Hi,
# Christian Faulhammer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (12 Jun 2007)
# mask for removal:
# upstream dead, does not work with current Emacs 22
# replacement is app-emacs/slime{,-cvs}
app-emacs/ilisp
app-emacs/ilisp-cvs
V-Li
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Hi all,
I think it's worth to discuss the `behaviour of removing ebuilds from
the tree`.
In my opinion, ebuilds are removed too soon, i.e. if an ebuild gets
updated
the older ebuild gets removed in the same turn. In my opinion, it is
better to
keep the older ebuild around for a while sinc
cilly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> What do you think?
I agree with that.
> PS: other topics to be discussed `Not to modify ebuilds which are
> already in the tree... even if masked` what do you think?
Explain please.
--
http://www.gentoo.org/
http://www.faulhammer.org/
http://www.gnupg.org/
si
On Jun 12, 2007, at 11:49 AM, Christian Faulhammer wrote:
PS: other topics to be discussed `Not to modify ebuilds which are
already in the tree... even if masked` what do you think?
Explain please.
I will start a new topic on that.
cec
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
cilly wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I think it's worth to discuss the `behaviour of removing ebuilds from
> the tree`.
Currently it's up to the developer, some people are more conservative,
some prefer to get rid of certain stuff asap.
You should differentiate between ~ and stable ones btw...
>
> In my
On Tue, Jun 12, 2007 at 11:40:26AM +0200, cilly wrote:
> In my opinion, ebuilds are removed too soon, i.e. if an ebuild gets
> updated the older ebuild gets removed in the same turn. In my
> opinion, it is better to keep the older ebuild around for a while
> since if there are some bugs in the
On Tue, Jun 12, 2007 at 11:59:28AM +0200, Luca Barbato wrote:
> lu - that prefers less rules and more people aware.
Couldn't agree more.
- ferdy
--
Fernando J. Pereda Garcimartín
20BB BDC3 761A 4781 E6ED ED0B 0A48 5B0C 60BD 28D4
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Hi all,
I think it is worth to discuss about `Do not modify ebuilds which are
already in the tree... even if masked.`
Sometimes ebuilds which are already in the portage tree are modified
without changing the
version-number, i.e. ebuild-r1 is in the portage tree and the ebuild-
r1 gets chan
On Jun 12, 2007, at 12:01 PM, Fernando J. Pereda wrote:
I think that setting arbitrary guidelines that try to rule every
situation is just *plain* wrong.
Some of the packages I maintain are better removed when a new
maintenance version is released. And I plan to keep it that way :)
As usual, d
On Tue, Jun 12, 2007 at 12:07:11PM +0200, cilly wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I think it is worth to discuss about `Do not modify ebuilds which are
> already in the tree... even if masked.`
>
> Sometimes ebuilds which are already in the portage tree are modified
> without changing the version-number,
cilly wrote:
> What do you think?
There is already a guideline about it it basically says :
"Every changes that just fix an issue for a certain deals of users (e.g.
optional dep version bump, different use handling, anything that makes
the program not build just in that particular case BUT doesn
cilly kirjoitti:
> Hi all,
>
> I think it is worth to discuss about `Do not modify ebuilds which are
> already in the tree... even if masked.`
>
> Sometimes ebuilds which are already in the portage tree are modified
> without changing the
> version-number, i.e. ebuild-r1 is in the portage tree an
On Tue, Jun 12, 2007 at 12:14:37PM +0200, cilly wrote:
> On Jun 12, 2007, at 12:01 PM, Fernando J. Pereda wrote:
>
> > I think that setting arbitrary guidelines that try to rule every
> > situation is just *plain* wrong.
> >
> > Some of the packages I maintain are better removed when a new
> > ma
On Jun 12, 2007, at 12:21 PM, Luca Barbato wrote:
There is already a guideline about it it basically says :
"Every changes that just fix an issue for a certain deals of users
(e.g.
optional dep version bump, different use handling, anything that
makes
the program not build just in that pa
On Jun 12, 2007, at 12:20 PM, Petteri Räty wrote:
http://devmanual.gentoo.org/general-concepts/ebuild-revisions/
index.html
This is the current policy. So far it has worked quite well for me
at least.
Okay, does this include ~ packages? And what about hard masked ones?--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Jun 12, 2007, at 12:21 PM, Fernando J. Pereda wrote:
Well, if maintainers can't properly follow upstream development they
should probably seek help in their maintenance job.
Hi Fernando,
well, I wouldn't bring up this discussion if there aren't any
problems. I `think` a reminder to all d
Fernando J. Pereda wrote:
Some of the packages I maintain are better removed when a new
maintenance version is released. And I plan to keep it that way :)
Can you clarify this? What scenarios do you run into where it isn't
good for stable users to have access to more than one version of the
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cilly wrote:
> well, I wouldn't bring up this discussion if there aren't any problems.
Hi Cecilia,
perhaps you could go into some more specifics of these problems?
Which packages were removed and were they stable, testing or masked at the
time of rem
Richard Freeman wrote:
> Can you clarify this? What scenarios do you run into where it isn't
> good for stable users to have access to more than one version of the
> software?
- Security issues.
- "Downgrade to hell" scenarios
- Other colorful issues that may happen from time to time.
>
> One
On Tue, Jun 12, 2007 at 06:36:31AM -0400, Richard Freeman wrote:
> Fernando J. Pereda wrote:
> > Some of the packages I maintain are better removed when a new
> > maintenance version is released. And I plan to keep it that way :)
>
> Can you clarify this? What scenarios do you run into where it
On Jun 12, 2007, at 12:40 PM, Marijn Schouten (hkBst) wrote:
Hi Cecilia,
perhaps you could go into some more specifics of these problems?
Which packages were removed and were they stable, testing or masked
at the
time of removal? What problems did the removal cause?
Marijn
Hi Marijn,
ple
On Jun 12, 2007, at 12:48 PM, Luca Barbato wrote:
Keep in mind that the trade off is :
- our time
- our sanity
- what provide to our used
- the quality of what we provide to out users.
We all try our best to not burn out while serving you the best we
could
think.
Does it make such a diffe
On Jun 12, 2007, at 12:46 PM, Fernando J. Pereda wrote:
Known to be buggy versions.
Of course, there are bugs in every version. Sometimes a user must be
able to choose which bug is more problematic, i.e. the bug in the
newer ebuild which makes the package unusable for them or the older
b
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Richard Freeman wrote:
> One thing that I noticed is that in many cases there are multiple
> testing versions of a package available, and one stable version. So, if
> you run unstable you can pick and choose, but if you're running stable
> (which in t
On Jun 12, 2007, at 12:53 PM, cilly wrote:
Of course, there are bugs in every version. Sometimes a user must
be able to choose which bug is more problematic, i.e. the bug in
the newer ebuild which makes the package unusable for them or the
older bug which has a security issue the users are
On Tue, Jun 12, 2007 at 12:53:16PM +0200, cilly wrote:
> On Jun 12, 2007, at 12:46 PM, Fernando J. Pereda wrote:
>
> > Known to be buggy versions.
>
> Of course, there are bugs in every version. Sometimes a user must be able to
> choose which bug is more problematic, i.e. the bug in the newer
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cilly wrote:
> please, understand that I do not want to `blame` any developer, unless
> it is discussed here with a final solution. Since I am not a gentoo-dev,
> some of the devs `may not understand` my concerns and probably `feel
> offended`.
Hi Cec
On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 12:07:11 +0200
cilly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I think it is worth to discuss about `Do not modify ebuilds which
> are already in the tree... even if masked.`
>
> Sometimes ebuilds which are already in the portage tree are modified
> without changing the
> ve
cilly kirjoitti:
> On Jun 12, 2007, at 12:48 PM, Luca Barbato wrote:
>
>> Keep in mind that the trade off is :
>>
>> - our time
>> - our sanity
>> - what provide to our used
>> - the quality of what we provide to out users.
>>
>> We all try our best to not burn out while serving you the best we co
On Jun 12, 2007, at 1:03 PM, Fernando J. Pereda wrote:
If the user thinks he knows better than me which version he wants to
use, there is the code. I'll still keep in Gentoo's tree whatever *I*
feel it is best for every gentoo user.
Fernando, I do not complain against you, may be if everyone w
cilly wrote:
> Sometimes the chance for the users to place the ebuild comfortably into
> overlay is simply taken, since the ebuild has been removed and doesn't
> exist after a sync anymore.
any ebuild from day 0 till now lives in the cvs, you can fetch it from
the cvs attic anytime, I'm afraid thi
Richard Freeman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> One thing that I noticed is that in many cases there are multiple
> testing versions of a package available, and one stable version. So,
> if you run unstable you can pick and choose, but if you're running
> stable (which in theory should be the target audi
On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 12:59:42 +0200
cilly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Jun 12, 2007, at 12:53 PM, cilly wrote:
> Additional:
>
> Sometimes the chance for the users to place the ebuild comfortably
> into overlay is simply taken, since the ebuild has been removed and
> doesn't exist after a s
On Jun 12, 2007, at 1:27 PM, Luca Barbato wrote:
any ebuild from day 0 till now lives in the cvs, you can fetch it from
the cvs attic anytime, I'm afraid this information isn't exactly well
known =/
I am aware of it, but this means much more "frickle"-time (forget
frickle if you don't know i
On Jun 12, 2007, at 1:29 PM, Christoph Mende wrote:
It's not, CVS keeps every ebuild around, just go to sources.gentoo.org
and hit "Show X dead files" in the dir of the ebuild you want ;)
so you misunderstood comfortably :)
--
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On Jun 12, 2007, at 12:55 PM, Marius Mauch wrote:
Hi Marius,
Not realistic. Think about it:
- upstream location for a package changes, so old SRC_URI stops
working. If we don't update the existing ebuild people can't use it
anymore, if we bump it to a new revision existing users "have to"
perfo
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cilly wrote:
> I also recommend to manage hard-masked packages the same way, it
> prevents confusion in
> bug-reports.
I don't agree for hard-masked packages. Sometimes they are hard-masked
because of being under development, and are changed several t
On Jun 12, 2007, at 1:21 PM, Petteri Räty wrote:
Nope and they should usually be kept but we can't make a hard rule
because there are cases where the old ebuilds don't work any more. If
you find that a broken version slipped the cracks of the arch teams
and
made it to stable with the old vers
On Jun 12, 2007, at 1:25 PM, Christian Faulhammer wrote:
That is not by purpose. Most people clean-up a package when
stabilisation round has been done. So I must say clarify my first
statement: I think it is a good idea to have old stable versions in
the
tree, but that should be the choice
On Jun 12, 2007, at 1:50 PM, Vlastimil Babka wrote:
I don't agree for hard-masked packages. Sometimes they are hard-masked
because of being under development, and are changed several times
until
unmasked (think about new KDE versions etc). Revbumping with each
change
and then finally unmask
On Jun 12, 2007, at 1:56 PM, Christian Faulhammer wrote:
P.S.: I think you are fighting against windmills here. Most devs are
happy with the current policy, and even I see no urgent point from
your
arguments.
yeah, I already figured out...
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
cilly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Okay, I understand that. Just keep in mind, that order bugs to the
> ebuilds might be more difficult without changing the version number.
> And the guidelines say, if an ebuild is changed the version number
> i.e. -rx should be increased.
You have the cvs diff
On Jun 12, 2007, at 1:56 PM, Christoph Mende wrote:
It seems a bit that you didn't fully understand that case. That
package
fails to install for 10% but works flawlessly for the other 90%. Those
10% will get the fix even without a version bump, the other 90% don't,
but that's ok, they don't ne
On Jun 12, 2007, at 2:05 PM, Christian Faulhammer wrote:
You have the cvs diff abilites and we have a header that says which
CVS revision one is having.
Well, who are bugreporters? I'd say a lot of users report bugs who
don't use CVS at all. And they even don't know about the different
CV
cilly wrote:
> So this will require users to file a bugreport, but I for myself am
> burned out in filing bugreports related to ebuilds concerning this
> matter... I know what is to be done by myself: uncomfortably browsing
> the source and packing the older ebuild into overlay.
Another solution c
On Jun 12, 2007, at 1:56 PM, Christian Faulhammer wrote:
P.S.: I think you are fighting against windmills here. Most devs are
happy with the current policy, and even I see no urgent point from
your
arguments.
So this will require users to file a bugreport, but I for myself am
burned out
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cilly wrote:
> On Jun 12, 2007, at 12:55 PM, Marius Mauch wrote:
>> - a mistake in the ebuild prevents installation for 10% of the users,
>> but doesn't affect runtime behavior. SHould we bump it just for that
>> and "force" the other 90% of the users
On Jun 12, 2007, at 2:14 PM, Carsten Lohrke wrote:
Could you please stop spamming the list with your one sentence
replies!
Waiting a day and then sending a single subsuming reply to the most
important
arguments suffices completely. The mailing list is not a chat channel.
Carsten
Hi list,
Luca Barbato schrieb:
> Another solution could be provide a nice script that does that for you...
Prefix project uses one already ;) Worth trying
Greetz
-jokey
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cilly wrote:
> On Jun 12, 2007, at 2:05 PM, Christian Faulhammer wrote:
>
>> You have the cvs diff abilites and we have a header that says which
>> CVS revision one is having.
>
> Well, who are bugreporters? I'd say a lot of users report bugs who don't
> use CVS at all. And they even don't know
Btw, both of your issues could probably be solved by bug 126059 without
adding new rules or new work for ebuild devs.
--
Public Key at http://www.genone.de/info/gpg-key.pub
In the beginning, there was nothing. And God said, 'Let there be
Light.' And there was still nothing, but you could see a b
On Jun 12, 2007, at 2:55 PM, Marius Mauch wrote:
Btw, both of your issues could probably be solved by bug 126059
without
adding new rules or new work for ebuild devs.
Thanks a lot for this, I totally agree.
--
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cilly wrote:
> On Jun 12, 2007, at 12:46 PM, Fernando J. Pereda wrote:
>
>> Known to be buggy versions.
>
> Of course, there are bugs in every version. Sometimes a user must be
> able to choose which bug is more problematic, i.e. the bug in the newer
cilly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted
[EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted below, on
Tue, 12 Jun 2007 12:59:42 +0200:
> On Jun 12, 2007, at 12:53 PM, cilly wrote:
>
>> Of course, there are bugs in every version. Sometimes a user must be
>> able to choose which bug is more problematic, i.e. the bug in the new
On Mon, Jun 11, 2007 at 02:35:42PM +0200, Alexander Gabert wrote:
> You left the project and it's your choice to continue working with it and on
> it.
Nonono, you got it all wrong.
He didn't leave, he was fired [1].
cheers,
Wernfried
[1] https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=114944
On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 21:00:55 +0200
Wernfried Haas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 11, 2007 at 02:35:42PM +0200, Alexander Gabert wrote:
> > You left the project and it's your choice to continue working with
> > it and on it.
>
> Nonono, you got it all wrong.
> He didn't leave, he was fi
On Mon, Jun 11, 2007 at 10:54:31PM +0100, Steve Long wrote:
> after all Paludis is useless without the portage tree.
Untrue.
--
Alexander Færøy
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Am Dienstag, den 12.06.2007, 20:46 +0100 schrieb Stephen Bennett:
> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 21:00:55 +0200
> Wernfried Haas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Jun 11, 2007 at 02:35:42PM +0200, Alexander Gabert wrote:
> > > You left the project and it's your choice to continue working with
> > >
Am Dienstag, den 12.06.2007, 21:57 +0200 schrieb Alexander Færøy:
> On Mon, Jun 11, 2007 at 10:54:31PM +0100, Steve Long wrote:
> > after all Paludis is useless without the portage tree.
>
> Untrue.
Care to elaborate?
That would also mean, that a harddisk isn't useless without any
platters.
s
On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:12:27 +0200
Benjamin Judas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Am Dienstag, den 12.06.2007, 21:57 +0200 schrieb Alexander Færøy:
> > On Mon, Jun 11, 2007 at 10:54:31PM +0100, Steve Long wrote:
> > > after all Paludis is useless without the portage tree.
> >
> > Untrue.
>
> Care
On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:10:32 +0200
Benjamin Judas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...which means that he has a documented history of trolling not only
> on mailinglists but also in irc-channels; not only against developers
> but also against volunteering users.
So do most people on this list.
--
[E
Am Dienstag, den 12.06.2007, 17:23 -0400 schrieb Stephen P. Becker:
> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:12:27 +0200
> Benjamin Judas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Am Dienstag, den 12.06.2007, 21:57 +0200 schrieb Alexander Færøy:
> > > On Mon, Jun 11, 2007 at 10:54:31PM +0100, Steve Long wrote:
> > > > aft
Am Dienstag, den 12.06.2007, 22:44 +0100 schrieb Stephen Bennett:
> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:10:32 +0200
> Benjamin Judas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > ...which means that he has a documented history of trolling not only
> > on mailinglists but also in irc-channels; not only against developers
>
On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:42:45 +0200
Benjamin Judas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Let's see...CRAN repository support, rubygems support, not to
> > mention the QA and search tools which may be used on any ebuild
> > overlay or repository.
>
> Oh, and all these repositories are not organized as a po
Benjamin Judas wrote:
> Am Dienstag, den 12.06.2007, 22:44 +0100 schrieb Stephen Bennett:
>
>> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:10:32 +0200
>> Benjamin Judas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> ...which means that he has a documented history of trolling not only
>>> on mailinglists but also in irc-c
Stephen Bennett wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:10:32 +0200
> Benjamin Judas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>> ...which means that he has a documented history of trolling not only
>> on mailinglists but also in irc-channels; not only against developers
>> but also against volunteering users.
>>
> So (without a Portage tree) it replaces the oldgrown single-liner
> wget foo; tar -xzf foo; cd foo; ./configure; make; make install
Are you implying that there would be much more involved with anything
currently in the gentoo tree in the absence of portage?
/me cracks the bell
-Steve
signatu
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Ilya A. Volynets-Evenbakh wrote:
> Stephen Bennett wrote:
>> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:10:32 +0200
>> Benjamin Judas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> ...which means that he has a documented history of trolling not only
>>> on mailinglists but also
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On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:10:32 +0200
Benjamin Judas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Am Dienstag, den 12.06.2007, 20:46 +0100 schrieb Stephen Bennett:
> > On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 21:00:55 +0200
> > Wernfried Haas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > On Mon, Ju
2007-06-11, Matti Bickel sanoi:
> Christian Faulhammer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Olivier Galibert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > > So my question is, what could I do to help having it end up in the
> > > official package database?
> >
> > Become a developer.
>
> From the looks of it, there's alr
Steev Klimaszewski wrote:
> Ilya A. Volynets-Evenbakh wrote:
> > Stephen Bennett wrote:
> >> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:10:32 +0200
> >> Benjamin Judas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> ...which means that he has a documented history of trolling not only
> >>> on mailinglists but also in ir
Steev Klimaszewski wrote:
So this other list would allow non-civil discussions to continue and
rage on? I mean, you wouldn't have to be civil to others on it, you
could just join and start trolling everyone?
Read the bug I filed with infra. You'll find the answer to this there.
--Kumba
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