Downloading the kernel source (making a copy of) it.
>>> 2. Patching it.
>>> 3. Linking it with closed source code.
>>> 4. Distributing the result.
>>>
>>> (If that's not what yo
On 08/19/2015 09:05 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 7:14 PM, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
>>
>> Anything you can do without the kernel source code is legal, sure. But
>> we're talking about...
>>
>> 1. Downloading the kernel source (making a copy of) it.
>
> You're receiving a copy o
Le 2015-08-19 20:48, Michael Orlitzky a écrit :
On 08/19/2015 08:37 PM, Fernando Rodriguez wrote:
What's the purpose of these quotes?
Neither of them says it doesn't allow steps 1-3. Instead of doing selective
reading you should read the whole thing. If that's too much just read the first
few qu
On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 7:40 PM, Fernando Rodriguez
wrote:
>
> The law is not clear about that. But how can it not be a derived work if it
> doesn't work without it?
>
A is only a derived work of B if the law says it is.
My pot isn't a derived work of my stove. My browser isn't a derived
work o
On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 7:30 PM, Fernando Rodriguez
wrote:
>
> I'm not a lawyer but as I understand it, it's not on the "letter of the law"
> because it's a technical issue and the law hasn't caught up.
>
> My view, and what I think is most in the spirit of the law, is that it is a
> derived work
On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 7:14 PM, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
>
> Anything you can do without the kernel source code is legal, sure. But
> we're talking about...
>
> 1. Downloading the kernel source (making a copy of) it.
You're receiving a copy of it. You don't need a license to download
something.
On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 6:31 PM, Jeremi Piotrowski
wrote:
>
> They could, but I was under the impression that by using licensed software
> you agree to follow it's terms. And the binding nature of licenses is
> codified in copyright law.
You don't need a license to use software. You need a licen
On 08/19/2015 08:37 PM, Fernando Rodriguez wrote:
>
> What's the purpose of these quotes?
> Neither of them says it doesn't allow steps 1-3. Instead of doing selective
> reading you should read the whole thing. If that's too much just read the
> first
> few questions under "General understandin
Michel Catudal wrote:
> Le 2015-08-19 20:04, Michael Orlitzky a écrit :
>> On 08/19/2015 07:40 PM, Fernando Rodriguez wrote:
1. Downloading the kernel source (making a copy of) it.
2. Patching it.
3. Linking it with closed source code.
4. Distributing the result.
(If t
On Wednesday, August 19, 2015 8:04:01 PM Michael Orlitzky wrote:
> On 08/19/2015 07:40 PM, Fernando Rodriguez wrote:
> >>
> >> 1. Downloading the kernel source (making a copy of) it.
> >> 2. Patching it.
> >> 3. Linking it with closed source code.
> >> 4. Distributing the result.
> >>
> >> (If that
Le 2015-08-19 20:04, Michael Orlitzky a écrit :
On 08/19/2015 07:40 PM, Fernando Rodriguez wrote:
1. Downloading the kernel source (making a copy of) it.
2. Patching it.
3. Linking it with closed source code.
4. Distributing the result.
(If that's not what you have in mind, maybe we are at cros
On 08/19/2015 07:40 PM, Fernando Rodriguez wrote:
>>
>> 1. Downloading the kernel source (making a copy of) it.
>> 2. Patching it.
>> 3. Linking it with closed source code.
>> 4. Distributing the result.
>>
>> (If that's not what you have in mind, maybe we are at cross purposes).
>>
>> Step #1 is i
Le 2015-08-19 19:14, Michael Orlitzky a écrit :
On 08/19/2015 06:21 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
Copyright law makes everything illegal. Downloading the source and
reading it is illegal. Why wouldn't it be illegal? The copyright holders
have made it clear that you have no license to do so.
If I dis
On Wednesday, August 19, 2015 7:14:19 PM Michael Orlitzky wrote:
> On 08/19/2015 06:21 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
> >>
> >> Copyright law makes everything illegal. Downloading the source and
> >> reading it is illegal. Why wouldn't it be illegal? The copyright holders
> >> have made it clear that you
On Wednesday, August 19, 2015 5:28:37 PM Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 3:06 PM, Fernando Rodriguez
> wrote:
> >
> > The illegal part is not loading it but distributing the blob that depends
on
> > the GPL exports.
>
> What makes it illegal? Quote the text of the relevant statute
On 08/19/2015 06:21 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
>>
>> Copyright law makes everything illegal. Downloading the source and
>> reading it is illegal. Why wouldn't it be illegal? The copyright holders
>> have made it clear that you have no license to do so.
>>
>
> If I distribute a binary kernel module, I
On Wed, 19 Aug 2015, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 8:31 AM, Jeremi Piotrowski
> wrote:
> > On Wed, 19 Aug 2015, Rich Freeman wrote:
> >
> >> It sounds like you not only expect them to comply with the license,
> >> but also with the kernel devs personal interpretation of copyright
On Wednesday 19 Aug 2015 21:22:02 Jeremi Piotrowski wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Aug 2015, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > On 19/08/2015 21:58, Alec Ten Harmsel wrote:
> > > On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 08:55:16PM +0100, Mick wrote:
> > >> On Wednesday 19 Aug 2015 10:28:48 Jeremi Piotrowski wrote:
> > >>> Smart live re
On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 6:09 PM, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
> On 08/19/2015 05:28 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 3:06 PM, Fernando Rodriguez
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> The illegal part is not loading it but distributing the blob that depends on
>>> the GPL exports.
>>
>> What makes it ill
On 08/19/2015 05:28 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 3:06 PM, Fernando Rodriguez
> wrote:
>>
>> The illegal part is not loading it but distributing the blob that depends on
>> the GPL exports.
>
> What makes it illegal? Quote the text of the relevant statute or
> court case.
Co
On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 3:06 PM, Fernando Rodriguez
wrote:
>
> The illegal part is not loading it but distributing the blob that depends on
> the GPL exports.
What makes it illegal? Quote the text of the relevant statute or
court case. That is the issue here. People argue that linking
creates
On 2015-08-19, Alec Ten Harmsel wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 08:55:16PM +0100, Mick wrote:
>
>> Anyone cares to explain what is a "live ebuild"?
> A "live ebuild" is an ebuild that pulls the code to build straight
> from whatever version control the developers are using, so you always
> have
On Wed, 19 Aug 2015, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On 19/08/2015 21:58, Alec Ten Harmsel wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 08:55:16PM +0100, Mick wrote:
> >> On Wednesday 19 Aug 2015 10:28:48 Jeremi Piotrowski wrote:
> >>> Smart live rebuild only deals with live ebuilds. How would it help in this
> >>>
Jeremi Piotrowski wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Aug 2015, cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote:
>
> > So do I file a bug on bgo, or is there some other way I should contact
> > the gnome overlay maintainers/?
> >
>
> I think the easiest way would be to report throught the #gentoo-desktop
> IRC channel. They migh
On 19/08/2015 21:58, Alec Ten Harmsel wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 08:55:16PM +0100, Mick wrote:
>> On Wednesday 19 Aug 2015 10:28:48 Jeremi Piotrowski wrote:
>>> Smart live rebuild only deals with live ebuilds. How would it help in this
>>> case?
>>
>> Anyone cares to explain what is a "live e
On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 08:55:16PM +0100, Mick wrote:
> On Wednesday 19 Aug 2015 10:28:48 Jeremi Piotrowski wrote:
> > Smart live rebuild only deals with live ebuilds. How would it help in this
> > case?
>
> Anyone cares to explain what is a "live ebuild"?
>
> Then I may be able to understand wha
On Wednesday 19 Aug 2015 10:28:48 Jeremi Piotrowski wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Aug 2015, John Campbell wrote:
> > On 08/18/2015 06:38 PM, walt wrote:
> > > On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 18:03:31 -0700
> > >
> > > John Campbell wrote:
> > > > I haven't really been following this closely but I haven't seen any
> >
On Wednesday, August 19, 2015 7:00:15 AM Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 11:12 PM, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
> > On 08/18/2015 08:39 PM, Dale wrote:
> >>
> >> Here's a clue. Why doesn't the kernel devs let users decide what
> >> drivers they are comfy with using? If they don't like t
On 19/08/2015 19:05, Ajai Khattri wrote:
>
> Are packages of major versions of PHP all slotted now?
Yes
> In trying to upgrade from 5.3 to 5.6 I get the following query:
>
> # emerge -uDatvk dev-lang/php
>
> * IMPORTANT: 8 news items need reading for repository 'gentoo'.
> * Use eselect new
On Wed, 19 Aug 2015, cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> So do I file a bug on bgo, or is there some other way I should contact
> the gnome overlay maintainers/?
>
I think the easiest way would be to report throught the #gentoo-desktop
IRC channel. They might tell you to go to the bugzilla.
Jeremi Piotrowski wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Aug 2015, cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> > Well, I would be willing to do that, but the only difference between the
> > .999 ones and the regular ones is that the . ones inherit virtualx
> > and they have the following
> > inherit eutils gnome2 multilib-
On Wed, 19 Aug 2015, cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> Well, I would be willing to do that, but the only difference between the
> .999 ones and the regular ones is that the . ones inherit virtualx
> and they have the following
> inherit eutils gnome2 multilib-minimal virtualx
> if [[ ${PV} =
Are packages of major versions of PHP all slotted now?
In trying to upgrade from 5.3 to 5.6 I get the following query:
# emerge -uDatvk dev-lang/php
* IMPORTANT: 8 news items need reading for repository 'gentoo'.
* Use eselect news read to view new items.
These are the packages that would b
On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 11:09:07AM -0400, cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> Jc García wrote:
>
> > 2015-08-18 10:38 GMT-06:00 :
> > > So, how do I get the -
> > > versions of the ebuilds to give me all the correct files like the 2.16.x
> > > versions do? I know the - are from git, but it
On 2015-08-19, John Campbell wrote:
> How about "emerge --color=n --nospinner -p @smart-live-rebuild" Color
> and spinners are the only things in portage that should be using curses.
IMO, emerge should not be doing stuff like that for two reasons:
1) It's broken: the assumptions made about w
Jc García wrote:
> 2015-08-18 10:38 GMT-06:00 :
> > So, how do I get the -
> > versions of the ebuilds to give me all the correct files like the 2.16.x
> > versions do? I know the - are from git, but it should do what
> > gentoo wants.
> This isn't realistic, you can't ask the devs to
On 08/17/2015 11:37 PM, Jeremi Piotrowski wrote:
On Mon, 17 Aug 2015, Rod wrote:
Hi list,
Hi
I'm trying to figure out how to make my boot partition to boot from UEFI,
I have grub2 installed, but I keep getting a error when I ask it to install
the boot information.
First things fir
On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 8:31 AM, Jeremi Piotrowski
wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Aug 2015, Rich Freeman wrote:
>
>> It sounds like you not only expect them to comply with the license,
>> but also with the kernel devs personal interpretation of copyright
>> law.
>
> What is a license but a statement of the i
2015-08-18 10:38 GMT-06:00 :
> So, how do I get the -
> versions of the ebuilds to give me all the correct files like the 2.16.x
> versions do? I know the - are from git, but it should do what
> gentoo wants.
This isn't realistic, you can't ask the devs to check every commit
upstream mak
On Wed, 19 Aug 2015, Rich Freeman wrote:
> It sounds like you not only expect them to comply with the license,
> but also with the kernel devs personal interpretation of copyright
> law.
What is a license but a statement of the intent of the authors as to what
can and can't be done with their wor
On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 11:20 PM, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
> On 08/18/2015 09:54 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
>>
>> I think the kernel devs would be hard-pressed to mount some kind of
>> GPL infringement lawsuit. In general US courts have tended to block
>> attempts to use copyright/trademark/patents/e
On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 5:19 AM, Jeremi Piotrowski
wrote:
> Companies have frequently been ...
> applying their own interpretation of what constitutes derived work.
>...
> I have nothing against proprietary/closed source kernel modules as long as
> they comply with the terms of the licenses of ope
On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 11:12 PM, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
> On 08/18/2015 08:39 PM, Dale wrote:
>>
>> Here's a clue. Why doesn't the kernel devs let users decide what
>> drivers they are comfy with using? If they don't like the drivers, then
>> make it so that users have to install their own jus
Maybe "emerge --quiet=y -a @smart-live-rebuild"
Smart live rebuild only deals with live ebuilds. How would it help in this
case?
It seems I miss-remembered from the first post, looking back I see it
was revdep-rebuild, not smart-live-rebuild.
On Tue, 18 Aug 2015, John Campbell wrote:
> On 08/18/2015 06:38 PM, walt wrote:
> > On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 18:03:31 -0700
> > John Campbell wrote:
> >
> > > I haven't really been following this closely but I haven't seen any
> > > suggestion to use "emerge -1 --quiet=y smart-live-rebuild" to remove
On Tue, 18 Aug 2015, Dale wrote:
> I did some searching based on the config option you gave and I'm unable
> to find a way to override this myself. It doesn't seem to be a setting
> I can put in make.conf or package.use etc either. If this is the case,
> I may wish Nvidia would switch to open so
On Wednesday, August 19, 2015 09:57:19 AM Marc Joliet wrote:
> Am Tue, 18 Aug 2015 21:54:30 -0400
>
> schrieb Rich Freeman :
> > I do get the frustration of the kernel developers. The GPU makers
> > should be competing on their GPUs, not on their drivers. However,
> > Linux isn't their main mark
Am Tue, 18 Aug 2015 21:54:30 -0400
schrieb Rich Freeman :
> I do get the frustration of the kernel developers. The GPU makers
> should be competing on their GPUs, not on their drivers. However,
> Linux isn't their main market and forcing the issue is probably just
> going to drive them to ignore
Am Tue, 18 Aug 2015 20:13:53 -0700
schrieb John Campbell :
> And as
> python's an interpreted language revdep-rebuild won't find it.
Huh? If Python is the problem, I would think it's because its C implementation
uses dlopen(3) instead of linking at build time (which could apply to anything).
-
On Wednesday, August 19, 2015 03:14:36 AM Fernando Rodriguez wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 19, 2015 8:50:30 AM J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > On Wednesday, August 19, 2015 04:37:03 PM wraeth wrote:
> > > On 19/08/15 16:31, Fernando Rodriguez wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, August 19, 2015 2:25:20 AM Fernando
On Wednesday, August 19, 2015 8:50:30 AM J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 19, 2015 04:37:03 PM wraeth wrote:
> > On 19/08/15 16:31, Fernando Rodriguez wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, August 19, 2015 2:25:20 AM Fernando Rodriguez wrote:
> > >> On Wednesday, August 19, 2015 4:03:59 PM wraeth wro
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