gt; Do I understand correctly?
>
> No, TV makers and others advertise UPnP as DLNA (digital living network
> appliance) but that actually refers to both port forwarding (eg. used in
> consoles) and to media streaming (eg. PC to TV).
DLNA is actually a subset of UPnP with some
On Tue, 2012-09-11 at 20:01 +0200, Luca Barbato wrote:
> On 9/10/12 11:05 PM, William Hubbs wrote:
> > On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 04:26:10PM -0400, Olivier Crête wrote:
> >> On Mon, 2012-09-10 at 09:48 -0500, William Hubbs wrote:
> >>> In researching this program, I
thoughts about whether we should keep OpenRC
> support for one or both of these?
The ifplugd author recommends you use NetworkManager for dynamic
networking scenarios.
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where cpu and
> platform are determined by use flags.
>
> Should we drop the get_libdir and put them in /usr/lib/grub instead?
> Should I even worry about it?
There really have no reason to be in $(get_libdir) as they're not
compiled for the platform implied by $(get_libdir) !
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it, don't put OpenRC in the
> > dependency list of baselayout, otherwise it gets pulled in (and
> > sysvinit with it) for all systemd users even if we don't use it at
> > all.
>
> Good idea. While we're at it, please also let's not make
> systemd/u
On Thu, 2012-08-09 at 13:31 -0500, William Hubbs wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 09, 2012 at 11:12:46AM -0700, Olivier Crête wrote:
> > > Most ideas behind systemd are interesting, their current implementation
> > > is sometimes completely wrong and given the experience with pulseaudio
&
On Thu, 2012-08-09 at 10:42 +0200, Luca Barbato wrote:
> On 08/07/2012 09:00 PM, Olivier Crête wrote:
> > I expect that in the not so long term, systemd will become an essential
> > user-space component of desktop Linux, just like crond, syslog, dbus,
> > udev or glibc. S
but that doesn't gain you anything.
Refs:
[1] http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/hostnamed
[2] http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/timedated
[3] http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/localed
[4] http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/logind
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On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 20:28 +0200, Fabian Groffen wrote:
> On 06-08-2012 11:16:52 -0700, Olivier Crête wrote:
> > On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 13:56 +0200, Fabian Groffen wrote:
> > > While OpenRC is likely perfectly capable of starting/stopping daemons as
> > > a normal user (
27;s well published plan for world domination is to use systemd as
a session manager, so it would replace gnome-session, etc. Lennart &
friends are currently pushing kernel patches to make it fully recursive
(such as being able to re-parent orphaned processes to the session's
systemd instead
s were based on. Btrfs
> might change our expectations. I'm assuming that btrfs will be the
> standard production fs in a few years.
The big thing that btrfs brings is snapshots and subvolumes... So it
makes it possible to do atomic upgrades and such. Also, you can have
"apps" be subvolumes and also handled atomically.
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, we have
dependencies on udev for certain features.
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On Tue, 2012-07-17 at 23:54 -0400, Richard Yao wrote:
> On 07/17/2012 07:07 PM, Olivier Crête wrote:
> > On Tue, 2012-07-17 at 18:41 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:
> >> If somebody really is pushing for an all-out /usr move by all means
> >> speak up, but I think that
On Tue, 2012-07-17 at 20:37 -0400, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
> On 2012-07-17, at 7:07 PM, Olivier Crête wrote:
>
> > I'm sure most people can't
> > even explain the difference between them.
> >
>
> /sbin is for bins that only root should be able to run. e
On Tue, 2012-07-17 at 20:37 -0400, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
> On 2012-07-17, at 7:07 PM, Olivier Crête wrote:
>
> > I'm sure most people can't
> > even explain the difference between them.
> >
>
> /sbin is for bins that only root should be able to run.
n the difference between them.
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ode,
and was designed to be a good fit for embedded devices.
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ple.
For the people who don't want to easily use USB sticks or digital
cameras or gsm dongles or really any modern hardware, I'm sure mdev is
fine. A static /dev is even fine for you probably.
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and udev are condemned to reinvent it, poorly".
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n PA allows for
lower power usage or how modern audio hardware is designed to use a
userspace sound server, etc.
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USED TO BE*, namely a simple devicei
> manager.
Maybe Greg understands how udev was and how it should be better than you
do, since he wrote it.
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On Mon, 2012-01-30 at 14:22 +0200, Samuli Suominen wrote:
> The default value of AdminIdentities changed to group wheel by
> upstream since version 0.103.
You never mention what the old value was.. useful to figure out if it
will cause problems.
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nfsroot (containing /etc, /var, /tmp, etc, etc), and then share /usr
among all the machines in your cluster or machine room or your many user
desktops.
With the current system, you either have to maintain in sync
the /bin, /sbin, /usr, etc separately, making life harder for everyone.
But cl
On Fri, 2012-01-06 at 08:44 +0800, Patrick Lauer wrote:
> On 01/06/12 05:26, Olivier Crête wrote:
> [snip]
> > The only thing I see them sacrificing is loose coupling, they provide
> > more functionality than any other init system, more correctness
> > (seriously, did
uld suggest not removing the symlink unless there is a technical
> reason why its presence is undesirable.
Doing aggressive migrations like that should really be avoided.. But we
know that the real long term solution is to have a /bin -> /usr/bin
symlink.
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On Thu, 2012-01-05 at 21:09 +, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Thu, 05 Jan 2012 16:02:09 -0500
> Olivier Crête wrote:
> > On Thu, 2012-01-05 at 20:08 +, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> > > On Thu, 5 Jan 2012 13:30:24 -0600
> > > William Hubbs wrote:
> >
e you to
> put /etc inside your initrd (since / can't be mounted without it).
> Obviously, you'd have to reboot if you made any changes to your config
> files, but that's OK since you can't safely restart daemons anyway.
Dude, the systemd people are not crazy. You shou
mount the rootfs, fire a getty and shell.
Obviously, you can do init=/bin/sh, that's doesn't help you much. I
think we're all speaking of a minimally useful system here.
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mount the rootfs, fire a getty and shell.
Obviously, you can do init=/bin/sh, that's doesn't help you much. I
think we're all speaking of a minimually useful system here.
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bedded systems running Linux. Probably more devices are sold running
Linux in a single day than the total number of servers in the world...
But well, this isn't a number's game. D-Bus is the system bus and
bluetooth is just one example of a system level component that uses it.
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On Wed, 2012-01-04 at 19:30 +0100, Marc Schiffbauer wrote:
> * Olivier Crête schrieb am 04.01.12 um 18:40 Uhr:
> > On Wed, 2012-01-04 at 15:54 +, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> > > On Wed, 4 Jan 2012 16:51:12 +0100
> > > Michał Górny wrote:
> > > > /bin/s
ust to
> mount other things on? Just to store /etc ?
>
> Or will /etc move to /usr too?
>
> /usr/etc somewhat horrifies me.
No no no, the idea is that once all binaries are in /usr, you can easily
share /usr between different systems and do updates in a sane way.. You
can also mount
be
> called "a horrible mess of tight coupling"...
You clearly have failed to realize that d-bus is a now the bus for
system messaging and is as much part of the system as syslog or bash.
Probably even more so, for example, in Fedora 17, you'll be able to boot
without sys
wiki/Features/UsrMove
Here is a list of packages on your system that will break if you start
udev without /usr mounted:
egrep 'usb-db|pci-db|FROM_DATABASE|/usr' /*/udev/rules.d/* |cut -f 1
-d : | sort -u | xargs qfile -e
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On Tue, 2012-01-03 at 22:47 +, Sven Vermeulen wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 01, 2012 at 03:21:47PM -0500, Olivier Crête wrote:
> > > I use a separate /usr with LVM on all my systems. My root partition uses
> > > RAID1. And I never had the need for an initramfs of any kind. Also,
On Tue, 2012-01-03 at 14:35 -0500, Rich Freeman wrote:
> 2012/1/3 Olivier Crête :
> > A couple years ago, Gentoo was the forward looking distribution, ready
> > to try radical changes that break existing assumption, like our init
> > scripts with dependencies or our early us
On Tue, 2012-01-03 at 13:02 -0600, William Hubbs wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 01:50:25PM -0500, Olivier Crête wrote:
> > I don't see what breakage would be caused by a big-bang update (move
> > everything in /sbin,/bin/,usr/sbin to usr/bin and add symlinks. I really
> &
gt;
> This is an interesting question. I haven't heard one way or the other
> what is happening with /lib/modules.
I doubt the kernel will move its install location, they're a very
conservative bunch. But I heard that kmod will start looking for modules
in /usr/lib/modules ...
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Hi,
On Mon, 2012-01-02 at 10:41 +0200, Eray Aslan wrote:
> On 2012-01-01 11:50 PM, Olivier Crête wrote:
> > systemd/dracut/etc handles /usr on its own filesystem just fine. What is
> > required is that /usr must be mounted before the pivot_root away from
> > the initramfs.
On Sun, 2012-01-01 at 20:23 +, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 15:21:24 -0500
> Olivier Crête wrote:
> > Honestly, so many things just work on MacOS and just need hours of
> > tweaking for us..
>
> The problem with "just works" is that when i
On Sun, 2012-01-01 at 14:51 -0600, Dale wrote:
> Olivier Crête wrote:
> > On Sun, 2012-01-01 at 01:33 -0600, Matthew Thode wrote:
> >> On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 02:12:22 -0500
> >> Olivier Crête wrote:
> >> All of my systems currently have a seperate /usr that is mo
really want to focus on initramfs, I'd appreciate some
> documentation help on it. Not only on how to create one, but also why it is
> necessary, how to manage initramfs'es, the concepts underlying, etc.
Short version: use dracut.
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On Sun, 2012-01-01 at 15:33 +0800, Patrick Lauer wrote:
> On 01/01/12 15:12, Olivier Crête wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Sat, 2011-12-31 at 19:59 -0600, William Hubbs wrote:
> >> I have been working with robbat2 on solutions to the separate /usr issue
> >> (That
e, it's the way Fedora is going to do it.
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On Sun, 2012-01-01 at 01:33 -0600, Matthew Thode wrote:
> On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 02:12:22 -0500
> Olivier Crête wrote:
> All of my systems currently have a seperate /usr that is mounted at
> boot. Unfortunately I do agree that this is not something that we can
> fight. This was bro
co, not much better than baselayout-1
and unmaintained upstream shows that even a relatively large
distribution like us can't maintain a competitive base system solution,
adopting the udev/kmod/systemd way will allow us to use all the work
that they are doing and instead concentrate on making a
, etc.
That said, we, the GNOME upstream, think that having a separate /usr is
a completely stupid idea.
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ll the
computer something the computer already knows is just plain lazy and
stupid.
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that no other distro ive seen uses, and this isnt
> > something we need to differentiate Gentoo.
>
> The same thing should be applied to /usr/libexec then shouldn't it?
> (just asking for more info here)
/usr/libexec is used by almost all major distros (except Debian), it has
be
a outdated idea anyway, and most of the
other distros will make that completely impossible very soon. Be bold.
Fedora is even going to make /lib, /bin and /sbin symlinks to /usr.
My 2 cents (as the guy who made the /lib->/lib64 link in the first
place).
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On Wed, 2011-06-29 at 16:46 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 11:14:22 -0400
> Olivier Crête wrote:
> > And you also underestimate the amount of momentum that Lennart has
> > managed to amass behind systemd. I expect that much sooner than you
> > think
On Wed, 2011-06-29 at 11:08 +0200, Patrick Lauer wrote:
> On 06/29/11 03:07, Olivier Crête wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Tue, 2011-06-28 at 17:10 -0500, William Hubbs wrote:
> >> The background is that /etc/init.d/functions.sh is a link to
> >> /lib/r
> greatly appreciated.
As long as we have Gentoo-style init scripts in the tree, we will need
these functions to be available. So yes, they should probably be in a
separate package from openrc itself to ease the transition to the bright
systemd future.
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able super early in the
boot process, before even / has been fscked and re-mounted. That means
you can do stuff like starting udevd in parallel with fsck of / which
means faster boot. This is one of the things required to get 1 second
boot.
See http://lwn.net/Articles/436012/
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don't
think we should facilitate it in any way.
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tay the execution of gst-plugins-v4l until 2.6.38 is stable? In
our stable 2.6.36 release, some drivers have not yet been ported to
v4l2.
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ds support for not being completely broken"
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ady.
I didn't know we still allowed that.. I guess the CVS server should just
reject unsigned Manifests..
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he/she can simply use https://. If he/she
> is not, there is no real reason to enforce slower (and not always
> supported) SSL.
Maybe it's not to protect the user, but to protect the Gentoo
infrastructure.. And really, SSL has been supported by every browser for
the last 15 years. A
On Mon, 2010-08-23 at 19:09 +0100, Mike Auty wrote:
> On 23/08/10 18:26, Olivier Crête wrote:
> >
> > Other distributions are going one step further and are going for
> > shell-free boot. We should follow that lead.
> >
>
> Why? Presumably they're doing it
; their init scripts are not exactly compatible with what we do).
Other distributions are going one step further and are going for
shell-free boot. We should follow that lead.
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stemD, PolicyKit, NetworkManager, etc. Anyone with half a
brain already dropped our stuff. And the lack of use of modern tools is
the reason I don't use Gentoo on my work computer anymore.
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On Sun, 2010-06-27 at 18:54 +0300, Markos Chandras wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 11:47:49AM -0400, Olivier Crête wrote:
> > On Sun, 2010-06-27 at 18:04 +0300, Markos Chandras wrote:
> > > Moreover, slow arches introduce another problem as well. If a package is
> > &g
stable keyword on all dependencies too so
as to not drop break the tree for them.
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On Fri, 2010-06-25 at 13:00 +0400, Peter Volkov wrote:
> В Птн, 25/06/2010 в 14:19 +0530, Arun Raghavan пишет:
> > On 25 June 2010 14:15, Peter Volkov wrote:
> > > В Чтв, 24/06/2010 в 16:43 -0400, Olivier Crête пишет:
> > [...]
> > >> Or you could review the
ntoo-x86.
> >
>
> We could abuse git-note
Or you could review the changes before pushing (since in git these
operations are separate). And live with the consequences of your
mistakes!
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e lots
of other files you dont absolutely need too. Maybe you should start
filing bugs against every package that install these tiny files you
don't need! All those wasted inodes!
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>
> Bindings is a common enough term in use flag descriptions, etc, that users
> should at least have an idea what it means. Introspection? Not so much.
It's not the bindings... It's introspection data that describes the API.
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always for
everyone. Due to the direction in which GNOME is heading, it will be
required by the core desktop anyway.
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table.
> > Just prevent people from making python invoke 3.x and everything will
> > be fine.
>
> Isn't ~arch supposed to be for testing? Isn't that the point of having
> ~arch?
~arch is for testing ebuilds, not the upstream package
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always with econf seems slightly inappropriate, given the
> above.
> Don't think this is an item for fast-tracked EAPI-3.
I'm not a big fan either of this one either, when stuff is patched, you
may not want that disabled.
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Hello,
mpeg4ip is dead upstream and has various bugs [1] (some we patch, some
we don't).
I'll package.mask/remove it if no one wants to take it over (and
effectively become upstream).
[1] http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=190959
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one complains, I will make the changes in a couple days.
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by multilib
> eclass)
> -comment out the inherit line
> -comment out DEPEND and RDEPEND
> -remove the || die from econf
> -comment out the complete src_compile
It may also be a good time to think about updating skel.eclass to use
EAPI=2
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gt; And bits of code of that ilk.
Maybe we could use the dev wiki for that kind of stuff?
Having a wiki.gentoo.org would be even better...
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On Tue, 2008-12-09 at 00:29 +, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 19:25:44 -0500
> Olivier Crête <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > The testing should be two phased, the first for regression (against
> > existing ebuilds), and once thats stable, then we can t
On Tue, 2008-12-09 at 00:11 +, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 19:09:50 -0500
> Olivier Crête <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I'd like to go further and ask that for the next EAPI change, we only
> > allow ebuilds using it into the tree once a version
stable user, I also find this very
frustrating.
I'd like to go further and ask that for the next EAPI change, we only
allow ebuilds using it into the tree once a version of portage that
supports it has gone stable. And then, not make any ebuild with the new
EAPI stable for 60 mo
Seriously. Who needs the European Biology Open Software Suite
> on a *desktop* oriented system?
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Hi,
My Inspiron has died so I can no longer test app-laptop/i8kutils, so I
can't really maintain it anymore. If any dev wants to take it, its all
yours. If there is a user who want to maintain it, I can proxy.
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everyone and just install everything in /usr like everyone else does, if
upstream wanted it to be parallel installable, they would have made it
that way (like gnome 1.x vs gnome 2.x).
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On Mon, 2008-08-18 at 16:18 +0100, Tony "Chainsaw" Vroon wrote:
> sys-auth/thinkfinger
I have a thinkpad with the right hardware, so I can take this one, did
you already pimp out your other thinkpad packages?
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Desc
op users would want, since it lets
> them see all those pretty graphics. Comments? Concerns?
imlib is unmaintained/deprecated. So I don't think it makes sense to
push it by default to users using GNOME/KDE at least (because they have
better image loading libraries).
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al/libc". C++ packages will need a stdc++ depend.
Adding a dep to libc almost everywhere seems extremely wrong to me. I
though we had decided many times that it was a bad idea.
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xample)?
>
> Nothing per se, but I have yet to see any FOSS application dlopen() gtk+
> or libpng.
FOSS is the keyword here... the flash plugin dlopens a bunch of stuff
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;t see the problem with AMD64, why it would be more wrong
than ia32 or x86 (based on Intel's product numbers!). AMD64 was invented
by AMD and they get to pick the name for it. The keyword amd64 in Gentoo
when Intel was still dismissing AMD64...
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lugins/gaim-slashexec
x11-plugins/gaim-xfire
x11-plugins/gaimosd
x11-plugins/ignorance
x11-themes/gaim-smileys
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# Olivier Crete <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (20 Nov 2007)
# There is now a better version include in gnome-base/gnome-keyring
sys-auth/pam_keyring
It will be gone in one month.
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Two days ago, I removed the beta versions of gaim 2.x, gaim-libnotify
depended on it. It has never been So it has been removed from the tree.
It is now called x11-plugins/pidgin-libnotify.
The rest of gaim will soon follow
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me versions that
depend on virtual/editor actually hardcode nano as the default.
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g virtual/editor.
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this really required? It pushes the real content even farther down
the window. Or if you really want to keep it for new users, please allow
us to disable that.
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Olivier Crête
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On Sat, 2007-13-01 at 15:39 -0500, Olivier Crête wrote:
> On Tue, 2007-09-01 at 09:35 +0100, Sune Kloppenborg Jeppesen wrote:
> > net-im/centericq is without an ebuild maintainer and has an open security
> > bug
> > #160793
> >
> > https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_
d or just exclude it with
> an ewarn only?
With bindist, you should just disable any non-distributable feature and
print a ewarn.. Dieing is not nice since its used to build the stages,
etc.
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Olivier Crête
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just install xcb alongside regular Xlib ? If we can't, I would
favor making xcb the default. Its significantly better than the old
Xlib.
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Olivier Crête
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On Wed, 2007-15-08 at 15:02 +0100, Roy Marples wrote:
> On Wed, 2007-08-15 at 10:09 -0400, Olivier Crête wrote:
> > I believe services that don't bind to a specific address should probably
> > only depend on net.lo, not net.
>
> Well, they can actually depend on a speci
modify the script to depend on that interface) and those
that use the network, but don't really need it (like sshd, etc). That
said, I now use networkmanager (to be able to easily select wifi
networks), I don't know how integrated into the whole baselayout-2.
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Olivier Crête
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r dependencies are enabled by default
and have been for a while... The other should really stay off by
default. I don't think adding it them to the profiles is wise..
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Olivier Crête
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On Fri, 2007-20-07 at 00:57 +0100, Olivier Crête wrote:
> On Thu, 2007-19-07 at 15:22 -0700, Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> > On Thu, 2007-07-19 at 16:02 -0600, Jim Ramsay wrote:
> > > I'm all for doing it now in the profile, but it's not my package.
> > > Perhaps
it.. Except for silc and
zephyr (which may or may not work very well) and should probably stay
off.
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Olivier Crête
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