Just a comment before this discussion gets entirely side tracked.
On Mon, Oct 12, 2015, at 11:45 CDT, Ian Delaney wrote:
> [...]
> Users are neither seasoned nor prepared for the type of review put
> upon them by him and mgorny.
My impression is that the reception of the code review on githu
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 13:13:15 +0800
Ian Delaney wrote:
> The main target learners here are keen users. You can take told a
> mistake with the background and status of a dev. They don't. They are
> often intimidated and fearful if gentoo devs. We wonder why.
So how about letting them that if they m
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:19:34 -0700
Matt Turner wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 7:23 AM, hasufell wrote:
> >
> > I'm not a native speaker and people have more than once told you
> > that your language is difficult to understand.
> >
> > So, can you elaborate what your sarcastic (that's how I rea
On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 7:23 AM, hasufell wrote:
> On 10/12/2015 04:12 PM, Ian Delaney wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 15:47:19 +0200
>> hasufell wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/12/2015 03:29 PM, Ian Delaney wrote:
Not sure how to read this. The whole idea is for provider / client
to communicate
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 15:53:42 +0200
hasufell wrote:
> On 10/12/2015 03:41 PM, Alexis Ballier wrote:
> >
> > They might have failed to notify it,
>
> I did that 2 hours ago already on this thread. What does that tell
> us ;)
yes, I noticed from there :p
what I meant was rather that it hadn't
On 10/12/2015 04:12 PM, Ian Delaney wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 15:47:19 +0200
> hasufell wrote:
>
>> On 10/12/2015 03:29 PM, Ian Delaney wrote:
>>>
>>> Not sure how to read this. The whole idea is for provider / client
>>> to communicate and negotiate a workable solution. At a glance this
>>> r
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 15:47:19 +0200
hasufell wrote:
> On 10/12/2015 03:29 PM, Ian Delaney wrote:
> >
> > Not sure how to read this. The whole idea is for provider / client
> > to communicate and negotiate a workable solution. At a glance this
> > reads as the user needs to adapt to the service th
On 10/12/2015 03:51 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
> That's why I
> suggested a top-5 list or something like that, which would have weeded
> out false positives and focus more on resolutions and trends than
> individual incidents.
>
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Reviewers/Common_issues
On 10/12/2015 03:58 PM, wraeth wrote:
> I don't expect everything to have been within the N^th degree of
> perfection from day one; and I honestly hope the Reviewers project
> finds its feet and benefits the community; I just believe that it's
> first day could have been handled better.
>
We've h
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On 12/10/15 22:15, hasufell wrote:
> On 10/12/2015 06:44 AM, wraeth wrote:
>>
>> I am aware of this and that it has been the way for quite some
>> time. However, while it may be the norm in the wider FOSS
>> community, it has not been the norm on t
On 10/12/2015 03:41 PM, Alexis Ballier wrote:
>
> They might have failed to notify it,
I did that 2 hours ago already on this thread. What does that tell us ;)
but I think they've taken into
> account most, if not all, of the problems that had been pointed out:
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Pr
On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 9:29 AM, Ian Delaney wrote:
>
> Not sure how to read this. The whole idea is for provider / client to
> communicate and negotiate a workable solution. At a glance this reads
> as the user needs to adapt to the service that the client is offering
> and appease the provider.
On 10/12/2015 03:29 PM, Ian Delaney wrote:
>
> Not sure how to read this. The whole idea is for provider / client to
> communicate and negotiate a workable solution. At a glance this reads
> as the user needs to adapt to the service that the client is offering
> and appease the provider. What's wr
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 21:29:26 +0800
Ian Delaney wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 13:16:01 +0200
> hasufell wrote:
>
> > On 10/12/2015 06:56 AM, Matt Turner wrote:
> > >
> > > So work with the reviewers to ensure the communication is tactful
> > > and graceful.
> > >
> >
> > That would be appre
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 13:16:01 +0200
hasufell wrote:
> On 10/12/2015 06:56 AM, Matt Turner wrote:
> >
> > So work with the reviewers to ensure the communication is tactful
> > and graceful.
> >
>
> That would be appreciated. So far, we mostly got people complaining
> (and some setting up sieve f
On 10/12/2015 06:56 AM, Matt Turner wrote:
>
> So work with the reviewers to ensure the communication is tactful and
> graceful.
>
That would be appreciated. So far, we mostly got people complaining (and
some setting up sieve filters to throw all our mails to trash), but not
people offering hel
On 10/12/2015 06:44 AM, wraeth wrote:
>
> I am aware of this and that it has been the way for quite
> some time. However, while it may be the norm in the wider FOSS
> community, it has not been the norm on the gentoo-dev list - certainly
> people will post things specifically for review, or may hi
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On 12/10/15 15:56, Matt Turner wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 9:44 PM, wraeth
> wrote:
>> This education process was implemented in a way that
>> indiscriminately pointed the finger at contributors, developer
>> and user alike, sometimes
>
> I th
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 09:56:28 -0700
Matt Turner wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 1:17 AM, wraeth wrote:
> > I am one of the users who spoke to idella4 about this, but I wanted
> > to repeat this publicly in order to highlight the point of view of
> > contributing user as opposed to a developer.
>
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 19:37:23 -0700
Matt Turner wrote:
> >>
> >> Mailing list review is the *norm* in the free software world.
> >>
> >
> > Oh, the norm
>
> You're being quite rude with attempted mockery -- actually, the rest
> of your reply is pretty abrupt as well.
>
> If you want to fight, fi
On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 9:49 PM, NP-Hardass wrote:
> I'm not sure if this is what Ian is referring to, but between the sheer
> quantity (flooding) and the way I perceived some of the messages to be
> formulated, it all seemed rather abrasive in nature. Of course this
> was my own viewpoint on how
On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 9:44 PM, wraeth wrote:
> I'm not trying to escalate the argument but you seem to have
> misinterpreted my initial message.
>
> On 12/10/15 03:56, Matt Turner wrote:
>> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 1:17 AM, wraeth wrote:
>>> I am one of the users who spoke to idella4 about this,
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 19:37:23 -0700
Matt Turner wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 5:03 PM, Ian Delaney
> wrote:
>> On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 09:56:28 -0700 Matt Turner
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 1:17 AM, wraeth
>>> wrote:
>>
I feel that it is inappropriate for criticisms
I'm not trying to escalate the argument but you seem to have
misinterpreted my initial message.
On 12/10/15 03:56, Matt Turner wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 1:17 AM, wraeth wrote:
>> I am one of the users who spoke to idella4 about this, but I wanted
>> to repeat this publicly in order to high
On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 5:03 PM, Ian Delaney wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 09:56:28 -0700
> Matt Turner wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 1:17 AM, wraeth wrote:
>
>> >
>> > I feel that it is inappropriate for criticisms of contributor's
>> > work to be broadcast on a mailing list that is read n
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 09:56:28 -0700
Matt Turner wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 1:17 AM, wraeth wrote:
> >
> > I feel that it is inappropriate for criticisms of contributor's
> > work to be broadcast on a mailing list that is read not only by the
> > developer community, but by users as well, w
On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 1:17 AM, wraeth wrote:
> I am one of the users who spoke to idella4 about this, but I wanted to
> repeat this publicly in order to highlight the point of view of
> contributing user as opposed to a developer.
>
> Firstly I would like to say that I appreciate feedback on my
Dnia 2015-10-11, o godz. 13:02:50
Manuel Rüger napisał(a):
> On 11.10.2015 10:29, Brendan Horan wrote:
> > - On 11 Oct, 2015, at 4:17 PM, wraeth wra...@wraeth.id.au wrote:
> >
> >> On 11/10/15 18:52, Ian Delaney wrote:
> >>> On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 16:27:15 +0200 Alexis Ballier
> >>> wrote:
> >
Dnia 2015-10-11, o godz. 15:52:40
Ian Delaney napisał(a):
> To my observation the reaction to this has been between displeasure and
> dismay. Yesterday the dev-ML was flooded with the first day's
> publication of the members' reviews. Firstly the gentoo-commits ML to my
> understanding is intende
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 13:02:50 +0200
Manuel Rüger wrote:
> It might be also worth to think about limiting the feedback to the
> actual patch that is included in a pull request or whatever is used as
> transport media.
> I have the feeling that some pull requests are accepted, after the
> package ha
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 13:04:31 +0200
hasufell wrote:
> On 10/11/2015 09:52 AM, Ian Delaney wrote:
> >
> > To my observation the reaction to this has been between displeasure
> > and dismay. Yesterday the dev-ML was flooded with the first day's
> > publication of the members' reviews. Firstly the
On 10/11/2015 09:19 AM, Sven Vermeulen wrote:
>
> This is good news. There are quite a few developers that manage a small
> subset of packages while doing tremendous work for Gentoo within that
> community. For instance, they focus on particular deliverables in
> repositories which eventually get
On 10/11/2015 09:52 AM, Ian Delaney wrote:
>
> To my observation the reaction to this has been between displeasure and
> dismay. Yesterday the dev-ML was flooded with the first day's
> publication of the members' reviews. Firstly the gentoo-commits ML to my
> understanding is intended to be used
On 11.10.2015 10:29, Brendan Horan wrote:
> - On 11 Oct, 2015, at 4:17 PM, wraeth wra...@wraeth.id.au wrote:
>
>> On 11/10/15 18:52, Ian Delaney wrote:
>>> On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 16:27:15 +0200 Alexis Ballier
>>> wrote:
>>>
On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 10:09:11 +0200 Michał Górny
wrote:
>
On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 20:37:39 +0200
hasufell wrote:
[...]
> >> This is just a concept of peer-reviewing, which was very difficult
> >> in CVS times.
> >
> > I fail to see how post-commit reviews are made easier with git.
> >
>
> Quite offtopic, but we could discuss this off-list if you want.
Y
- On 11 Oct, 2015, at 4:17 PM, wraeth wra...@wraeth.id.au wrote:
> On 11/10/15 18:52, Ian Delaney wrote:
>> On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 16:27:15 +0200 Alexis Ballier
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 10:09:11 +0200 Michał Górny
>>> wrote:
>>>
Hello, developers.
I have the pleasu
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 19:17:58 +1100
wraeth wrote:
> On 11/10/15 18:52, Ian Delaney wrote:
> > On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 16:27:15 +0200 Alexis Ballier
> > wrote:
> >
>
> I am one of the users who spoke to idella4 about this, but I wanted to
> repeat this publicly in order to highlight the point of vie
On 11/10/15 18:52, Ian Delaney wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 16:27:15 +0200 Alexis Ballier
> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 10:09:11 +0200 Michał Górny
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello, developers.
>>>
>>> I have the pleasure
>
> :?
>
>>> to announce that we have formed a new Reviewers team [1] for
>>
On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 16:27:15 +0200
Alexis Ballier wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 10:09:11 +0200
> Michał Górny wrote:
>
> > Hello, developers.
> >
> > I have the pleasure
:?
> > to announce that we have formed a new Reviewers
> > team [1] for Gentoo. The team is going to assemble developers
>
On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 10:09:11AM +0200, Michał Górny wrote:
> I have the pleasure to announce that we have formed a new Reviewers
> team [1] for Gentoo. The team is going to assemble developers willing
> to perform ebuild reviews and help contributors improve their ebuild
> skills.
>
> The main
On 10/10/2015 05:34 PM, Alexis Ballier wrote:
>
> It is no secret that I don't care about "hats" :)
> If someone is right, he's right, a QA hat doesn't make something wrong
> magically right. Also, if you'd ask me, QA should be more about Quality
> Assurance, meaning training people, writing docs,
On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 16:44:45 +0200
hasufell wrote:
> On 10/10/2015 04:27 PM, Alexis Ballier wrote:
> >> The side goal is to review current Gentoo commits for major QA
> >> violations and other issues, aiming at improving the quality of
> >> ebuilds in Gentoo and helping other developers using bas
On 10/10/2015 04:27 PM, Alexis Ballier wrote:
>> The side goal is to review current Gentoo commits for major QA
>> violations and other issues, aiming at improving the quality of
>> ebuilds in Gentoo and helping other developers using bash, ebuilds
>> and git effectively.
>
> This is completely un
On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 10:09:11 +0200
Michał Górny wrote:
> Hello, developers.
>
> I have the pleasure to announce that we have formed a new Reviewers
> team [1] for Gentoo. The team is going to assemble developers willing
> to perform ebuild reviews and help contributors improve their ebuild
> ski
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